Ep. 482: Dave Ramsey, Brady Boyd, and Kris “Kdub” Williams

MinistryWatch Podcast

On today’s program, Brady Boyd resigns from New Life Church. Boyd was on staff at Gateway during Robert Morris’ tenure, and Elders now believe he misled the congregation about his knowledge of Morris’s alleged abuse. We’ll have details.

Also, a court ruled that a lawsuit filed against Dave Ramsey can move forward. A former employee who was fired for being pregnant while unmarried is suing Ramsey for religious discrimination. We’ll take a look.

And, the sale of St. Louis FM radio station resulted in a standoff between two giants in Christian radio—K-LOVE and Joy FM Radio—and an almost $9 million price tag.

But first, Christian YouTuber Kris ‘Kdub’ Williams responds to rebuke following revelations of an affair.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Kristen Parker, Shannon Cuthrell, Paul Clolery, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.

A special thanks to The Banner and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.

Until next time, may God bless you.

MANUSCRIPT:

FIRST SEGMENT

Warren:

Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Natasha:

And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.

Warren:

On today’s program, Brady Boyd resigns from New Life Church. Boyd was on staff at Gateway during Robert Morris’ tenure, and Elders now believe he misled the congregation about his knowledge of Morris’s alleged abuse. We’ll have details.

Also, a court ruled that a lawsuit filed against Dave Ramsey can move forward. A former employee who was fired for being pregnant while unmarried is suing Ramsey for religious discrimination. We’ll take a look.

And, the sale of St. Louis FM radio station resulted in a standoff between two giants in Christian radio—K-LOVE and Joy FM Radio—and an almost $9 million price tag.

Natasha:

But first, Christian YouTuber Kris ‘Kdub’ Williams responds to rebuke following revelations of an affair.

Warren:

Williams, a Christian YouTuber who once reached 90K+ subscribers, runs the “All Things Theology” channel under the handle @Kdubtru. His content spans topics like Christian hip hop, church culture insights, and in-depth sermon critiques.

Natasha:

In May, Heritage Grace Community Church in Frisco, Texas, announced that it was disciplining Williams, stating he no longer has their endorsement due to his alleged engagement in an adulterous online relationship, which has caused him to seek a divorce from his wife.

Warren:

Williams has responded to the public criticisms in a video titled “Let’s talk about it…” In the video, he admitted to having an emotional affair and expressed remorse and repentance. He denied rumors of leaving his marriage and adopted son (Micah) to pursue a romantic relationship with another woman.

Natasha:

Moving on,

Brady Boyd, senior pastor of megachurch New Life Church in Colorado Springs, resigned his position last week after it became clear he misled the congregation regarding his knowledge of former Gateway Pastor Robert Morris’s alleged abuse of Cindy Clemishire.

Warren:

Boyd, who served at Gateway Church in the Dallas-Fort Worth area as an associate pastor and elder from 2001 to 2007, said as recently as June 8 that, until last year, he was unaware that Clemishire was 12 when the abuse began.

“I worked alongside him. I had no reason to believe he had any kind of character issues,” Boyd told the congregation, according to ChurchLeaders. “He did confide in me he’d had a moral failure when he was 20 years old. That’s really all the details he shared.”

Natasha:

New Life elder Scott Palmer told the congregation on Sunday, June 22, they believe Boyd’s insistence that he didn’t know Clemishire’s age was untrue. He said it is the primary reason the elders asked Boyd to step down.

Warren:

“Brady had nothing to do with Pastor Morris’ past abuse,” Palmer said, according to The Gazette. “Still, we believe that trust is the currency of leadership. When Brady recently told our congregation, inaccurately, that he was unaware of certain details regarding Morris’ past abuse, trust was broken, and the elders asked Brady to resign.”

Boyd had been pastor of New Life since 2007. The elders acknowledged the leadership and service Boyd has given the church, including eliminating millions of dollars in debt and starting initiatives to serve the Colorado Springs community.

Associate Senior Pastor Daniel Grothe will be Boyd’s successor, a transition church officials say has been in the works for more than a year.

Natasha:

Next, Gateway is one of two large, well-known churches in the U.S. are facing budget shortfalls and financial cuts.

Gateway Church and Grace Community Church have been missing their long-time preachers, with one facing scandal and the other health challenges.

Gateway Church, a megachurch in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, has now warned staff that more layoffs are coming.

According to an email sent to Gateway congregants, tithing income is down significantly.

Warren:

Elders wrote in the email, that an evaluation of the church’s finances revealed “it has become clear that restructuring our staffing is necessary, requiring the tough but necessary step of staff reduction.”

The email did not include details about staffing reductions or church finances, but it did associate its challenges with the church’s former pastor, Robert Morris.

In November 2024, a leaked video revealed that Gateway giving was down by between 35-40%.

Natasha:

Grace Community Church, led by John MacArthur, is also facing reduced giving and the need to reduce its budget.

Warren:

“[F]or the first time in more than a decade, we have faced the effects of a financial recession in our giving this past fiscal year. By God’s grace, he has provided for our needs through some large donations to bring us through the last two years,” MacArthur wrote in a note read to the congregation on Sunday (June 15). “But as we look ahead to the coming fiscal year, starting July 1, our elders recognize the need to reduce our budget at the church by about 20%.”

MacArthur, 85, has struggled with health issues over the past year, with a recent lung procedure once again delaying his return to the pulpit.

Natasha:

Next, McLean Bible Church details plot to oust David Platt.

Warren:

Following the dismissal of the last of several lawsuits filed against McLean Bible Church (MBC) and its lead pastor David Platt, the D.C. megachurch has released a detailed internal report chronicling years of bitter infighting and political polarization.

The report, written by Executive Pastor Wade Burnett and endorsed by the church’s board of elders, outlines how a small but vocal group of dissident members and outside supporters reportedly launched a sustained, coordinated effort to remove Platt and other senior leaders, accusing them of pushing the historically conservative church toward what they called “liberal” or “woke” theology.

Natasha:

According to the report, members Jeremiah and Laura Burke led a group that used a mix of conspiracy theories, social media campaigns, and repeated lawsuits to disrupt church operations and sow distrust among members.

Warren:

Among the group’s claims were that the church planned to sell its flagship Tysons campus to build a mosque and that leaders were secretly funneling money and influence to the Southern Baptist Convention, which the church had partnered with for mission work long before Platt’s tenure (Platt joined as pastor in 2017).

Natasha:

The report includes excerpts from recent emails, the dissent’s stated goal of “taking back the church,” and an online manual on how to “oust” a pastor.

Warren:

In the report, the church alleges the group circulated internal instructions via emails and blogs on how to exploit the church’s constitution to block elder appointments and stage confrontations during church business meetings. According to the report, the group sometimes recorded disruptive scenes that were later posted online as supposed evidence of wrongdoing.

Natasha:

Over four years, the group filed nearly a dozen lawsuits and appeals against the church, its board of elders, and its pastors, seeking to nullify elections and control church membership rolls.

Warren:

Courts repeatedly dismissed the claims or ruled in the church’s favor, and the final lawsuit was thrown out in December 2024. The church’s leadership says the drawn-out litigation consumed thousands of hours in legal fees and staff time that could have supported the church’s ministries.

Despite the turmoil, the report notes that church membership has grown by over 1,400 people since 2020, financial giving remains robust, and votes on leadership appointments have consistently reflected broad support for Platt and other elders, sometimes by margins of over 90%.

Natasha:

Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey can move forward.

I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.

BREAK

SECOND SEGMENT

Natasha:

Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.

Next, the story we promised before the break.

Warren:

A federal appeals court ruled that a lawsuit against Christian financial guru Dave Ramsey by a former employee who was fired for being pregnant while unmarried can go forward.

Caitlin O’Connor sued the Lampo Group, Ramsey’s Franklin, Tennessee-based company, alleging religious discrimination. But the company said O’Connor was fired for violating the company’s ban on premarital sex, and argued that firing was not based on religion.

At issue is a “righteous living” policy at Lampo, better known as Ramsey Solutions, which requires employees to abide by Christian values. Those values, Ramsey’s company has argued, include banning intercourse outside of marriage. However, the company has declined to fire employees who have admitted other sexual conduct in the past, according to court documents.

Natasha:

The legal question in the case is whether O’Connor was fired for breaking a company rule or for being a bad Christian.

Warren:

U.S. District Judge Eli Richardson of the Middle District of Tennessee in ruling in O’Connor’s wrote that companies are allowed to ban conduct — such as accepting bribes — that align with religious values. But the motivation behind rules of conduct and how they are applied matters. If breaking a policy is seen as sinful or failing to abide by Christian conduct, that can be problematic, he wrote.

The O’Connor case has made national headlines, in part because legal filings have revealed Ramsey Solutions’ scrutiny of the sex lives of employees. In one filing, a company executive described firing a newly married employee who became pregnant as company officials believed she had sex before the wedding.

Filed in 2020, the lawsuit has been slowly making its way through the court system for years.

Ramsey Solutions did not respond to a request for comment.

Natasha:

Next, the United States Supreme Court has agreed to hear the appeal of First Choice Women’s Resource Centers, a group of pregnancy resource centers in New Jersey.

Warren:

The case began in November 2023 when New Jersey Attorney General Matthew Platkin demanded that First Choice turn over documents, including information it provides to clients, statements about abortion pill reversal, documents about personnel and outside organizations with which it works, and donor information.

Reluctant to provide such confidential and private information, First Choice, represented by Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), challenged the attorney general’s subpoena in federal court based on the First and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, claiming the subpoena chilled the right to freedom of association and freedom of speech.

Natasha:

The state and First Choice have gone back and forth in court. That’s why ADF filed a petition asking the Supreme Court to review the case to decide the question of whether civil rights plaintiffs need to litigate challenges to state investigations in state court before they can bring federal claims.

“The lower courts have wrongly held that First Choice is relegated to state court to present its constitutional claims,” Hawley asserted. “We are looking forward to presenting our case to the Supreme Court and urging it to hold that First Choice has the same right to federal court as any other civil rights plaintiff.”

Natasha:

Next, news from Calvin University

Warren:

Synod 2025 instructed the Calvin University Board of Trustees to further define “indefinite exceptions to confessional subscription,” and the reasons they may be granted and report back to Synod 2026.

Synod is the annual general assembly of the Christian Reformed Church in North America. It met June 13-19 in Ancaster, Ont.

Natasha:

The phrase “indefinite exceptions to confessional subscription” is a mouthful. What does that mean.

Warren:

It means this: Must a teacher at Calvin College subscribe to every aspect of the CRC’s confession of faith. Or can they conscientiously object to certain aspects and still keep their jobs.

This issue became important last year, when the CRC reaffirmed its commitment to traditional, biblical marriage, and made that a part of its confessional statement.

Perrin Rynders, who will be the board chair of Calvin University in October, said Calvin’s trustees are no longer allowed to submit a gravamen—a formal expression of a difficulty with a confessional doctrine—and must be confessionally aligned. He concluded, “Our job (at Calvin University) is to teach fully in accord with the teachings synod tells us about.”

Natasha:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott signed Senate Bill (SB) 835, also known as “Trey’s Law,” over the weekend. It will take effect on September 1.

Warren:

SB 835 by Texas Senator Angela Paxton bans the use of non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) in civil cases of sexual assault, including child sexual abuse and human trafficking cases, regardless of when the underlying claims occurred.

Trey’s Law is so named for Trey Carlock, a sexual abuse victim of Kanakuk Kamps’ employee Peter Newman. Carlock died by suicide after suffering in silence due to an NDA.

His sister Elizabeth Carlock Phillips has advocated for the bill and testified in support of it before a committee in the Texas Legislature. She shared how her brother endured a decade of abuse, then suffered a different kind of anguish after signing a restrictive NDA that caused him to even question whether he should discuss details of his abuse with his therapist.

Natasha:

Cindy Clemishire, who has publicly shared how Gateway’s founding pastor Robert Morris began abusing her when she was 12 years old, told the committee that Morris offered her a settlement in 2007 with an NDA attached.

Warren:

Clemishire said. “Because I refused to sign that document giving up the right to freely speak about events in my life…almost 43 years after my abuse began, Robert Morris was indicted in Oklahoma on five acts of lewd acts with a child.”

“Because I refused to sign an NDA, my abuser is finally being held accountable for the horrific crimes he committed against me as a child,” Clemishire said, adding that she is now able to share her story and “be the voice for so many people who don’t have the courage to come forward.”

Natasha:

SB 835 unanimously passed both the Texas Senate and House of Representatives

Warren:

The bill originally was only written to apply to child sexual abuse cases, but was expanded after witness testimony showed support for it to apply to sexual assault and human trafficking victims.

On June 10, Missouri Gov. Mike Kehoe signed that state’s bill voiding NDAs signed after August 28, 2025, making them unenforceable in childhood sexual abuse claims.

Until this summer, Tennessee had been the only state to have passed a law — in 2018 — specifically prohibiting NDAs in civil child sexual abuse settlements, rendering them “void and unenforceable.”

Natasha:

Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.

I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.

BREAK

THIRD SEGMENT

Natasha:

Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.

Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.

What’s up first?

Warren:

It’s rare for a noncommercial FM radio station to nearly double in price during a bankruptcy auction. But that’s exactly what happened with KDHX 88.1 in St. Louis, a community radio station at the center of a bidding war between two giants in Christian radio: Educational Media Foundation (EMF), the parent of K-LOVE, and Gateway Creative Broadcasting, owner of JOY FM and Boost Radio.

A federal bankruptcy court approved the $8.75-million sale last month, with Gateway’s winning bid nearly doubling EMF’s initial offer from March.

Natasha:

Although K-LOVE put up $8.5 million in the final round, it lost to Gateway by $250,000.

Warren:

Gateway and EMF’s aggressive bidding may suggest they viewed KDHX as a strategic acquisition in St. Louis, a top-25 media market as ranked by Nielsen. A lot of radio observers also noted that it kept the station under local control and out of the hands of K-Love, which has become a national chain.

Natasha:

Next, an update on giving.

Warren:

Individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations contributed an estimated $592.5 billion to U.S. charities during 2024. New data contained within Giving USA 2025: The Annual Report on Philanthropy for the Year 2024 showed total giving outpaced inflation for the first time in three years, growing 6.3% in current dollars and 3.3% when adjusted for inflation.

Individuals contributed $392.45 billion or 66% of all giving. Foundations chipped in $109.81 billion (19%). Bequests came in at $45.84 billion (8%) followed by corporations (7%). The numbers are rounded off, so the percentages add up to 101%. The overall percentages year-over-year were stable.

Natasha:

Giving amounts to about 2% of GDP, a figure that has held pretty steady over the years.

Warren:

Giving to religion was the largest silo of funding at 23%.

Natasha:

Who did Brittany look at in this week’s Ministry Spotlight?

Warren:

Mission Training International (MTI), based in Palmer Lake, Colorado, now has a 0-Star MinistryWatch rating. It also has a D Transparency grade, because it does not make its Form 990s or audited financials available to the public.

MTI is classified as “a church” with the IRS. It has joined a growing number of ministries that have petitioned the IRS to change their tax status over the last few years. This gives them an exemption from filing a Form 990, although this form includes key information for donors, including annual revenue, salaries of key employees, names of board members and the overall amount ministries spend on key programming.

MinistryWatch takes the position that ministries should file a 990, and gives 0 Stars for financial efficiency to those that do not.

MTI declined to answer questions about its finances.

Natasha:

And, Christina featured some ministries with boots on the ground working in community development.

Warren:

Administer Justice received the Elgin Township service agreement, which included a financial donation to continue providing legal assistance to neighbors who can’t afford it. The ministry is celebrating 25 years this year. Administer Justice has 5 stars, an A transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 100—the highest in each of MinistryWatch’s three categories.

Apartment Life fosters community amongst neighbors in apartment complexes, in part by organizing small-scale events to bring residents together.

Warren ad-lib:

Apartment Life has 5 stars for financial efficiency, and a donor confidence score of 90.

Cedar Ridge Ministries Founding Board Member Harold Henry passed away in April at 95. Cedar Ridge Ministries, started 60 years ago in 1965, runs a home and school for at-risk boys in Maryland, working to meet the mental, emotional, physical, and intellectual needs of each youth. It also produces a broadcast. Cedar Ridge Ministries has 5 stars and an A transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 95.

Natasha:

Warren, any final thoughts before we go?

Warren:

Warren Ad-Lib JUNE 54 of 70 raised.

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Natasha:

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Kristen Parker, Shannon Cuthrell, Paul Clolery, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.

A special thanks to The Banner and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.

I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado.

Warren:

And I’m Warren Smith, in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Natasha:

You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.