Cardinal George Pell with Tess Livingstone

Gotta Be Saints

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In this episode of the Gotta Be Saints Podcast, I sit down with Tess Livingstone—Australian journalist, longtime editor at The Australian, and author of the definitive biography of the late Cardinal George Pell.

Tess offers a powerful and deeply informed reflection on the life, legacy, and final years of one of the most consequential and controversial Catholic figures of our time. Drawing on years of firsthand reporting, personal interviews, and her new biography, she helps us see Cardinal Pell not just as a headline, but as a man shaped by faith, courage, and suffering.

This episode offers timely insights for anyone seeking to understand Cardinal Pell’s impact on the global Church, his wrongful imprisonment, and the future of Catholic leadership.

Topics Covered:

• What Cardinal Pell was really like behind closed doors
• How he handled media scrutiny and public backlash with faith and fortitude
• The truth behind his unjust imprisonment—and the global reaction to his exoneration
• Why Tess decided to write this biography and what surprised her along the way
• Cardinal Pell’s views on Church reform, tradition, and the modern world
• How he remained joyful and faithful even in the face of false accusations
• Lessons Catholics can take from his example today

📖 Pick up Tess Livingstone’s new biography Cardinal Pell through Ignatius Press or wherever books are sold.

📲 Follow Tess’s journalism in The Australian for continued insights on Church and society.

🎙️ Subscribe, share, and leave a review if this conversation gave you a renewed appreciation for truth, justice, and fidelity to the Gospel.

🙏 Special thanks to this episode’s sponsor, Truthly. Use code gottabesaints for a free trial at truthly.ai.

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