31. Heart Transformation Over Behavior Modification with Nikki Ogden

Kids Ministry Calling with Jana Magruder

Welcome back to our Summer Book Club Series on Kids Ministry Calling! In this episode, our producer and guest host Nikki Ogden sits down with Jana Magruder to explore one of the most foundational principles of a truly nourishing kids ministry: focusing on heart transformation over behavior modification.

It’s easy in ministry to celebrate good behavior, memorized verses, or quiet participation—but Jesus calls us to something deeper. Jana reminds us that our goal isn’t to raise well-behaved kids; it’s to raise gospel-transformed hearts that truly know and follow Jesus.

Together Nikki and Jana discuss what it means to align ministry philosophy with the heart of Jesus and why simply teaching children to “be good” misses the deeper purpose of discipleship. Jana shares practical strategies for weaving the gospel into every aspect of kids ministry, stories from her own experience, and insights into how leaders can partner with families to nurture lasting spiritual growth. If you’ve ever wondered how to move beyond surface-level lessons and into life-changing discipleship, this episode will both challenge and encourage you.

Thanks for joining us for another episode in our Summer Book Club Series! If this conversation with Jana Magruder helped you rethink how you're discipling kids—or encouraged you to refocus your ministry on what truly matters—we’d love for you to take a moment to rate, review, and share the podcast. Your support helps more ministry leaders discover these important conversations. Don’t forget to pass this episode along to your team or a fellow leader—it just might be the spark they need.

SHOW LINKS:

The Gospel Project

The Levels of Biblical Living

ETCH Conference

Connect with Lifeway Kids
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