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Highlights: #214 – Buck Shlegeris on controlling AI that wants to take over – so we can use it anyway
Manage episode 477728641 series 3320433
Content provided by Rob Wiblin and Keiran Harris and The 80000 Hours team. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rob Wiblin and Keiran Harris and The 80000 Hours team or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
Most AI safety conversations centre on alignment: ensuring AI systems share our values and goals. But despite progress, we’re unlikely to know we’ve solved the problem before the arrival of human-level and superhuman systems in as little as three years.
So some — including Buck Shlegeris, CEO of Redwood Research — are developing a backup plan to safely deploy models we fear are actively scheming to harm us: so-called “AI control.” While this may sound mad, given the reluctance of AI companies to delay deploying anything they train, not developing such techniques is probably even crazier.
These highlights are from episode #214 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast: Buck Shlegeris on controlling AI that wants to take over – so we can use it anyway, and include:
- What is AI control? (00:00:15)
- One way to catch AIs that are up to no good (00:07:00)
- What do we do once we catch a model trying to escape? (00:13:39)
- Team Human vs Team AI (00:18:24)
- If an AI escapes, is it likely to be able to beat humanity from there? (00:24:59)
- Is alignment still useful? (00:32:10)
- Could 10 safety-focused people in an AGI company do anything useful? (00:35:34)
These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode!
And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org.
Highlights put together by Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong
107 episodes
Share
Manage episode 477728641 series 3320433
Content provided by Rob Wiblin and Keiran Harris and The 80000 Hours team. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rob Wiblin and Keiran Harris and The 80000 Hours team or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
Most AI safety conversations centre on alignment: ensuring AI systems share our values and goals. But despite progress, we’re unlikely to know we’ve solved the problem before the arrival of human-level and superhuman systems in as little as three years.
So some — including Buck Shlegeris, CEO of Redwood Research — are developing a backup plan to safely deploy models we fear are actively scheming to harm us: so-called “AI control.” While this may sound mad, given the reluctance of AI companies to delay deploying anything they train, not developing such techniques is probably even crazier.
These highlights are from episode #214 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast: Buck Shlegeris on controlling AI that wants to take over – so we can use it anyway, and include:
- What is AI control? (00:00:15)
- One way to catch AIs that are up to no good (00:07:00)
- What do we do once we catch a model trying to escape? (00:13:39)
- Team Human vs Team AI (00:18:24)
- If an AI escapes, is it likely to be able to beat humanity from there? (00:24:59)
- Is alignment still useful? (00:32:10)
- Could 10 safety-focused people in an AGI company do anything useful? (00:35:34)
These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode!
And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org.
Highlights put together by Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong
107 episodes
All episodes
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #215 – Tom Davidson on how AI-enabled coups could allow a tiny group to seize power 37:19
37:19 
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThroughout history, technological revolutions have fundamentally shifted the balance of power in society. The Industrial Revolution created conditions where democracies could dominate for the first time — as nations needed educated, informed, and empowered citizens to deploy advanced technologies and remain competitive. Unfortunately, there’s every reason to think artificial general intelligence (AGI) will reverse that trend. In a new paper , Tom Davidson — senior research fellow at the Forethought Centre for AI Strategy — argues that advanced AI systems will enable unprecedented power grabs by tiny groups of people, primarily by removing the need for other human beings to participate. These highlights are from episode #215 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Tom Davidson on how AI-enabled coups could allow a tiny group to seize power , and include: "No person rules alone" — except now they might (00:00:13) The 3 threat scenarios (00:06:17) Underpinning all 3 threats: Secret AI loyalties (00:10:15) Is this common sense or far-fetched? (00:13:46) How to automate a military coup (00:17:41) If you took over the US, could you take over the whole world? (00:22:44) Secret loyalties all the way down (00:26:27) Is it important to have more than one powerful AI country? (00:29:59) What transparency actually looks like (00:33:08) These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #214 – Buck Shlegeris on controlling AI that wants to take over – so we can use it anyway 41:26
41:26 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked41:26
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedMost AI safety conversations centre on alignment: ensuring AI systems share our values and goals. But despite progress, we’re unlikely to know we’ve solved the problem before the arrival of human-level and superhuman systems in as little as three years. So some — including Buck Shlegeris, CEO of Redwood Research — are developing a backup plan to safely deploy models we fear are actively scheming to harm us: so-called “AI control.” While this may sound mad, given the reluctance of AI companies to delay deploying anything they train, not developing such techniques is probably even crazier. These highlights are from episode #214 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Buck Shlegeris on controlling AI that wants to take over – so we can use it anyway , and include: What is AI control? (00:00:15) One way to catch AIs that are up to no good (00:07:00) What do we do once we catch a model trying to escape? (00:13:39) Team Human vs Team AI (00:18:24) If an AI escapes, is it likely to be able to beat humanity from there? (00:24:59) Is alignment still useful? (00:32:10) Could 10 safety-focused people in an AGI company do anything useful? (00:35:34) These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
8
80k After Hours
1 Off the Clock #8: Leaving Las London with Matt Reardon 1:43:21
1:43:21 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:43:21
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedWatch this episode on YouTube! https://youtu.be/fJssGodnCQg Conor and Arden sit down with Matt in his farewell episode to discuss the law, their team retreat, his lessons learned from 80k, and the fate of the show.
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #213 – Will MacAskill on AI causing a “century in a decade” — and how we’re completely unprepared 33:35
33:35 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked33:35
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe 20th century saw unprecedented change: nuclear weapons, satellites, the rise and fall of communism, third-wave feminism, the internet, postmodernism, game theory, genetic engineering, the Big Bang theory, quantum mechanics, birth control, and more. Now imagine all of it compressed into just 10 years. That’s the future Will MacAskill — philosopher and researcher at the Forethought Centre for AI Strategy — argues we need to prepare for in his new paper “ Preparing for the intelligence explosion .” Not in the distant future, but probably in three to seven years. These highlights are from episode #213 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Will MacAskill on AI causing a “century in a decade” — and how we’re completely unprepared , and include: Rob's intro (00:00:00) A century of history crammed into a decade (00:00:17) What does a good future with AGI even look like? (00:04:48) AI takeover might happen anyway — should we rush to load in our values? (00:09:29) Lock-in is plausible where it never was before (00:14:40) ML researchers are feverishly working to destroy their own power (00:20:07) People distrust utopianism for good reason (00:24:30) Non-technological disruption (00:29:18) The 3 intelligence explosions (00:31:10) These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #212 – Allan Dafoe on why technology is unstoppable & how to shape AI development anyway 29:21
29:21 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked29:21
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedTechnology doesn’t force us to do anything — it merely opens doors. But military and economic competition pushes us through. That’s how Allan Dafoe — director of frontier safety and governance at Google DeepMind — explains one of the deepest patterns in technological history: once a powerful new capability becomes available, societies that adopt it tend to outcompete those that don’t. Those who resist too much can find themselves taken over or rendered irrelevant. These highlights are from episode #212 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Allan Dafoe on why technology is unstoppable & how to shape AI development anyway , and include: Who's Allan Dafoe? (00:00:00) Astounding patterns in macrohistory (00:00:23) Are humans just along for the ride when it comes to technological progress? (00:03:58) Flavours of technological determinism (00:07:11) The super-cooperative AGI hypothesis and backdoors (00:12:50) Could having more cooperative AIs backfire? (00:19:16) The offence-defence balance (00:24:23) These aren't necessarily the most important or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
8
80k After Hours
1 Off the Clock #7: Getting on the Crazy Train with Chi Nguyen 1:24:27
1:24:27 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:24:27
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedWatch this episode on YouTube! https://youtu.be/IRRwHCK279E Matt, Bella, and Huon sit down with Chi Nguyen to discuss cooperating with aliens, elections of future past, and Bad Billionaires pt. 2. Check out: Matt’s summer appearance on the BBC on funding for the arts Chi’s ECL Explainer (get in touch to support!)…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #211 – Sam Bowman on why housing still isn’t fixed and what would actually work 1:01:20
1:01:20 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:01:20
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedEconomist and editor of Works in Progress Sam Bowman isn’t content to just condemn the Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) mentality behind rich countries' construction stagnation. He wants to actually get a tonne of stuff built, and by that standard the strategy of attacking ‘NIMBYs’ has been an abject failure. They are too politically powerful, and if you try to crush them, sooner or later they crush you. So Sam lays out three alternative strategies in our full interview with him — including highlights like: Rich countries have a crisis of underconstruction (00:00:19) The UK builds shockingly little because of its planning permission system (00:04:57) Overcoming NIMBYism means fixing incentives (00:07:21) NIMBYs aren't wrong: they are often harmed by development (00:10:44) Street votes give existing residents a say (00:16:29) It's essential to define in advance who gets a say (00:24:37) Property tax distribution might be the most important policy you've never heard of (00:28:55) Using aesthetics to get buy-in for new construction (00:35:48) Locals actually really like having nuclear power plants nearby (00:44:14) It can be really useful to let old and new institutions coexist for a while (00:48:27) Ozempic and living in the decade that we conquered obesity (00:53:05) Northern latitudes still need nuclear power (00:55:30) These highlights are from episode #211 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Sam Bowman on why housing still isn’t fixed and what would actually work . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . (And you may have noticed this episode is longer than most of our highlights episodes — let us know if you liked that or not!) Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #210 – Cameron Meyer Shorb on dismantling the myth that we can’t do anything to help wild animals 29:56
29:56 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked29:56
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedWe explored the cutting edge of wild animal welfare science our full interview with Cameron Meyer Shorb , executive director of Wild Animal Initiative, including highlights like: One concrete example of how we might improve wild animal welfare (00:00:16) How many wild animals are there, and which animals are they? (00:04:24) Why might wild animals be suffering? (00:08:40) The objection that we shouldn't meddle in nature because nature is good (00:12:25) Vaccines for wild animals (00:17:37) Gene drive technologies (00:20:50) Optimising for high-welfare landscapes (00:24:52) These highlights are from episode #210 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Cameron Meyer Shorb on dismantling the myth that we can’t do anything to help wild animals . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #209 – Rose Chan Loui on OpenAI’s gambit to ditch its nonprofit 24:13
24:13 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked24:13
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedNonprofit legal expert Rose Chan Loui lays out the legal case and implications of OpenAI's attempt to shed its nonprofit parent. This episode is a selection of highlights from our full interview with Rose , including: How OpenAI carefully chose a complex nonprofit structure (00:00:26) The nonprofit board is out-resourced and in a tough spot (00:04:09) Is control of OpenAI 'priceless' to the nonprofit in pursuit of its mission? (00:06:47) Control of OpenAI is independently incredibly valuable and requires compensation (00:11:06) It's very important that the nonprofit gets cash and not just equity (00:16:06) How the nonprofit board can best play their hand (00:21:20) These highlights are from episode #209 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Rose Chan Loui on OpenAI’s gambit to ditch its nonprofit . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #208 – Elizabeth Cox on the case that TV shows, movies, and novels can improve the world 29:15
29:15 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked29:15
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedElizabeth Cox — founder of the independent production company Should We Studio — makes the case that storytelling can improve the world. This episode is a selection of highlights from our full interview with Elizabeth , including: Keiran’s intro (00:00:00) Empirical evidence of the impact of storytelling (00:00:16) The hits-based approach to storytelling (00:03:35) Debating the merits of thinking about target audiences (00:07:48) Ada vs other approaches to impact-focused storytelling (00:13:15) Why animation? (00:18:56) How long will humans stay relevant as creative writers, given AI advances? (00:22:40) These highlights are from episode #208 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Elizabeth Cox on the case that TV shows, movies, and novels can improve the world . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #207 – Sarah Eustis-Guthrie on why she shut down her charity, and why more founders should follow her lead 22:31
22:31 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked22:31
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedCharity founder Sarah Eustis-Guthrie has a candid conversation about her experience starting and running her maternal health charity, and ultimately making the difficult decision to shut down when the programme wasn’t as impactful as they expected. This episode is a selection of highlights from our full interview with Sarah : Luisa’s intro (00:00:00) What it's like to found a charity (00:00:14) Yellow flags and difficult calls (00:03:17) Disappointing results (00:06:28) The ups and downs of founding an organisation (00:08:37) Entrepreneurship and being willing to make risky bets (00:12:58) Why aren't more charities shutting down? (00:16:50) How to think about shutting down (00:19:39) These highlights are from episode #207 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Sarah Eustis-Guthrie on why she shut down her charity, and why more founders should follow her lead . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #206 – Anil Seth on the predictive brain and how to study consciousness 19:37
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedNeuroscientist Anil Seth explains how much we can learn about consciousness by studying the brain in these highlights from our full interview — including: Luisa’s intro (00:00:00) How our brain interprets reality (00:00:15) How our brain experiences our organs (00:04:04) What psychedelics teach us about consciousness (00:07:37) The physical footprint of consciousness in the brain (00:12:10) How to study the neural correlates of consciousness (00:15:37) This is a selection of highlights from episode #206 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Anil Seth on the predictive brain and how to study consciousness . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode! And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #205 – Sébastien Moro on the most insane things fish can do 30:55
30:55 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked30:55
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedScience writer and video blogger Sébastien Moro blows our minds with the latest research on fish consciousness, intelligence, and potential sentience. This is a selection of highlights from episode #205 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Sébastien Moro on the most insane things fish can do . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode. And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights: Luisa’s intro (00:00:00) The ingenious innovations of Atlantic cod (00:00:19) The mirror test triumph of cleaner wrasses (00:05:46) The astounding accuracy of archerfish (00:10:30) The magnificent memory of gobies (00:14:25) The tactical teamwork of the grouper and moray eel (00:17:42) The remarkable relationships of wild guppies (00:22:01) Sébastien's take on fish consciousness (00:26:48) Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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80k After Hours
1 Highlights: #204 – Nate Silver on making sense of SBF, and his biggest critiques of effective altruism 19:20
19:20 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked19:20
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedElection forecaster Nate Silver gives his takes on: how effective altruism could be better, the stark tradeoffs we faced with COVID, whether the 13 Keys to the White House is "junk science," how to tell whose election predictions are better, and if venture capitalists really take risks. This is a selection of highlights from episode #204 of The 80,000 Hours Podcast : Nate Silver on making sense of SBF, and his biggest critiques of effective altruism . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — so if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode. And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights: Rob’s intro (00:00:00) Is anyone doing better at "doing good better"? (00:00:29) Is effective altruism too big to succeed? (00:02:19) The stark tradeoffs we faced with COVID (00:06:02) The 13 Keys to the White House (00:07:53) Can we tell whose election predictions are better? (00:11:40) Do venture capitalists really take risks? (00:16:29) Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
8
80k After Hours
1 Highlights: Luisa and Keiran on free will, and the consequences of never feeling enduring guilt or shame 13:15
13:15 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked13:15
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThis is a selection of highlights from our April 2023 episode with host Luisa Rodriguez and producer Keiran Harris on 80k After Hours . These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — and if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode: Luisa and Keiran on free will, and the consequences of never feeling enduring guilt or shame And if you're finding these highlights episodes valuable, please let us know by emailing podcast@80000hours.org . Highlights: Keiran’s intro (00:00:00) Jerk Syndrome (00:00:53) The basic case for free will being an illusion (00:05:10) Feeling bad about not being a different person (00:08:29) Implications for the criminal justice system (00:10:57) Highlights put together by Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong…
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Do your eyes glaze over when looking at a long list of annual health insurance enrollment options – or maybe while you’re trying to calculate how much you owe the IRS? You might be wondering the same thing we are: Where’s the guidebook for all of this grown-up stuff? Whether opening a bank account, refinancing student loans, or purchasing car insurance (...um, can we just roll the dice without it?), we’re just as confused as you are. Enter: “Grown-Up Stuff: How to Adult” a podcast dedicated ...
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Missing Pages: An Investigative Podcast on the Book Publishing Industry
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Missing Pages: An Investigative Podcast on the Book Publishing Industry
The Podglomerate
16k29
An investigative podcast hosted by world-renowned literary critic and publishing insider Bethanne Patrick. Book bans are on the rise across America. With the rise of social media, book publishers are losing their power as the industry gatekeepers. More and more celebrities and influencers are publishing books with ghostwriters. Writing communities are splintering because members are at cross purposes about their mission. Missing Pages is an investigative podcast about the book publishing ind ...
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Welcome to Almost 30 - a supportive space to fuel your conscious evolution. Join us, LA-based best friends Krista Williams and Lindsey Simcik, for heart-centered, hilarious conversations and real, raw, impactful interviews with brilliant guests. We dive deep into topics like modern spirituality to health and wellness, aliens to entrepreneurship, social justice, and self development. With every episode, our mission is to empower you, expand what you think is possible and, make you laugh - a l ...
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Welcome to the Success Story Podcast, hosted by entrepreneur, business executive, author, educator & speaker, Scott D. Clary (@scottdclary). On this podcast, you'll find interviews, Q&A, keynote presentations & conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups and entrepreneurship. Scott will discuss some of the lessons he's learned over his own career, as well as have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, notable figures and politicians. All who have achieved success through both w ...
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In today's world, there are so many forces that make us try to feel guilty for being MEN. This podcast was created to give guys just like you the skills to rediscover your masculine instincts. My sincere goal is to help you maximize your life in the areas of masculinity ... seduction .... dating ... self-development ... success ... money ... confidence ... sex ... and women. And to do it WITHOUT APOLOGY.
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