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Ep. 118: Dr. Sean Stein Smith - Accounting for Cryptoassets
Manage episode 289752588 series 2538467
Contact Dr. Sean Stein Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-sean-stein-smith-dba-cpa-63307444/
Institute for Blockchain & Cryptoasset Research: https://www.ibcr.info/
Bitcoin Is Hitting All Time Highs – How Are Organizations Accounting For It?: https://www.forbes.com/sites/seansteinsmith/2021/02/17/bitcoin-is-hitting-all-time-highs--how-are-organizations-accounting-for-it/
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Mitch: (00:00)
Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and this is episode 118 of our series. For today's episode, we welcome back Assistant Professor at Lehman College, Dr. Sean Stein Smith. Sean is also the founder of the Institute for Blockchain and Crypto Asset Research and is a forbes.com contributor in the area of crypto and blockchain. In previous episodes, Sean has joined us to talk about different types of blockchain and its uses. In the conversation you're about to hear now, he talks with Adam specifically about accounting for crypto assets. Let's head over and listen to their conversation now.
Adam: (00:51)
So Sean in your recent article for Forbes, you talk about how Bitcoin is hitting an all time high. What does this mean for an organization's accounting as not every organization is ready to move into cryptocurrency?
Sean: (01:02)
Yeah and so with the price of Bitcoin and all of the other altcoins, really at their all time highs or very close to them, all of this is having a huge impact on how companies are trying to adapt, navigate in trying to onboard Bitcoin and other crypto options as a form of doing payment. Right? Because it’s always important to always keep in mind that even though Bitcoin headline prices are obviously headline news, the original idea of Bitcoin and the whole blockchain crypto asset space, it was to develop basically a alternative way to conduct payments. And it hasn't really played out that way and a big part of that is that it's awfully hard for certain firms out there to actually take a Bitcoin and other crypto as a form of payment. And I mean, there are all kinds of IT issues on how the computer systems have to interoperate, but the real issue from sort of our angle here is that the current accounting treatment really makes no business sense from a tax point of view, from a gap point of view, from a IFRS point of view, there really is a issue and a headwind out there that I believe and in all of the anecdotal conversations that I have is honestly proving to be a big headwind that firms are having a hard time trying to figure out how to one, take in these agreements and then two, after they have them what to do with them.
Adam: (02:40)
So is it kind of like the Wild West out there since there are no crypto specific authoritative accounting standards?
Sean: (02:46)
Well, there are no crypto specific authoritative standards yet, either under gap or IFRS but there is this consensus that apparently has been reached, led by the top firms trying to sort of get something out there right. And I totally understand why they were trying to get some sort of consensus out there via the white papers conversations, all the rest to have something to answer external client questions with, but the current treatment of Bitcoin and other crypto as a indefinite lived intangible asset, which kind of sounds good on paper, right? Because Bitcoin and other crypto are intangible and they have no fixed economic life. But outside of that, it honestly makes no sense because it doesn't really reflect the economic realities on the ground. And I won't go into too too much depth here, but if I have an indefinite, intangible asset on the books like Goodwill, I have to do tests for possible impairment losses every time, a change in the business outlook really causes that to happen. Okay great, but if I have Bitcoin on the books, as we all know, Bitcoin and other crypto assets have a little bit of price volatility in there. And so if it drops by 20%, 10%, which it has done multiple times, I, as the firm holding these assets now on the books, I have to do the test for impairment, write down the asset books, the cost. Okay, so far so good. But on the other hand, if and when Bitcoin goes up by 10%, 20%, 200%, I can't do anything with that under the current rules. So it's not so much the Wild Wild West out there. It's almost artificially trying to fit a square peg into a round hole Adam, right because I can't mark up correctly the current market value of the assets that I hold, or in other words, under the current accounting, consensus that has been reached in the face of no crypto specific guidance, I'm basically forced to hold these assets on the books at an artificially lower level, no matter what happens outside in the marketplace.
Adam: (05:29)
Now you mentioned impairment in that last answer, how does that come into play with cryptocurrency? Could you go into a little more detail?
Sean: (05:36)
Sure. And so probably the most obvious case as to how it could come into play is if I received payment in Bitcoin at the end of 2020 or even early 2021, Bitcoin and the other altcoins out there were on an upswing, right. They had all increased in price quite a bit. During that back half of 2020, and into the first quarter of 2021, obviously there are some pullbacks and that's where the issue really does pop up. So there was one specific weekend early in the first quarter of 2021 where the price of Bitcoin dropped over 20%. And so if I, as a firm head chosen to take Bitcoin as a form of customer payment and then also chosen to hold those Bitcoin in a hot wallet, cold wallet, all the rest of us actually hold them at the firm. So I've been paid in crypto, got the back office and go to work, he was able to interoperate with my AR AP treasury all the rest. So now I'm holding Bitcoin on the books. Okay. Then if it drops by 20%, I think it was 24% over a four or five day period. I have to book that impairment loss. Because that's an obvious change in the asset itself, market conditions, business conditions that then triggers this whole test for impairment. And so if I am correctly trying to apply the current accounting consensus, again not tailored for crypto assets, I would go ahead and I would write down that asset. I would impair the asset on the balance sheet, lowering that asset value, and then also book the cost on the income statement as an expense in the current period. Okay. Fine. But, and then if the price of Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency recovers or goes up, what you did, I can't do anything, I cannot under the current accounting consensus for Bitcoin and other crypto as an indefinite lived intangible asset, I cannot mark up or I cannot revalue that asset. So an impairment loss is a permanent entry. And so even though the market price might have recovered or even exceeded my cost or the old basis that I had in this asset, I cannot accurately reflect that on the balance sheet.
Adam: (08:29)
So what if an organization wanted to hold cryptocurrency as like a long-term asset, does that kind of change their outlook on it?
Sean: (08:36)
Well, I would say that really there have been some very interesting headlines out there of firms like Tesla, Microstrategy, Square, have been buying up Bitcoin, and I would assume other cryptocurrencies to some extent, but they have all come out publicly supporting Bitcoin and its use and as a store of value, currency, economic em...
343 episodes
Manage episode 289752588 series 2538467
Contact Dr. Sean Stein Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-sean-stein-smith-dba-cpa-63307444/
Institute for Blockchain & Cryptoasset Research: https://www.ibcr.info/
Bitcoin Is Hitting All Time Highs – How Are Organizations Accounting For It?: https://www.forbes.com/sites/seansteinsmith/2021/02/17/bitcoin-is-hitting-all-time-highs--how-are-organizations-accounting-for-it/
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Mitch: (00:00)
Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and this is episode 118 of our series. For today's episode, we welcome back Assistant Professor at Lehman College, Dr. Sean Stein Smith. Sean is also the founder of the Institute for Blockchain and Crypto Asset Research and is a forbes.com contributor in the area of crypto and blockchain. In previous episodes, Sean has joined us to talk about different types of blockchain and its uses. In the conversation you're about to hear now, he talks with Adam specifically about accounting for crypto assets. Let's head over and listen to their conversation now.
Adam: (00:51)
So Sean in your recent article for Forbes, you talk about how Bitcoin is hitting an all time high. What does this mean for an organization's accounting as not every organization is ready to move into cryptocurrency?
Sean: (01:02)
Yeah and so with the price of Bitcoin and all of the other altcoins, really at their all time highs or very close to them, all of this is having a huge impact on how companies are trying to adapt, navigate in trying to onboard Bitcoin and other crypto options as a form of doing payment. Right? Because it’s always important to always keep in mind that even though Bitcoin headline prices are obviously headline news, the original idea of Bitcoin and the whole blockchain crypto asset space, it was to develop basically a alternative way to conduct payments. And it hasn't really played out that way and a big part of that is that it's awfully hard for certain firms out there to actually take a Bitcoin and other crypto as a form of payment. And I mean, there are all kinds of IT issues on how the computer systems have to interoperate, but the real issue from sort of our angle here is that the current accounting treatment really makes no business sense from a tax point of view, from a gap point of view, from a IFRS point of view, there really is a issue and a headwind out there that I believe and in all of the anecdotal conversations that I have is honestly proving to be a big headwind that firms are having a hard time trying to figure out how to one, take in these agreements and then two, after they have them what to do with them.
Adam: (02:40)
So is it kind of like the Wild West out there since there are no crypto specific authoritative accounting standards?
Sean: (02:46)
Well, there are no crypto specific authoritative standards yet, either under gap or IFRS but there is this consensus that apparently has been reached, led by the top firms trying to sort of get something out there right. And I totally understand why they were trying to get some sort of consensus out there via the white papers conversations, all the rest to have something to answer external client questions with, but the current treatment of Bitcoin and other crypto as a indefinite lived intangible asset, which kind of sounds good on paper, right? Because Bitcoin and other crypto are intangible and they have no fixed economic life. But outside of that, it honestly makes no sense because it doesn't really reflect the economic realities on the ground. And I won't go into too too much depth here, but if I have an indefinite, intangible asset on the books like Goodwill, I have to do tests for possible impairment losses every time, a change in the business outlook really causes that to happen. Okay great, but if I have Bitcoin on the books, as we all know, Bitcoin and other crypto assets have a little bit of price volatility in there. And so if it drops by 20%, 10%, which it has done multiple times, I, as the firm holding these assets now on the books, I have to do the test for impairment, write down the asset books, the cost. Okay, so far so good. But on the other hand, if and when Bitcoin goes up by 10%, 20%, 200%, I can't do anything with that under the current rules. So it's not so much the Wild Wild West out there. It's almost artificially trying to fit a square peg into a round hole Adam, right because I can't mark up correctly the current market value of the assets that I hold, or in other words, under the current accounting, consensus that has been reached in the face of no crypto specific guidance, I'm basically forced to hold these assets on the books at an artificially lower level, no matter what happens outside in the marketplace.
Adam: (05:29)
Now you mentioned impairment in that last answer, how does that come into play with cryptocurrency? Could you go into a little more detail?
Sean: (05:36)
Sure. And so probably the most obvious case as to how it could come into play is if I received payment in Bitcoin at the end of 2020 or even early 2021, Bitcoin and the other altcoins out there were on an upswing, right. They had all increased in price quite a bit. During that back half of 2020, and into the first quarter of 2021, obviously there are some pullbacks and that's where the issue really does pop up. So there was one specific weekend early in the first quarter of 2021 where the price of Bitcoin dropped over 20%. And so if I, as a firm head chosen to take Bitcoin as a form of customer payment and then also chosen to hold those Bitcoin in a hot wallet, cold wallet, all the rest of us actually hold them at the firm. So I've been paid in crypto, got the back office and go to work, he was able to interoperate with my AR AP treasury all the rest. So now I'm holding Bitcoin on the books. Okay. Then if it drops by 20%, I think it was 24% over a four or five day period. I have to book that impairment loss. Because that's an obvious change in the asset itself, market conditions, business conditions that then triggers this whole test for impairment. And so if I am correctly trying to apply the current accounting consensus, again not tailored for crypto assets, I would go ahead and I would write down that asset. I would impair the asset on the balance sheet, lowering that asset value, and then also book the cost on the income statement as an expense in the current period. Okay. Fine. But, and then if the price of Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency recovers or goes up, what you did, I can't do anything, I cannot under the current accounting consensus for Bitcoin and other crypto as an indefinite lived intangible asset, I cannot mark up or I cannot revalue that asset. So an impairment loss is a permanent entry. And so even though the market price might have recovered or even exceeded my cost or the old basis that I had in this asset, I cannot accurately reflect that on the balance sheet.
Adam: (08:29)
So what if an organization wanted to hold cryptocurrency as like a long-term asset, does that kind of change their outlook on it?
Sean: (08:36)
Well, I would say that really there have been some very interesting headlines out there of firms like Tesla, Microstrategy, Square, have been buying up Bitcoin, and I would assume other cryptocurrencies to some extent, but they have all come out publicly supporting Bitcoin and its use and as a store of value, currency, economic em...
343 episodes
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