UiPath CEO Daniel Dines On AI Agents Replacing Our Jobs Decoder With Nilay Patel podcast

58:59

A few days ago, I hosted a panel with FTC commissioners Rebecca Slaughter and Alvaro Bedoya at the IAPP Global Privacy Summit in Washington, DC. We recorded the discussion, and we’re bringing it to you today. Normal Decoder stuff, but these are anything but normal times. Becca and Alvaro were FTC commissioners until very recently, when President Donald Trump fired them — but he doesn't have that legal authority. They’re suing to get their jobs back, and they’re prepared to go all the way to SCOTUS if they have to. Links: Trump fires Democratic FTC commissioners | The Verge Fired FTC commissioners sue Trump | The Verge The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | The Verge The government doesn’t understand Meta | The Verge FTC v Meta live: updates from the battle for Instagram, WhatsApp | The Verge DOGE has arrived at the FTC | The Verge Inside Mark Zuckerberg’s failed negotiations with the FTC | Wall Street Journal FTC chair says he’d drop Meta case if lawfully ordered to | The Verge Bedoya warns of “corrupting influence of billionaires”| The Verge The FTC has enough staff to sue Amazon, after all | The Verge Transcript: ⁠https://www.theverge.com/e/657115⁠ Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger 1:12:18

7 days ago1:12:18

1:12:18

Today we’re talking about the very real possibility that Google might be broken up by the United States government. And to do that, I’m talking to Jonathan Kanter, the former assistant attorney general for antitrust under the Biden administration. Kanter left the DOJ after Trump was elected, but he was the architect of the major antitrust cases the Trump administration continues to pursue against Google. That means he’s much more free to share his thoughts on what it took to build and win both of these cases and what should happen next. Links: Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge Google is in more danger than ever of being broken up | Verge OpenAI tells judge it would buy Chrome from Google | Verge The high stakes of Google’s monopoly trial | Verge DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open search monopoly | Verge Google makes history with rapid-fire antitrust losses | NYT Read the antitrust ruling against Google | NYT Google ad monopoly ruling's surprise winner: OpenAI | Axios DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Verizon’s consumer chief: Net neutrality ‘went literally nowhere’ 1:12:39

10 days ago1:12:39

1:12:39

As CEO of Verizon's consumer division, Sowmyanarayan Sampath oversees the biggest part of the company, which does business with roughly a third of the entire country. He's a longtime Verge reader, so we talked very directly about whether the huge 5G investment had actually paid off, and whether – whether the “race” we were supposedly in with China was actually worth it, and what kinds of new apps and services actually come to light. And while Verizon fought tooth and nail against regulations like net neutrality, the current Trump administration isn’t nearly as hands-off when it comes to things like holding up deals because of DEI policies — something that’s happening to Verizon right now. So I had to ask Sampath if he was going to push back on that kind of government overreach as hard as Verizon has in the past. Links: The US government makes a $42 million bet on OpenRAN | The Verge FCC scrutinizes Verizon’s $9.6 billion Frontier deal over DEI | USA Today Verizon offers a three-year price lock — but there’s a catch | The Verge T-Mobile updates its DEI policy to get Lumos deal approved | Fierce Network We don’t need net neutrality; we need competition (2014) | Ars Technica Wireless and cable industries sue to kill net neutrality (2015) | The Verge Everything Verizon says in this terrible video against net neutrality (2017) | The Verge Report: Most Americans have no real choice in internet providers | ILSR T-Mobile’s merger promises couldn’t make a carrier out of Dish | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
How Trump’s tariffs actually work on the ground 1:07:24

14 days ago1:07:24

1:07:24

One of the ways I’ve been trying to sort out the chaos of tariffs and trade wars is by talking to the people behind the software that makes the global trade system go. So today I wanted to bring back one of my favorite Decoder guests: Flexport CEO Ryan Petersen, whose software manages the logistics of moving things around the world, from factory to doorstep. We didn’t get too much into the numbers — those tariff percentages keep changing — so instead Ryan and I really focused on how this system works, how it’s supposed to work, and how it’s working now, if it’s working at all. Links: Flexport Tariff Live Blog | Flexport US tariffs: how Trump’s tax is hitting Big Tech and beyond | Verge How much will Trump’s tariffs cost U.S. importers? | NYT How much are tariffs on Chinese goods? It’s tricky | NYT How Trump’s tariff chaos is already changing global trade | Decoder Can software simplify the supply chain? Ryan Petersen thinks so | Decoder Why Flexport CEO Ryan Petersen took his company back | Decoder The U.S.-China decoupling arrives | Axios Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Are prediction markets gambling? Robinhood's Vlad Tenev is betting not 1:19:01

17 days ago1:19:01

1:19:01

Today, I’m talking with Vlad Tenev, the co-founder and CEO of Robinhood, which started as a way to open up stock trading. But the company’s ambitions have grown over time – and they’re getting bigger. Just a day before Vlad and I talked, Robinhood announced it would soon be offering bank accounts and wealth management services, which would really allow Robinhood to be involved with your money at every possible level. So I was very interested to sit down with Vlad and really hash out where Robinhood is going, and why he’s so adamant that certain big ideas, like prediction markets based around everything from sports games to presidential elections, are going to play a pivotal role in the future of finance. Links: Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev on markets for everything | Hard Fork Robinhood is launching bank accounts | Verge Kalshi sues Nevada and New Jersey regulators | Esports Insider Kalshi CEO: ‘State law doesn’t really apply’ to us | TechCrunch Robinhood debuts a sports gambling hub | Verge The SEC has ended its investigation into Robinhood crypto | Verge Robinhood admits it’s just a gambling app | Verge Massachusetts regulator subpoenas Robinhood over sports betting | CNN Verge Transcript Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Why DOGE is killing the agency that stops banks from ripping you off 52:25

20 days ago52:25

52:25

Rohit Chopra was the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau head until the end of January, when President Donald Trump fired him and Elon Musk’s DOGE began trying to dismantle the agency. The CFPB has been pretty popular since it was founded in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis to protect consumers, so shutting it down has kicked off a bunch of controversies — not least of which was whether Trump and Musk even had the power to do it. This all led me to ask several times who made the decision to fire him, who is currently responsible for the various policies of our government, and whether any of those things add up to a clear plan. Some of the most powerful executives in the world answer questions like this on Decoder all the time. But Rohit just didn’t know — and that should probably be as worrying as anything. Links: Trump fires CFPB director Rohit Chopra | Associated Press Trump orders CFPB to stop work, closes building | Associated Press CFPB workers reinstated after court order but still can’t work | The Verge Trump admin to appeal order blocking CFPB shutdown | Bloomberg Law A shady tech bootcamp may be sneaking back online | The Verge CFPB won’t enforce long-awaited payday lending rule | Bloomberg Law CFPB seeks to vacate redlining settlement, refund lender | Banking Dive CFPB signals it will drop rule regulating BNPL like credit cards | PYMTS CFPB drops fraud lawsuit against banks, Zelle | CNBC Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
UiPath CEO Daniel Dines on AI agents replacing our jobs 1:10:38

24 days ago1:10:38

1:10:38

Today, I’m talking with Daniel Dines, the co-founder and once again the CEO of UiPath, a software company that specializes in something called robotic process automation. We’ve been featuring a lot of what I like to call full-circle Decoder guests on the show lately, and Daniel is a perfect example. He was first on the show in 2022, and UiPath has had a lot of changes since then, including a short stint with a different CEO. Daniel is now back at the helm, and the timing is important: the company needs to shift, fast, to a world of agentic AI, which is radically changing the RPA business. We got into all that and more in this episode. It’s a fun one. Links: UiPath’s Daniel Dines thinks automation can fight the great resignation | Decoder Daniel Dines: Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is Fucked | Harry Stebbings UiPath to re-appoint Daniel Dines as CEO | UiPath UiPath shares tank 30% after company announces CEO shakeup | CNBC UiPath to lay off 10% of workforce in companywide restructuring | CNBC UiPath looks for a path to growth with Peak agentic AI acquisition | TechCrunch How RPA vendors aim to remain relevant in a world of AI agents | TechCrunch UiPath finds firmer footing with pivot to general automation, AI | TechCrunch Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/643562 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
What AI anime memes tell us about the future of art and humanity 59:54

27 days ago59:54

59:54

Today, we’re diving head first into the AI art debate, which to be honest, is an absolute mess. If you’ve been on the internet this past week, you’ve seen the Studio Ghibli memes. These images are everywhere — and they’ve widened an already pretty stark rift between AI boosters and critics. Brian Merchant, author of the newsletter and book Blood in the Machine , wrote one of the best analyses of the Ghibli trend last week. So I invited him onto the show not only to discuss this particular situation, but also to help me dissect the ongoing AI art debate more broadly. Links: OpenAI's Studio Ghibli meme factory is an insult to art itself | Brian Merchant Seattle engineer’s Ghibli-style image goes viral | Seattle Times OpenAI just raised another $40 billion round from SoftBank | Verge ChatGPT “added one million users in the last hour.” | Verge ChatGPT’s Ghibli filter is political now, but it always was | Verge OpenAI, Google ask the government to let them train on content they don’t own | Verge Studio Ghibli in the age of A.I. reproduction | Max Read OpenAI has a Studio Ghibli problem | Vergecast AI slop is a brute force attack on the algorithms that control reality | 404 Media The New Aesthetics of Fascism | New Socialist Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
How Unity CEO Matt Bromberg stopped the ‘war’ against its customers 1:14:21

4 weeks ago1:14:21

1:14:21

Unity is one of those hidden in plain sight companies we love here on Decoder, and CEO Matt Bromberg is in many ways the perfect Decoder guest. He's been on the job less than a year and took over in a moment of crisis. He describes the company as being "at war with its customers" before he joined, and he's not wrong. The game industry right now is also contracting overall — studios are closing, and some big bets on things like the metaverse and live service games haven’t paid off. So we talked about all that, and where Matt sees growth ahead: Unity isn’t just a game engine provider, but the platform for everything from running those big live services and the monetization on top of them. Links: Unity’s struggles continue with fresh wave of layoffs | The Verge Unity attempts to turn things around with latest game engine release | The Verge Unity has eliminated its controversial runtime fee | The Verge ‘We want to be a fundamentally different and better company’ | IGN John Riccitiello is out at Unity, effective immediately | The Verge Unity is laying off 25% of its staff | The Verge Unity cancels town hall over reported death threats | The Verge Unity has changed its pricing model and developers are pissed off | The Verge Toyota chooses Unity for next-generation interface | Unity Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Capitalism vs. the bird flu 49:44

5 weeks ago49:44

49:44

Today we’re talking about bird flu, but in a pretty Decoder way. Science journalist Lauren Leffer, who recently wrote a piece for The Verge about bird flu and how it’s becoming a forever war, is joining me on the show. We’re going to talk about the systems, structure, and culture that might control bird flu — and those that might make it worse. Links: We’ve entered a forever war with bird flu | Verge Kennedy’s alarming prescription for bird flu on poultry farms | NYT First bird flu death in US reported in Louisiana | NYT Bird flu found in sheep in UK, a world first | NYT Shell shocked: how small eateries are dealing with record egg prices | NYT Animal Farm: eggflation’s monopoly problem | The Lever At the ‘Wall Street of Eggs,’ Demand Is Surging | WSJ How to protect your pets from bird flu | Popular Science What to know about the bird flu outbreak in wild birds | AP Bird flu continues to spread as Trump experts are MIA | Ars Technica Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Splice CEO Kakul Srivastava on why push-button AI is “insulting” to musicians 1:10:37

5 weeks ago1:10:37

1:10:37

Today, I’m talking with Kakul Srivastava, CEO of music creation platform Splice, which is one of the biggest marketplaces around for loops and samples. You can just go sign up, pay the money, and download these loops to try to make pop hits all day long. Take, for instance, Sabrina Carpenter’s Espresso, which was composed almost entirely out of Splice loops. Now, if you’re a Decoder listener, you know that some of my favorite conversations are with people building technology products for creatives, and that I am obsessed with how technology changes the music industry, because it feels like whatever happens to music happens to everything else five years later. So this one was really interesting, because Splice is all wrapped in all of that. Links: Sabrina Carpenter’s Espresso highlights the way new music is made | Bloomberg Major record labels sue AI company behind ‘BBL Drizzy’ | Verge Splice CEO’s message for AI sceptics? “Trust the artists” | MusicTech Splice launches voice recording on Splice Mobile at SXSW | Splice OpenAI & Google ask government to let them train AI on content they don’t own | Verge AI Drake just set an impossible legal trap for Google | Verge Pharrell Williams: $7.3 million Blurred Lines verdict threatens all artists | Verge Lady Gaga, nostalgia, and the ‘reheated nachos’ phenomenon in pop culture | Her World AI music startups say copyright violation is just rock and roll | Verge Suno CEO says musicians don’t actually like making music | Vice Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/632036 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
The movement to take down Tesla 51:05

6 weeks ago51:05

51:05

Today we're talking about the Tesla Takedown protest movement, which has emerged as a way for people to express how deeply unhappy they are with Elon Musk installing himself as a not-so-shadow president who is tearing the federal government apart, leaving confusion and destruction in his wake. Tesla's stock price is sinking, new car registrations and down, and hype around the company is fading rapidly. There's an opportunity there for the protestors, and I asked Ed Niedermeyer on the show to help me pull it all apart. Links: Is Tesla cooked? | Verge Elon Musk Has Become Too Toxic for YouTube | New York Magazine ‘Tesla Takedown’ wants to hit Elon Musk where it hurts | Verge The Tesla protests are getting bigger — and rowdier | Verge ‘Tesla Takedown’ protesters planning ‘biggest day of action’ | Verge Tesla registrations — and public opinion — are in a free fall | Verge Multiple Teslas set on fire in Las Vegas and Kansas City | Verge Mark Rober’s Tesla video was more than a little weird | Verge Tesla sales fell year-over-year for the first time | Verge The cybertruck isn’t all it’s cracked up to be | Verge Tesla autopilot, FSD linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths | Verge Tesla crash victims’ families worried about Musk influence on investigations | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
How Trump's tariff chaos is already changing global trade 1:11:26

6 weeks ago1:11:26

1:11:26

I'm talking to Evan Smith, who started Altana in 2019 because he predicted the first wave of globalized manufacturing and trade would end, and that companies would want new powerful tools to adapt their supply chains as the world grew more complex. Here in 2025, that looks like a pretty good bet — even if the way it's playing out is more stressful and chaotic than anyone really wants it to be. There are some big, unsettling ideas here, but talking about them directly and with clarity at least made me feel like I had a framework to understand the endless on-again, off-again news cycle on tariffs and trade. Links: Globalization 2.0 Manifesto | Altana The ‘giant sucking sound’ of NAFTA | The Conversation ‘Offensive Realism’: The never-ending struggle for power | American Diplomacy (2002) Foreign Affairs Big Mac I | NYT (1996) The end of the Golden Arches Doctrine | Financial Times Trump could scale back tariffs, Lutnick says | CNBC China joined rule-based trading system — then broke the rules | Politico Open Source and China: Inverting Copyright? | Wisconsin International Law Journal How the US lost out on iPhone work | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Why the Take It Down Act is a not a law, but a weapon 52:14

7 weeks ago52:14

52:14

Today, I’m talking to Verge policy editor Adi Robertson about a bill called the Take It Down Act, which is one in a long line of bills that would make it illegal to distribute non-consensual intimate imagery, or NCII. This is a real and devastating problem on the internet, and AI is just making it worse. But Adi just wrote a long piece arguing that giving the Trump administration new powers over speech in this way would be a mistake. So in this episode, Adi and I really get into the details of the Take it Down Act, how it might be weaponized, and why we ultimately can’t trust anything the Trump administration says about wanting to solve this problem. Links: The Take It Down Act isn’t a law, it’s a weapon | Verge A bill combatting the spread of AI deepfakes just passed the Senate | Verge Welcome to the era of gangster tech regulation | Verge FTC workers are getting terminated | Verge Bluesky deletes AI protest video of Trump sucking Musk's toes | 404 Media Trump supports Take It Down Act so he can silence critics | EFF Scarlett Johansson calls for deepfake ban after AI video goes viral | Verge The FCC is a weapon in Trump’s war on free speech | Decoder Trolls have flooded X with graphic Taylor Swift AI fakes | Verge Teen girls confront an epidemic of deepfake nudes in schools | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour on AI, press freedom, and the future of news 1:08:31

7 weeks ago1:08:31

1:08:31

Almar Latour is the publisher of the Wall Street Journal and also CEO of its parent company, Dow Jones — itself a part of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Almar's been with the paper since the 90s, and now he's got insight into all the modern messes. He's made a big deal with OpenAI, while also suing Perplexity — all while building his own AI data products for Dow Jones customers. He's also a strong defender of press freedom who fought to have Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich released from Russia after being imprisoned for more than a year — while News Corp. chairman Rupert Murdoch famously has deep ties to Trump and has overseen a vastly polarized and politicized era of news media. Links: Here are the WSJ journalists whose jobs were eliminated | Talking Biz News OpenAI, WSJ parent strike content deal valued at over $250M | Wall Street Journal News Corp sues Perplexity for ripping off WSJ, New York Post | The Verge Dow Jones negotiates AI usage rights with 4,000 publishers | Nieman Lab Rupert Murdoch joins Trump in Oval Office | The Hollywood Reporter WSJ reporter Evan Gershkovich is free | Wall Street Journal Trump sues Iowa newspaper and top pollster | Reuters The FCC is a weapon in Trump’s war on free speech | The Verge CBS considers caving on Trump lawsuit to save Skydance merger | The Verge Why The Atlantic signed a deal with OpenAI | Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/626229 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Flying is still safe, for now — but the FAA isn’t 40:43

8 weeks ago40:43

40:43

So today I’m talking to Andy Hawkins, The Verge’ s transportation editor, about what’s going on in the skies. Andy just edited a big piece for us by writer Darryl Campbell that helps put a lot of what’s happening in air travel right now in perspective. It has some very reassuring data points, but it also raises important questions about what we need to do next to reinstill confidence in air travel. Andy and I talked about how safe it really is to fly right now — extremely safe, it turns out — and how the current air traffic systems might change for better and worse. And, of course, we talked about Elon Musk. Links: What’s the deal with all these airplane crashes? | Verge How Elon Musk muscled his way into the FAA | Bloomberg Elon Musk says upgrade of FAA’s air traffic control system is failing | CNN FAA targeting Verizon contract in favor of Musk’s Starlink, sources say | WashPo FAA officials ordered staff to find funding for Elon Musk’s Starlink | Rolling Stone FAA announces ‘hiring supercharge’ for air traffic controllers | Forbes Air traffic control trainees to get raise, in nod to cost of living | NYT Some of the 400 jobs that were cut at the FAA helped support air safety | AP DC plane crash marks first major commercial crash in US since 2009 | ABC What the ATC controller sees | Flight Training Central Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Amazon’s Panos Panay on the long road to Alexa’s AI overhaul 1:13:41

8 weeks ago1:13:41

1:13:41

Panos Panay is in charge of devices and services at Amazon — that's everything from Alexa and Kindle to Ring, Eero, and even the Project Kuiper satellite internet service that's meant to compete with Starlink. He's led the team through giving Alexa a big AI infusion which is what drew him to Amazon after nearly 20 years with Microsoft. Like so many folks in tech, he sees AI as a platform shift that will change the way we use computers. Fair warning: We talk about Alexa a lot in this one, so you might want to go mute your Alexa device mics now. Links: With Alexa Plus, Amazon finally reinvents its best product | Verge The future of the Kindle with Panos Panay | Vergecast Amazon announces AI-powered Alexa Plus | Verge All of the announcements from Amazon’s Alexa Plus event | Verge Alexa Plus arrives with promise but plenty of questions | Verge Amazon Leadership Principles | Amazon How Amazon runs Alexa, with Dave Limp (2021) | Decoder Alexa loses her voice | YouTube Humane is shutting down the AI pin | Verge Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype | Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/621232 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Elon Musk's polarizing ascent in the MAGA movement 39:55

9 weeks ago39:55

39:55

This is Alex Heath, deputy editor of The Verge . I’m guest hosting today’s episode while Nilay is still away for a much-needed vacation. He’ll be back next week. But today, we’re diving into the bromance between Elon Musk and Donald Trump, and more specifically, how it’s impacting the changing right-wing political movement here in the United States. There’s no better place to get that temperature check than CPAC. Musk showed up there this year for a wild interview — you may have seen clips of him waving around a literal chainsaw. Thankfully, Verge policy Gaby del Valle was on the ground this year, and as you’ll hear her say, she barely slept. But she got a front-row look at how the world of MAGA really feels about Elon, DOGE, and regulating Big Tech. Links: I cannot describe how strange Elon Musk’s CPAC appearance was | Verge At CPAC, the world’s populists parrot the leader who inspired them | Politico Government still threatening to ‘semi-fire’ workers who don’t answer Musk email | Verge Saying ‘no’ to Musk | NYT What that chainsaw was really about | NYT Sequins, merch, chainsaws: Trump’s return to CPAC | NYT Bannon calls Musk a ‘parasitic illegal immigrant’ | NYT New York got $80 Million for migrants. The White House took it back | NYT Federal technology staffers resign rather than help Musk and DOGE | AP National Park Service layoffs, hiring delays impact visitors | NPR Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Vimeo CEO Philip Moyer is betting on the human touch — and AI 1:17:16

9 weeks ago1:17:16

1:17:16

Vimeo started many years ago as something of an artsier, more creative competitor to YouTube. Its last CEO, Anjali Sud, took the company through a pretty huge transformation into an enterprise software company, and we had her on the show to talk about that transformation a couple years ago. Now, her successor, new CEO Philip Moyer, not only has to decide what parts of that strategy are working, but also how to navigate the addition of AI to the mix, and deal with the basic math of the creator economy: The amount of video in the world is exploding, but the total amount of time a person can spend watching any of it is pretty fixed. So with AI adding to the volume, how is anyone going to be able to make any money at all? Links: How Anjali Sud reinvented Vimeo | Decoder (2021) How Dropout is taking control with Vimeo OTT | Vimeo Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena on making a website in 2023 | Decoder Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami on why the web isn’t dying | Decoder NBCU’s streaming chief isn’t worried about you canceling cable | Decoder Vimeo names new CMO as it focuses on business video | WSJ The truth about Vimeo and YouTube SEO | Vimeo Google’s counteroffer to a breakup is unbundling Android apps | Verge China opens Google antitrust probe in retaliation to tariffs | Verge Vimeo’s position on AI | Vimeo Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/616820 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Why gaming never had its Netflix moment 58:55

10 weeks ago58:55

58:55

This is David Pierce, editor-at-large at The Verge . Nilay is off this week for a much-deserved break. So I’m filling in for him, and the Decoder team thought this would be a good opportunity to switch gears a little bit from the political apocalypse beat and talk about something completely different. So today we’re diving into the video game industry and discussing a particular set of very thorny problems facing Microsoft and its Xbox division. I invited Ash Parrish, The Verge’ s video game reporter, to discuss the issues facing Xbox, Microsoft’s big ambitions with its Game Pass subscription service, and why the game industry hasn’t had its Netflix or Spotify moment yet. Links: Xbox continues its push beyond consoles with new ad campaign | Verge The next Xbox is going to be very different | Verge 2025 looks like a great year for Xbox | Verge Microsoft prepares to take Xbox everywhere | Verge Microsoft and Google are fighting over the future of Xbox | Verge Microsoft was the No.1 games publisher in the world last month | VGC Xbox games in Game Pass ‘can lose 80% of premium sales’ | VGC Phil Spencer: No ‘red lines’ over Xbox games coming to Switch, PlayStation | Eurogamer Microsoft’s Xbox turmoil isn’t slowing down | Verge Microsoft says Game Pass is profitable as subscription growth slows | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
The FCC is a now a weapon in Trump’s war on free speech 51:01

11 weeks ago51:01

51:01

The First Amendment, protecting free speech and free media, is a pillar of US law. It is, famously, the first one. We don’t usually tolerate government interference with speech. So it’s been disconcerting these first few weeks of the second Trump administration to realize suddenly, there’s a nonzero chance the government will punish our work. FCC Chairman Brendan Carr is absolutely determined to turn all that talk about the media being the enemy of the people into concrete legal action — incredibly serious, unprecedented attacks on free speech. Links: Carr’s emerging agenda and its dangerous effects | Tech Policy Press Trump’s MAGA enforcer is having ‘the time of his life’ | The Daily Beast FCC to investigate Comcast for having DEI programs | The Verge Trump amends CBS ’60 Minutes’ lawsuit & demands $20 billion | LA Times No Apology Over Trump Lawsuit, ‘60 Minutes’ Top Producer Says | New York Times The FCC is investigating NPR and PBS | The Verge ABC News to pay $15 million to settle Trump defamation suit | Wall Street Journal Top Trump donor wants SCOTUS to reverse press protection | The New Republic Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Sen. Ron Wyden is here to stop Elon Musk 1:02:36

11 weeks ago1:02:36

1:02:36

Today, I’m talking with Senator Ron Wyden, a democrat and the senior senator from Oregon. He’s been in the Senate for almost 30 years, which makes him one of longest serving members of the institution. We scheduled this interview with Senator Wyden a while ago — he’s got a new book out called “It Takes Chutzpah: How to Fight Fearlessly for Progressive Change.” But recent events made it vastly more important to talk about the state of our federal government – and specifically, what Elon Musk and DOGE are doing as they seize power in various federal agencies. So right up front and very bluntly, I wanted to ask Wyden: What is even going on? And can even he and his fellow senators keep up with it? Links: It Takes Chutzpah | Hachette Book Group DOGE wreaked havoc on the government in just one week | Verge “For all practical purposes, I’d call that a coup.” | Verge Elon Musk’s presidency is just getting started | Decoder Elon Musk’s computer coup | Vergecast Can anyone stop President Musk? | Verge Demand for GAO to investigate what Elon is doing at Treasury [ PDF ] Senator Has Dire Warning About Letting Elon Musk Run Wild | New Republic “Trump and Bessent are asking you not to believe what’s playing out right in front of your eyes.” | Wyden ( Bluesky ) “My message to Musk is simple: get your hands off our money and get the hell out.” Wyden ( Bluesky ) Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Elon Musk's presidency is just getting started 45:02

12 weeks ago45:02

45:02

Today, we’re discussing a very big problem with extremely far-reaching consequences: Do we still have a functional federal government here in the United States? And how much of it has been handed entirely to Elon Musk? If you’ve been following the news, you know there’s a lot here that’s unfolding very fast, but I wanted to know how all these changes are affecting the people who’ve so far been the most newly supportive of Trump because they have the most to lose – the money, the billionaires. So I invited New York Times reporter Teddy Schleiffer, who’s been covering this closely every day since the inauguration, on the show to help break it down. Links: Inside Musk's aggressive incursion into the federal government | NYT ‘The biggest heist in American history’: DC is just waking up to Musk’s takeover | Verge ‘Scared and betrayed’ — workers are reeling from chaos at federal agencies | Verge Treasury Department sued over DOGE takeover | Verge Can anyone stop President Musk? | Verge Elon Musk’s team one has access to Treasury’s payments system | NYT Elon Musk’s bureaucratic coup | Atlantic Trump: Elon Musk won't do anything 'without our approval' | NBC News The young, inexperienced engineers aiding Musk’s government takeover | Wired USDS head Mina Hsiang wants big tech to help fix government (2023) | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Bookshop CEO Andy Hunter's crusade to save books from Amazon 1:10:24

12 weeks ago1:10:24

1:10:24

Andy Hunter is the CEO of Bookshop.org, a website he launched in 2020 that lets local bookshops sell all over the country. He always meant it to compete directly with Amazon, and the timing of that launch right into the teeth of the pandemic meant it was able to start strong and grow quickly. Now Bookshop is selling ebooks, which is another market hugely dominated by Amazon. For Andy and Bookshop to get what they want, they’re probably going to have to gear up for a big fight. It’s kind of the app store question all over again, just like the big cases Epic had against Apple and Google, and it's all prime Decoder territory. Links: Bookshop is launching an ebook store to take on Amazon | The Verge As greenwashing soars, some question B Corp certification | BBC ‘The Goliath is Amazon’: After 100 years, B&N wants to go back to its roots | Decoder How Bookshop survives and thrives in Amazon’s world | Wired Apple to pay $450M after Supreme Court denies price-fixing appeal [2016] | The Verge Epic Games vs Apple | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/604809 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
DeepSeek, Stargate, and the new AI arms race 33:24

13 weeks ago33:24

33:24

Today, we’re talking about DeepSeek, and how the open source AI model built by a Chinese startup has completely upended the conventional wisdom around chatbots, what they can do, and how much they should cost to develop. We’re also talking about Stargate, OpenAI’s new $500 billion data center venture that’s supposed to supercharge domestic AI infrastructure. Both stand in stark contrast with one another — and represent a new, escalating front in the US-China relationship and the geopolitics of AI. Verge senior AI reporter Kylie Robison joins me to break it all down. Links: Why everyone is freaking out about DeepSeek | Verge DeepSeek FAQ | Stratechery DeepSeek: all the news about the startup that’s shaking up AI stocks | Verge OpenAI and Softbank are starting a $500 billion AI data center company | Verge The AI spending frenzy is just getting started | Command Line After DeepSeek, VCs face questions about AI investments | NYT Satya Nadella on Stargate: ‘All I know is I’m good for my $80 billion’ | Verge OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor | FT DeepSeek sparks global AI selloff, Nvidia loses about $593 billion of value | Reuters Four big reasons to worry about DeepSeek (and four reasons to calm down) | Platformer Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
How Ciena keeps the internet online, with CEO Gary Smith 1:17:25

13 weeks ago1:17:25

1:17:25

Today, I’m talking with Gary Smith, CEO of the networking company Ciena. You probably aren’t familiar with Ciena — the company isn’t really a household name. But every internet user has relied on the company’s products; Ciena makes the hardware and software that makes the fiber optic cables connecting the world light up with data. That’s everything from local fiber networks for broadband ISPs to the massive undersea cables that connect continents. There’s a high probability that this very podcast came to you over a Ciena network, in fact — the company is everywhere. That means almost every single Decoder idea is right here, sitting on the backbone of the internet. Links: What is WDM or DWDM? | Ciena Southern Cross achieves first 1 Tb/s Transmission across Pacific with Ciena | Ciena The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat | Verge The internet really is a series of tubes | Vergecast Meta is building the ‘mother of all’ subsea cables | Verge Ciena CEO: Prepare for the AI wave | Fierce Network The secret life of the 500-plus cables that run the internet CNET Fiber-Optic Technology Draws Record Stock Value | NYT Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24115288 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
How Meta's MAGA heel turn is a play for global power 54:08

14 weeks ago54:08

54:08

It’s been a messy couple of weeks for big tech companies as the second Trump administration kicks off an unprecedented era of how we think about who controls the internet. Right now, there's a major collision, or maybe merger, happening between billionaire power and state power, and everyone who uses tech to communicate — so, basically everyone — is stuck in the middle. I sat down with law professor and online speech expert Kate Klonick to break it all down. Links: Welcome to the era of gangster tech regulation | Verge Trump signs order refusing to enforce TikTok ban for 75 days | Verge Inside Zuckerberg’s sprint to remake Meta for Trump era | New York Times The internet’s future is looking bleaker by the day | Wired Meta is highlighting a splintering global approach to online speech | Verge Mark Zuckerberg lies about content moderation to Joe Rogan’s face | Verge Meta’s ‘tipping point’ is about aligning with power | WashPo Meta is preparing for an autocratic future | Tech Policy Press Meta surrenders to the right on speech | Platformer We’re all trying to find the guy who did this | Atlantic Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Why CEO Matt Garman is willing to bet AWS on AI 1:09:30

15 weeks ago1:09:30

1:09:30

Today, I’m talking with Matt Garman, the CEO of Amazon Web Services. Matt took over as CEO last June — you might recall that we had his predecessor Adam Selipsky on the show just over a year ago. That makes this episode terrific Decoder bait, since I love hearing how new CEOs will decide what to change and what to keep going after they’ve settled into their role. Links: There’s no AI without the cloud, says AWS CEO Adam Selipsky | Decoder Amazon's AWS to invest $11 bln in Georgia to boost AI infrastructure | Reuters Netflix’s Ted Sarandos responds to Jake Paul-Mike Tyson glitches | THR The furious contest to unseat Nvidia as king of AI chips | NYT Amazon’s moonshot plan to rival Nvidia in AI chips | Bloomberg Amazon invests another $4 billion in Anthropic | The Verge Why Netflix never goes down | The Verge Sam Altman lowers the bar for AGI | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24102212 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Studying online bad behavior was hard. It's going to get harder in Trump 2.0 1:01:13

16 weeks ago1:01:13

1:01:13

Hello, Nilay here. We’re still on winter break; we’ll be back with brand-new Decoder interviews next week, and with our Thursday shows later this month. I’m excited for what we’ve got in the pipeline. I think you’re going to love it. For today, though, we’re sharing an episode of Peter Kafka’s new show Channels – he’s talking to disinformation researcher Renee DiResta about what’s going on with speech online in an era where platforms seem less inclined to moderate than ever. Peter’s an old friend and Renee is an expert on all this — there’s a lot of core Decoder themes in this one. Enjoy, and we’ll be back in a bit. Links: Channels with Peter Kafka | Apple Podcasts The Stanford Internet Observatory is being dismantled | Platformer A major disinformation research center’s future looks uncertain | The Verge Supreme Court to hear case on how government talks to social platforms | The Verge GOP targets researchers who study disinformation ahead of 2024 Election | NYT She warned of ‘peer-to-peer misinformation.’ Congress listened | NYT Disinformation watchdogs are under pressure. This group refuses to stop | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1
Answering your biggest Decoder questions 53:17

19 weeks ago53:17