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Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

Phillip Hayes and Jason Miller

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ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Phillip Hayes and Jason Miller explain the process of the ESOP transaction and address ESOPs from a business owner's perspective. They illuminate the simplicity of ESOPs and debunk common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated.
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NPR's Mountain Stage

West Virginia Public Broadcasting

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The Mountain Stage Podcast is the complete recording of the entire live show. It features songs that were cut from the radio broadcast, and it is the only place you can hear the full finale song. New episodes become available about 10 days after the premiere broadcast date. We have Spring and Fall seasons of new broadcasts, so if you heard a recent show but don’t see it at the top of the feed, just scroll back a few weeks or use the search function to find a specific artist.
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This episode was recorded on March 9, 2025 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes The MC Taylor Goldsmith Show (featuring Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes and MC Taylor of Hiss Golden Messenger), Kat Edmonson, Ken Pomeroy, Jonny Fritz, and Scott Mulvahill. https://bit.ly/4iftS6O…
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The show “Band of Brothers” offers a perfect example of leadership from the character of Captain Sobel and provides examples of overcoming obstacles to establish a strong culture. Specifically, the show provides an example of an employee-centric culture: a culture that embodies a solid group of employees ultimately banding together. This episode co…
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This episode was recorded on February 16th, 2025 at the Canady Creative Arts Centerat West Virginia University in Morgantown, WV. The lineup includes Larkin Poe, Victoria Canal, Raye Zaragoza, Ron Pope, and Christian Lopez. https://bit.ly/3RWmKBeBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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This episode was recorded on February 2nd, 2025 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes The Headhunters, Amanda Anne Platt & The Honeycutters, David Berkeley, Buffalo Rose, and Crys Matthews. https://bit.ly/42AWjHvBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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In this episode the podcast discusses the recent uncertainty with the economy and how this effects the ESOP world. Considering this, the podcast interviews senior level banker Chris Cucci with Climate First Bank. Chris’ bank does financing for ESOP deals all over the United States, providing valuable perspective on ESOP financing credit decisions i…
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This episode was recorded on December 8, 2024 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes SKip Moore, Joy Clark, Brad Tursi, Andrew Marlin Stringband, and Matt Mullins & The Bringdowns with guest host David Mayfield. bit.ly/4iwypCoBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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This episode provides the background on both Warrants and SARs in an ESOP transaction. The typical usage of synthetic equity structured within a deal can create a solid win-win for the shareholders and the company. Within the topic, the podcast uses the Nicolas Cage film “Knowing” as an example to explain how a warrant and SAR model help to predict…
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This episode was recorded on December 1st, 2024 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes Stephen Kellogg, Jill Sobule, Mindy Smith, Caleb Caudle & The Sweet Critters, and The David Mayfield Parade, with guest host Conor Knighton. http://bit.ly/3FLIixDBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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On this podcast episode we interview Jason Ireland, President of Industrial Supply Company (ISCO), a distributor of manufacturing parts who went 100 percent ESOP last year. Jason explains the step by step process their 100-year-old company went through to transition to an ESOP process. The company was part union and part non-union, providing some b…
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The Mad World of ESOPs! This episode reviews the roles ESOP professionals play and the reality of variance in one transaction to another. We discuss the differences in costs, approaches to structure, closings, and other areas given the backgrounds, perspectives and objectives in leading the transaction. This episode is intended to help orient the l…
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In some cases an ESOP company can choose to sell to an outside buyer after they transition to an employee-owned company. In this episode Greg Daugherty, Porter Wright and, I discuss the factors related to selling your company after it has become an employee-owned company. Greg does a great job of discussing how this process works and what business …
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Arguably one of the best James Bond 007 movies - “Casino Royale” - is it time to get some chips off the table? This episode focuses on the motivations of why some companies look at doing a partial ESOP which is going to be accompanied by risk/reward decisions. Not as risky as going all in and hoping for the high hand. But a partial ESOP can still b…
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Journey to an ESOP and Beyond continues to bring perspectives that can challenge conventional thinking and at the least provide the listener with questions for their advisors. Jeff Forrestall, CPA provides a good overview of the changes in SBA ESOP financing as well as a compelling forward planning model to leverage the C Corp opportunity beyond 10…
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This episode takes advantage of the classic film “Meet Joe Black” starring Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins. The podcast uses the movie to demonstrate the two guarantees in life - Death and Taxes. The nuances of taxes can catch individuals by surprise. As it relates to an ESOP transaction - most of the time there is a resulting seller note established…
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This is the first episode of the new year where we like to cover changes to the podcast. This kick off message for season 6 focuses on our core value: “It Takes A Team”. This works out well to connect the dots on the old tv show and 2010 movie “The A - Team”. Some of the changes to the podcast have already been incorporated in our logo change. This…
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This episode was recorded on November 3rd, 2024 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes Brother Elsey, Jenny Owen Youngs, Matt Pond PA, Caleb Klauder & Reeb Willms, and Jeremy Short. http://bit.ly/3Pl761nBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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Every company has its own lessons to be learned in the journey of converting to an ESOP. This interview with Kevin MacRitchie, CEO and Karen Lyons, CFO of Tactical Rehab provides key leadership perspective on the transition of this company through the process of becoming an ESOP. Kevin has a large company background and has brought a level of manag…
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This episode highlights the leadership issue a business finds itself continually facing. Ongoing leadership development is a common concern with most companies both before, during, and after the ESOP transition. Going through the feeling of being “Alone Again” is a natural and normal issue that needs to be addressed whether it be for management suc…
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This episode was recorded on October 27th, 2024 at the Culture Center Theater in Charleston, WV. The lineup includes Dave Alvin & Jimmie Dale Gilmore with the Guilty Ones, Will Hoge, Alex Cuba, MALINDA, and Sarah Siskind. https://bit.ly/3ZcDA3oBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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This episode addresses effort the challenges and applicable solutions for a mature ESOP company. Diana Clark and Jason Miller provide insight into including preservation of ESOP knowledge in the organization contemplating changes to leadership. Other items we discuss include how to look ahead at areas that need to be thought about not only as a mat…
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This episode was inspired by the recent NCEO conference and provides a good overview for those that are new to an ESOP or those who have recently transitioned to an ESOP. The podcast discusses the need to build the employee-ownership concept as a vibrant part of the culture of your company. As we go through some of these concepts, we will address t…
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This episode is extremely timely given the potential changes to estate tax. Agnes Gregory with Berman Hopkins CPA tax team in Orlando FL and Justin Stemple with Warner Norcross + Judd from Grand Rapids, MI explain how important it is to have an Estate/Gift Tax plan going into an ESOP transaction. We cover some important elements of Estate planning …
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This episode focuses on the role of the ESOP trustee through an interview with Bryce Lenox - an ESOP trustee out of Cincinnati, OH. Bryce does a great job reviewing the role of an ESOP trustee both on the transaction and ongoing side. Relating to transaction, Bryce explains the role he plays as a buyer and the steps he takes to conform to the depar…
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In this podcast episode we use a classic scene from the movie “Pink Panther” which highlights using the “American” French accent to illustrate the strangeness related to an ESOP negotiation. In ESOP transactions it is important to understand that the purchase price or valuation of shares being sold hinge on the ultimate result of the negotiation wi…
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This episode we invite Diana Clark, who specializes as a full-time ESOP communication’s consultant, to provide a framework to understand the power of frequent and effective communication around employee ownership. If you are brand new to ESOPs or been an employee-owned company for a few years or even many years - the bottom line of communication wi…
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This episode is part 2 of discussing the inside note versus the outside note on an ESOP transaction. We feature the recently released part 2 of Inside Out - as it is an excellent sequel in the story of how human emotions can play into how we make decisions , in particular how anxiety can cause problems in daily life. The podcast contrasts this to h…
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This episode represents the 2nd interview with Joe Hurt of RLH Construction. Joe discusses some of the challenges and opportunities of an established ESOP. A few years into their ESOP, RLH Construction has experienced very strong results from the ESOP. Joe is the CEO of the company and has worked through issues such as leadership transition, retiri…
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This episode provides clarification to the difference between an inside note and an outside note. In an ESOP transaction there will be two types of notes created when the transaction occurs. This episode is part 1 of 2 episodes. The first part explains the background of the terminology as it relates to why these two types of notes exist. The majori…
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On the podcast this week, we interview Corey Rosen, the founder of NCEO and a huge contributor to ESOPs discusses the updates and trends relative to ESOP companies. Through our discussion, Corey highlights the expansion of ESOPs as the finance world has begun to leverage this realities and benefits of an ESOP in private equity. Some of these ideas …
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In this episode we discuss the motivations for selling your business to an ESOP. The focus of this episode is to help better understand the reasons to choose an ESOP. The episode was encouraged by the experiences of working through other company’s ESOPs and interacting with diverse personalities and companies, along with their varying goals and obj…
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This episode will be very informative through the long-tenured experience of Renee Jenkins with Holiday Builder’s ESOP. Renee has been a long-time employee of the company managing the Finance/HR Branch. On this episode of the Podcast, we discuss the issues in a straightforward approach and solutions that she has worked through. This discussion cove…
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We find that once an ESOP closes, there is some degree of uncertainty on the next steps. In this episode, we focus on the ESOP closing guide to prepare clients on the correct ways to implement the organizational structure and timeline of a successful ESOP. In other words, we cover how to accomplish a company’s goals in the transition of an ESOP tha…
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On this episode, Jason Miller (former National Director of ESOPs for Bank of America) and I explore the “Expanding ESOP Initiative” that was recently aired on 60 Minutes. The focus of this podcast is to provide an update as to what is happening in the National ESOP space and how the ESOP initiative started. The initiative’s work is centered around …
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This episode was recorded on April 28th, 2024 at WVU's Canaday Creative Arts Center in Morgantown, WV. The lineup includes Ruthie Foster, Charlie Mars, Fellow Pynins, The Wandering Hearts, Rebecca Porter, and guest host David Mayfield. https://bit.ly/4aMlc3ZBy West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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This episode was recorded on April 21st, 2024 at Ohio Univeristy's Templeton-Blackburn Alumni Memorial Auditorium in Athens, Ohio. The lineup includes Bettye LaVette, Keller Williams, Kim Richey, The Langan Band, Megan Jean's Secret Family. https://bit.ly/4aGU9H9By West Virginia Public Broadcasting
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