Episode 258 - Gap Science Interview

Double Loop Podcast

#Science #Latent #Print #Comparison #Eric Ray #Glenn Langenburg #True Crime #Storytelling #Education Tech #Podcasting Education #Natural Sciences #Government #Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray #Forensic #Fingerprints

35:51

Diego Pavia and Paul Finebaum are this week’s Netflix Sports Club guests. Paul Finebaum, the voice of the SEC, drops a bold national championship prediction that might give the Big Tenners pause, and he reveals which SEC quarterback has him starstruck. Vanderbilt quarterback, Diego Pavia, gives a standout performance on and off the field in SEC Football: Any Given Saturday. He relives that improbable ‘Bama victory, including pre-game routine and why he thinks this victory changed the conversation about Vandy football - sorry Nick Saban. Paul Fineman and Diego Pavia gaze into the crystal ball of the 2025 season, and what do they see? Heisman Trophies, making Auburn pay, and LSU’s chances for glory. In this interview, Vandy QB, Diego Pavia: 🟥 Details the 2024 Vandy vs. ‘Bama Buildup 🟥 Discusses playing for Coach Lea and with his bestie 🟥 Reveals his true height In this interview, SEC Expert, Paul Finebaum answers: 🟥 Why the SEC’s staying power is unrivaled? 🟥 Who’s almost a bigger star than Taylor Swift? 🟥 Which team will win the 2025 National Championship? 00:00 Intro 01:24 Vandy QB Diego Pavia Is a Star 01:37 Beating Bama 03:19 Choosing Vandy And Coach Lea 04:58 Give Me The Ball 06:20 Dude Put In The Work 07:38 Nick Saban Said What?? 08:20 Underdogs 10:22 Watch Out Auburn 12:33 Recruits: Come To Vandy! 13:29 Kay and Dani Talk SEC 15:54 Paul Finebaum’s SEC Picks 16:40 All About Arch Manning 17:23 SEC: The Only Game In Town 18:25 South Carolina Should Be In The Playoffs 19:40 Shane Beamer Bounce Back? 20:14 Arch Manning Is No Taylor Swift 21:42 The Weight of Being a Manning 22:31 Finebaum: “Best Player Since Tim Tebow” 23:20 LSU QB1 + Championship Or Bust 25:39 Post Saban Alabama 27:42 Is Vanderbilt Legit? 28:44 Can Mississippi State Survive? 29:49 The Vols “Will Struggle This Year” 31:44 SEC: Natty. Little Tenners: Nothing 33:09 Outro 34:28 Up Next - America’s Team: The Gambler And His Cowboys 🏈 Diego Pavia Instagram - https://bit.ly/45uLND4 TikTok - http://bit.ly/4fsLY5p X - https://bit.ly/4ldwx2j 🏈 Vanderbilt Instagram - http://bit.ly/4lfo8eu X - http://bit.ly/4mCiaWt YouTube - @vucommodores 🏈 Paul Finebaum Instagram - https://bit.ly/45kVtPv X - https://bit.ly/46JQFWc 🎙️ Kay Adams Instagram - http://bit.ly/3GYp4Go TikTok - http://bit.ly/4m7KmR9 X - http://bit.ly/45nI2Ou 🎙️ Dani Klupenger Instagram - https://bit.ly/3HeGGxx TikTok - https://bit.ly/4lQSBkl X - https://bit.ly/4lWpufr 🟥 Netflix Sports Instagram - http://bit.ly/45CPAhL TikTok - http://bit.ly/4mti6Ia X - http://bit.ly/4mseqGH Facebook - http://bit.ly/45o5xqK YouTube - @NetflixSports We want to hear from you! Leave us a voice message at www.speakpipe.com/NetflixSportsClub Be sure to watch, listen, and subscribe to the Netflix Sports Club Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Tudum, and wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Kay Adams, the Netflix Sports Club Podcast is an all-access deep dive into the Netflix Sports Universe. Join Kay as she speaks with athletes, coaches, and top sports correspondents to break down the latest Netflix Sports series. Expect bold opinions, insightful analysis, and candid conversations you won’t find anywhere else.…

2 years ago 32:12

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Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg are at the 2023 IAI conference in National Harbor, MD with Erin West and Ashley Church of Gap Science. They've developed a series of classes and an entire virtual conference dedicated to training for forensic supervisors and management. How many people should be reporting to one supervisor? What resources are available to forensic professionals? What if you're supervising a discipline that you're not trained in? Listen to the discussion and then join the FREE conference during Forensic Science Week.

153 episodes

Double Loop Podcast

Episode 258 - Gap Science Interview

Double Loop Podcast

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published 2 years ago

MP3•Episode home

153 episodes

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Double Loop Podcast

1
Episode 285 - Michael Whyte Interview - Latent to Latent Comparisons 1:08:18

2 days ago1:08:18

1:08:18

In this episode, the guys start with a product-based Mandela effect question. Then they welcome back long-time friend of the show and webmaster, Michael Whyte from the New South Wales police force in Australia. Michael has a question for Glenn and Eric, regarding latent-to-latent comparisons, using latent prints as 'proxy exemplars' when the exemplars are worse than the latent prints or incomplete, and various off-shoots of these questions. The guys discuss the theoretical basis and some of the legal issues that arise in both the U.S. and Australia.…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 284 - Black Box '22 - Part 2 (with Brendan Max) 1:28:36

17 days ago1:28:36

1:28:36

In this episode, Eric stumps Glenn with a geography based Mandela Effect question. Then the guys welcome their guest commentator, Brendan Max, Public Defender and Chief of the Forensic Science Division in Chicago, Illinois. Eric, Glenn, and Brendan take a second look at the 2025 FBI/Noblis follow-up black box study for latent fingerprints. The guys had previously done a cursory review of the paper in Episode 282, and now wanted to dig in a bit into the appendices and take another look at some trends. Brendan offers his insights and shows that he’s pretty proficient with a spreadsheet too! The guys go back and forth discussing the strengths and limitations of the study and where the methodology and practice has likely improved since the original Black Box study (conducted in 2009). Article is available for free at: doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2025.112457…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 283 - DNA & Patterns 1:09:34

11 weeks ago1:09:34

1:09:34

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray review two articles from Cell that focus on the genetic basis for ridge development and pattern formation. 'The developmental basis of fingerprint pattern formation and variation' by Glover, et al., and 'Limb development genes underlie variation in human fingerprint patterns' by Li, et al. Our understanding of these complex processes continues to grow, and these papers further support our field and our conclusions.…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 282 - Noblis-FBI Black Box 2 Fingerprint Study 1:22:36

14 weeks ago1:22:36

1:22:36

In this episode, Glenn and Eric start with a quick game of “A Truth, A Lie, and a Mandella Effect”. Then they pose a question from a listener regarding interest in a forum where listeners can go and discuss the episodes of the show, ask questions, and chat “amongst themselves”. Finally they get to the long awaited Noblis/FBI study “Black Box 2” latent fingerprint error rate study. This is a re-do of the 2011 black box study for latent fingerprint performance. This study “Accuracy and reproducibility of latent print decisions on comparisons from searches of an automated fingerprint identification system” by Hicklin, Richetelli, Taylor and Buscaglia (For Sci Intl, 370 (2025), 112457), reported the performance of 156 U.S. latent print examiner participants each reviewing about 100 latent prints/comparisons resulting in over 14,000 trials. The study reports numerous statistics of performance such as sensitivity (63%), specificity (70%), false positive error rate (0.2%), and false negative error rate (4.2%). The guys also discuss some important study design differences, plus there are a lot of data in the appendices. Finally they talk about the number of false positives made in the study (n=23) and the fact that 13 of those 23 were made by one participant and how that impacted the results. Article is available for free at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2025.112457…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 281 Kasey Wertheim Tribute 1:01:15

19 weeks ago1:01:15

1:01:15

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg pay tribute to our colleague and friend. Kasey Wertheim passed away on March 7, 2025 and will be greatly missed. Please join us as we remember his legacy and contributions to the field of fingerprints and tell a few personal stories.

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 280 - Pat Wertheim Tribute 1:17:20

21 weeks ago1:17:20

1:17:20

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg pay tribute to our mentor and friend. Pat Wertheim recently passed and will be greatly missed. Please join us as we remember his legacy and tell a few stories.

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 279 - Simultaneous Impressions 1:19:11

22 weeks ago1:19:11

1:19:11

In this episode Glenn and Eric catch up after some hectic travel from recent weather issues. They do some news updates and also Eric had advice for new Patreon subscribers. Then they play an Oscar-themed round of “A Truth, a Lie, and a Mandela Effect” because it is the weekend of the 2025 Oscars. Then the guys tackle a topic which has come up many times in the past, but they’ve never actually dived into before: Simultaneous Impressions. They talk about different scenarios that can occur such as: some impressions stand alone, none stand alone, aggregation of features, and physical gaps or voids in an impression. They review the famous Mass v. Patterson case from 2005 that started the initial controversy in the field. They also have a chance to discuss John Black’s JFI research article from 2006 and other source material on the subject. Reference: Black, J.P. Pilot Study: The Application of ACE-V to Simultaneous (Cluster) Impressions. Journal of Forensic Identification, 56(6) Dated: November/December 2006 Pages: 933-971.…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 278 - Aussie Paper on Examiner Disagreements 1:02:51

23 weeks ago1:02:51

1:02:51

In this first recorded episode of 2025, Eric and Glenn start with Eric being pedantic in his “A Truth, A Lie, and a Mandela Effect”. The guys catch up on New Year stuff and then launch into a review of a research paper from New South Wales, Australia, titled “How often do fingerprint examiners disagree in routine casework?” by O’Connor and Chapman (2024) from Forensic Science International. Eric first discusses some of the important differences in casework workflow and conclusions between Aussie examiners and U.S. examiners. Then they discuss the results of the paper and the significance of the findings. At the end, they discuss solutions and ideas for resolving conflict and ultimately find that conflicting results and examiner disagreements are a normal, expected, natural part of the examination process. Find the paper at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2024.112139…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 277 - Sarah Chu Interview 1:10:21

30 weeks ago1:10:21

1:10:21

Glenn and Eric interview Sarah Chu, director of policy and reform with the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice's (PCLJ) forensic science policy initiatives. Sarah breaks down her doctoral thesis on quality management and oversight in forensic science laboratories.

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 276 - History Episode - Stories of the Forefathers 1:34:25

35 weeks ago1:34:25

1:34:25

In this episode the guys discuss historical figures in the field of fingerprints. At the top of the episode Eric gives Glenn an Australian themed “A Truth, a Lie, and a Mandela Effect”. Glenn tells a couple of stories from his trip to London, which also inspired the topic for the episode. Because of Glenn’s time in Switzerland this fall reading old texts, he learned a lot about the early days of fingerprints. The guys discuss contributions, stories and cases from Juan Vucetich, Sir Francis Galton, Sir Henry Faulds, Sir Edward Henry, Alphonse Bertillon, Dr. Edmond Locard, and more!…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 275 - 2024 IAI Conference: The Reno Recap 1:21:03

41 weeks ago1:21:03

1:21:03

The guys start out with a quick explanation of why Glenn’s sound is so bad (he’s in Switzerland recording). They also start the new “season”, post-IAI with a new game: "Truth, Lie, or Mandela Effect?" Eric talks about his fall conference junket and then the guys finally catch up on the IAI. They discuss their favorite lectures, workshops, and activities at the 2024 IAI Conference in Reno, NV. They summarize some of their standout lectures that they attended. Glenn then discusses how the Double Loop Podcast vendor booth went with Rebecca Coutant running it during the conference. Rebecca also was “Our Girl Friday”, doing her impromptu interviews with conference attendees.…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 274 - NIST Inconclusive Paper 56:15

50 weeks ago56:15

56:15

Eric and Glenn are back from a little summer break, prepping for the 2024 IAI Conference in Reno. They do a final “Where in the Whorld?” game. Then they jump into a recent paper on “Inconclusive” decisions (Swofford, et al. (2024) “Inconclusive Decisions and Error Rates in Forensic Science”, Forensic Science International: Synergy (vol 8; 100472)) authored by several members of NIST. The paper proposes a method for computing and communicating error rates when “inconclusive” decisions are made. The paper also focuses on making clear distinctions between “method performance” versus “method conformance”. The guys discuss their views on the method and the implications the paper may have for fingerprint examiners and their agencies. Swofford, H. , Lund, S. , Iyer, H. , Butler, J. , Soons, J. , Thompson, R. , Desiderio, V. , Jones, J. and Ramotowski, R. (2024), Inconclusive Decisions and Error Rates in Forensic Science, Forensic Science International: Synergy, [online], https://doi.org/10.1016/j.fsisyn.2024.100472, https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=957335 (Accessed August 31, 2024) Link to open source paper here: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.fsisyn.2024.100472…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 273 - Angela Hilliard Interview - Erroneous Exclusions 1:05:22

1 year ago1:05:22

1:05:22

Glenn and Eric are joined by Angela Hilliard to discuss her experiences with a cold case from the Pacific Northwest. Genetic genealogy provided a suspect's name from a cold case double homicide, and a latent palm print was left on the victim's van. Angela walks us through her initial erroneous exclusion, the subsequent identification, court testimony, and the resulting press coverage. A must-listen episode for examiners on how to handle erroneous conclusions, even in high-profile cases. (Apologies for the audio in this episode. We did not realize until later that some of audio was poorer quality than normal.)…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 272 - DNA and Human Factors Expert Working Group Report 1:41:17

1 year ago1:41:17

1:41:17

This super-sized episode has the guys interviewing several people from a recent Expert Working Group on Human Factors in the discipline of DNA. Glenn starts by giving Eric his “Where in the Whorld” question and they catch up on some recent travels. Glenn also explains why this episode does NOT feature a continuation of the previous episode on the Peacemaker case, but instead pivots to a different DNA topic. In May 2024, NIJ/NIST released a Human Factors and Forensic DNA Interpretation report. (The) Niki Osborne, Ph.D., the project lead and contractor for NIST (Natl Institute of Standards and Technology) describes how the project came to be and how NIST selected the Expert Working Group (EWG). Then, two members of the EWG, Jarrah Kennedy, Assistant DNA Supervisor, Kansas City Police Crime Laboratory, and Michelle Madrid, DNA Technical Leader, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, discuss the various recommendations in the report. The group covers all sorts of fun topics within DNA discipline such bias, new software and computational approaches, activity level, implementation, enforcement, and so forth. The episode ends with Niki and Glenn discussing other disciplines and future reports. Links to the free report: Expert Working Group on Human Factors in Forensic DNA Interpretation (May 2024). Forensic DNA Interpretation and Human Factors: Improving Practice Through a Systems Approach. National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD, NIST IR 8503. http://doi.org/10.6028/NIST.IR.8503 https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8503.pdf Guests: Nikola Osborne, Ph.D., NIST Contractor, and Project Lead for the Expert Working Group. Jarrah Kennedy, Assistant DNA Supervisor, Kansas City Police Crime Laboratory Michelle Madrid, DNA Technical Leader, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department…

Double Loop Podcast

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Episode 271 - SD v Peacemaker Case and Anjali Ranadive Interview 1:26:57

1 year ago1:26:57