The Transformative Power Of Curiosity - A Conversation With Scott Shigeoka (Ep. 38) Courageous Conversations About Our Schools podcast

41:18

This story starts with a bag of shoes that helped a school community heal after the tragic deaths of two students. That story blossomed into a unique project called the “Shoe Club” that fosters empathy and breaks barriers in a Michigan middle school. The founder of the club and guest on this episode is Matt Hamilton, a 2025 Horace Mann and NEA Award-winning teacher from East Jordan Public Schools in Michigan. The Club has gotten national attention with inscribed shoe donations from the likes of Jane Goodall, Michael Jordan, moon-walking astronaut Chalie Duke, Dolly Parton, and a Nobel Peace Prize recipient. Hear about the unique requirements for joining the Shoe Club, which now include reading the book Value Up , co-authored by Hamilton. Students also donate one of their own shoes with a meaningful inscription. Matt explains how the club evolved to include community service and the creation of dream boards, all designed to empower students with a sense of purpose. Joining Matt are two student Club members from East Jordan: Hannah Wyman, an eighth-grader active in theater, and Rylan McVannel, an eleventh-grader with a passion for disc golf. Both are integral to the Shoe Club's story and offer firsthand perspectives on its significance within their school community. A central theme of the conversation is the concept of students wearing "masks" and the pain that can lie hidden beneath the surface. Matt, Hannah, and Rylan discuss the Shoe Club's role in encouraging students to see beyond these facades and creating a safe space for understanding and connection. They share powerful insights into how the club promotes listening, appreciating diverse perspectives, and bridging the powerful forces that often divide students. For educators intrigued by the Shoe Club, Matt generously offers guidance on how educators and students elsewhere can start something similar in their own schools. This episode is a testament to the power of a teacher's vision and the remarkable capacity of students to create positive change. Through the simple yet profound act of sharing stories and "walking in each other's shoes," the Shoe Club in East Jordan is a powerful antidote to division and a beacon of hope for building more empathetic and connected school communities. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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From Hate to Dialogue: A Conversation with Daryl Davis, “Klan Whisperer” (Ep. 41) 56:27

7 weeks ago56:27

56:27

How many of us would have the courage to have a conversation with someone who hates us? My guest, Daryl Davis, has done just that, not once, but for decades, with members of the Ku Kluz Klan and other hate groups, and many have renounced their ideology after getting to know him. A Black musician, Davis shares his unbelievable story driven by one powerful question: "How can you hate me when you don't even know me?" Prepare to be challenged to rethink how we and our students engage with those who seem the furthest from us. Here are some of Davis’s key recommendations for educators: Create opportunities for students to engage with and learn from people with unfamiliar backgrounds and perspectives. Go beyond designated "diversity" events or months. Teach history honestly, including the shameful parts that students can learn from. Encourage students to “walk across the cafeteria” and to have conversations with those outside of their affinity group. Davis attributes his propensity for empathy to his early school experiences in highly diverse classrooms.) Encourage students to form groups based on common interests rather than race or ethnicity. Notable quotes about Daryl Davis: "Daryl Davis is a national treasure—he's living proof it's possible to talk people out of their hate...If everyone followed his lead, the world would be a more respectful, thoughtful place." - Adam Grant, #1 New Your Times bestselling author, host of Re: Thinking podcast "I have a lot of respect for Daryl Davis." - Former KKK Imperial Wizard "Daryl Davis has proven that when you open your heart to someone, you give them a chance to open their heart to you." - Morgan Freeman, Academy Award-winning actor, producer, and narrator. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Character Education is Essential (and Unavoidable). How To Do It Well (Ep. 39) 43:14

10 weeks ago43:14

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This episode is part of our series on our sister podcast, Teacher Stories , on what schools can do to help save our democracy. Guests include Dr. Marvin W. Berkowitz, McDonnell Professor of Character Education at the Center for Character Education and Citizenship at the University of Missouri at St. Louis, and Dr. Kashina Bell, Deputy Superintendent for the School District of University City in St. Louis, Missouri. Both talk about character education - what it looks like, how it's done, and why it's vital to our democracy. "I think the concept of the common good as a concept is an endangered species in democracies," Dr. Berkowitz says. "Every educator affects kids' character. And we want them to do it intentionally, and positively, and effectively...There is no moral future without moral children, and there's no democratic future without democratic children. Education is a critical piece of that." Speaking about her former role as a school principal, Dr. Bell says, "I inherited a school that was really forgotten about...The teachers didn't want to be there. The kids didn't want to be there...We began the process of bringing our system back to health...We began establishing some values...We rooted ourselves in a common language to define our collective and individual responsibility to one another as well as to the community." In addition to boosting academic achievement, Bell says, "...our kids were no longer running away from the school. They really wanted to be in school, and they began to thrive." Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Democracies Cannot Survive Without Quality Education. A Conversation with Author Brook Manville (Ep. 40) 48:39

10 weeks ago48:39

48:39

American democracy cannot survive without well-functioning schools that enable students to become good citizens and that teach them to appreciate what it means to live under a system whose only boss are the people themselves. That’s the claim my guest Brook Manville makes in his new book, The Civic Bargain – How Democracies Survive . In this wide-ranging conversation about civic education, Manville says schools must cultivate “civic friendship,” one of seven conditions that have been present in all democratic societies going back to ancient Greece. “[Civic friendship] does not mean that you agree with everybody or that you necessarily personally like everybody,” Manville says. “It means that you know how to get along with them, you have enough respect for them, and they have enough respect for you…The way in which students listen, learn, and speak to one another takes place in a well-moderated classroom. That’s something you want children coming out of school that is deep in their souls by the time they graduate.” Manville also sees the need for more civic friendship among the adult stakeholders. “It's so discouraging,” he says, “when school board meetings turn into ‘riot fests.’ It's exactly what shouldn't be happening in a school. Not to say that there aren't emotionally good and valid points that are being exchanged, but part of civic education has to be the mindset and the process of working with tomorrow's fellow citizens, which young students will be.” During this episode, I play an audio clip from Marvin Berkowitz, an expert on character education and a guest on a previous episode. Berkowitz says, “In democracies, we've lost the sense of what the common good is. Democracies have sort of devolved into a mathematical enterprise where everybody votes for self-interest, out of fear, out of hatred, bigotry, or out of ignorance. That never was supposed to be what democracy is democracy.” Berkowitz goes on to say, “There's no moral future without moral children, and there's no democratic future without democratic children…Character education is a critical piece of all that.” Tune in to hear Manville’s response to Berkowitz and his call for character education. And find out what Manville thinks schools can do to promote civic education, another of the seven conditions he says all democracies depend on. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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The Transformative Power of Curiosity - A Conversation with Scott Shigeoka (Ep. 38) 43:48

16 weeks ago43:48

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Curiosity has been a common theme in this podcast. Conflict experts like my guests Amanda Ripley , Monica Guzman , and Peter Coleman say being curious and less judgmental is often a better way out of toxic conflict than making stronger arguments or presenting more facts. And, as we heard from our recent guest, Tim Shriver , it’s a much better alternative than treating one’s adversaries with contempt, which often makes matters worse. “Contempt only makes an enemy for your cause,” he says. But how does curiosity work? How can we be curious about people whose perspectives we reject? What makes us incurious ? I have not encountered anyone more qualified to answer these questions than Scott Shigeoka. Scott has devoted decades thinking about, studying, and talking with people about curiosity, and he recently wrote a book on the subject called Seek - How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World . His study of the concept leads him to distinguish between shallow and deep curiosity and to warn readers about “predatory curiosity” and “performative curiosity.” In this episode, Scott explains why curiosity is so powerful, not just as a way out of toxic conflict but as a path to understanding the world and others on a deeper level. For these reasons, it’s something that must be cultivated in schools. One of the questions I was curious about is, What makes students, or all of us for that matter, incurious? What gets in the way? Are some of us simply born to be more curious, or can it be taught? Can the desire to understand be extinguished? Tune in to hear Scott’s answers to these questions and his reflections on the various ways curiosity can spark deeper learning and strengthen our schools. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Why These Students Are Rejecting Contempt and Embracing Dignity (Ep. 37) 50:30

19 weeks ago50:30

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In our previous episode (Ep. 36) , Tim Shriver America’s widening political and social divides are, surprisingly, not due to our differences. “We’ve always had differences,” he says, “Contempt is the problem.” Shriver explains why treating others with dignity is more likely to produce the results we want and why contempt usually does the opposite. He and his colleagues created the Dignity Index to help us recognize the various ways we can regard our adversaries—either with contempt or with dignity. In the current episode, Futernick interviews four college students who are ambassadors for Students for Dignity , an organization with over 25 chapters on college campuses across the county. Preston Brightwell, the founder of this organization, also participates. Each student explains how he or she uses the Dignity Index to assess their interactions and help others see the virtues of dignity over contempt. Key questions addressed in this conversation: Why did you choose to get involved with Student for Dignity? How have you experienced contempt or been contemptuous yourself? What fuels contempt (adult models, social media)? What pushback do you get from other students who may be reluctant to treat their adversaries with dignity? What can students do if they want to get involved? Notable Quotes I feel like there are moments where we push for a world of dignity, but we don't hold friends accountable when they're being contemptuous. And it's the level at which when you're throwing contempt at me or my loved ones, I will react, but when my loved ones throw contempt at you, I'm going to turn a blind eye. - Iradukunda Manikandan ### I would say what frequently fuels contempt is that it's much easier. It gives you that spike of adrenaline. You tend to build your in-group because the minute that you say something fiery on social media, everyone who agrees with you is like, YEAH! And then you feel seen. It's much less interesting to say, “I don't agree with that.” And no one watches that on TikTok. - Alexa Merril ### I really think contempt breeds contempt. When our dignity is violated, it's easy and almost justified to respond with contempt. And so it's just contempt, contempt, contempt. And somebody has to be the one to take a step back and say, “I am going to respond with dignity.” - David Witt Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Getting Students (and Adults) to Respect One Another’s Dignity - A Conversation with Tim Shriver (Ep. 36) 54:19

21 weeks ago54:19

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Tim Shriver is a member of the Kennedy family, Chairman of Special Olympics International, co-founder of UNITE, and a former teacher. In this wide-ranging conversation with host Ken Futernick, Shriver describes a tool he co-created called the Dignity Index, and he describes how educators are using it to address our widening political and social divides. “We built it because there's an issue in our culture, in our families, in our homes, and in our schools that we haven't paid that much attention to. And the issue is how we treat each other when we disagree.” The Index is a framework that allows students (and politicians and educators) to examine their interactions, with the goal of reducing contempt and promoting a sense of dignity toward others. “Most people think the problem is that we have such [great] differences in our country. Our view is that's not a problem,” Shriver says. “We've always had differences…Difference is not the problem… Contempt is the problem.” How Educators Are Using the Index Shriver says students in history classes are using the Index to score speeches from historical figures like Abraham Lincoln, William Jennings Bryan, Harriet Tubman, and Martin Luther King Jr. “Students learn how to dissect the rhetoric in our political history, looking for whether this particular figure used dignity or contempt. And, we have other elementary school teachers who are creating codes of conduct using the Index. A school district in the Salt Lake City School District,” Shriver says, “has created what they call the five and up rule.” When students disagree, teachers help students use language in the upper half of the index (i.e., levels 5-8) - language that views others with dignity rather than contempt. Shriver says his organization has received requests from school boards asking for help with people who are “fired up and angry” over one issue or another. They want to know how to get them to use dignity language rather than dehumanizing and humiliating people with different perspectives. Isn’t Contemp Warranted at Times? Reflecting on an objection some might have to this approach, Ken asks, “Aren’t there some acts and some people who just aren’t dignified themselves, whose acts are awful. How can you hold this belief about a person who commits heinous acts or has really awful political views that hurt people… How can you (or should you) still feel a sense of dignity towards that person or those actions?” The problem, Shriver says, is that the alternative, contempt, “makes an enemy for your cause.” Whether the target of one’s contempt is a politician or another student, the outcome is always the same. That person’s views and actions are more , not less, likely to persist. What makes matters worse, Shriver says, is that contempt in today’s culture has become “glorified and rewarded, and it’s making all of us less happy and less healthy.” Schools Play a Vital Role Shriver concludes with this inspiring reflection on educators' critical role in holding our nation together. “I started my career as a teacher. When I look to the institutions of this nation, and I look to who and where are people who know that everybody deserves a chance, where are the people who know that hope and development are the actual work of community building and nation building? Where are the people who trust that new ideas can emerge? It's schools.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Schools Are Abandoning DEI. How a Different Approach Can Preserve It (Ep. 35) 58:36

24 weeks ago58:36

58:36

School mission statements across the county commonly included language about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. DEI training for educators was also common. But that’s changed in recent years as school culture wars erupted around the books students have access to: how students learn about history, race, and gender identity, and anything that smacks of “woke” ideology. DEI, as perceived by its advocates, is a unifying concept, but because a growing segment of the population perceives it as a divisive, alienating, and controversial, school officials in many districts have stricken DEI language from their mission statements. Many have eliminated DEI personnel positions and the trainings they once offered. My two guests, Channa Pitt and Dennis DiMaggio, both with extensive experience with DEI programs, weigh in on the causes of the backlash, and they offer concrete ideas that could lessen the resistance to DEI to the point where educators, parents, and students would embrace it. The key, they say, is to shift away top-down training from DEI “experts,” to authentic and safe engagement where individual identities are not placed in neat categories (e.g., oppressor and “oppressed” or “privileged” and “victims”). They suggest focusing on personal narratives and memoirs to build empathy and understanding across differences, focusing on shared values rather than divisive political rhetoric, and engaging in open, curious conversations where people feel heard and respected rather than judged. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Teachers Are Afraid to Talk About the 2024 Election (Ep. 34) 41:37

30 weeks ago41:37

41:37

One would think that schools are the perfect place for students to learn about elections. What better opportunity to use the critical thinking skills they’ve learned in making sense of what the candidates are saying and to distinguish credible information from what they often encounter on social and mainstream media? These skills would certainly serve them well after the election when there are sure to be protests, claims, and counterclaims about election fraud and tampering. However, many teachers said they wouldn’t be discussing the 2024 election between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump, according to a recent survey conducted by EdWeek. Many cited concerns about parent complaints, and others worried that students could not discuss the election respectfully. My three guests—a college freshman, two university educators, and a communications director—lament that polarization and fear keep politics and healthy conflict out of the classroom. Each one suggests ways to turn this around, and they describe the benefits of doing so for all Americans. What’s especially interesting about this conversation is that one would be hard-pressed to identify my guests’ party affiliations. You will, however, have to ignore the fact that two of them say early on that they are leaders of young Republican groups in Texas. From my vantage point, this is yet another sign that when we Americans explore their core values, we fundamentally want the same things from our schools. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Bold, Effective Leadership in Polarized Times - An Illuminating Conversation with Katy Anthes (Ep. 33) 34:42

31 weeks ago34:42

34:42

This episode will interest anyone interested in what it takes to successfully lead a politically diverse school board (or any such organization) in these highly polarized times. My guest, Dr. Katy Anthes, did just that as Colorado’s Commissioner of Education from 2016 to 2023 by building trust, getting leaders to agree on norms about how they would disagree, and developing a common vision of education that members of her state board could embrace. Rather than avoiding sharp disagreements over questions about standardized testing, state standards, and how history should be taught, she leaned into “healthy conflict”— the kind that is productive and allows for progress even among those with opposing perspectives. Anthes addresses a question, around the 17-minute mark, that she often encounters: When finding a middle ground is needed to move things forward, do we have to compromise our values and beliefs? A question she’s still pondering: How to navigate complex and contentious issues in the presence of “conflict entrepreneurs”—those who promote conflict for their own financial or political gain. Tune in and learn from one of our country's most effective educational leaders. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Meet Aaron Stark - Almost a School Shooter (Ep. 32) 40:24

32 weeks ago40:24

40:24

Ever wonder what goes on in the mind of a school shooter? Or, why someone chooses to kill innocent people? My guest, Aaron Stark, was ready to commit mass murder but decided, at the last minute, not to follow through with his plan. He also chose not to kill himself. In this episode, you’ll hear Aaron’s harrowing story of abuse, neglect, and trauma, and you’ll find out what it took to prevent yet another tragedy that would have contributed to America’s epidemic of gun violence. There’s no doubt that mental health services are a vital part of the solution, but in Aaron’s case, it was a friend who extended kindness and compassion - someone who saw Aaron as “a good person with a crap life” - that made the difference. So many questions to ponder. Here’s one for educators: In these hyper-polarized times when it’s so easy (and perversely rewarding) to bully others on social media, what will it take to get people to treat others, especially those who are struggling, with kindness rather than cruelty? Tune in to hear Aaron’s harrowing story and what he thinks will make a difference. Here’s a clue: Convince people “to give love to the ones that you think deserve it the least because they need it the most .” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Better Mental Health Can Reduce Gun Violence in Schools. Do We Have the Will to Promote It? Part 2 (Ep. 31) 26:20

37 weeks ago26:20

26:20

One day after interviewing clinical psychologist Hayley Watson for Part 1 of this two-part series about the need for better mental health support in schools, Colt Gray, a 14-year-old student at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia walked onto campus with a military-style rifle and killed two other students and two math teachers. He also injured at least 8 others before he was taken into custody. According to the shooter’s aunt Annie Brown , had been “begging for help from everyone around him.” Colt’s father, who has now been charged with several serious crimes, said that his son was “getting picked on at school,” and that other students “just ridiculed him day after day after day.” Key takeaways from my conversation with Dr. Watson: The need to understand the shooter's perspective and the factors that may have contributed to his actions, rather than simply labeling him as "evil." The lack of adequate mental health resources and support for students who are struggling, and the importance of preventative measures such as teaching coping skills and promoting social-emotional learning. The trauma experienced (not just in Georgia but across the country) by the entire school community, including students, teachers, and families, and the need to provide spaces for processing and healing. The importance of ongoing conversations and emotional support, rather than focusing exclusively on security measures or avoiding the issue altogether. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Better Mental Health Can Reduce Gun Violence in Schools. Do We Have the Will to Promote It? Part 1 (Ep. 30) 41:56

37 weeks ago41:56

41:56

Immediately following the fatal shooting of two students and two math teachers at Apalachee High School in Georgia, the predictable debate over gun laws ensued. Less prominent were calls for another remedy for school gun violence that can have an immediate impact and, surprisingly, is not politically polarizing: mental health support. Colt Gray, the 14-year-old shooter had been “begging for help from everyone around him,” according to his aunt Annie Brown . It appears he was unable to find it. Unfortunately, students like Gray are not alone. As the need for students’ mental health support has grown, mental health services in schools have declined sharply in recent years. Just 48 percent of the nation’s public schools report that they can meet their students’ mental health needs, according to a recent EdWeek report . My guest for this episode is Dr. Hayley Watson, a clinical psychologist with deep and personal knowledge of the mental health challenges students face. In this, the first of two episodes with Dr. Watson, she describes some of the factors, including bullying, that contribute to poor mental health, the effects it can have on student well-being and academic performance, and the skills that students can learn to better cope with emotionally challenging situations. Dr. Watson also shares the harrowing story from her own childhood that led to trauma that she kept secret for many years. This story ultimately instilled a passion for helping young people facing similar experiences. The school shooting at Apalachee High School occurred just one day after I recorded this interview. Dr. Watson joined me again for a follow-up conversation just a few days later to talk, specifically, about what educators can do to prevent gun violence and how they can help students, families, and their colleagues cope with the fear and the trauma so many across the country are feeling in the wake of this unspeakable tragedy. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Rich Harwood Rocks My World! (Ep. 29) 51:18

43 weeks ago51:18

51:18

Rich Harwood knows a thing or two about depolarizing communities. He’s been doing it—successfully—for over 30 years, which is why I wanted to probe his thinking about the widening divides and the worrisome rise of culture wars that are threatening our public schools. Let me simply say, Rich rocked my world! Despite the extensive reading I’ve done on the subject and the interviews I’ve conducted with several conflict experts, I learned something new about the dynamics of conflict. And, more importantly, I learned some practical strategies one could use to help build stronger, healthier school communities—even prevent culture wars in deeply divided communities. A key takeaway for me is where to start conversations with school stakeholders. Rich suggests not jumping in around the hot issue that is dividing them (like Critical Race Theory, or DEI, library books, or race), but by having people share their dreams and aspirations for their children—by reframing the conversation around what they are for rather than what they are against . Amazingly, this can sometimes cause a hot issue, the type that can rapidly escalate into a full-blown culture war, to simply dissolve away (or be taken up later under better conditions) as those at odds with one another re-focus their collective energy on what they want to build together for their children. Pie-in-the-sky, Pollyanna fluff? Not really. As Rich explains, this is precisely what happened in Reading, Pennsylvania where mounting tensions over school policies dissipated after he and his team reframed the conversations around their shared visions for the future. And, as you will hear in one of the stories I share, I stumbled on the same phenomenon when I was invited in by a superintendent to defuse tensions among the district’s board and its administrative team. This insight about conflict and change is just one of several I learned during my interview with Rich. You will have to tune in to the whole episode to hear the others. You won’t be disappointed. Ken Futernick (Host) Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Middie Rising - A City Unites and Defuses a School Culture War (Ep. 1 of 3) 21:58

45 weeks ago21:58

21:58

This is the first of three episodes about the unusual steps school leaders in Middletown, Ohio took to defuse tensions over race issues and health policies. These tensions could have led to a full-blown culture war - the kind of knock-down, drag out clashes that have pitted educators, parents, and even students against one another in a growing number of school districts across the country. In this episode you will hear why police had been called in to maintain order at a pivotal school board meeting in 2021. You’ll hear the voices of angry parents accusing Marlon Styles, the district’s first Black superintendent, of promoting racist practices in the district’s schools. And, you’ll hear others condemn the school board for violating students’ rights with their mandatory mask policy. In the second episode, you will learn about Superintendent Styles’ unusual response to the allegations. Instead of fighting back, he listened to his critics, asked for help, and rallied the city’s “quiet majority.” These counterintuitive steps defused the smoldering culture war, enabling the district to focus on other serious challenges affecting student learning. In the third episode, you will hear from Middletown’s community leaders and several outside observers who reflect on the tangible lessons this story teaches and the “credible” hope it offers to school and community leaders across the country. One of these observers is Amanda Ripley, author of the New York Time s bestselling book, High Conflict - Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out , who said, “I love the story because we desperately need examples of how people and communities manage to get out of dysfunctional conflict…The only way to learn is by finding these outliers of ‘positive deviance,’ communities that managed to not implode in conflict and learn from what they did.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Middie Rising - A City Unites and Defuses a School Culture War (Ep. 2 of 3) 26:20

45 weeks ago26:20

26:20

In this second of three episodes about a culture war simmering in Middletown, Ohio, we learn how Superintendent Styles responds to allegations of racism and violations of students’ rights because of health mandates. Hint: He didn’t fight back. Instead, he listened to his critics. He then asked for help from the community’s “quiet majority,” a group he called “the Positive Gossipers,” and members of the Middletown Area Ministerial Alliance These counterintuitive steps helped to defuse the conflict and ultimately enabled the district to focus on serious challenges affecting student learning. The current administration, the Board recently launched “Middie Minutes Matter,” an initiative designed to reduce the high levels of chronic student absenteeism in the district. And they are receiving assistance from the same group of community leaders that supported the district was faced with a polarizing conflict. Tune in to the third and final episode to hear from Middletown’s community leaders and several outside observers who reflect on the tangible lessons this story teaches. One of these observers is Amanda Ripley, author of the New York Time s bestselling book, High Conflict - Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out , who said, “I love the story because we desperately need examples of how people and communities manage to get out of dysfunctional conflict.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Middie Rising - A City Unites and Defuses a School Culture War (Ep. 3 of 3) 41:11

45 weeks ago41:11

41:11

In the final episode of this series, several people reflect on the lessons learned from Middletown’s successful efforts to avoid a costly culture war and to unify around an inclusive vision of education that all of its students. In addition to Middletown’s community leaders who share their takeaways from this story, Amanda Ripley, an internationally recognized expert on conflict, provides powerful insights into the less visible dynamics at play. Trudy Palmer, the Christian Science Monitor’s cover story editor, explains why this story offers “credible hope" for communities looking for tangible ways to unify and discover common ground. Finally, we hear from Dr. Carl Cohn, an experienced urban superintendent who explains why the lessons learned from the Middletown story are vital for school leaders across the country. Key lessons: Building and maintaining healthy relationships within a community, especially before a crisis occurs, is crucial to preventing and managing conflicts. Creating ongoing opportunities for authentic dialogue among educators, board members, parents, and students is essential to fostering trust and healthy conflict. Journalists and media outlets should strive to go beyond reporting exclusively on conflict and outrage and to cover stories, like this one in Middletown, that provide “credible hope” for change. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Bridging Youth Divides Through Morning Classroom Conversations (Ep. 25) 33:37

1 year ago33:37

33:37

This podcast usually focuses on how adults can have less contentious, more fruitful conversations about schools, but my two guests on this episode have plenty to say about the need to strengthen communication and relationships among young people . In fact, Nina Murphy and Kellie Dromboski (along with Maurice Elias) have written a book on the subject called, Morning Classroom Conversations. They show how devoting just 15 minutes each day for genuine conversation can have significant social, emotional, and academic benefits. By creating “brave spaces” for student conversation, students learn how limiting, even damaging, modern day interactions can be. “Without that perspective, many young people’s view of themselves and their future is at the mercy of how their social media communications are made and responded to. As we know all too well, this can take the extreme form of making adolescents hypersensitive to cyberbullying—even to the point of anxiety, depression, of suicidality,” they write. And to educators who say, “We have so much to cover, especially with the learning loss from the pandemic, that we don’t have time to add one more thing into our day,” Murphy, a school psychologist, says (around the 25:20 mark), “It takes more time when we don’t do it because of the time it takes to recover from all of the other difficulties students are having.” She says high school teachers at her school frequently tell her, “…they’ve had to stop a lesson because so-and-so was crying or because this one would not stop acting out or wouldn’t get off the phone…When you create that classroom community, you’re going to see less and less of those behaviors.” Their book contains a wealth of resources to help educators integrate morning conversations into their schools and classrooms. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Politics in the Classroom in these Divided Times? Now More Than Ever, says Educator Diana Hess (Ep. 24) 32:16

1 year ago32:16

32:16

It’s April 2024. Polarization in America is at an all-time high, and another highly contentious election season is fast approaching. Fears about teacher bias and the undue influence they might have over their students has raised suspicions among parents and has led several states to restrict what teachers can discuss with their students — like “divisive concepts” or subject matter that might cause students to feel anguish or discomfort because of their race. In response, many teachers now avoid controversial topics for fear they might be fired or lose their teaching licenses. Some have even quit because the restrictions and the suspicion about their motives has made their already challenging jobs even more difficult. My guest, Dr. Diana Hess, an educator and researcher who has studied teacher-student interactions, opposes this trend. “I think the job that we have as teachers is to help students understand the political environment in which they live. What are the important current events, what more importantly are the important controversial issues? And I don't think that we can really have a democracy that's going to be sustained without that.” She goes on to say that teachers should not only be permitted to discuss politics and controversial topics with their students, they should be required to do so. “I don't think we can have high quality civic education without current events and controversial issues.” Hess believes that if concerned parents and policy makers actually spent time in classrooms observing how the vast majority of teachers approach politics and controversies with their students, they’d be pleasantly surprised. “What we know from a lot of empirical evidence,” Hess says, “is that a teacher’s goal…is not to have students adopt their perspective. That is not why people go into teaching…When people go into teaching, they tend to say, ‘I really want to make sure that my students understand what's happening and that my students know enough to form their own views on the political issues of the day,’” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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A Conversation with Daniel Buck-Defender of the Education Culture Wars (Ep. 23) 42:06

1 year ago42:06

42:06

When Daniel Buck’s article, “In Defense of the Education Culture Wars,” appeared in my news feed, I thought, Is this guy kidding? Is he seriously arguing that the culture wars are a good thing for schools? Turns out he was, which made me think, I have to get this guy on my show . Buck agreed to join me, and what you’ll hear in this conversation is him explaining his thesis, my making sure I understood his argument, and then me offering my reasons for believing the opposite - that culture wars, like most wars, usually do far more harm than good. But then what became apparent, as is often the case when people are at odds, is that each of us ascribed different meanings to “culture war." By the end of the conversation, after clarifying our definitions, we discovered that we agreed on a lot - that educators, parents, and often students, should be having conversations on matters that impact schools and students - like how and when students should learn about gender and sexual identity or the books and movies they should have access to. These things shouldn’t be swept under the rug just to avoid conflict, but (and this was my argument) nor should the conversations be free-for-all, no holds barred, vitriolic shouting matches where nobody listens, nobody wins, and the best the combatants can say is, “We fought the good fight!” What often happens in culture wars is that trust is lost and anger and suspicion toward teachers rises. Then, many of them end of quitting , a terrible consequence that couldn't be any more harmful for students since many schools already suffer from severe shortages. Buck and I ended up agreeing on some key points while disagreeing on others. But as Mahatma Ghandi once said, “Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Do Discomfort, Anguish, and Divisive Concepts Belong in the Classroom? A Conversation about Free Speech in Public Schools (Ep. 22) 51:34

1 year ago51:34

51:34

Since 2020, nearly 20 states have passed legislation prohibiting public school educators from teaching “divisive concepts” or any content that might cause students to feel “discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress” because of their race or sex. Florida and several other states have also adopted new policies that ban instruction about gender and sexual identity, and teachers who violate these policies can be sued, fired and, in some cases, have their licenses to teach revoked. Critics say these laws violate free speech protections, and participants in this episode say they limit opportunities for students to have civil and productive conversations about issues that may, at times, be controversial or unsettling. “It's impossible to teach history in a way that'll make sure nobody's ever feeling uncomfortable,” says history professor Sophia Rosenfeld. “Slavery, for instance, is a fact of American history. If you leave it out of the curriculum, you've misrepresented our past. It's bound to make people feel uncomfortable…It should make people feel uncomfortable.” Deborah Appleman, a professor of education and former high school teacher, adds, “You can't learn about the Holocaust or learn about slavery without feeling discomfort, guilt, and anguish.” Libby Snowden, a college senior, offers this perspective: “A lot of the terms used in that legislation tend to be very broad and lead to a chilling effect … where we have teachers who are afraid to bring up certain topics in class because they don't know what counts as divisive or inappropriate for the age group. I think that really speaks to the value of the local community, school boards, parents being involved and really having conversations about what is being taught in classrooms. We have shifting cultural norms right now. It is becoming much more socially acceptable to have gay characters in children's movies, gay characters in books...It's really important to engage with each other about how we are going to handle that in our schools.” Snowden also believes students must feel comfortable sharing unpopular opinions. “I can think of situations in high school where somebody expressed a viewpoint in class, and even if it wasn't maybe pounced on in the moment, there was chatter in the hallways, there were social media posts, word would get around. I definitely think it is the responsibility of the teacher to set the expectations and the ground rules.” Later, speaking about her current experience as a college students, Snowden says, “I've been really lucky. I've gotten to be involved in an organization that's all about free speech and intellectual diversity on campus. Every week we host events that we bring in largely conservative speakers on an otherwise very liberal-minded campus. It's awesome. People come in, listen to the speaker, and hear what they have to say. We don't get disrupted when we have question and answer. We have respectful questions, and even if they are challenging, they're asked in good faith.” Appleman says these kinds of learning experiences must begin when children are young. “If students don't learn how to do it early on, then no wonder they have issues expressing themselves freely and with civility when they're in high school and college. I don't think it's ever too early to teach kids, number one, to speak their mind and two, to not hurt people when they're doing it.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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When Homeschooling Fails Should the Government Step In? (Ep. 21) 46:43

1 year ago46:43

46:43

According to a recent Washington Post article , homeschooling is the fastest growing form of education in America. As many as 2.7 million students are currently being homeschooled. One of my guests, Heidi Sampson, is a veteran homeschooling parent from Maine and a four-term Republican legislator. She concedes that homeschooling is not for everyone but says, “The overwhelming evidence nationally for homeschooling is the fact that there's an opportunity for students to excel.” Another guest, Nicole Doyle, a leader of the Georgia Black Home Educators Network in Georgia, says homeschooling is a form of “resistance” to people who blame Black parents for their children's poor educational performance. Homeschooling is also a way for Black families to ensure their children receive a culturally relevant education, she says. What makes homeschooling controversial is that fact that the U.S. regulates it less than any other industrialized nation. In many states, homeschooling parents can simply educate as they wish with their children. They are not required to follow a curriculum or to administer academic assessments. As such, they are not accountable for what their children learn. This is how it should be, parent rights advocates argue, but some, like Weston Brown who was homeschooled in Texas, has a different perspective. “I absolutely believe that there should be regulation, that there should be oversight...I grew up hearing the phrase ‘the rights of the parents’ over and over and over again, and it wasn't until I was in my early twenties that, for the first time, I heard, ‘What about the rights of the child to a basic education?’” Weston believes his parent’s intentions were good, but he expressed deep concern about the education they provided. “I learned things like the enslavement of millions of people was necessary for America's growth. I didn't know about of any of the key leaders of the civil rights movement.” Samantha Field also expressed regret about her homeschooling experience. “My parents didn't know how to teach me any form of basic math beyond basic arithmetic. And once I reached algebra in high school, I was forced to try to teach myself. I was unsuccessful but attributed my inability to do that to being a woman, as I had been taught that women were innately incapable of understanding higher math.” Heidi, the lawmaker from Maine, empathizes with Weston and Samantha, calling their stories “heart wrenching." She says there should be a way to “mitigate” homeschooling experiences like theirs, but cautions against government overreach. “The more you regulate, the more you're going to have issues and problems,” she says. What inspired me most about this conversation is that my guests - each with vastly different experiences and perspectives - listened, empathized, and were eager to learn more from one another. At the end of this conversation, Heidi said, “I have a lot of thoughts, a lot of takeaways…I could sit down with each one of you and just listen and just explore ideas…I think I have a pretty good feel of what's going on here in Maine, but to hear the different cultures is exciting…How do we best serve all these different cultures in the United States to homeschool their children to the best of their ability and give those children every opportunity to shoot for the stars?” Weston said, “I love having this conversation…and it could go on for hours.” To set the stage for this civil exchange I started the conversation by asking each guest to describe a teacher who had a positive impact on their life. I didn’t include their responses in the episode, but starting with personal stories, as I do Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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A Courageous Conversation with a Transgender Educator (Ep. 20) 50:03

1 year ago50:03

50:03

Most of us have opinions about transgender people and, perhaps, about the controversial policies affecting transgender students - like ones requiring teachers to notify parents if their students are using names that do not match their birth gender. But few of us have ever had a real, in-depth conversation with a transgender person where we have gotten a chance to hear their personal story or their perspectives on policies affecting students. This is why I decided to interview Bobbie Glass, a 72-year old transgender woman from Kentucky who has been an educator for most of her career - to hear from someone whose experiences most of us really know next to nothing. No matter your views on the subject, I promise you will learn something new and be moved by Bobbie’s personal story. I suspect you may also reconsider your perspectives on the role educators play with trans students and with the way other students treat those who differ from the norm. If you enjoyed this episode you might also want to listen to Monica Guzman’s podcast ( https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-can-we-disagree-better/id1709364674?i=1000633976565 ) with Spencer Cox, the Republican governor of Utah, and Troy Williams, the head of a LGBTQ rights organization in Utah. They discuss how civil dialogue and empathy led one of America’s most conservative states to pass legislation supporting Utah’s transgender residents. You can also hear my interview with Monica about the culture wars in education at https://www.schoolconversations.org/episodes/monica-guzman. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Breaking Through - A Compton High School Teacher Discovers a Way to Bridge Toxic Divides - Part 2 (Ep. 19) 56:18

2 years ago56:18

56:18

In Part 2 of this story, high school students and a parent discuss their experiences participating in an innovative program called SEND (Student Empathy Network for Diversity) designed by Compton High School teacher, Jason Morgan, to strengthen relationships among students and parents from different parts of Los Angeles. ( Listen to Part 1 ) Aaron Butler, a recent graduate from a high school in Compton, describes one of the first SEND activities with people from another community. “My mom and my dad came and we all met up and went on this hike. And it was honestly a beautiful experience going up the mountain and talking to new people from different backgrounds. It was just honestly new to me…You could see everybody getting like their little groups and talking to other people. And it was honestly an amazing experience.” And this is what Catherine Borek, a parent of one of the SEND students (and also a teacher in Compton), said about the hike that Aaron describes and the value of moving together: “The pattern I'm seeing right now is nature-movement, nature-movement. We do things together when we move together, when we're in nature together. There's this sort of awe that comes of that, and it's really hard to not see yourself as part of a Grand Collective. And not just me, me, me. It's all about that community. And that's what I really love about this program- how it inspires this sort of awe of the world. At the end of this episode, participants offer advice for people who might want to create programs like SEND in their communities. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Breaking Through - A Compton High School Teacher Discovers a Way to Bridge Toxic Divides - Part 1 (Ep. 18) 44:26

2 years ago44:26

44:26

In Part 1 of this story, Jason Morgan, a high school math teacher from Compton, California, describes the innovative program he created called SEND (Student Empathy Network for Diversity) that was designed to strengthen relationships among students and parents in different parts of Los Angeles. “I was talking with my neighbor during the height of like the George Floyd, murder,” Mr. Morgan recalls. “And we were talking about how it's gonna be really hard for communities to come together because we don't live with each other…but I thought about how can we bring our youth together in different settings, so that our youth could actually develop this empathy with communities that they normally would not engage with.” What’s fascinating about this story is how many of the bridging strategies that previous guests on this podcast have described have played a role in Mr. Morgan’s SEND program. Like contact theory that journalist Amanda Ripley talks about where strangers (and even adversaries) spend time with each other on their own turf, often solving problems together. Or, what my guest Peter Coleman talks about in his book about toxic polarization - the critical role that physical movement plays in strengthening relationships and building empathy. In Part 2 of this story, students (and a parent) talk about their experiences participating in SEND. One student, Max, said this about the program: “I think whenever you get the chance to just be with people who think differently, who live differently, do it…I've learned so much just being around people who are different than me…seeing how they live life rather than maybe how I think their life is like…The more you can just be with different people, the better you're gonna understand this world.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Can Educators Prevent Racism in Schools? Diverse Perspectives, Lively Conversation (Ep. 17) 52:53

2 years ago52:53

52:53

Racist acts on school campuses are rising fast. Incidents of hate crimes and physical attacks with a weapon nearly doubled between the 2015-16 and 2017-18 school years. In the 2017-18 school year, schools reported nearly 6,000 hate crimes, according to the US Government Accountability Office. These are criminal acts, not what some people refer to as racial micro-aggressions, which by many accounts occur with great regularity in some schools. In this episode, a politically diverse group of guests discuss two provocative questions: 1) What can educators do to prevent racism? and 2) What should they do when it happens? Controversy arises because they touch on hot-button issues like Critical Race Theory (i.e., teaching about systemic racism, which has been banned in many states) and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs that have come under fire recently because, according to some, they promote racism rather than reduce it. A conservative parent rights advocate, a high school student committed to educational equity, a progressive university educator, and the leader of young republicans in Texas share their own experiences with racism before taking up the controversial questions about how to prevent and respond to it. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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The Pushback Against Social Emotional Learning. Where it's Coming from and How it Hurts Children (Part 2 with Stephanie Krauss) (Ep. 16) 24:55

2 years ago24:55

24:55

In part 2 of this episode, host Ken Futernick continues his conversation with author Stephanie Krauss about Social Emotional Learning (SEL) and her new book, Whole Child, Whole Life. They explore the growing pushback from conservative policy organizations, like the American Enterprise Institute, and from parent rights advocates like Stephanie McWilliams who says, “Social Emotional Learning is the latest craze that is taking over our education across our country. It is a program that schools are adopting to shift the school culture and educate what they call the whole child…They assume the role of parents essentially by using brainwashing techniques and role playing to teach children how to think and feel about life.”Krauss concedes that teachers are not always adequately prepared to promote Social Emotional Learning. “In my own children's lives, even though I have been involved nationally in social emotional learning for years, I have been pretty disappointed with some of the SEL I programs that they've experienced,” she says. Futernick says the fact that SEL is not always practiced well can be true of any educational practice - teaching children how to read or to do mathematics. But, he says, this alone is not a reason to construct an indictment of teachers or of the subjects they are attempting to teach.In trying to get at the source of the resistance to SEL, Krauss is reminded of the book, Switch, whose authors argue that lack of clarity about an idea often leads to confusion. That confusion can then lead to contempt. Krauss speculates that confusion about SEL could be the cause of the contempt that Stephanie McWilliams and others have for this educational approach. Futernick raises the possibility of a more sinister explanation - that misinformation and confusion about SEL may not be due to poor messaging from educators, but instead of the work of what journalist Amanda Ripley calls “conflict entrepreneurs” - people who manufacture crises in local communities, who deliberately instill fear and pit groups against one another for political or financial gain.Krauss does not dismiss this more disturbing possibility. “[I]f I was a bad guy and I was looking at a long game, a multi-generational strategy, one of the best ways to take down and break down the democracy or a neighborhood or nation would be to really mess up its kids,” she says. “And in this moment, our kids need social and emotional support more than they ever have before. And if we allow confusion and contempt to get in the way of providing those supports and removing those supports from the places where they spend the most of their time, we are engaging in life-threatening practices. And so before we do that, it's worth the risk and the discomfort of coming together to figure out what we actually mean when we talk about social emotional development.” Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Thriving in Turbulent Times: Why Social Emotional Learning (SEL) is Essential (Part 1 with Stephanie Krauss) (Ep. 15) 27:47

2 years ago27:47

27:47

Host Ken Futernick speaks with Stephanie Krauss, author of the new book, Whole Child, Whole Life - 10 Ways to Help Kids Live, Learn, and Thrive. In Part I of this episode, Krauss, a former teacher with years of experience doing social work, explains why she wrote the book and why it’s especially relevant right now for parents and educators.“We're at a moment where young people are experiencing an unprecedented mental health crisis and being impacted in profound emotional ways,” she says. “They have lost so many social health opportunities from multiple years in the pandemic, which has also compromised their learning…There has never been a more important time to support the social and emotional development in skill development of kids.”When asked about the recent pushback to Social Emotional Learning (SEL), Krauss says, “We've taken this three letter acronym (SEL)and weaponized it as the next CRT (Critical Race Theory). And, there are folks on both sides of the aisle to blame here because when that happened, there were people who dug their heels in and began defending the acronym and defending the programming wholesale without recognizing real limitations that those of us who've been in the work for a long time already knew existed.”In Part II of this episode, Futernick and Krauss discuss why this seemingly innocuous call to teach the whole child - what we for decades we referred to as “citizenship” - has found its way to the center of today’s culture wars in education. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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The Latest Culture War Dustup: Balancing Parent Rights With Student Rights (Ep. 14) 1:17:14

2 years ago1:17:14

1:17:14

Host Ken Futernick and his guests strive for civil dialogue around a contentious debate playing out across the country: What rights should parents of public school students have when it comes to what’s taught, the books students have access to, and the policies educators must follow? Ken’s guests, which include parents, a high school student, and two school board members, discuss their views on these related questions: What rights do students have and what if they conflict with parents’ rights? What rights do the people of a state (or of our nation) have when it comes to the education students receive in our public schools?Tune in and see what happens when we turn down the volume and people agree to listen to one another on these complex questions. " Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Taking a Stand Against Antisemitism in Schools (Ep. 13) 1:04:32

2 years ago1:04:32

1:04:32

Antisemitism in America is on the rise. In 2022, the Anti-Defamation League reported a 50% increase in antisemitic acts in schools over the previous year. In this episode, two students from Montgomery County, Maryland discuss the impact of recent antisemitic acts at their high school. One of them, Rachel Barold, was the target of a particularly vile and terrifying incident. Drawing attention from national media, she led a walkout at her school in which hundreds of her classmates and several community leaders called upon district leaders to do more to prevent hateful acts toward Jewish students. Joining them are a parent, a teacher educator, and a Rutgers University professor who has devoted much of his career studying what educators can do to promote the kind of character that is needed in a democratic society. Professor Elias says creating safe and caring schools should be a top priority for educators and administrators. This entails cultivating an environment where all students feel secure, supported, and valued, regardless of their background or culture. This can be fostered through character education, social-emotional learning, and ongoing professional development for teachers and staff—practices that ensure that students feel included and understood. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Overcoming Toxic Polarization in our Schools with Peter Coleman (Ep. 12) 54:02

2 years ago54:02

54:02

Peter Coleman, a renowned expert on constructive conflict resolution, shares valuable insights about the sharp rise of polarization in America and the divisive culture wars that plague our schools. He is the authorof the book, The Way Out: How to Overcome Toxic Polarization. After decades of political division, Coleman says Americans today are tired of the dysfunction and the toxic conflicts. “The good news,” he says, “is that most Americans - the exhausted majority - are fed up with the craziness…and are ready for something else.”Coleman believes the culture wars in education are partly a function of America’s deepening polarization but also of deliberate, organized efforts by outsiders to promote conflict and fear and to oversimplify complex educational problems. In addition, people who have no power are frustrated because they spend most of their time listening to others in positions of authority. Those people “really need to be heard in order for their attitudes to shift.” One of the most useful things authority figures can do, Coleman says with a bit of a laugh, “is to shut up and listen.” Coleman also urges school officials to focus on dialogue rather than debate. “[D]ebate is a game about winning and scoring points and ultimately walking away the winner…Dialogue is the opposite. Dialogue is a process of discovery, of learning, of listening, of hearing the other's story.” What schools may need, he suggests, “are chief listening officers [whose] role is to respectfully listen and collect information from people and then feed it back to the decision making process.”Despite the worrisome rise in polarization, Coleman is optimistic about the future. He believes coalitions are emerging to take back schools, workplaces and communities from the extreme voices and the outsiders promoting their political agendas. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Political Opposites Square Off on Schools, Gender, and Sexuality (Ep. 11) 1:13:29

2 years ago1:13:29

1:13:29

What role should schools play when it comes to gender and sexuality? What books should students have access to? What topics should teachers and students be able to discuss? What kind of support should LGBTQ students be able to expect from their schools? These questions have become the focus of intense debate among parents, educators, students, and policy makers. Not surprisingly, conversations among those who disagree are seldom civil or productive. Board meetings have devolved into war zones, and battle lines are being drawn as parents are being told their rights are being violated. As the culture wars rage on, it is hard to imagine how anyone (save the few who simply relish conflict) would think the toxic conflicts playing out in our schools are a good thing for our students or our country. I wanted to find out if the use of some depolarizing strategies might make it possible to host a civil conversation about schools, gender, and sexuality with political opposites and even to find some common ground. My first guest, Willie Carver, is an openly gay, veteran high school teacher who was selected as Teacher of the Year for the state of Kentucky in 2021. Mr. Carver (whom I interviewed in October 2022) quit because of the harassment he and some of his colleagues received from a small group of parents. My second guest, Dov Fischer, is a law professor, an orthodox Jewish rabbi, and a political conservative. In a 2022 editorial in California’s Orange County Register, Fischer spoke out against policies that allow students to designate their gender identities. In Fischer’s view, this is yet another effort by the government to divide families, and he thinks parents, not educators, should be the ones to mentor children on matters of gender. Tune in to find out what happens. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Book Bans Exposed: Who Decides What Students Can Read? (Ep. 10) 1:03:45

2 years ago1:03:45

1:03:45

In 2021-22, 138 school districts in 32 states banned more than 2500 books, affecting close to 4 million students. according to EdWeek. In some cases, books are removed because they are deemed by some to be pornographic. In other cases, book bans were prompted by themes considered inappropriate by local decision-makers. Forty-one percent of the books removed from school libraries last year contained LGBTQ characters. Books with prominent characters of color accounted for 40% of the books banned by local school boards. Can people with opposing views on this highly contentious issue listen to one another, have a civil conversation, and even find some common ground? Listen in and find out. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Calming the Culture Wars in our Schools with Journalist Monica Guzman (Ep. 9) 21:44

3 years ago21:44

21:44

In the end, nobody wins the culture wars, says journalist Monica Guzman. The surprising key to overcoming these conflicts is to become curious rather than confrontational — to reframe the us/them confusion with complexity. Guzman also urges us to reject the easy answers — the sense of certainty many of us feel that we have all of the answers and they don’t. Becoming curious means, we must become better listeners. Real listening, Guzman says, demonstrates that we understand and care about what others are thinking. Too often, we’re only interested in conveying what we believe and trying to win arguments. When we listen, people begin to open up and take risks, and that’s when real progress is made. Tune in to hear more of what Guzman thinks will enable us to escape the toxic divides over our schools. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Weston Brown's Story: A Family and School Tragedy (Ep. 8) 39:57

3 years ago39:57

39:57

Weston Brown was homeschooled in Dallas, Texas and had limited access to the internet, books, television, and the outside world. At age 24, he mustered the courage to tell his parents that he was gay. Their reaction was not unexpected, he said. “They thought that I was mentally ill or demonically possessed.” Brown had no intentions of battling his parents over their anti-LGBTQ views -- until, that is, he viewed a viral video of his mother demanding that a local school board in Texas remove library books that she considered pornographic or that promoted LGBTQ themes. She also urged the Board to have a local pastor decide which books should remain in the schools’ libraries. In this episode, Brown describes the painful estrangement from his parents and siblings and why he decided to speak out against his mother’s efforts to ban books in public school libraries. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Forbidden Topics: Are Schools Hiding the Truth from Students? (Ep. 7) 59:24

3 years ago59:24

59:24

Remember the classroom discussions of current events and controversial topics? They were opportunities to learn what was happening in the world, hear opposing perspectives, and formulate our own opinions. Recently, however, several states have passed laws restricting these discussions. In some cases, teachers are forbidden from discussing any issue that might cause students to feel anguish or discomfort. According to a 2022 study by Rand Corporation, “14 states had enacted some kind of state-level restriction on teachers’ ability to engage in classroom conversations about race, racism, and other forms of bias.” That study also found that a significant number of teachers oppose these restrictions and are experiencing high levels of stress over the meaning of these new laws because of fear of what might happen if they do not comply.In this fascinating conversation, a politically diverse panel discusses the place current events and controversial topics should have in the curriculum. Panelists also weigh in on two related questions: Who should determine what’s taught in public schools, and what role should parents play? Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Taming the Culture Wars with Journalist Amanda Ripley (Ep. 6) 41:42

3 years ago41:42

41:42

Best-selling author Amanda Ripley has devoted much of her career studying and writing about conflict. In this interview, Ripley suggests ways to respond to the “conflict entrepreneurs” that are fueling the culture wars in education, and she explains what it will take to shift from “high conflict” – the kind that wreaks havoc on relationships and public discourse -- to “healthy conflict” that schools and all of our public institutions need to thrive.Ripley has written for Time Magazine, The Atlantic, the Washington Post and numerous other publications. Her most recent book is High Conflict – Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Culture Wars Claim an Educational Hero: The Tragic Departure of Teacher of the Year Willie Carver (Ep. 5) 43:05

3 years ago43:05

43:05

America’s culture wars are driving great teachers out of the classroom, exacerbating a shortage that has reached critical levels in most states. The story of Willie Carver, an English and French high school teacher from Kentucky, is especially tragic. He was selected as the state’s teacher of the year in 2022 and honored recently with 49 other outstanding teachers at the White House. He was beloved by his students and colleagues. But Carver is also an openly gay teacher and the recent hostility toward LGBTQ educators and students simply became too much for him. In this episode Carver explains why he made the painful decision to leave the classroom. Three of his student also describe what it was like having him as their teacher. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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Gender and Sexual Identity in Schools: A Battle at the Epicenter of the Culture Wars (Ep. 4) 49:58

3 years ago49:58

49:58

SInce 2022 the number of new bills affecting LGBTQ students and how teachers are allowed to talk and teach about issues related to gender and sexual identity have skyrocketed. These bills and the larger question of the school’s role regarding to gender and sexual identity have generated considerable controversy among educators, parents, and the public at large. On one side are those who believe discussions about gender and sexual identity shouldn’t take place in the classroom. This sentiment was reflected in a statement by one of our guests, Meg Kilgannon, who said, “Let equipped parents have these conversations with their children.”On the other side are those who believe that as students learn about diversity and respect for others in school, they must learn about differences in gender and sexual identity. Many also argue that LGBTQ students must have a safe and supportive learning environment, especially given the high number who suffer emotionally and socially as a result of bullying and prejudice. As long-time educator, David Thomas expressed, “Parents give us the best that they have, but… for a lot of students who are gay, their first bullies are their parents.”The central questions guiding this Courageous Conversation are this: What role should schools play regarding policies, instruction, and classroom discussions related to sexual and gender identity? How can schools respect the rights of parents while also ensuring that students are well-supported and have a safe place to learn? Even though many of our guests didn’t always see eye to eye, they all agreed that more respectful conversations about topics like this need to continue. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

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High School Students Weigh in on Race. Are their Elected Officials Listening? (Ep. 3) 39:03

3 years ago39:03

39:03

High school students on Kentucky’s Student Voice Team discuss findings and recommendations in their report, "Race to Learn." But many of these students are frustrated because some of their recommendations cannot be implemented because of restrictions in new state laws. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

1
How Students Learn about Race and Racism is Dividing Our Country (Ep. 2) 37:56

3 years ago37:56

37:56

Never before have Americans been so deeply divided about how history, current events, and controversial issues should be discussed in our public schools. At the center of these debates are questions about race and racism – what exactly students should learn about these concepts, how the concepts should be taught, and what the outcomes should be. The views and political perspectives of our guests vary widely (by design), but the purpose of the conversation is not to debate or argue but rather to have a respectful exchange of ideas, for participants to speak from the heart and to share their own experiences and perspectives. Most importantly, it’s to listen and learn from one another. Let us know what you think with a text message.…

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools

1
Are Teachers Really Indoctrinating Students? (Ep. 1) 45:37

3 years ago45:37