Collaborative Software Design • Evelyn van Kelle, Gien Verschatse, Kenny Baas-Schwegler & Xin Yao

GOTO - The Brightest Minds in Tech

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Read the full transcription of the interview here

Evelyn van Kelle - Behavioral Change Consultant at Xebia
Gien Verschatse - Senior Consultant at Aardling
Kenny Baas-Schwegler - Collaborative Modeling Facilitator at Weave IT
Xin Yao - Independent Consultant Contextualizing DDD & Sociotechnical Architecture
RESOURCES
Evelyn
https://bsky.app/profile/evelynvankelle.bsky.social
https://evelynvankelle.com

Gien
https://bsky.app/profile/selketjah.bsky.social
https://www.gienverschatse.com
Kenny
https://bsky.app/profile/kenny.weave-it.org
https://weave-it.org

Xin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/xinxin
https://bsky.app/profile/settling-mud.bsky.social

Links
https://collaborative-software-design.com
https://bsky.app/profile/collaborative-software-design.com

DESCRIPTION
In a spirited discussion on collaborative modeling and decision-making, the the authors of “Collaborative Software Design: How to Facilitate Domain Modeling Decisions”—Evelyn vVan Kelle, Gien Verschatse, and Kenny Baas-Schwegler—explored the power of inclusive decision-making, shared understanding, and how to navigate social dynamics like bias, ranking and conflict in teams together with Xin Yao.
They highlighted the importance of facilitating not just through structured methods, but by empowering everyone in the team to contribute and lead decisions. Drawing from their experiences, they shared insights into the process of making better decisions through collaboration, the impact of "Deep Democracy", and the value of being able to step back and allow teams to thrive independently. Their conversation also touched on resources like Thinking, Fast and Slow, Jam Cultures, and Sitting in the Fire—tools to help teams make smarter decisions and grow together.
RECOMMENDED BOOKS
van Kelle, Verschatse &Baas-Schwegler • Collaborative Software Design
Jitske Kramer • Jam Cultures
Danielle Braun & Jitske Kramer • The Corporate Tribe
Arnold Mindell • Sitting in the Fire
Daniel Kahneman • Thinking, Fast and Slow
Ge

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Chapters

1. Intro (00:00:00)

2. Challenges of writing a book collaboratively (00:10:15)

3. Understanding shadows & their role in collaboration (00:15:27)

4. The challenge of brownfield complexity (00:26:48)

5. Understanding & managing tech. debt through collaborative decision-making (00:32:04)

6. Moments of fulfillment in facilitation (00:38:14)

7. Resources for collaborative modeling & decision-making (00:45:07)

8. Outro (00:49:37)