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38| What’s the Future of Lean? [with James Womack]
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What have we really learned after four decades of lean?
Is lean thinking still relevant today?
And importantly — what needs to change to ensure its future success?
In the previous episode, I sat down with James Womack, founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute, to look back on 40 years of lean thinking and management since the publication of The Machine That Changed the World.
In this episode, we look ahead to the future of lean and dig into big questions, including those submitted by listeners:
- Is there a better term than “lean”?
- What would Jim do differently if he could reintroduce lean to the world?
- How do AI and new technologies fit with the application of lean principles?
- What’s Jim’s greatest surprise over the past 45 years?
Jim doesn’t hold back in this discussion — and provides his advice as he passes the baton to the next generation of lean leaders.
YOU’LL LEARN:
- Why lean principles still apply even as technology evolves and takes over tasks once done by people
- What’s stopping organizations from fully embracing lean principles and practices
- Why lean must be leader-led—not outsourced to consultants or internal operational excellence teams
- How developing people’s capabilities for problem-solving at all levels is critical to success
- The true role and purpose of management
If you are passionate about the potential of lean’s impact now and in the future, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.
ABOUT MY GUEST:
James P. Womack, PhD, is the former research director of MIT’s International Motor Vehicle Program who led the team that coined the term “lean production” to describe the Toyota Production System. Along with Daniel Jones, he co-authored “The Machine That Changed the World”, “Lean Thinking”, and “Lean Solutions”. Jim is the founder of Lean Enterprise Institute where he continues to serve as a senior advisor.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
- Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/38
- Listen to Part 1 where lean has failed and succeeded: ChainOfLearning.com/37
- Connect with James Womack: linkedin.com/in/womack-james-52763b212
- Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
- Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
- Learn about my Japan Study Trip program: kbjanderson.com/JapanTrip
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
01:48 Two things Jim would do differently in introducing lean
03:92 Why consultant-driven Kaizen falls short
05:29 The origin of the word “lean”
08:29 The alternative label instead of the term "lean"
10:26 How lean intersects with emerging and established technologies
14:43 Analyzing AI’s effectiveness through the value stream
16:02 Jim’s greatest surprise of the 40 + years of lean
19:10 Changes at Toyota’s Operations Management Development Division
22:27 Why problem-solving skills matter at every level
23:34 Jim’s parting advice for the next generation of lean leaders
Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Leadership Experience - early registration rate now through May 31st!
https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/
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