Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher. Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
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Awake In Relationship explores the art of intimacy, connection and community in the digital age. Build your social fitness habit with inspirational long form interviews featuring thought leaders on the frontiers of mindfulness, conscious relationships, community building, deep work and social enterprise. Fresh episodes drop twice a month on all major platforms.
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Join Purpose Coach Kevin Miller as he conducts deep discussions on personal evolution from his own, curious journey toward greater purpose and deeper fulfillment. Kevin researches and curates the best teachers and guides you may never find, as they are busy teaching in classes, counseling in therapy rooms, researching in labs, and coaching in offices. Go from knowledge to integration at kevinmiller.co *Over 70 million downloads, 300 expert guests, 1,500 episodes...and the journey continues o ...
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This is not a podcast for the mainstream. This is for the silenced, the cast out, and those whose stories never made the headlines. A Groundbreaking Trauma Justice Podcast from a Genocide Survivor and Somatic Therapist. Deeply embodied, politically urgent, and spiritually grounded space led by a therapist who survived war and genocide herself. Ana Mael is not just talking about trauma—she has lived it, survived it, and now guides others through it with radical clarity and compassion. This po ...
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Journey Out of the Bottle – A Renaissance Movement to Wake Up, Wise Up & Rise Up to the Fuckery of Alcohol! Curated with topics that span fierce activism and awareness to elevated nurturing and healing, this podcast is a true fusion of spiritual awakening, ascension, activism, feminism, and humanism—flipping the world of alcohol on its head and exposing the myths, stigmas, and hidden truths behind drinking. Once I gave up alcohol, my awakening took off at warp speed—like snapping out of a fe ...
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How To Transition Through The Most Difficult Endings Of Your Life
52:32
52:32
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52:32I’m tempted to start by saying, “If you’ve ever gone through a significant transition…” but I’m not going to. I bet everyone listening has had something end that they didn’t choose, and chances are 99.9% that you didn’t come through unscathed. In this episode I’m going to share a message that has been a guiding light to me in recent, difficult time…
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Rich and Tim chat with Dr. Lorna Stabler about what children think makes a great social worker, and explore the vital role of sibling and kinship carers
1:05:46
1:05:46
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1:05:46Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Ri…
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Harnessing The Past, The Present, & What Is Going Right In Our World w/ Positive Psychologist Niyc Pidgeon
1:04:37
1:04:37
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1:04:37Therapy gives much focus to our past, where modern day success coaching is focused primarily on the future. I advocated coaching and had no interest in the past. That is, until I realized I wanted to understand why I kept repeating the same patterns. Today I feel both are needed in order to better understand ourselves. In the field of positive psyc…
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Changing Your Mind Isn’t Betrayal: It’s Your Freedom And Your Rights
10:03
10:03
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10:03When You’ve Been Trained to Survive, Not to Think” By a War Trauma Therapist & Founder of Somatic Trauma Recovery Center Core Teaching: Ana Mael delivers a profound and urgent call to reclaim critical thinking as a somatic, embodied skill, especially in a time of rising authoritarianism, digital manipulation, and inherited cultural obedience. Her c…
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Why Self-Care INDUSTRY Is Now a THREAT to Democracy and Your Freedom. Breathe. Meditate. Obey.
11:32
11:32
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11:32Ana Mael’s piece is a fierce, urgent call to consciousness, exposing how the wellness industry, spiritual bypassing, and self-care culture are being co-opted to depoliticize, numb, and pacify people in the face of rising authoritarianism, fascism, and societal collapse. Self-care without critical thinking is not healing — it’s complicity. Key Takea…
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Will A Better World Really Benefit Us & If Not - What Actually Will w/ Soren Gordhamer
1:22:18
1:22:18
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1:22:18Welcome. I'm Kevin Miller and this is a podcast for your personal evolution. In this episode Will A Better World Really Benefit Us & If Not - What Actually Will I’ve struggled with technology and conveniences and efficiency for a long time. All our human advancements with tech and now AI and such are promoted as if they will finally make everything…
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RBDSMT: A Conversation about Conscious Relating with Seth Gregg
1:22:30
1:22:30
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1:22:30Episode Overview In this candid and educational episode, Melissa LeAira and Seth demonstrate a live RBDSMT conversation - a powerful communication framework for creating conscious, transparent connections. They walk through each element of this relationship tool in real-time, showing how honest dialogue about relationship styles, boundaries, desire…
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Critical Thinking in the Age of Tyranny: A Survival Skill You Must Have Now: War, Fascism, AI
1:00:14
1:00:14
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1:00:14Stop Obeying. Start Thinking. At a time when professors are being silenced, protests are criminalized, and AI-generated propaganda floods our feeds, Ana gives us the ultimate counterculture message: “If you don’t practice critical thinking, someone else will do your thinking for you. And if you don’t anchor your moral compass, the algorithm will re…
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The Strategy That Outperforms Talent Or Hard Work w/ Psychologist Ron Friedman
57:33
57:33
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57:33The two primary ingredients we think of in regards to success is talent and hard work. We tend to believe greatness comes from having above average talent and putting in your 10,000 hours. Yet if we audit everyone who has achieved relative success, we find many, maybe even most, do not have either of these. So what did they do? They just figured ou…
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BONUS: Chapter 1 of Messy Social Work read by Rich Devine
28:11
28:11
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28:11Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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Try Replacing All Your “Goals” With “Experiments” To Make Real Progress w/ Anne-Laure Le Cunff
1:09:37
1:09:37
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1:09:37We as humans tend to look at most everything with a linear perspective. Like every day and our lives are a straight trajectory that is either getting better or worse, depending on the day. We look at our desires as goals and work towards them sequentially, expecting to get closer every day on this so-called, straight line. My guest in this episode …
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What Type Of Work Truly Inspires You w/ Jonathan Fields
1:15:03
1:15:03
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1:15:03This is not about working at your passions, or as my Dad, Dan Miller was famous for, finding the work you love. This is more about the tasks and activities you are engaging with in whatever work you are doing. Think about it like a football team. They are all playing football but they aren’t all playing the same position. So in the daily work you d…
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Rich and Tim: 'headlines with Mithran' & Cordie Gwilym (Social Worker/Coach) on adoption, overcoming loss and coaching
1:07:26
1:07:26
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1:07:26Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/ Mithran's CC articles: A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/ An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025…
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No Ease, Just Survival: Hard Truth About PTSD by War Trauma Therapist
33:07
33:07
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33:07Distilled Lesson: Ease is a privilege. Hypervigilance is the default of the trauma body. If peace feels impossible—it’s not your fault. Your body is still trying to keep you alive. Ana is dismantling the myth that everyday tasks should feel simple or light once you're “on a healing journey.” She’s teaching that for those living with PTSD, “ease” is…
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Warrior Women: The Raw Truth About Spiritual Transformation
1:25:00
1:25:00
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1:25:00Episode Overview: In this intimate and unfiltered episode, Melissa LeAira returns to the mic with special guest Anastacia Dadashpour to explore the sacred unraveling that often follows spiritual growth, loss, and conscious transformation. Together, they reflect on the messiness of becoming—when the tools stop working, the energy fades, and surrende…
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Easy Like Sunday Morning - No Hangover !!
10:57
10:57
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10:57Episode Overview: In this authentic and uplifting Sunday morning episode, recorded live from an outdoor nature studio, the host shares the profound joy and clarity that comes from living hangover-free. With spontaneous wildlife appearances (including frolicking bunnies!), this raw and honest conversation explores the stark contrast between life wit…
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Episode Overview: In this deeply vulnerable and raw episode, Melissa LeAira opens up about experiencing what she calls a "3D hangover" - the unexpected crash that can follow periods of spiritual awakening and transformation. She shares her journey through regression, self-criticism, and the challenging process of honoring her authentic design while…
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Returning to Winter Park: A Journey of Sobriety and Self-Discovery Two years later, everything has changed. After selling my condo in Winter Park to fund my sabbatical and journey of self-discovery, I'm finally back to the place that holds so many memories—the good, the painful, and everything in between. This isn't just a visit; it's a full-circle…
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Intuitive Awareness - Getting to Know Myself
11:26
11:26
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11:26Episode Overview In this thought-provoking episode, Melissa LeAira explores the transformative power of trusting one's intuition, breaking free from fear-based decision-making, and embracing authenticity. She introduces the practice of Latihan—a movement-based meditation that quiets the mind, liberates the body, and deepens self-awareness. Melissa …
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Waking Up From the Fever Dream Alcohol Kept Me In
14:50
14:50
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14:50Episode Overview: In this raw and unapologetic episode, Melissa LeAira shatters the comfortable lies we've been told about alcohol. Drawing from her own journey, she exposes how our "harmless social drinking" is actually a slow-drip poison that robs us of our potential, dulls our spiritual connection, and keeps us trapped in a cycle of mediocrity t…
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Understanding What The Extraordinary Relational Tool Of Validation Is & Is Not w/ Caroline Fleck
1:17:39
1:17:39
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1:17:39As you may have heard on previous episodes here, I’ve grown a distaste for the concept of validation. It seems everyone wants to talk about their feelings and perspectives and then claim their right to be validated, even if their feelings and perspectives are incredibly misguided and harming themselves and others. I began putting my focus on self-v…
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PTSD Living: That Cruel Voice In Your Head. Leading Therapist on War Trauma & Complex PTSD Recovery
18:19
18:19
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18:19Ana’s piece, “That Cruel Voice In Your Head,” is one of her most intimate and clinically profound offerings yet. Through the metaphor of the Captain, Ana doesn’t just describe hypervigilance—she reframes it as sacred, powerful, and worthy of respect. This isn’t a poem. It’s a clinical reorientation of inner survival structures, delivered through po…
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What Does It Take To Really Transform Ourselves w/ Tuesdays With Morrie author Mitch Albom
1:04:38
1:04:38
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1:04:38The answer? I fervently believe there is no one answer. After a lifetime pursuing personal performance and human potential, I struggle with anyone who claims to have a so called solution for what it takes to transform us. But, are there principles? And can we gain understanding of core concepts that are nuanced from one person to another? This I do…
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Rich and Tim speak to Rasheed Pendry OBE (Director at Wandsworth) on systemic practice and leadership
1:00:56
1:00:56
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1:00:56In this conversation, Rasheed Nicholas John Pendry shares his journey into social work, highlighting the transformative impact of systemic ideas and personal experiences on his professional practice. He discusses the importance of relationships in social work, the need for cultural change within organisations, and innovative practices in family the…
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Loneliness and the highest yoga of love with Susan Gillis Chapman
31:13
31:13
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31:13068 The spiritual journey is not all love and light. The more one commits to waking up, the more life is punctuated by times of intense loneliness and a longing to be liberated from the sense of separateness. The nature of love is expansive and free flowing. Only when we fixate and try to constrain it does it become transactional and begin to sour.…
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How Music Can Enhance Our Emotions & Elevate Our Experience Of Life w/ Sara Leila Sherman
1:17:32
1:17:32
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1:17:32My only family heirloom is my Dad’s 1960s stereo console he had at boarding school. As a kid my parents listened to the music of that time and I’ll always have a special place for the likes of Barbra Striesand, The Bee Gees, and James Taylor. Around the age of seven a family friend gifted me with a transistor radio and though I had a couple dogs, m…
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Upgrade The Soundtracks That Most Influence Your Life w/ Jon Acuff
56:57
56:57
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56:57In the past year and a half much of my research on personal evolution has been around the concept of reality and how we perceive it, or rather, how we do not perceive it. As I gear up to offer you some new and I feel revolutionary concepts, in this episode I’m replaying a conversation I had on the topic of reality, with best selling author Jon Acuf…
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Rich and Tim discuss the 5 reasons why chronologies essential for effective social work practice
49:23
49:23
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49:23Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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You’re Not Healing Because You’re Fleeing: Somatic PTSD & Trauma Recovery Truth Telling
20:51
20:51
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20:51Ana is fierce, compassionate, and unyieldingly grounded in truth-telling. She speaks directly to those living with trauma and PTSD—not with pity, not with patronizing wellness clichés—but with deep integrity, lived experience, and clinical authority. Here's what she's saying at a deeper level: Core Message “There is no running toward” encapsulates …
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Fascism Doesn’t Start with Guns - It Starts with Obsession of Self Healing & Passive Liberalism
1:27
1:27
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1:27Ana is sounding the alarm: fascism doesn’t begin with violence—it begins with apathy. It creeps in through: disinterest, detachment masked as spirituality, normalized silence, the overemphasis on self-care as a form of avoidance. She is not dismissing self-care, but calling out how it’s been commodified into an escape hatch—a way for people to say,…
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How To Do Good In The World In A Way That Fits You & Actually Makes A Difference w/ Neil Ghosh
1:06:06
1:06:06
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1:06:06One of the greatest joys and fulfillments of life is helping another person. Not through the base obligations we have to family, but to reach out when we don’t have to and help lift another person up. But I find two problems that arise for most all of us; we don’t know where to plug in to really help others and when we do happen to see opportunitie…
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When Your Day Is Hard to Move Through – Somatic Tools for Trauma Healing
7:06
7:06
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7:06Ana Mael’s episode is a quiet revolution in how we meet ourselves during trauma. It may seem gentle and simple on the surface, but it is a deeply layered, somatic teaching rooted in the psychobiology of complex PTSD, reparenting, and trauma-informed self-compassion. New. Micro Lesson by Ana : https://exiledandrising.mykajabi.com/signup ❤️ Please do…
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How To Harness The Power Of Invested Feedback Like The Inklings - C.S. Lewis - J.R.R. Tolkien - w/ Diana Pavlac Glyer
52:52
52:52
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52:52Most people have heard of The Inklings, the informal literary discussion group based in Oxford, England in the 1930s and 1940s, known for fostering the writing and development of fantasy and other genres and specifically the greatest writings, and friendships, of authors such as C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, of The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of…
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Rich and Tim speak to Clarissa Stevens (Development Worker for Peer Power) on how to work with teenagers and gangs
49:55
49:55
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49:55In this episode of "Messy Social Work," hosts Rich Devine and Tim Fisher engage in a profound conversation with Clarissa Stevens, a seasoned youth worker and relational activist. Clarissa shares her journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a pivotal figure in youth advocacy. She delves into the emotional landscape of teenagers, offering in…
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You Were Silenced. Now You Lead. Rise From Trauma Of Being Invisible
21:31
21:31
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21:31Ana Mael’s episode “Wound of Non-Existence” is unapologetically radical excavation of one of the most overlooked traumas in the world: the trauma of being made invisible. In Ana’s signature voice—tender but piercing, embodied yet political—she names what so many have lived but never had language for. ❤️ Please donate . This podcast is independently…
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Dancing with the Shadow and conscious relationships with Dr Connie Zweig
38:16
38:16
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38:16067 Every rose has its thorn... so too, there is no intimacy without first facing the Shadow. In the background of our quest to be known and held deeply in relationship is a murky and sometimes dangerous territory. The Shadow contains a lifetime of unmet needs and raw emotion that can resurface abruptly in situations involving power, money and sex.…
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Find Out When & Why You Respond As An Adult vs Reacting As A Child w/Michelle Chalfant
1:28:39
1:28:39
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1:28:39Most of us think of ourselves as adults. But how often are we reacting and functioning with a lesser level of maturity and wisdom than we’d like? Than what is productive? My guest in this show is licensed therapist and holistic life coach, Michelle Chalfant. She has developed a psychological model called, The Adult Chair. She hosts a very popular p…
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Rich and Tim interview Kevin Campbell on Family Finding; an innovative method for finding family, love and connection
1:19:32
1:19:32
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1:19:32In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connections, innovative approaches in child protection, and the role of social workers in supporting youth. The discu…
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"We Are Hiring Emotional Abused!": A Satirical Exposé on How Capitalism Preys on Emotional Abuse
2:56
2:56
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2:56Praise, Obedience, Burnout: The Real Job Description for Trauma Survivors. Ana satirical monologue exposing how workplaces—especially those rooted in hierarchical, exploitative systems—capitalize on the trauma responses of emotionally abused individuals. Through a faux job advertisement, she uncovers how survivors of emotional abuse often become id…
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How Do I Get My Own Attention? w/ Amishi Jha
1:02:28
1:02:28
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1:02:28There is a lot of content out these days about attention, attention spans, and distraction. What is with the seemingly dramatic deficit we have with attention? I know for myself, I seem to look for distraction and struggle to focus, even when I’m greatly interested in what I’m working on. I make it harder for myself when I have access to all my int…
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Rich and Tim introduce 'Headlines' with CC Editor Mithran Samuel and Review 'Radical Help' by Hilary Cottam
1:07:30
1:07:30
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1:07:30Mithran's articles: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-i…
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8 Steps to Connect & Create Chemistry (or not) w/ Deep Listening Expert Emily Kasriel
1:11:14
1:11:14
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1:11:14I find there are few things as intoxicating as someone who is really interested in you. You feel they care about you, they value you, and they are curious to hear about you. This is something you can define and do, if you understand the key components. So I have an expert on listening with us. But before I introduce them, one issue that stuck out t…
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Connecting Your Work To Your Personal Mission w/ Former Chipotle Co-CEO Monty Moran
1:15:23
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1:15:23Monty Moran is the former Co-CEO of Chipotle. He joined them when they had 8 stores and left after they had over 2,500 and their valuation grew from a few million to $23 billion over his decade with the company. This isn’t a podcast about business though. I had Monty on the show because he cites his main key to the success from having one-on-one co…
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Intro to Season 3: Conscious relationships at the dawn of AI with Silas Rose
6:57
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6:57066 After an extended hiatus Awake In Relationship is back on the AIR with season 3! In this short episode Silas discusses the origins of the loneliness epidemic and the evolution of his mission in the brave new world of super intelligent machines to help people reclaim time and attention from devices to invest in conscious relationships and deep w…
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10 Most Common Attachments That Detach Us From Ourselves w/ Clinical Psychologist Bob Rosen
1:27:49
1:27:49
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1:27:49When you read messages on spirituality, you will find many references on the dangers of what we are attached to. I grew up on the Bible which I feel taught attachment to nothing but God. In recent years I’ve followed the works of Anthony de Mello and Dr David R Hawkins on the dangers of attachment, from a spiritual standpoint. Now however, someone …
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The Education & Psychology From Reading An Actual Book w/ Jeff Brown
1:04:40
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1:04:40I’m bringing back a conversation on the power of reading. Now, this isn’t something you haven’t heard of, but I think we forget the gravity of it, and I want to give quick focus to some new research I’ve done recently. My conversation here is with Jeff Brown, host of the Read To Lead podcast and author of the book, Read To Lead. As you’ll hear, we …
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Rich and Tim interview Prof Jill Derrick on the impossible imperative; navigating competing principles in child protection
1:05:19
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1:05:19We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice. From the competing tensions social workers navigate to the moral distress they often face, Jill offers deep insight into the impossible decisions that…
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The Lost Art Of Trusting Your Intuition Instead of Whatever Else You Put Your Trust In w/ Elizabeth Greenwood
1:05:17
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1:05:17Our focus is, intuition. When is the last time you even heard that word, much less gave it any attention. When a book on intuition came across my desk, I was hooked. As I studied it, my focus turned toward trust, and faith. What do you put your trust and faith in? For all those who immediately say God, I’m going to ask you to stop, and really consi…
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How Self-Care Became a Tool of Tyranny and Fascism — And You Didn’t Even Notice. You Got Played and Lost Moral Clarity!
25:01
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25:01“Fascism doesn’t begin with guns. It begins with people whispering affirmations while their neighbors are deported.” "Tyranny doesn’t begin with guns. It begins with disinterest." "Self-care without moral clarity is just another form of self-abandonment." What if the obsession with self-care is no longer care—but emotional neglect, disguised as hea…
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Tyranny Can Begin Because You Lost Your Humanity to the Self-Care Industry
8:17
8:17
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8:17When self-care becomes a lifestyle brand instead of a path to embodied truth, we begin to shrink. We forget to protest. We ignore each other’s pain. We starve while smiling. With piercing clarity and somatic wisdom, Ana Mael challenges the healing world’s obsession with self-love, self-mastery, and self-optimization — and asks what we’re losing in …
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