Around the Ladder with Steve Fretzin

Around the Ladder

In this episode of Around the Ladder, Erika Steinberg welcomes business development expert Steve Fretzin to discuss unconventional career journeys, particularly in the legal industry. Steve shares his unique path from sales professional to renowned coach for attorneys, emphasizing that career success often comes from zigzags and pivots rather than a straight climb. Together, Erika and Steve explore why lawyers struggle with business development, how to overcome the stigma of “selling,” and practical strategies for building a thriving law practice without feeling inauthentic or salesy.

Key Topics Covered

• Steve’s Journey:
  Steve recounts how he avoided the legal field due to his father’s influence, only to find his niche coaching lawyers after years in sales. He explains how the lack of business development education in law led him to specialize in helping attorneys.
  

• The “Sales-Free Selling” Approach:
  Steve’s methodology centers on relationship-building, not aggressive selling. He explains how lawyers can grow their practices by focusing on authentic connections and identifying win-win opportunities.

• Why Lawyers Need Business Development Support:
  Many attorneys feel unprepared and uncomfortable with marketing and business development. Steve and Erika discuss how reframing these activities as problem-solving (just like legal work) can help lawyers embrace them.

• Common Advice for Stuck or Overwhelmed Lawyers:
  Steve emphasizes breaking big goals into manageable steps, cultivating the right mindset, and focusing on incremental progress rather than intimidating targets.

• The Myth of the “Best Kept Secret”:
  Both Erika and Steve caution against relying on reputation alone or waiting for the phone to ring. They stress the importance of proactive marketing and business development, especially in uncertain times.

• Turning Complex Concepts into Actionable Steps:
  Steve shares his process for translating high-level business advice into clear, step-by-step actions that lawyers can easily implement. He gives examples of how to ask clients for referrals using permission-based, relationship-focused language.

Notable Quotes

“Business development isn’t a dirty thing. What it actually is, is very similar to lawyering. It’s solving problems.” – Steve Fretzin

“You don’t want to be the best kept secret. That’s not a good recipe.”
– Erika Steinberg

Resources Mentioned

• Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice by Steve Fretzin

• “Be That Lawyer” Podcast (hosted by Steve Fretzin)

• Above the Law (Steve is a regular contributor)

Connect with Steve Fretzin

• Website

• LinkedIn

About the Show

Around the Ladder is a podcast dedicated to exploring nontraditional career paths and the real stories behind professional success. Hosted by Erika Steinberg, each episode features candid conversations with guests who have navigated unexpected turns and found fulfillment on their own terms.

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