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Turner Book Contest – Polygamy Recap

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Manage episode 491746419 series 2531481
Content provided by Rick B. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rick B or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

We’re discussing polygamy in John Turner’s Joseph Smith Biography and giving away a book!

https://youtube.com/live/09QmyE6WweU

Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Welcome, everyone, to Gospel Tangents Live! Sunday, we were live, giving away a copy of John Turner’s acclaimed biography, “The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.” I just wrapped up an amazing interview with Turner. He is a super fun guy. It was certainly an engaging discussion, even touching on unexpected controversies like the gold plates.

I’ll have a specific focus on the often-debated topic of polygamy. I’ll be tackling this subject for an upcoming presentation at Sunstone (University of Utah, Aug 1st) and the John Whitmer Historical Association (Independence, September 20th).

Let’s break down some of the key points discussed, looking at both the “problematic” and “overwhelming” evidence surrounding Joseph Smith’s polygamy.

Problematic Polygamy: Unflattering Episodes and Skeptical Points

There are several challenging aspects of Joseph Smith’s polygamy, as presented in Turner’s book:

  • Questioned Revelations: Turner raises questions about the 1831 revelations regarding polygamy to Native Americans. This is partly based on the reaction of Ezra Booth, an early church critic, who, according to Turner, would have made a “bigger deal about polygamy” if such a revelation had been widely known and accepted at the time.
  • Obscurity of Activities: Joseph Smith took “great pains to obscure his polygamy activities,” which Turner notes makes it difficult to ascertain the full scope and nature of these practices. Polygamy skeptics often don’t acknowledge this challenge.
  • Limited Sexual Relations: Turner believes that sexual relations with plural spouses were limited. I’m working on a probability model to explore how often Joseph and another wife besides Emma should have gotten pregnant. Joseph and Emma had nine children (eight pregnancies), proving Joseph’s fertility. Skeptics often jump to extremes, either no sex or sex “every night,” with “never a happy medium”.
  • Denouncing Adultery: Joseph Smith publicly denounced adulteryon pages 276-277 of Turner’s book, a point skeptics often over emphasize.
  • The Nancy Rigdon Incident: This incident, leading to the infamous “Happiness Letter,” is discussed on pages 277, 286, and 287. Nancy Rigdon rejected Joseph’s marriage proposal in April 1842. John C. Bennett later published the “Happiness Letter”. Turner considers Sidney Rigdon’s denial that Joseph wrotethe letter (as opposed to denying the allegationsthat Joseph propositioned Nancy) a “weak response,” especially since Joseph typically used scribes to write almost everything.
  • The Sarah Pratt and John C. Bennett Incident: Also on pages 286-287, this involves Sarah Pratt (married to Orson Hyde) and John C. Bennett. When Orson Hyde discovered a potential relationship between Sarah and Joseph, he wrote a suicide note. In a subsequent meeting, Orson Pratt (Sarah’s husband) reportedly opposed Joseph Smith in a subsequent meeting due to the issue with Sarah Pratt, a well-documented story according to Turner and most historians.
  • Brigham Young’s Polygamy Rejection: Brigham Young’s plural marriage proposal to Martha Brotherton was rejected, as noted on page 289. This isn’t a flattering portrayal of polygamy. These “problematic” cases often involve both pro-polygamy (like Brigham Young) and anti-polygamy (like John C. Bennett or Sarah Pratt) sources. Their agreement on key events “is pretty strong evidence that something happened”.

Overwhelming Evidence: “Prodigious” Polygamy Points

Despite the problematic aspects, John Turner consider “overwhelming evidence” for Joseph Smith’s involvement in polygamy:

  • Early Sealings:

Joseph Bates Noble performed the sealing of Joseph Smith to Louisa Beaman on April 5, 1841, noted in two different journals. Noble was also plurally sealed to Sarah Alley in 1843, a sealing believed to be performed by Joseph Smith.

Divine Command:

Zina Huntington (page 261) and several other women discussed Joseph Smith being commanded by an “angel with a drawn sword” for Joseph to practice polygamy. There are several accounts of this angel with a drawn sword, not just Zina’s account.

Rapid Succession of Marriages:

Joseph Smith’s marriages often occurred in quick succession:

Zina Huntington was sealed to Joseph Smith in October 1841 while six months pregnant.

Agnes Coolbrith (Don Carlos’s wife) was sealed to Joseph in January 1842.

Lucinda Morgan Harris, widow of William Morgan (involved in the Masonic secrets affair), was sealed to Joseph in February 1842.

Miranda Hyde was sealed to Joseph on April 9, 1842.

Eliza Snow was sealed on June 29, 1842 (the podcast’s anniversary of this event!).

Lucy Decker was sealed to Brigham Young on June 14, 1842.

Secrecy and Deception:

◦ A letter instructed to bring Sarah and Whitney and to “watch out for Emma,” which Turner believes was to keep the meeting secret from Emma, rejecting the skeptic’s idea that it was about protecting Joseph from arrest.

Sarah Whitney (already secretly sealed to Joseph) entered a “sham marriage” to Joseph Kingsbury on April 1, 1843, to get her “off the market” from other suitors9.

Evidence of Sexual Relations:

William Clayton married Margaret Moon (his wife’s sister), and Clayton states they shared a bed.

Lucy Walker married Joseph Smith on May 1, 1843.

Almira Johnson shared a bed with Joseph Smith, according to her father, Benjamin Johnson, who also stated Joseph shared a bed with another wife the previous month, suggesting Joseph was sexually involved with other women.

Emily Partridge, one of the Partridge sisters Emma reportedly chose for Joseph, confirmed sexual relations in later court testimony during the Temple Lot case in the 1880s. Testimony with a penalty of perjury is “hard to dismiss”.

Bostwick said that Hyrum (Joseph’s brother) slept with his spiritual wives in 1844, indicating sexual relations were not exclusive to Joseph.

Sealing Power and D&C 132:

The discussion touched on D&C 132 and the story of Emma and Hyrum’s conversation about it. Skeptics often claim this section is a forgery. How skeptics deal with the implications for sealing power and temple ordinances if D&C 132 (and 110) were forged, as it would invalidate “even monogamous couples together?”

Personal Struggles and Rejections:

Margaret Moon (sealed to William Clayton) regretted her plural marriage, and Sarah Crooks rejected a proposal from Clayton.

Lydia Moon rejected Joseph Smith (later marrying two Clayton brothers).

Emma repeatedly asked Joseph to renounce polygamy, even smashing Flora Woodworth’s watch after finding Eliza Snow’s letters.

Emily Partridge stated Emma wanted her and her sister Eliza to break covenants, leading to their “divorce” from Joseph.

Age Spans and Fertility:

Joseph Smith was married to Melissa Lot (age 19) and Fanny Young (age 56) on the same day (September 20, 1843), highlighting the wide range of ages. Fanny Young and Eliza Snow (who never had children) were likely infertile and thus excluded from his probability models.

Legal Challenges:

William Law was convinced Joseph Smith had slept with Maria Lawrence. Turner believes Joseph Smith actually invented adultery allegations against William Law. Joseph Smith was opposed by William Law, Leonard Soby, and Francis Higbee, leading to the Nauvoo Expositor.

◦ Emma famously denounced polygamy in the Relief Society and the Nauvoo Neighbor.

◦ Joseph Smith excommunicated William Law, Jane Law, Wilson Law, and Foster for their opposition.

◦ In 1844, Joseph Smith was indicted on adultery charges and would have faced trial had he not died.

Some skeptics argue Joseph didn’t have sex with his plural wives even if sealed. These testimonies suggest otherwise.

Podcast Happenings and Community Notes

The episode was a live stream, with listeners checking in from North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Georgia. We celebrated Grant Lloyd from Martin, Georgia, who won a copy of John Turner’s book!

In other news, our host is working on editing an interview with Gary Weber of the Strangite Church. I’m also working on a video tour with Joseph Soderberg of old Mormon churches in Ogden and Salt Lake, including President Hinckley’s church, the unofficial ward historian, highlighting a time capsule from 1909.

Comments and questions?

Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

  continue reading

391 episodes

Artwork
iconShare
 
Manage episode 491746419 series 2531481
Content provided by Rick B. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rick B or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

We’re discussing polygamy in John Turner’s Joseph Smith Biography and giving away a book!

https://youtube.com/live/09QmyE6WweU

Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

Welcome, everyone, to Gospel Tangents Live! Sunday, we were live, giving away a copy of John Turner’s acclaimed biography, “The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.” I just wrapped up an amazing interview with Turner. He is a super fun guy. It was certainly an engaging discussion, even touching on unexpected controversies like the gold plates.

I’ll have a specific focus on the often-debated topic of polygamy. I’ll be tackling this subject for an upcoming presentation at Sunstone (University of Utah, Aug 1st) and the John Whitmer Historical Association (Independence, September 20th).

Let’s break down some of the key points discussed, looking at both the “problematic” and “overwhelming” evidence surrounding Joseph Smith’s polygamy.

Problematic Polygamy: Unflattering Episodes and Skeptical Points

There are several challenging aspects of Joseph Smith’s polygamy, as presented in Turner’s book:

  • Questioned Revelations: Turner raises questions about the 1831 revelations regarding polygamy to Native Americans. This is partly based on the reaction of Ezra Booth, an early church critic, who, according to Turner, would have made a “bigger deal about polygamy” if such a revelation had been widely known and accepted at the time.
  • Obscurity of Activities: Joseph Smith took “great pains to obscure his polygamy activities,” which Turner notes makes it difficult to ascertain the full scope and nature of these practices. Polygamy skeptics often don’t acknowledge this challenge.
  • Limited Sexual Relations: Turner believes that sexual relations with plural spouses were limited. I’m working on a probability model to explore how often Joseph and another wife besides Emma should have gotten pregnant. Joseph and Emma had nine children (eight pregnancies), proving Joseph’s fertility. Skeptics often jump to extremes, either no sex or sex “every night,” with “never a happy medium”.
  • Denouncing Adultery: Joseph Smith publicly denounced adulteryon pages 276-277 of Turner’s book, a point skeptics often over emphasize.
  • The Nancy Rigdon Incident: This incident, leading to the infamous “Happiness Letter,” is discussed on pages 277, 286, and 287. Nancy Rigdon rejected Joseph’s marriage proposal in April 1842. John C. Bennett later published the “Happiness Letter”. Turner considers Sidney Rigdon’s denial that Joseph wrotethe letter (as opposed to denying the allegationsthat Joseph propositioned Nancy) a “weak response,” especially since Joseph typically used scribes to write almost everything.
  • The Sarah Pratt and John C. Bennett Incident: Also on pages 286-287, this involves Sarah Pratt (married to Orson Hyde) and John C. Bennett. When Orson Hyde discovered a potential relationship between Sarah and Joseph, he wrote a suicide note. In a subsequent meeting, Orson Pratt (Sarah’s husband) reportedly opposed Joseph Smith in a subsequent meeting due to the issue with Sarah Pratt, a well-documented story according to Turner and most historians.
  • Brigham Young’s Polygamy Rejection: Brigham Young’s plural marriage proposal to Martha Brotherton was rejected, as noted on page 289. This isn’t a flattering portrayal of polygamy. These “problematic” cases often involve both pro-polygamy (like Brigham Young) and anti-polygamy (like John C. Bennett or Sarah Pratt) sources. Their agreement on key events “is pretty strong evidence that something happened”.

Overwhelming Evidence: “Prodigious” Polygamy Points

Despite the problematic aspects, John Turner consider “overwhelming evidence” for Joseph Smith’s involvement in polygamy:

  • Early Sealings:

Joseph Bates Noble performed the sealing of Joseph Smith to Louisa Beaman on April 5, 1841, noted in two different journals. Noble was also plurally sealed to Sarah Alley in 1843, a sealing believed to be performed by Joseph Smith.

Divine Command:

Zina Huntington (page 261) and several other women discussed Joseph Smith being commanded by an “angel with a drawn sword” for Joseph to practice polygamy. There are several accounts of this angel with a drawn sword, not just Zina’s account.

Rapid Succession of Marriages:

Joseph Smith’s marriages often occurred in quick succession:

Zina Huntington was sealed to Joseph Smith in October 1841 while six months pregnant.

Agnes Coolbrith (Don Carlos’s wife) was sealed to Joseph in January 1842.

Lucinda Morgan Harris, widow of William Morgan (involved in the Masonic secrets affair), was sealed to Joseph in February 1842.

Miranda Hyde was sealed to Joseph on April 9, 1842.

Eliza Snow was sealed on June 29, 1842 (the podcast’s anniversary of this event!).

Lucy Decker was sealed to Brigham Young on June 14, 1842.

Secrecy and Deception:

◦ A letter instructed to bring Sarah and Whitney and to “watch out for Emma,” which Turner believes was to keep the meeting secret from Emma, rejecting the skeptic’s idea that it was about protecting Joseph from arrest.

Sarah Whitney (already secretly sealed to Joseph) entered a “sham marriage” to Joseph Kingsbury on April 1, 1843, to get her “off the market” from other suitors9.

Evidence of Sexual Relations:

William Clayton married Margaret Moon (his wife’s sister), and Clayton states they shared a bed.

Lucy Walker married Joseph Smith on May 1, 1843.

Almira Johnson shared a bed with Joseph Smith, according to her father, Benjamin Johnson, who also stated Joseph shared a bed with another wife the previous month, suggesting Joseph was sexually involved with other women.

Emily Partridge, one of the Partridge sisters Emma reportedly chose for Joseph, confirmed sexual relations in later court testimony during the Temple Lot case in the 1880s. Testimony with a penalty of perjury is “hard to dismiss”.

Bostwick said that Hyrum (Joseph’s brother) slept with his spiritual wives in 1844, indicating sexual relations were not exclusive to Joseph.

Sealing Power and D&C 132:

The discussion touched on D&C 132 and the story of Emma and Hyrum’s conversation about it. Skeptics often claim this section is a forgery. How skeptics deal with the implications for sealing power and temple ordinances if D&C 132 (and 110) were forged, as it would invalidate “even monogamous couples together?”

Personal Struggles and Rejections:

Margaret Moon (sealed to William Clayton) regretted her plural marriage, and Sarah Crooks rejected a proposal from Clayton.

Lydia Moon rejected Joseph Smith (later marrying two Clayton brothers).

Emma repeatedly asked Joseph to renounce polygamy, even smashing Flora Woodworth’s watch after finding Eliza Snow’s letters.

Emily Partridge stated Emma wanted her and her sister Eliza to break covenants, leading to their “divorce” from Joseph.

Age Spans and Fertility:

Joseph Smith was married to Melissa Lot (age 19) and Fanny Young (age 56) on the same day (September 20, 1843), highlighting the wide range of ages. Fanny Young and Eliza Snow (who never had children) were likely infertile and thus excluded from his probability models.

Legal Challenges:

William Law was convinced Joseph Smith had slept with Maria Lawrence. Turner believes Joseph Smith actually invented adultery allegations against William Law. Joseph Smith was opposed by William Law, Leonard Soby, and Francis Higbee, leading to the Nauvoo Expositor.

◦ Emma famously denounced polygamy in the Relief Society and the Nauvoo Neighbor.

◦ Joseph Smith excommunicated William Law, Jane Law, Wilson Law, and Foster for their opposition.

◦ In 1844, Joseph Smith was indicted on adultery charges and would have faced trial had he not died.

Some skeptics argue Joseph didn’t have sex with his plural wives even if sealed. These testimonies suggest otherwise.

Podcast Happenings and Community Notes

The episode was a live stream, with listeners checking in from North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Georgia. We celebrated Grant Lloyd from Martin, Georgia, who won a copy of John Turner’s book!

In other news, our host is working on editing an interview with Gary Weber of the Strangite Church. I’m also working on a video tour with Joseph Soderberg of old Mormon churches in Ogden and Salt Lake, including President Hinckley’s church, the unofficial ward historian, highlighting a time capsule from 1909.

Comments and questions?

Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

  continue reading

391 episodes

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