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The BOP is a podcast for photographers who believe deep down in their soul that your business is made for MORE. Each episode, photographer and educator Rob Greene sits down for candid conversations with business owners inside and outside the photography industry, with 3 main objectives:(1) To ANCHOR you in WHY you do what you do.(2) To INSPIRE you with a vision for what COULD BE in your business.(3) To ACTIVATE you INSIDE your business with tangible action steps you can implement TODAY.Known ...
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Damn Good Interior Designer

Cheryl Kees Clendenon and Liz Lapan

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Join Cheryl Kees Clendenon and Liz Lapan, the dynamic duo behind the visionary and integrator balancing all the moving parts of a full service interior design firm in their no-nonsense and thought-provoking podcast, the Damn Good Designer. Each episode is full of damn good truths and real talk as they share invaluable insights on how to run and build a successful business while challenging the norms, the industry, each other and YOU. Emphasizing a business-savvy approach, Cheryl and Liz take ...
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This series will document KUDZUKIAN’s transition from a home-based business to its new 4,000 square-foot studio space at Agricenter Memphis. It will provide a transparent and honest look at a small African-American owned media company as it levels up its capabilities and clientele -- with all the highs and lows in between. Business development coach Michael Synk will “ride-along” with KUDZUKIAN Founder and CEO Larry T. Robinson Sr. as the fledgling media company transitions into a larger stu ...
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Public relations isn’t just about getting published—it’s about what you do after the feature goes live. We thrilled to welcome our special guest who we have been working with for over a year. Alex Abramian, founder of The PR Collaborative, talks with us about the evolving landscape of PR for interior designers. With years of experience as a writer …
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Another Asked & Answered segment today and our very own Liz going solo! One of the biggest balancing acts designers face is pairing creativity with structure. Your vision is what SELLS the client, but your process is what DELIVERS on that promise. Clients remember the feeling, not the portal or the lists or the emails—but having strong systems behi…
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We believe one of the most underrated parts of a client journey is the intake process. This isn’t about a boring list of preferences like if they prefer black over blue or which kitchen they like best. Instead, it's about asking the right questions to uncover how clients live, communicate, and make decisions. Our unique and customized client questi…
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There’s no one right way to run a design business—but there is often a better way. This is not to say if something is working for you—great. Keep going. But if you're stuck or wondering why the same problems keep popping up? It might be time to challenge the models you’re using. How can you challenge the traditional business models, such as cost pl…
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Social proof from your clients is important for building trust and credibility in a business. Reviews and testimonials from happy clients, while also being mindful of how and when, can be used to showcase the success and unique offerings of your business. This not only helps attract the right clients, but also addresses common pain points and frequ…
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You can't lead clients from survival mode---well you can, but not well and not for extended periods of time. how How you feel directly impacts how you lead, sell, and scale. The mindset shift I have to use is to keep my business steady is the "attitude of gratitude." This "Asked and Answered" topic this week is slightly more personal but a question…
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This week we are answering questions from our audience--first up is one of my FAVORITE hills to die on and what I consider one of the most damaging things you can do for your business. It is not a smart business practice to sell blocks of time as a designer because this is not an effective way to market and value creative brilliance. Selling based …
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Sometimes the simplest of truths is what is going to move the needle and this begins with understanding who you are and your own weaknesses. We all have them right?? If you have a team, or even if you are a solopreneur, you are still consistently working with others and there are always going to be challenges of working together. However, being abl…
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Your marketing dollars are important. There are many elements to successful marketing and it starts with becoming part of the DNA of your business. This week we met with Denise Grothouse, the founder and CEO of Perfect Six Marketing, a company specializing in marketing strategies for the kitchen and bath design industry. In this episode we discuss …
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Optics matter. Client's trusting you know how to manage money--matters. Understanding there is no free lunch--matters. Here is the drum roll take away. It takes money to make money. Ta da! Professional designers understand that it costs money to travel to market to learn about the products they specify ( and usually sell for a profit) -- or how imp…
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I am PASSIONATE--and if you have gotten my weekly newsletter the past two weeks then you would know all those years ago in college my young professor's advice stuck. So we are re-releasing one of our most popular episodes and trying to reignite the flame in those that may feel it dwindling! Are you giving clients the yearning for more? Showing pass…
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Happy New Year! What better way to start off the year than with my top 5 marketing strategies for small business owners grow their businesses. Marketing is a mindset and not just an activity, and it takes time and effort to see results. This is not simply a standalone entity, it is ingrained in the essence of any business. Every interaction, from t…
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The process of procurement in a busy design firm is NO joke. You are not running popsicle stand, you are running a firm with various moving parts and you have to be able to have a way to track what is coming and going through your business. This is where checks and balances come into play to avoid costly mistakes and keep the firm running smoothly.…
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Cheryl is going solo this week while Liz takes a well-deserved little vacation. Cheryl is discussing managing client expectations and making sure you are not keeping them in the dark--you need them to trust the process! There is a level of professionalism that comes with the importance of managing clients' expectations during their project. Setting…
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How can you be team player without giving up your own rights? Working with contractors can be a tricky relationship when they want you to stay in your lane--BUT it doesn't have to be. Creating a team approach with positioning in your marketing, the copy that you use, the verbiage that you talk about, and how you talk about it with other people, all…
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Who doesn't love an install day!? Sure, it can be hectic and exhausting but this is where you get to see the fruit of your labor come together. Cheryl went solo this week talking about In Detail's top tips for a successful install day! Having a team in place for installation that understands the logistics and are able to convey it to your movers AN…
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How important is project management in interior design? Bottom line: Very. Because it saves your client money in the long run! This starts with having a clear and cogent scope of work to be able to refer back to when issues arise within the project. Project management, how it is handled and why you do it can make or break a project. This means bein…
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Have you ever stopped to think where your time is spent vs your energy output? The truth is we could be sabotaging ourselves and our capacity to work if we are not managing our energy. We all have relentless demands and unexpected challenges we deal with on the daily and we all tend to slip into negative emotions—the fight-or-flight mode—often mult…
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This week was a bit of a whirlwind coming home from High Point! We had the pleasure of having Jude Charles as a guest and we got to meet in person while we were attending Market. Jude Charles is a filmmaker and for over 18 years and has been producing documentaries for entrepreneurs. He has produced stories for Google, Steve Harvey, LuAnn Nigara, R…
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How good of a partner are you to your vendors? Strong vendor relationships are a secret to success! Many designers do not think about their vendors until there is a problem. This approach does not allow to maximize the partnership. Getting to know your reps, your customer service people, and marketing team can enhance your bottom line and the custo…
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Cheryl and Liz are exploring five key roadblocks to bringing a new client on board and signing that contract. By showing your expertise to the client earlier than later, you remove many difficulties from the sale itself and you set yourself up for being able to deliver your best work. You cannot rely on the lead to peruse every detail of your websi…
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Are your clients receiving and perceiving what you say to them properly? What you say, how you say it, and why you say it is vital to communicate the value and professionalism your firm offers through strategic and consistent positioning. This means understanding and committing to your target audience, being aware of how you position your firm, and…
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If you have known me for a while you may have heard my "Top 12 Truths for Being a Shopkeep" and one of my faves that I stand by is "Retail is not for sissies!" And I know that our special guest, Christina Van Blake of Home Design Dover feels the exact same way. Christina, or as some call her Christi, is the own and prominent designer serving the Ma…
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Listen up folks--we all have a love-hate relationship with social media right? Yes we do! It is a changing animal, and if you don't keep up with it you may be missing out on amazing leads because you are not staying relevant in our industry. Liz is off handling projects and Cheryl seized the opportunity to speak with a pro podcaster and social medi…
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What should you do when a client starts sending you items to evaluate? In this episode we discuss handling changes that the client initiates in design projects and the importance of respectfully evaluating items that the client provides to ensure they fit the design plan and overall project goals. We recently had a similar client experience (yes, w…
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What is the #1 marketing asset of your business? Your website! It is a living breathing entity of our firm. Join us with our special guest Victoria Marcouillier, owner of Brandwell and host of the Branding Business School podcast, as we discuss the importance of branding, the value of marketing throughout the client relationship lifecycle why your …
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It is never too late to start over. This week we have a wonderful special guest from New York! I have known and coached Diane Bianchini of Dream Interiors NY for a number of year and she is here to talk with us this week about her path to becoming a designer with a background in Aeronautical engineering--talk about weathering the seasons of change …
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Are you hiring too late? What I have found is that most designers do not hire soon enough! Hiring a team challenges and helps elevate your business to a level where sustainable growth and scalability are achievable. When we look to hire we are looking to cater to some bonus projects and also the way that our current team is developing in terms upwa…
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Are you facing new challenges or going through a season of change? We are--yes we are in the trenches with you, really! Weathering the seasons of change is unpredictable and it is in these moments where we find out how resilient and adaptable we are. If you are not not prepared, then one of these events such as maternity leave, death in the family …
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Are you ready to dream so big it makes your butt pucker? Unlock the secrets to building a thriving, people-focused photography business in our Season 2 finale of The Bop podcast. This episode is packed with inspiration and actionable insights, starting with the announcement of my brand-new Instagram account – @robgreene.tv – where I'm giving a way …
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The legal aspects of a business are super important to me as a business owner. We will always face project delays, especially in the last couple years, and we must be thinking about how we can protect ourselves. In my world, clients have to recognize the delays in executing are unrelated to our performance and we must get new bids/pricing or get th…
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Cheryl is passionate about what she does and loves seeing other small business owners and creative entrepreneurs succeed. We often get to hear success stories and want to be able to share this with others while also focusing on the unique market, business and experience other designers have around the country. This week we are starting a "DESIGNER …
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We're trying something new this week and Cheryl is in the hot seat while Liz interviews her about her process for initial consultations, also known as "The Cheryl Show." Cheryl goal is simply to get to know the potential clients and see if her firm can help them. She doesn't worry about being overly prepared for these meetings because they are orga…
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Are your clients dragging their feet, hemming and hawing after the presentation and maybe even ghosting you--what do you do? In this episode we discuss five considerations when a client is not making decisions and how to handle them. Designers need to ask themselves certain questions to help determine exactly where the problem lies and if the indec…
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Our firm, In Detail Interiors, gets a lot of leads and I am grateful for every single one of them. However, that doesn't mean we take on every job of every size and every type--and neither can you. You must have guidelines (NOT A SCRIPT PLEASE RUN FROM THOSE WHO WANT YOU TO HAVE A SCRIPT! ) on how you determine what will work for your set up of you…
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Going to High Point Market and learning about what you sell is the BEST investment you can make for your business! After 29 markets Cheryl had the honor of talking with Tammy Nagem, CEO of High Point Market authority, to tell you why market is still one of the best business investments you can make. Learn how Tammy and her team help optimize the ex…
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Successful businesses, do not operate on a basis of having to trick people--so why are businesses doing this? Fear. We have to consider where we are as an industry if we are so fearful of clients finding something out about the names of our vendors or comparison shopping. Interior design is about creativity, expertise, and creating unique spaces th…
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We are not holding back this week - the term "red flag" is banned! (at least in my book) Stop the mob mentality that a client is a "red flag" for asking questions about your contract or process. Your mindset must shift from "run, run, get out now!" to "they do not know, what they do not know". You must be educating your client and positioning your …
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It is a choice to be professional. One you make to uphold professional standards and practice in such a way that you are advancing your firm. No one is going to do it. In order to advance as a strong contender in the marketplace and someone that is respected and viewed as a serious business owner, then you must be aware of what is happening in the …
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Liz and I have decided that the holidays need to be further spread apart. How do we talk to Congress about making that happen? Just kidding! We don’t need to go down that rabbit hole--we are already busy enough. This is about being in control and how we are going to respond to certain situations that are going to come up in your business. What acti…
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Are you giving clients the yearning for more? Showing passion is one of the most important things you can do as a business to demonstrate to your clients what it is that you are bringing to the table. Passion for my work is why I get up in the morning and being excited about what the day holds---and have an eagerness to jump into it. It’s not alway…
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Transform your entrepreneurial dreams into a profitable reality as I recount the pivotal shift from my desk-bound day job to a flourishing photography venture in the concluding part of our mini-series, "Lessons from a Day Job." Embrace the art of annual budgeting and learn how it can be your secret weapon for financial stability and long-term succe…
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Have you ever gotten to a prime season for your business (like fall mini sessions) and thought "if only I had better planned for this!" Moreover, have you ever wondered why some photographers seem to effortlessly glide past the competition? The secret might just be in their advanced marketing game—and that's exactly what we're unpacking today. As I…
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Do you feel "stuck" at a Day Job, when you'd rather be running your own business? Fear not, friend! I was in your shoes for years, and looking back, I'm amazed at how much those jobs prepared me for the things I'm doing now! In this first of a 3-part series called "Lessons from a Day Job," I'll be sharing the power of planning your calendar each De…
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Cheryl the “easy-chair” psychologist is back today and we are going to throw a little reverse psychology at you! Have you ever thought about throwing all the negatives on the table to reinforce positive thoughts in your client? Whoa--I know it seems a little crazy. BUT disarming people with an approach that is not expected can work beautifully, if …
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Are you really considering where the interior design industry (and market) are going today? How you got started in this business is NOT what is going to keep you relevant. This is one of the fastest growing and ever-changing industries out there and we as business owners must be thinking about and asking your clients for feedback. Feedback should b…
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Ever wondered about the world of photography education and its potential for passive income? Prepare to have your curiosity piqued as we traverse this fascinating landscape with Laylee Emadi, the visionary behind the Creative Educator Conference!. We'll equip you with the skills and mindset needed for this exciting venture, tackle the realities of …
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Today's episode is about the cost of doing business. Optics matter. Client's trusting you know how to manage money--matters. Understanding there is no free lunch--matters. Here is the drum roll take away. It takes money to make money. Ta da! Professional designers understand that it costs money to travel to market to learn about the products they s…
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Why are selling products a win? Cheryl and Liz delve into the balance between selling design services and products and unveil key strategies for successful navigation of the procurement process. Selling product is not for the faint of heart - you will face challenges in managing inventory, shipping and managing vendor relationships but is worth it …
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Today, Cheryl and Liz focus on the difference between the calls to "charge what your worth" vs charging your value. Are you choosing to engage with a client simply because they are willing to pay your hourly rate, or is it because their project will bring real currency in terms of value to your firm? Have you set an hourly rate arbitrarily with no …
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