KOL449 | Trademarking the Infinite Banking Concept?

Kinsella On Liberty

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 449. I was interviewed by Logan Hertz, of Hazeltine LLC, about attempts by the Nelson Nash Institute, they of the poorly-named "Infinite Banking" concept, to use trademark to bully competitors. I discuss the general problem with IP and then apply it to trademark, and provide suggestions as to more "ethical" ways of using trademark and IP in an IP-world. See also Logan's LinkedIn post. Grok shownotes: In this episode of the Hazeltine LLC podcast, host Logan Herz engages with Stephan Kinsella, a retired patent attorney and libertarian writer, to discuss the contentious issue of intellectual property (IP) law, focusing on the Nelson Nash Institute’s trademarking of the Infinite Banking Concept (IBC) [0:00-2:30]. Kinsella, author of Against Intellectual Property, outlines the three main types of IP—patents, copyrights, and trademarks—explaining their origins and how they function as government-granted monopolies that often stifle innovation, restrict free speech, and enable corporate bullying [2:30-15:00]. He argues that patent law hinders technological progress by delaying the public use of inventions, copyright law threatens free expression with excessively long terms, and trademark law, as seen with the IBC, grants undue control over descriptive phrases, allowing entities like the Nelson Nash Institute to legally intimidate competitors [15:00-20:10]. Kinsella critiques the Nelson Nash Institute’s approach to trademark enforcement, suggesting it reflects a broader problem with IP laws that prioritize corporate control over consumer protection [20:10-36:00]. He proposes an ethical alternative where the Institute could license the IBC trademark for a nominal fee with disclaimers, preserving their mark without aggressive enforcement [26:55-31:10]. The conversation also explores the hypocrisy of libertarian-leaning organizations using state-backed IP laws, the historical roots of copyright monopolies, and the sufficiency of contract and fraud laws to address consumer confusion without IP [31:10-44:00]. Kinsella concludes by challenging the Institute to reconsider their tactics and offers practical guidance for navigating IP laws ethically, emphasizing reputation and service quality over legal battles [1:12:00-1:14:15]. Transcript, time stamps, and Grok detailed summary below For more, see: Do Business Without Intellectual Property. https://youtu.be/EezJNq-FXQc?si=zPY2QdgLqeqqnf0- Timestamps 0:00 Introduction to Stephan and Context 2:30 Intellectual Property Law 4:00 Problems with Intellectual Property Law 7:20 Patent law stifles innovation 8:40 Copyright law threatens free speech 10:15 Trademark law gives monopoly privilege 15:00 Three types of IP: patent, copyright, trademark 18:00 The IBC trademark is a real stretch 20:10 Trademarking IBC is a license for extortion and bullying 21:50 How IP law enabled the tech oligopoly 24:30 Tesla and Twitter counterexample 26:55 How the Nelson Nash Institute could ethically use a trademark 31:10 Intellectual property monopoly 33:30 The dubious origins of copyright 36:00 Trademarks protect the corporate bully, not the customer 39:45 We already have contract law 44:00 Reputation is ultimately what matters 45:35 Information cannot be "owned" 46:30 Negative easements 48:50 Intellectual property "rights" as monopoly privileges 50:25 Force and violence implicit in IP enforcement 53:15 Proper understanding of law 56:00 Legal positivism 1:00:00 Making distinctions 1:03:05 Constructive criticism of the Nelson Nash Institute 1:09:20 How trademarks encourage bullying 1:12:00 Stephan's ethical challenge to the Nelson Nash Institute 1:14:15 How to ethically navigate IP laws #ethics #intellectualproperty #hazeltinellc #infinitebanking #infinitebankingconcept #nelsonnash #wholelifeinsurance #wholelife Bullet-Point Summary for Show Notes with Time Markers and Block-by-Block Breakdown Summary Overview