Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher. Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
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The Awake In Relationship podcast explores the art of intimacy and community in the digital age. Build your social fitness habit with inspiration from long form interviews with thought leaders on the frontiers of mindfulness, conscious relationships, community building, deep work and social impact leadership. Fresh episodes drop twice a month on all major platforms.
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Join Purpose Coach Kevin Miller as he conducts deep discussions on personal evolution from his own, curious journey toward greater purpose and deeper fulfillment. Kevin researches and curates the best teachers and guides you may never find, as they are busy teaching in classes, counseling in therapy rooms, researching in labs, and coaching in offices. Go from knowledge to integration at kevinmiller.co *Over 70 million downloads, 300 expert guests, 1,500 episodes...and the journey continues o ...
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This is not a podcast for the mainstream. This is for the silenced, the cast out, and those whose stories never made the headlines. A Groundbreaking Trauma Justice Podcast from a Genocide Survivor and Somatic Therapist. Deeply embodied, politically urgent, and spiritually grounded space led by a therapist who survived war and genocide herself. Ana Mael is not just talking about trauma—she has lived it, survived it, and now guides others through it with radical clarity and compassion. This po ...
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Rich and Tim introduce 'Headlines' with CC Editor Mithran Samuel and Review 'Radical Help' by Hilary Cottam
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1:07:30Mithran's articles: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-i…
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8 Steps to Connect & Create Chemistry (or not) w/ Deep Listening Expert Emily Kasriel
1:15:14
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1:15:14I find there are few things as intoxicating as someone who is really interested in you. You feel they care about you, they value you, and they are curious to hear about you. This is something you can define and do, if you understand the key components. So I have an expert on listening with us. But before I introduce them, one issue that stuck out t…
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Connecting Your Work To Your Personal Mission w/ Former Chipotle Co-CEO Monty Moran
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1:19:23Monty Moran is the former Co-CEO of Chipotle. He joined them when they had 8 stores and left after they had over 2,500 and their valuation grew from a few million to $23 billion over his decade with the company. This isn’t a podcast about business though. I had Monty on the show because he cites his main key to the success from having one-on-one co…
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Intro to Season 3: Conscious relationships at the dawn of AI with Silas Rose
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6:57066 After an extended hiatus Awake In Relationship is back on the AIR with season 3! In this short episode Silas discusses the origins of the loneliness epidemic and the evolution of his mission in the brave new world of super intelligent machines to help people reclaim time and attention from devices to invest in conscious relationships and deep w…
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10 Most Common Attachments That Detach Us From Ourselves w/ Clinical Psychologist Bob Rosen
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1:31:49When you read messages on spirituality, you will find many references on the dangers of what we are attached to. I grew up on the Bible which I feel taught attachment to nothing but God. In recent years I’ve followed the works of Anthony de Mello and Dr David R Hawkins on the dangers of attachment, from a spiritual standpoint. Now however, someone …
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The Education & Psychology From Reading An Actual Book w/ Jeff Brown
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1:02:40I’m bringing back a conversation on the power of reading. Now, this isn’t something you haven’t heard of, but I think we forget the gravity of it, and I want to give quick focus to some new research I’ve done recently. My conversation here is with Jeff Brown, host of the Read To Lead podcast and author of the book, Read To Lead. As you’ll hear, we …
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Rich and Tim interview Prof Jill Derrick on the impossible imperative; navigating competing principles in child protection
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1:05:19We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice. From the competing tensions social workers navigate to the moral distress they often face, Jill offers deep insight into the impossible decisions that…
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The Lost Art Of Trusting Your Intuition Instead of Whatever Else You Put Your Trust In w/ Elizabeth Greenwood
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1:09:17Our focus is, intuition. When is the last time you even heard that word, much less gave it any attention. When a book on intuition came across my desk, I was hooked. As I studied it, my focus turned toward trust, and faith. What do you put your trust and faith in? For all those who immediately say God, I’m going to ask you to stop, and really consi…
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How Self-Care Became a Tool of Tyranny and Fascism — And You Didn’t Even Notice. You Got Played and Lost Moral Clarity!
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25:01“Fascism doesn’t begin with guns. It begins with people whispering affirmations while their neighbors are deported.” "Tyranny doesn’t begin with guns. It begins with disinterest." "Self-care without moral clarity is just another form of self-abandonment." What if the obsession with self-care is no longer care—but emotional neglect, disguised as hea…
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Tyranny Can Begin Because You Lost Your Humanity to the Self-Care Industry
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8:17
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8:17When self-care becomes a lifestyle brand instead of a path to embodied truth, we begin to shrink. We forget to protest. We ignore each other’s pain. We starve while smiling. With piercing clarity and somatic wisdom, Ana Mael challenges the healing world’s obsession with self-love, self-mastery, and self-optimization — and asks what we’re losing in …
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The Ripple Effects Of What You Teach Others w/ Seth Godin
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1:16:52“I would like to be measured by what the people who learned from me taught other people.” This is what my guest said, and I’ve never forgotten it. Seth Godin is one of the premier voices of business in our generation, and he was one of my first guests when I was host of The Ziglar Show, and this was the second time I had him on a show. Seth is well…
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Rich and Tim speak to Senior Social Worker, Duane Phillips about being mixed heritage, male social worker, working with fathers and much more
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46:35In this episode with speak with Duane Phillips, Senior Social Worker at Coventry City Council. We talk about: Duane's experience growing up mixed heritage working with children, families and community Duane's experience working as a family support worker and running groups for men Being a male social worker And much more... We hope you enjoy this e…
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You Lost Your Humanity to the Self-Care Industry
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10:45With piercing clarity and somatic wisdom, Ana Mael challenges the healing world’s obsession with self-love, self-mastery, and self-optimization — and asks what we’re losing in the process. When self-care becomes a lifestyle brand instead of a path to embodied truth, we begin to shrink. We forget to protest. We ignore each other’s pain. We starve wh…
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The C.I.A. Model To Get Us To Move w/ Former Operative Michele Rigby Assad
1:21:39
1:21:39
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1:21:39Would you like to be better at getting yourself to move? When you have an overall desire, but find yourself struggling to take the first step and just get going? I think we all do in certain areas of our lives and from what I experience it is getting worse. So I’ve brought on an expert and we’re going to exaggerate the point to help us better conce…
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How To Have A Fit Spirit w/ Kate Eckman
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1:22:09Notice I said “spirit” and not “spirituality.” To me they overlap, but this is not a faith based message. Our focus is, your spirit, which I think of like your energy and your “vibe” if you will. Thinking on spirituality, I grew up in a religious construct where many people who were devoted to their spirituality, had very poor and lacking spirits, …
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Rich and Tim speak to Terri-Anne (Project Worker and Care Experienced) about requesting and reading her files
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1:24:01This week, we have our first-ever return guest, Terri Anne, who shares the important work of the Care Leavers Association and delves into her exploration of the emotional rollercoaster of retrieving and reading her care files. Tim interviews care leaver Liana Karim and Jo about their National Voice Project, and some stark findings from a massive st…
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Use This to Be Seen, Heard, and Validated: Statements List. Somatic Trauma Healing.
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3:06If you've ever struggled to express what happened to you—or needed the right words to feel seen, heard, and validated—this episode is your lifeline. In this powerful episode of Exiled & Rising, Ana Mael shares a deeply moving list of healing statements and trauma-informed boundaries every survivor needs. ❤️ Support Your Healing Journey and Exiled a…
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Recognize The Victim Identity Of Our Culture & How To Overcome It In Yourself w/ Columbia Psych Professor Scott Barry Kaufman
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1:03:53When COVID hit we all wore masks, so as not to infect each other or get infected. I and many others perceive that a more dangerous virus is among us, and it’s a victim mindset, which results in a victim identity. So how can we protect ourselves? My guest is Scott Barry Kaufman, Ph.D., a cognitive psychologist who is among the top one percent most c…
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How Your Work Contributes To A Meaningful Life w/ Career Guru Dan Miller
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1:07:51What began as a discussion on whether our work must really be so important ultimately came to our need to know ourselves and what really fulfills us individually. And while yes, having meaningful work is profound to the joy of our lives, it’s also not meant to be the end all to our purpose and calling, but a tool. For this conversation I brought on…
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What 10 years in child protection taught me about people, pain and purpose
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57:08In this episode, Rich and Tim and live and in person in Rich's living - they unpack 10 lessons from Rich's experience in child protection, with Tim surprising Rich with a Paxman style interview, quizzing and questioning his central ideas. Do they withstand the scrutiny, tune in to find out. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ R…
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Not Being Limited By The Harsh Realities Of Our Lives w/ Karena Kilcoyne
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1:41:55I’ve given focus to how we perceive our stories. We’ve also looked at toxic positivity and the damage of just trying to paint a pretty picture. We all encounter circumstances and events in our lives that challenge us. From massive traumas and tragedies to just disheartening disappointments. They all matter in regards to how we go forward in life. F…
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It Was Just a Normal Childhood… Wasn’t It? For All Adults With Childhood Trauma
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46:07This episode isn’t just healing—it’s cultural critique, political advocacy, and nervous system literacy woven together. In a landscape where "healing" is often watered down into Instagram platitudes or spiritual bypassing, this episode reclaims trauma work as justice work. What if going home never felt safe? In this raw, unedited, and deeply embodi…
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The Lost Art Of Actually Asking For Personal Guidance & Help w/ Mark & Crystal Hansen
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1:08:12
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1:08:12A book landed on my desk a few years ago called, Ask - The Bridge from Your Dreams to Your Destiny. And lo and behold the author was Mark Victor Hanson and his wife Crystal. Mark is cited as one of the bestselling authors of all-time, as he is credited along with Jack Canfield for the entire Chicken Soup For The Soul franchise which has sold over h…
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Professor Clive Diaz on psychoanalytical ideas in contemporary social work
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1:05:25In this episode, we speak to Professor Clive Diaz, a music producer who has also worked as a social worker, principal social worker, researcher, professor, and psychoanalytical psychotherapist. We discuss the relevance of psychoanalytical ideas in modern social work, such as transference, countertransference, the unconscious, and much more. Can the…
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You Need Justice, Not Breathwork: How Silence Shaped You & Society (Part 2)
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33:59Ana is not just teaching about trauma. She’s renaming the moral and political architecture that protects it. She dismantles: Silence as safety Strength as suppression Healing as isolation And replaces them with: Voice as birthright Co-regulation as repair Justice as embodied integrity “Your voice isn’t too much. It’s exactly what was missing. And i…
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The Human Style For Your Most Effectiveness, Efficiency & Energy w/ Erin Claire Jones
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1:35:18Most everyone is aware of their personality style. You’ve likely taken one or five personality tests and quizzes where you answer a bunch of questions about yourself. What are your propensities and predispositions? I appreciate them all and have found some value from each in helping me understand and get some insight into myself. Yet I’ve also stru…
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From Being Bullied To Being A Bully To Imprisonment To Legendary Men's Leader w/ Tommy Breedlove
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1:16:06I feel most of us are looking for a bit of new knowledge, something to help us improve our results. Kind of like weight loss and you just want to drop 5 or 10 pounds. So you make some little shifts and changes. Then you have someone like a friend of mine who went from morbidly obese to losing well over 100 pounds. Such a life change. This is a stor…
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George Fielding BEM on living with cerebral palsy and how we can put the social back into social care
1:06:23
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1:06:23This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentored over 100 disabled people, and received an MBE. George also set up two care organisations that focus on d…
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Can You Really Change Your Personality? Do You Really Even Want To? w/ Olga Khazan
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1:29:02I grew up in the world of self-improvement when personality profiles became popular. The idea then was you had a core personality style and it was pretty solid, like your hair color. Culturally we like to label people’s personalities, “She’s a classic type A personality,” and “Oh, he’s super introverted.” In regards to changing one’s personality, I…
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Rich and Tim take on the top three myths in child protection work
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39:26In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work. They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challenges social workers face in balancing their roles. Rich shares insights from his book, addressing misconceptions about the abilit…
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How To Have A Compelling & Relatable Online Personality w/ Erica Dhawan
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1:03:28I find that when we communicate with others, in any way, we are either helping or hurting our relationship with them. Yet every day, more and more of our communication is digital. I cut my relationship teeth as a kid on Dale Carnegie’s book, “How To Win Friends and Influence People.” But this assumed we were face to face. How do we win friends and …
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If You Fear Tyranny or Dictatorship: Welcome!
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4:12
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4:12Exiled and Rising isn’t just healing. It’s human rights. It’s survival. It’s resistance. It is : A refuge for the unseen A movement for displaced, exiled, and silenced voices—not just a podcast A justice-centered somatic space, not a self-improvement brand This is not just another podcast about trauma healing. This is a sanctuary for the unseen. A …
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Haunting Truth: For All Adults with Childhood Trauma
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6:59
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6:59In haunting “Walk Home,” Ana Mael delivers something that is rare and profoundly necessary: A Language for the Unspoken This piece gives voice to the invisible pain of children—and adults—who dread returning to a place that is supposed to feel safe. She does not explain the trauma. She names it. She feels it. And in doing so, she makes it real for …
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The Science Around - Can I Succeed? Do I Belong? Am I Loved? w/ Stanford Psych Professor Dr. Gregory Walton
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1:12:03Listen to those three questions again - Can I Succeed? Do I Belong? Am I Loved? I’m tempted to feel those questions address the root issue of every human on earth. As I continue to research personal identity and how we as a culture seem to be more fragile and threatened than ever, I feel these questions are primary. So I had a conversation with Dr …
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Rich and Tim introduce 'Messy Social Work' and discuss Rich's blog on reasons for not being a manager
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40:02In this episode of the newly named podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Rich's blog; 15 Years in Social Work – And 4 Reasons I am Still Not a Manager. Rich qualified as a social worker 15 years ago and has never held a management role. This has been a deliberate choice. He has remained working directly with children and families. There are four key reason…
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How To Have A Podcast People Listen To & If You Should Even Have One | w/ Jordan Harbinger
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1:08:32We are at a time when anyone with a message is pushing to have a book and a podcast. I have been in the podcast game a long time and things have changed a lot. But the question of what makes a good podcast and if you should even have one, hasn’t changed. So I’m bringing back a discussion I had a few years ago with Jordan Harbinger. Jordan has an in…
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For Cold Bitches & Emotionless Men: The Strength Behind the Shield
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20:01Have you ever been called a “cold, distant bitch”? Or an emotionless prick? In this episode, Ana Mael reveals the untold story behind these labels and explores how what the world sees as "cold" is actually profound emotional intelligence. Being labeled “cold” is not a weakness—it’s a survival mechanism. This episode is for anyone who has been misun…
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The Rise Of Fear Culture & How To Better Understand & Embrace Courage w/ Margie Warrell
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1:23:54The topic today is courage and my guest defines courage as, consciously choosing to act in the presence of fear and potential risk, real or perceived, and she cites it as a learnable skill. Dr. Margie Warrell is a five-time best-selling author and Forbes columnist. She’s the author of the upcoming book The Courage Gap: 5 Steps to Braver Action whic…
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Social Anxiety Isn't Just Nerves: The Trauma Behind Your Fear of Connection
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8:07Social anxiety is not just shyness—it's a battle within your body, a fight for survival in a world that constantly demands you to be seen. But what if I told you that the very same body that holds your fear also holds the key to your healing? Social anxiety is often misunderstood as just being shy or introverted, but it’s far deeper than that—it’s …
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The Massive Benefit Of Treating All People With Respect W/ My Father Dan Miller
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56:37
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56:37I grew up with parents who had me reading Dale Carnegie’s book, How To Win Friends & Influence People, when other kids were reading comic books. They modeled being respectful to all people, especially those in the least positions of power. I actually found them to be far more intolerant of those in power. Four years ago I sat down with my Dad, Dan …
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Professor Anna Gupta (Royal Holloway, University of London) on Poverty and intersectionality
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51:24In this episode, we interview Professor Anna Gupta about her early experiences as a social worker, her transition into academia, and her important work on poverty and intersectionality in the context of child protection. We explore: - The social model - intersectionality - The role of poverty in child abuse and neglect - The capabilities approach H…
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A somatic prayer to call in love that holds, honors, and does not erase you. In this deeply soothing prayer of Exiled & Rising, Ana Mael offers a somatic prayer for those seeking love that does not cost them their truth, their boundaries, or their body. This is not a prayer of performance. It is a prayer of presence—an invitation to receive love th…
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Taking On The Concept Of Self-Reliance w/ Maha Abouelenein
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1:07:26What is healthy and helpful self-reliance? I submit that few of us know and most of us are falling to one side or another of unhealth. On one side we exercise very little self-reliance, which means if we are not relying on self, we are relying on others. On the other side is an overabundance of self-reliance where we rely almost exclusively on ours…
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It Takes More Than Good Character To Earn People’s Trust w/ David Horsager
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1:02:35Welcome. I'm Kevin Miller and this is a podcast for your personal evolution. In this episode we’re talking about trust. In today’s culture more than ever, trust is the number one asset of success. But we are often failing to gain people’s trust, and we don’t understand why. We inherently think of trust as something you have and are, or don’t have a…
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Rich and Tim on how to find meaning in life
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44:17In this episode of the Relational Activism in Social Work podcast, asides Tim's nice hair and the clay.... Tim Fisher FRSA and Richard Devine discuss the powerful insights from James Hollis' Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life. They explore the challenges of midlife, from the loss of purpose in previously fulfilling careers to the struggle b…
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A Prayer for When It’s Too Much to Carry: Held in Grief
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5:19Whether you are mourning the loss of a loved one, the loss of home, the loss of safety, or the loss of faith in your country or community—this prayer is for you. In this sacred and unedited episode of Exiled and Rising, Ana Mael offers a somatic prayer for those carrying grief that is too heavy to hold alone. This episode is a place to lay your sor…
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How To Help Humanity With Your Grocery Shopping w/ Fair Trade Founder Paul Rice
1:36:21
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1:36:21I find people who are seeking to evolve personally, greatly desire to contribute to humanity. The people in need are endless and there are global plights that we feel impotent to address. What I’ve come to learn is how much good we can do with our simple grocery store purchases. This isn’t an ad, just my normal curiosity in evolving myself and matu…
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I Survived Genocide: This Is What I Didn't Survive—And You Won't Either
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8:37In this unfiltered, soul-witnessing episode of Exiled and Rising, Ana Mael reads directly from page 185 of her memoir The Trauma We Don’t Talk About. This is a reading and reflection—not from the past, but from the living, ongoing truth of what genocide does to the body, the nervous system, and the identity. In a world where genocide is happening i…
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A Formula For Peak Performance w/ Legendary Performance Researcher Steven Kotler
1:11:36
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1:11:36I’m skeptical of any claim of a “formula” regarding personal evolution. And you’ll notice I say “a formula” and not “the formula.” But many things can be boiled down to some core ingredients. The difference in my opinion is this formula is less like a cooking recipe you just easily mix and bake and is more like an intense formulaic math equation yo…
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Jamie Spencer (London Borough of Camden) on Data, Community and Connection
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42:37In this episode, we interview Jamie Spencer, who holds the position of 'Head of Insight, Quality, Financial Services, and Digital for Camden Adult Social Care'. However, don't let that job title deter you from listening, as Jamie has had a fascinating journey through social care from support worker to senior leader and has been at the forefront of …
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