A podcast by Professor Michael Levin exploring the frontiers of biology, cognition, and emergence. Engage in conversations about morphogenesis, bioelectricity, and synthetic life — and uncover how intelligence and agency emerge from the most fundamental levels of nature.
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A podcast to discover what the hack security means for biology. Our host interviews some of the world's mad scientists and rad hackers across deceivingly unrelated disciplines to uncover what the future holds and how we can design against crime.
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Join host Lindsey Smith and other Osmosis team members for a global conversation about improving health and healthcare with prominent figures in education and healthcare innovation such as Chelsea Clinton, Mark Cuban, Dr. Ashish Jha, Dr. Eric Topol, Dr. Vivian Lee and Sal Khan, as well as senior leaders at organizations such as the CDC, National Institutes of Health, Johns Hopkins University, WHO, Harvard University, NYU Langone and many others.
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Lessons From the Frontlines of Humanitarian Crises: Dr. Joanne Liu, Former International President of Médecins Sans Frontières and Author of Ebola, Bombs and Migrants
32:48
32:48
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32:48“Pandemics are a political choice. We will not be able to prevent every disease outbreak or epidemic but we can prevent an epidemic from becoming a pandemic,” says Dr. Joanne Liu, the former International President of Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders and a professor in the School of Population and Global Health at McGill University.…
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Rare Disease Parents Create a New Model for Drug Development: Nicole Johnson, Co-Founder and Executive Director of FOXG1 Research Foundation
28:56
28:56
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28:56“As parents dedicated to getting a treatment for our children in their lifetimes, we have turned the rare disease drug development landscape upside down and created a new model,” says Nicole Johnson, co-founder and executive director of the FOXG1 Research Foundation. That’s not an exaggeration, as the foundation is on track to make history as it be…
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Against Mind-blindness: Recognizing and Communicating with Agential Materials and Beyond - Michael Levin
1:07:08
1:07:08
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1:07:08This is a ~1 hour 7 minute talk I gave at the SEMF Interdisciplinary School (July 2025, https://semf.org.es/school2025/#speakers-container) on agency ways to think about expanding our ability to detect and communicate with unconventional minds. The same talk but with a lengthy Q&A will be up on the SEMF website. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website You…
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Beyond Complexity & Emergence: Taming Multiscale Competency in Agential Materials
54:05
54:05
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54:05This is a ~54 minute talk given at a workshop on complexity. Many of the examples are the same ones I often talk about but this talk is focused on explaining how biology deals with complexity, and ways to think about complex patterns of form and behavior beyond the conventional approach of emergence. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple P…
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A Colorful and Comprehensive Option for Visual Learners: Jennifer Zahourek, RN, Founder and CEO of RekMed
33:44
33:44
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33:44Today on Raise the Line, we bring you the unlikely and inspiring story of a woman who was afraid of blood as a child but became an accomplished nurse; who struggled with learning disabilities but became an effective educator; and who, despite lacking business experience or knowledge of graphics, built a successful company that produces visually ric…
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This is a ~18 min talk plus ~10 min Q&A on a top-down approach to bioengineering and robotics that I gave at the Biohybrid Robotics Symposium in Switzerland in July 2025 (https://biohybrid-robotics.com/). CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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How Emotional Skills Can Elevate Medical Practice and Patient Care: Professor Alicja Galazka, University of Silesia
28:29
28:29
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28:29“Very often, doctors try to suppress what they feel or don't even have the vocabulary to describe their emotions,” says Professor Alicja Galazka of the University of Silesia, an observation based on decades of work with physicians to enhance their emotional intelligence and resilience. Galazka, a psychotherapist, psychologist, lecturer and coach, b…
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This is a ~55 minute conversation with Michael Johnson (https://t.co/YxAOZif0V2) covering topics of spectrum of consciousness down to the cell (and below) level, implicit memory and cellular pixels of experience, Platonic space, symmetry breaking, and intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation in systems. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podc…
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Unconventional Selves - a Diverse Intelligence Perspective on Consciousness by Michael Levin
1:11:51
1:11:51
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1:11:51"Unconventional selves in novel spaces, scales, and embodiments - a diverse intelligence perspective on a continuum of cognition and consciousness" is a ~1 hour 12 min talk I gave at a conference on consciousness (https://www.hardproblem.it/), as it relates to our work on diverse intelligence and unconventional cognition. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast W…
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Nothing in Biology Makes Sense without Teleology
1:18:54
1:18:54
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1:18:54This is a deliberately provocative talk (~1 hour 20 minutes) I gave on teleology (a pretty taboo subject in a lot of the life sciences) delivered at Caltech. I try to go step by step and show the philosophical background of how I think about goal-directedness in physically embodied agents (cells and tissues etc.) and then the data - classic example…
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This is a ~25 minute discussion with Murray Shanahan (https://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~mpsha/) on topics following up on his talk in our Center (https://youtu.be/ZlKc3ebLgEI?si=Tmq5gOwVDi4t-pip). CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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Overcoming Misconceptions About Geriatrics: Dr. Julia Hiner, Geriatric Medicine Fellowship Program Director at McGovern Medical School
23:53
23:53
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23:53"Older adults have this special clarity about who they are and what they want, which is incredibly inspiring," says Dr. Julia Hiner, explaining, in part, why she loves her work as a geriatrician in Houston, Texas. She also enjoys the challenge of the medical complexity these patients present and the opportunity it creates to see the patient as a wh…
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Discussion between Adam Safron, Max Shen, and Michael Levin
59:14
59:14
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59:14This is a ~1 hour discussion with Adam Safron (https://www.adamsafron.com/) and Max Shen (https://www.maxkshen.com/home), and Michael Levinabout diverse intelligence and its relevance for pain. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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This is a ~1 hour discussion with mathematician David Spivak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spivak) about issues related to goal-directedness and some puzzles around mathematical vs. physical constants (see https://thoughtforms.life/why-the-tight-clustering-of-mathematical-constants/ for more details on that question). CONNECT WITH ME: Podcas…
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Endogenous Bioelectrical Networks: An Interface to Somatic Intelligence
51:00
51:00
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51:00This is a ~55 min talk by Michael Levin "Endogenous Bioelectrical Networks: an interface to somatic intelligence for regenerative medicine", going over the state of the art in developmental bioelectricity in the context of collaborating with the cellular collective intelligence for applications in birth defects, regeneration, and cancer. It has som…
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This is a new ~1 hour talk by me on the concept of diverse intelligence, and morphogenesis as a model system with which to practice identifying and communicating with unconventional minds. This is a bit different than previous ones because I explicitly go over examples of how some of our various data on bioelectrics addresses each of several key pr…
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The Importance of Seeing Rare Disease Patients Holistically: Eric & Kristi Levine, Parents of a Child with CACNA1A
28:24
28:24
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28:24"It was pretty apparent to me that something was going on with him," says Kristi Levine, describing the realization that, based on her experience as a Montessori teacher, her infant son, Trey, was missing developmental milestones. Unfortunately, Kristi’s hunch turned out to be correct and Trey was later diagnosed with a rare genetic mutation called…
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Chemical AI: An Unconventional Strategy for Mimicking Biological Intelligence - Pier Luigi Gentili
58:25
58:25
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58:25This is a ~1 hour total presentation by Pier Luigi Gentili (https://www.pierluigigentili.com/) and brainstorming session about chemical intelligence and its relationship to the broader field of diverse intelligence. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin Lab…
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Bioelectric Networks as the Interface to Somatic Intelligence: Toward a New Regenerative Medicine
50:53
50:53
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50:53This is a ~50 minute talk by me (given at IIT Mandi yesterday) on bioelectricity from the perspective of both, a path to regenerative medicine of birth defects, injury repair, and cancer, and a model system for learning to communicate with unconventional collective intelligences. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitt…
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Conversation with Benjamin Lyons, Mark Blumberg, and Karen Adolph: Motor Development and Cognition
36:00
36:00
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36:00This is a ~30 minute conversation with Benjamin Lyons (https://benjaminflyons.com/), Mark Blumberg (https://blumberg.lab.uiowa.edu), and Karen Adolph (https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/karen-adolph.html) on the field of motor development and behavior in humans and other animals, and the ties between that field and the morphogenetic intelligence of embryog…
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How Providers Can Join the Battle Against Misinformation: Dr. Raven Baxter, Director of Science Communication at the Cohen Center for Recovery from Complex Chronic Illness
28:33
28:33
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28:33We have a special guest on today's episode whose voice will be familiar to regular listeners. Last year at this time, Dr. Raven Baxter occupied the Raise the Line host chair for a special ten-part series we produced in collaboration with the Cohen Center for Recovery from Complex Chronic Illness (CoRe) at Mount Sinai in New York City, where she ser…
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Advocating for Black Nurses In An Anti-DEI Environment: Dr. Sheldon Fields, President of the National Black Nurses Association
24:23
24:23
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24:23On this episode of “Raise the Line” we welcome Dr. Sheldon Fields, a trailblazer in the nursing field and the president of the National Black Nurses Association. In a candid conversation, Dr. Fields shares his inspiring journey from the bedside to becoming a prominent figure in nursing, HIV/AIDS prevention and academia and also shares the challenge…
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Against Mind-Blindness: Recognizing and Communicating With Diverse Intelligences
35:49
35:49
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35:49This is a ~35 minute talk about diverse intelligence and our efforts to establish formalisms and methods for communicating with unconventional biological intelligences. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Expanding Mind Blindness (02:50) Recognizing Diverse Minds (05:00) Embodied Agent Origins (08:40) Anatomical Intelligence Spaces (12:40) Bioelectricity: Body's Glu…
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Scaling Intelligence in Biology, Artificial Life, and Beyond
24:04
24:04
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24:04This is a ~20 minute very rapid talk reviewing ideas around the scaling of intelligence in unconventional substrates. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Intro & Unconventional Concepts (00:40) Challenging Traditional Worldviews (01:40) Life as Continua (03:00) Electromagnetic Spectrum Analogy (04:30) Spectrum of Mind Applications (05:50) Single Cell to Mind (07:10)…
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Culture as an Additional Scale of Biological Organisation with Ivan Kroupin and Tian Chen Zeng
56:54
56:54
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56:54This is a short summary talk by Ivan Kroupin (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XjxueRYAAAAJ&hl=en) and Tian Chen Zeng (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tian-Chen-Zeng) and then a discussion of issues around biological and cultural multi-scale intelligence. Their longer talk is here: https://youtu.be/dYuNJSilRMo?si=gVvMV_N4pjloe0iX CONN…
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Equipping Today’s Medical Students to Manage Uncertainty: Professor Katarzyna Taran, Medical University of Łódź
31:57
31:57
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31:57We’re honored to continue our global tour of medical education today with Professor Katarzyna Taran, MD, PhD, a pioneering interdisciplinary researcher of tumor cell biology, an award winning educator noted for her focus on student engagement, and -- in a first for a Raise the Line guest -- a shooting sports certified coach and referee. As Professo…
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This is a ~30 minute talk to an Ethics class (undergraduates) about aspects of our work that have implications for ethics. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Intelligence All The Way Down (06:30) Scaling Up Cognition (13:40) Communicating With Cellular Intelligence (20:00) Freedom of Embodiment (27:40) Ethics of Future Beings CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTub…
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Conversation with Frank Putnam and Alexey Tolchinsky
56:30
56:30
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56:30This is a ~1 hour conversation with Frank Putnam (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=KLGgJg4AAAAJ&hl=en) and Alexey Tolchinsky (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tiBKmrsAAAAJ&hl=en) about dissociative disorders, clinical psychology, and their applications to the cell biology of regenerative medicine and cancer. CONNECT WITH ME: Podca…
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Using Technology to Build a Global Community of Medical Students: Alfred Collins, Community Specialist at Osmosis from Elsevier
39:49
39:49
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39:49We like to think of Osmosis from Elsevier as a global community of millions of learners, connected by a desire to serve humanity and an inclination to use a diverse mix of educational resources to help them become excellent healthcare practitioners. On today’s episode of Raise the Line, we’re going to learn how Osmosis has created an opportunity fo…
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This is a ~50 minute conversation with Michael Johnson (https://t.co/YxAOZif0V2) on vasocomputation, stress as cognitive glue, and more generally computation and cognition in unconventional substrates. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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How Does It Know? Bioelectricity as Memory Medium, Cognitive Glue, & Path to Regenerative Medicine
1:00:28
1:00:28
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1:00:28This is a ~1 hour talk on the field of developmental bioelectricity from a perspective of cognitive science and the homology between mechanisms of self-assembly of somatic and brain-based intelligence. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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Uncovering Electrodynamic Design Principles of Living Cells
55:56
55:56
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55:56This is a ~1 hour talk by Jack Tuszynski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Tuszy%C5%84ski, https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/jackt) on electrical and electromagnetic properties of microtubules. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin LabBy Michael Levin
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Aligning Education Technology With How Students Live and Learn: David Game, SVP of Product Management, Global Medical Education at Elsevier
28:37
28:37
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28:37David Game remembers the days when the use of digital technology in education publishing amounted to putting a dictionary on a compact disc. Now, as the senior vice president of Product Management, Global Medical Education at Elsevier, he oversees a suite of learning materials that use artificial intelligence, virtual reality and 3-D modeling. “We’…
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Discussion with Alexey Tolchinsky and Thomas Pollak
57:15
57:15
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57:15This is a ~1 hour conversation with Alexey Tolchinsky (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexey-Tolchinsky), a clinical psychologist and Adjunct Professor at The George Washington University, Center for Professional Psychology, and Thomas Pollak (https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6171-0810), a neuropsychiatrist and researcher working at the Institute …
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This is a ~1 hour discussion with philosopher of science Lauren Ross (https://sites.socsci.uci.edu/~rossl/), on the topic of explanation and causation - what does it mean to look for explanations in science, what counts as a good explanation, and how do you know you've got one.Lauren's book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/explanation-in-bi…
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Helping All Medical Providers Understand Genomic Testing: Dr. Ethylin Wang Jabs, Mayo Clinic and Dr. Antonie Kline, Harvey Institute for Human Genetics
16:06
16:06
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16:06An interesting new study from the Geisinger health system in Pennsylvania examining if genomic screening in a large population increases the identification of disease risk prompted Raise the Line to re-release a previous episode about a textbook designed to help all medical providers understand the clinical applications of genomic testing. Genomics…
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Interview with Azra Raza on a New Theory and Practice of Cancer
59:12
59:12
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59:12This is a ~1 hour conversation of Aastha Jain Simes (https://www.livelongerworld.com/, https://www.linkedin.com/in/aasthajs) and Azra Raza on her unique and passionate journey in oncology and her ideas for cancer therapy. Azra is an amazing person, clinician, and scientist; see more of her work at:Columbia web page: https://www.cancer.columbia.edu/…
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Life, Mind, and Computing: A Diverse Intelligence Perspective
33:08
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33:08This is a very fast (~33min) flyover of some ideas relevant to the relationship between biology, computation, cognition, consciousness, and related subjects. This was given at the amazing Progress and Visions in Consciousness Science series (https://amcs-community.org/events/progress-visions-series/) as the prologue to a discussion. CHAPTERS: (00:0…
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Cellular Automata and Models of Health and Disease
35:40
35:40
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35:40This is a ~35 minute discussion with Willem Nielsen (https://community.wolfram.com/web/wrn2001, https://medium.com/@wnielsen) from the Wolfram Institute about their cellular automata models of disease and our approach to this problem. Papers to which I referred:https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00018-023-04790-zhttps://www.mdpi.com/1099-43…
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Conversation of Michael Levin with Iain McGilchrist
1:11:57
1:11:57
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1:11:57This is an ~1 hour 10 minute conversation with Iain McGilchrist (https://channelmcgilchrist.com/home/), on the topic of my recent paper on the Platonic Space (https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/5g2xj_v3) - forms ingressing into the physical world in biology, causation, evolution, and mind. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spot…
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Bioelectric Networks: An Interface to Engineering with the Agential Material of Life
1:02:32
1:02:32
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1:02:32This is a ~1 hour talk (given at the Departmental Seminar series at the Virginia Tech-Wake Forest School of Biomedical Engineering and Sciences) on the use of a cognitive approach to bioengineering and regenerative medicine, in which morphogenesis is the behavior (in anatomical space) of a collective intelligence of cellular swarms. I describe our …
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Fighting the Deceiving Label of ‘Rare’: Zainab Alani, Fourth Year Student at University of Glasgow School of Medicine and Rare Conditions Advocate
30:01
30:01
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30:01To mark International Rare Disease Day, we're going to introduce you to a remarkable young woman, Zainab Alani, who is not letting her challenging rare condition stand in the way of her dream of becoming a physician. After noticing Zainab’s struggles with muscle weakness and fatigue at age 15, her mother – a physician – took her to doctors advocati…
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Aastha Jain Simes and I Interview Pamela Lyon
1:19:45
1:19:45
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1:19:45This a ~1 hour 20 minute conversation between Aastha Jain Simes (https://www.livelongerworld.com/), Pamela Lyon (https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=1oY1J5kAAAAJ&hl=en), and I. Pamela is a key figure in the development of a biogenic approach to mind, and we talked about her journey to understanding cognition. A few of her papers:https://ae…
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Discussion with Mayli Mertens on Molecular Placebos and Bioelectricity
29:54
29:54
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29:54This is a ~30 minute conversation with Mayli Mertens (Marie Curie Postdoctoral fellow at University of Antwerp, https://philpeople.org/profiles/mayli-mertens) and I on the topic of molecular placebos, bioelectricity, and self-fulfilling prophecies in medicine (the latter being the title of her recent paper: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007…
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Biological and Technological Information Processing: Commonalities, Differences and Implications
1:00:54
1:00:54
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1:00:54This is a ~1 hr talk on what is similar and what is different between biological and (current) technological information-processing systems, and the implications for biomedicine, AI, and ethics. A version of this talk with Q&A at the TPC consortium at Argonne National Lab is at https://tpc.dev/tpc-seminar-series/ CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website Yo…
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What Clinicians Can Learn About Managing Uncertainty: Dr. Jenny Moffett of RCSI University of Medicine and Health Sciences, Dublin
25:23
25:23
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25:23Having the ability to manage uncertainty is helpful in all professions, but perhaps especially so in medicine where uncertainty abounds and the stakes for managing it are high. Despite that, medical students receive little training in this area, something which our guest today, Dr. Jenny Moffett of RCSI University of Medicine and Health Sciences in…
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Conversation 2 Between Gunnar Babcock, Daniel McShea, Mark Solms, and Michael Levin
59:13
59:13
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59:13This is a ~1 hour conversation on topics of consciousness, affect, evolution, and philosophy between Gunnar Babcock (https://cals.cornell.edu/gunnar-babcock), Daniel McShea (https://scholars.duke.edu/person/dmcshea), Mark Solms (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=vD4p8rQAAAAJ&hl=en), and I. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podc…
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The Role of Clinicians in Addressing Climate Change: Dr. Catharina Giudice, Climate and Human Health Fellow, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
31:10
31:10
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31:10The Role of Clinicians in Addressing Climate Change: Dr. Catharina Giudice, Climate and Human Health Fellow, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health “The healthcare system is in this interesting intersection when it comes to its roles and responsibilities as it pertains to climate change,” says our Raise the Line guest Dr. Catharina Giudice, a re…
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Conversation with Richard Watson and Leo Caves
1:29:36
1:29:36
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1:29:36This is a ~1.5 hour conversation with Richard Watson (https://www.richardawatson.com/) and Leo Caves (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leo-Caves, https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=Oov_zsoAAAAJ&hl=en) about issues of resonance, unconventional cognition, observers, process philosophy, etc. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple …
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A Conversation with Mark Solms on Life and Mind
1:54:56
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1:54:56This is a ~2-hour Q&A with Mark Solms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Solms) at the "Public conversation about their work and its implications for psychoanalysis" series of the Annual meeting of the American Psychoanalytic Association. CONNECT WITH ME: Podcast Website YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Blog The Levin Lab…
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