Jacqueline Woodson & Catherine Gund: Breathing Through Chaos & the “Meanwhile” [Full Uncut Conversation]

Laura Flanders and Friends: Historic Perspectives with Forward-Thinking Changemakers From the World's of Politics, Arts, & Activism

In 'Meanwhile', Jacqueline Woodson and Catherine Gund weave together the words of literary legends to explore the intersection of art, grief, and social justice.

Description: James Baldwin, Toni Morrison, Muhammad Ali and Nina Simone are some of the artists featured in the moving new film “Meanwhile”, from National Book Award-winner Jacqueline Woodson and Emmy-nominated producer & director Catherine Gund. Their meditations on grief, art, breath and more are beautifully woven together as the film poses the question, how do you keep breathing amidst the chaos? Catalyzed by the Covid-19 pandemic and the police killing of George Floyd, Gund and Woodson tap into our shared existence. The artists featured in the docu-poem, with a haunting soundtrack by Meshell Ndegeocello, work through questions of race, political violence, resistance and identity — so much of what shapes our lives and relationships. “This is not a love letter to this country but to us inside this country,” says Woodson in the film. “We see us. We love us. We make eye contact and nod to us”. In this conversation with Laura Flanders, the trio of longtime friends discuss the film from Aubin Pictures, the losses they experienced in the 80s, and how the arts and poetry can compel us to enact change. Can we reclaim the “meanwhile”? All that, plus a commentary from Laura on hers.

“. . . Having lost people so early and in such quick succession and under such an awful oppressive situation [of AIDS in the 80s], . . . each one of those hit so hard. We wrote and we made movies, and we had these elaborate memorials, and we did things to process and grieve. I am really holding on to that approach to death and dying as we get older, because I don't wanna ever not care.” - Catherine Gund

Guests:

• Catherine Gund: Producer & Director, Meanwhile; Filmmaker & Founder, Aubin Pictures

• Jacqueline Woodson: Writer & Performer, Meanwhile; Author, Brown Girl Dreaming; Founder, Baldwin for the Arts; The Elders Project, Columbia

Full Conversation Release: While our weekly shows are edited to time for broadcast on Public TV and community radio, we offer to our members and podcast subscribers the full uncut conversation. These audio exclusives are made possible thanks to our member supporters.

Watch the special report released on YouTube May 16th 5pm ET; PBS World Channel May 18th, and on over 300 public stations across the country (check your listings, or search here via zipcode). Listen: Episode airing on community radio (check here to see if your station airs the show) & available as a podcast May 21st.

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RESOURCES:

Watch the broadcast episode cut for time at our YouTube channel and airing on PBS stations across the country

Full Episode Notes are located HERE.

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Related Articles and Resources:

• Jacqueline Woodson: Kennedy Center Education Artist-in-Residence (2022-2024)

• Catherine Gund’s Meanwhile: A gorgeous, quietly energetic, and moving meditation on Black resilience and world-making in the face of interminable violence. by Brittany Turner, March 2025, The Brooklyn Rail

• Ivy Young, D.C. journalist, poet, and activist dies at 75: A life of service dedicated to community building. By Staff reports, June 6, 2023, Washington Blade

• Gai Gherardi, legendary co-founder of L.A. Eyeworks, Garrett Leight

Laura Flanders and Friends Crew: Laura Flanders, along with Sabrina Artel, Jeremiah Cothren, Veronica Delgado, Janet Hernandez, Jeannie Hopper, Gina Kim, Sarah Miller, Nat Needham, David Neuman, and Rory O’Conner.

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ACCESSIBILITY - The broadcast edition of this episode is available with closed captioned by clicking here for our YouTube Channel