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8th Layer Insights

Perry Carpenter | N2K Networks

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Get ready for a deep dive into what cybersecurity professionals often refer to as the "8th Layer" of security: HUMANS. Welcome to 8th Layer Insights (8Li). This podcast is a multidisciplinary exploration into how the complexities of human nature affect security and risk. Author, security researcher, and behavior science enthusiast Perry Carpenter taps experts for their insights and illumination. Topics include cybersecurity, psychology, behavior science, communication, leadership, and more.
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Hey friends! Here's issue 2 of Deceptive Minds: a newsletter about how we are fooled, how we fool ourselves, and what we can do about it. 🔥 Since starting this newsletter last week, we're already closing in on 3,000 subscribers to the print edition! 🔥 Huge thanks to everyone who's jumped in early! This week, I'm diving into what I call the “artifac…
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 Hey listeners, Perry Carpenter here. Yeah, it's been a while since I've posted this feed, but I've got something exciting that I think you'll be interested in. It's the audio version of a newsletter that I recently started. The newsletter is called Deceptive Minds, and it's all about how we are fooled, how we fool ourselves, and what we can do abo…
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Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of 2024. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Welcome back to the show that keeps you informed on all things artificial intelligence and natural nonsense. In our holiday epis…
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Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Welcome back to the show that keeps you informed on all things artificial intelligence and natural nonsense. Warning: today'…
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Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Welcome back to The FAIK Files--- the show about artificial intelligence and natural nonsense! In this week's episode: Mason…
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Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Welcome back to The FAIK Files— the show about artificial intelligence and natural nonsense! In this week’s episode: Mason h…
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Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Happy FAIKs-giving everyone! Welcome to the newly renovated and relaunched FAIK Files podcast. On this week's episode, Perry…
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This is Part Three of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Per…
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This is Part Two of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry…
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This is Part One of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry…
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In this conversation, Perry sits down with Dr. Bilyana Lilly to discuss her new book Digital Mindhunters (Coming Oct 30) and the intersection of cybersecurity, disinformation, and AI. She describes the narrative structure of her book, navigating a world of cyber threats and influence operations, and the evolving landscape of disinformation with AI …
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In this episode, Perry catches-up with Stephanie (Snow) & JC Carruthers. They talk about social engineering, the DEFCON Social Engineering Community / Village, and share their favorite (and most embarrassing) social engineering stories. Perry also gives a quick update on his recent exploits entering an AI chatbot into the Social Engineering Village…
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On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Ed Skoudis to discuss the simplicity and complexities of cybersecurity ethics. Ed's new book is The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity. Guest: Ed Skoudis (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website) Books and References: The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity, by Paul J. Maurer and Ed Skoud…
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On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Jon Gillham. Jon is the founder and CEO of Originality.ai -- an AI content detection platform designed to help website owners, content marketers, writers and publishers hit 'publish' with integrity in the world of generative AI. In this interview, we get the lowdown on how AI content detection works, wha…
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On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with investigative journalist, author, and podcaster, Geoff White. They discuss Geoff's new book, "Rinsed: From Cartels to Crypto: How the Tech Industry Washes Money for the World's Deadliest Crooks", the state of global cybercrime, and (everybody's favorite topic) artificial intelligence. Guest: Geoff White …
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In this episode, Perry sits down with award winning cybersecurity author, George Finney to discuss his recent book, Project Zero Trust. This is a broad discussion that hits on the concepts of Zero Trust, George's approach to writing the book, his passion for storytelling, and much more. Guest: George Finney (LinkedIn) (Website) Books and References…
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In this episode Perry Carpenter sits down with Rachel Tobac to debrief after her recent KB4-CON session, "How I'd Hack You Live" where she... well... hacked Perry live. Perry and Rachel explore how age-old deception techniques are being revamped for the digital age. The discussion spans the future of social engineering, the increasing role of AI in…
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On this episode Perry sits down with Dr. Matthew Canham to explore ways in which AI can be weaponized against us, and how age old social engineering tactics can be used to trick large language models. Guest: Dr. Matthew Canham (LinkedIn) (Website) Books and References (Books are Amazon Associate Links and help support the show): Cognitive Security …
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On this episode Perry sits down with Jeremy Treadwell, a people-first technologist and futurist, to get the lowdown on how a futurist approaches the world. Guest: Jeremy Treadwell (LinkedIn) (Twitter) Books and References (Books are Amazon Associate Links and help support the show): YouTube Video: What UX/UI Taught Me about Improving Security Aware…
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Welcome to season 5 of 8th Layer Insights! To celebrate Valentine's Day, Perry sits down with Emmy winning reporter Kerry Tomlinson to talk about the time she turned the tables on a romance scammer. Guest: Kerry Tomlinson (LinkedIn) (Website) (YouTube) Books and References: YouTube video: Inside a romance scam: how to make a catfisher sing YouTube …
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On this episode, Perry celebrates the one year birthday of ChatGPT by taking a look at AI from technological, philosophical, and folkloric perspectives. We see how AI was formed based on human words and works, and how it can now shape the future of human legend and belief. Guests: Brandon Karpf, Vice President at N2K Networks (LinkedIn) (Website) D…
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Let's face it. Most of us have a love/hate relationship with technology and technological advances. We dream about the new thing... but when it arrives, we are usually a little disappointed. Many of us also lament the constant erosion of privacy, the changes in social norms, and more. And, little-by-little, we allow those aspects of new technology …
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On today's show, Perry sits down with Rick Howard to discuss Rick's new book and the concept of "First Principles" as they apply in the domain of cybersecurity. Rick Howard is the CSO of N2K and the Chief Analyst, and Senior Fellow at the N2K Cyber, formerly CyberWire. His past lives include CSO at Palo Alto Networks, CISO at TASC, the GM at Verisi…
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If you’ve been listening to this show for a while, you’ll know that we’ve touched on the topic of Open Source Intelligence (otherwise known as OSINT) several times. It is an area of information security that penetration testing that’s been getting quite a bit of attention over the past several years. When you think about the digital world we live i…
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Listen in as Perry Carpenter & Dr. Jessica Barker present their joint session, "Conversational Security Awareness" at the SANS Managing Human Risk Summit. ... and stay tuned after the presentation for a quick conversation between Perry, Jessica, and Lance Spitzner (SANS) as they discuss themes from this year's event. Guests: Dr. Jessica Barker (Lin…
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On today's show, Perry sits down with Jayson E. Street to discuss his unique blend of social engineering, physical penetration testing, and security awareness. Jayson refers to this as being trained by a simulated adversary. At the heart of Jayson's method is intense boldness in his approach to social engineering and penetration testing coupled wit…
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Hey all! I'm at BlackHat and Defcon this week. If you're there, track me down. I'd love to meet you! This week's episode is an encore of one of my favorites. My interview with James Linton (a.k.a. The Email Prankster). In 2017, James went on a virtual joyride exploiting the ways that people interact with emails. One of the most interesting things a…
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There has been a lot of buzz for the past few years about the benefits and importance of establishing security champions programs. These are groups of people in your organization who become vital, responsible, and proactive contributing evangelists to the security culture of your organization. I often refer to them as "culture carriers." And, while…
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On this episode, Perry sits down with Chad Peterson, Managing Director at NetSPI, to discuss the importance of penetration testing. We touch on aspects of social engineering, discussing complex security issues with Boards of Directors, the prevalence of Ransomware, and some of the unique challenges facing the healthcare industry. Guest: Chad Peters…
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On this episode, what cybersecurity professionals need to understand about how social signaling and incentives really work. Today's episode features a conversation with Uri Gneezy. In the field of cybersecurity, we are very interested in identifying proactive and positive ways to encourage the behavior we want. That's where Uri comes in. Uri is a w…
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In this episode, Perry Carpenter sits down with renowned mentalist and skeptic, Banachek. Banachek (Steve Shaw) grew up with a fascination in magic and a frustration with psychic frauds. As a teenager, he contacted magician and skeptic, James “The Amazing” Randi and ended up working with Randi on a special initiative known as Project Alpha, which s…
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This week's episode is a late Star Wars ("May the 4th Be With You") celebration. We check out a couple interesting articles about security-related lessons embedded in the Star Wars movies, and Perry sits down with Adam Shostack, author of the new book, Threats: What Every Engineer Should Learn From Star Wars to discuss threat modeling principles us…
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Welcome to season 4, episode 1 of 8th Layer Insights! On this episode, Perry speaks with Josiah Dykstra (Senior Fellow, Office of Innovation at the National Security Agency) about the new book he co-authored with Eugene Spafford and Leigh Metcalf. The book is titled Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions: Avoiding the Hazards and Pitfalls that Dera…
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For the last episode of season 3, I thought we'd talk about something that's been in the news quite a lot recently: Authentication and Password Managers. As security professionals, we've decried the password for decades. Multifactor authentication (MFA) has started to gain popularity... but not without its own issues. Security leaders and tech team…
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Hey all! An announcement and something special! First, the announcement: Here's your chance to participate in the final episode of 8Li season 3. If you’ve got a question or comment that you’d like me to try to answer or respond to, leave a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/8Li. Frankly, that would make it more engaging than if I just read …
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On this episode, Perry speaks with Chris Cochran and Ron Eddings. Chris and Ron started the Hacker Valley Studio Podcast back in June of 2019 with the goal of exploring the human condition to inspire peak performance in cybersecurity. The podcast is about Chris and Ron’s quest to find inspirational stories and knowledge to elevate themselves and th…
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On this episode, Perry sits down with Marta L. Tellado, President and CEO at Consumer Reports, to discuss the digital moment we are in and what that means for consumers and the marketplace: the risks, dangers, traps… and also the places and paths that can lead to progress. They also discuss Marta's new book, Buyer Aware: Harnessing Our Consumer Pow…
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Get ready for those 'fun' holiday dinner conversations with friends and family. You know the ones... In the spirit of the holidays, I thought we'd revisit Season 1, Episode 2. This is an episode about the battle for truth. As disinformation, misinformation, malinformation, and conspiracy theories seem to be hitting epidemic levels, how can we help …
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There is something about a good spy story that seems to really resonate with people in the cybersecurity world. We love watching the moves and the counter moves, and the sneaking around, and the social engineering, and hacking, and all of the gadgets and toys, and car chases, and fights and double crosses and triple crosses. Yeah, you get the point…
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For this week, we are revisiting a previous episode that first aired as Season 1 Episode 10. In this episode, we discuss the concept of security culture -- specifically, the difficulty that security leaders have in defining what a security culture actually is. Luckily, we can draw on learnings from organizational culture management and culture tran…
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On this episode, Perry sits down with Jenny Radcliffe (a.k.a. The People Hacker). Jenny is a well-known speaker, podcaster, professional social engineer, and physical penetration tester… in other words, she’s a social engineer who specializes not only in tricking people into doing things they shouldn’t do… but she also specializes getting into plac…
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Over the past few years, there's been a lot of talk about the value of understanding Open Source Intelligence (OSINT). But, even with so much talk, relatively few cybersecurity professionals have had the time to take a deep dive into the topic. In this episode, Perry sits down with social engineer, OSINT investigator, and member of the OSINT Curiou…
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In this episode, Perry talks about the value of storytelling and provides 7 tips for anyone who faces the fear associated with staring at a blank screen, wondering how they can begin to create fresh content. This is adapted from a presentation Perry recently gave at the 2022 SANS Security Awareness Summit. Books & Resources: Overview of "The Iron T…
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In this episode, Perry sits down with Mikko Hyppönen for a wide ranging discussion about the history, current state, and future of cybersecurity. We also discuss Mikko's new book, the title of which is derived from Hyppönen's Law: If It's Smart, It's Vulnerable. Guest: Mikko Hyppönen (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Web) Books & Resources: If It's Smart, It's…
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This is a follow-up to Season 2, episode 4 –Bridging the Cyber Skills Gap. Many listeners contacted me saying that they loved the episode, but wished that I’d put more focus on people trying to find a career in cybersecurity later in life. So, consider this episode a Bridging the Cyber Skills Gap Part 2. We’ll hear the stories of several people who…
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You've probably been hearing the term 'mindfulness' a lot these days. And for good reason. We humans seem to be busier and more stressed out than ever before, and mindfulness practices seem to offer positive benefit. But how does mindfulness intersect with cybersecurity? What practices can we learn and promote to decrease human risk in our organiza…
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On this bonus episode, Perry sits down with physical penetration tester, lock picking guru, and Board Member of The Open Organization of Lockpickers (TOOOL), Deviant Ollam. They discuss lockpicking, physical penetration testing, locksport, and the ethics of teaching these skills. Guest: Deviant Ollam (Twitter) (YouTube) (Website) Books & Resources:…
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On this bonus episode, Perry sits down with investigative journalist, speaker, podcaster, and author, Geoff White to talk about his path into investigative journalism, podcasting, and his new book, "The Lazarus Heist: From Hollywood to High Finance: Inside North Korea's Global Cyber War." Guest: Geoff White (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website) Books & Po…
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If you could interview a password, what questions would you ask? Today, May 5th, 2022 is World Password Day. World Password Day was first established in 2013 and is celebrated each year on the 1st Thursday in May. To celebrate, I thought it would be fun to share an excerpt of a previous episode ("Security is Alive") where I interviewed multiple sec…
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