Behind the Scenes of a Successful Marketing Process From Concept to Execution

Ladies Who Launch

Ever wondered what it takes to turn a new client into a long-term relationship? In this episode, Alyssa and Dakota dive into crafting a successful onboarding process to execute clear deliverables on a structured timeline. From brainstorming creative concepts to executing multi-channel campaigns, we cover it all.

Episode highlights:

Creating a proper client onboarding process, transparency and communicating deliverables and timelines will lead to long-term client relationships.

Here are items to provide to ensure a strong client onboarding experience:

1. Preparation and Welcome:
   • Send a personalized welcome email, introducing the main points of contact and outlining next steps.
   • Share a welcome packet or client guide that includes your services, communication protocols, and project timeline.
     
2. Kickoff Meeting:
   • Hold an initial meeting to discuss the client’s goals, expectations, and any pain points.
   • Review the project scope, deliverables, timelines, and any relevant documentation.
     
3. Setting Expectations:
   • Clearly define roles and responsibilities on both sides.
   • Establish preferred communication channels and frequency of updates.
     
4. Gathering Information and Documentation:
   • Collect any necessary files, branding guidelines, login credentials, or project-specific data.
   • Use a checklist to ensure you have everything you need to start effectively.
     
5. Project Plan and Milestones:
   • Develop a clear project roadmap with key milestones and deadlines.
   • Share the plan with the client to make sure everyone is aligned.
     
6. Training and Support (if needed):
   • Provide training on how to use client portals, collaboration tools, or project management systems.
   • Offer resources and guides to make the process smoother.
     
7. Ongoing Communication and Follow-Up:
   • Maintain regular check-ins to update on progress and address any concerns.
   • Gather feedback to continuously improve the experience and build trust.

Takeaways

• Work with clients that align with your values
• Be transparent about mistakes and any issues around timelines or budgets
• Ensure all stakeholders are involved in the kick-off session
• Celebrate your wins

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Ladies Who Launch is a podcast for marketers by marketers.

[email protected]
Instagram: @ladieswholaunchpod

Your hosts:

Dakota Kidby owns Social Centric, a digital marketing agency based in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
Instagram: @socialcentricinc

Alyssa Berry owns Alyssa Berry Communications, a boutique public relations agency based in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
Instagram: @aly_b_yyc

Resources and links:

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Transcript:

Dakota Kidby: [00:00:08] Hey, hey, welcome to Ladies Who Launch, the podcast where we cut through the noise, ditch the fluff and get real about all things marketing.

Alyssa Berry: [00:00:16] That's right, we are your host, Dakota and Alyssa, two entrepreneurs from Calgary who are here to serve up equal parts solid advice, industry banter, and a whole lot of unfiltered opinions.

Dakota Kidby: [00:00:27] So grab your coffee, buckle up, and get ready for a podcast that's equal parts fun and real talk. Whether you're in the biz or just curious about what goes down behind the scenes of marketing, we've got you covered.

Alyssa Berry: [00:00:38] Let's get to it. Welcome to Ladies Who Launch.

Dakota Kidby: [00:00:46] Welcome back to another episode of the Ladies Who Launch. We are coming at you from a very cold Calgary, Alberta. Yes, that's right friends, it is March 29th and it snowed a lot. So that's the spring tease for you here in Alberta.

Alyssa Berry: [00:01:03] Yeah. It's, uh, what? Fake? What do they call it, fake spring or?

Dakota Kidby: [00:01:08] The fake spring.

Alyssa Berry: [00:01:10] Here we are. Which is why Dakota... Yeah, which is why Dakota and I are in hoodies and hats today. Because it wasn't, it wasn't a day for venturing and getting ourselves suited up.

Dakota Kidby: [00:01:23] No, but we endeavor to actually go for dinner after this. And, like, honestly, both of us are like, no, we're staying home. It's so cold. I shoveled, I think like three feet of snow off of my sidewalk today.

Alyssa Berry: [00:01:34] It's not even like it's I mean, it's cold, it's chilly, but it's not cold cold. It's just lots of snow and it's that heavy, wet spring snow, which is the worst. Anyway.

Dakota Kidby: [00:01:44] Absolutely. But today we want to talk to you guys about going behind the scenes of a successful marketing process. So basically, how to take a concept that a client would bring to you, whether you're in-house or an entrepreneur, and taking that concept to execution. And the reason we want to talk about this is something happened to me this week that I don't think has ever happened to me in my entire time running Social Centric. And it kind of got me thinking about my own processes and transparency in the sense that perhaps I need to be more clear about things sometimes. But I was thinking we could kick off with this because Alyssa hasn't heard the story yet.

Alyssa Berry: [00:02:28] Please do.

Dakota Kidby: [00:02:29] Okay. So without naming names, I had this really fantastic, cool business reach out to me and ask me for some support with their marketing. The very first thing that I do with a client when they come to me is I ask them if they have a plan. So do you have an overarching plan for your company or like a campaign that you want to run or a product that you want to launch? And I want to say like 98% of the time there is no plan in place, not even an overarching one. So from a due diligence and ethics standpoint, the very first thing that we do, even if we are just focusing on one tactic or solution, is we want to have some sort of a strategy or plan around that.

Dakota Kidby: [00:03:12] And so I said to this person, okay, this is step one of our process. This is how this gets executed. And let me know how that sits and we can go from there. And I was very clear, I thought, from day one that it didn't include implementation. And anyway, we go through the process, we work together for three weeks. Great strategy, and of course, strategies always have a bit of a phased out approach. Right? So they can kind of come off as a bit of a timeline, but there's a lot of meat and juice in there that is the solution-oriented piece of what we're doing. And then from there, what will end up happening is clients will often come back to us and say, okay, great, now we need help executing. And so we would send them another contract, which is a different kind of contract and a price that would take care of that scope. And oftentimes we ask clients to sign up for a monthly fee because the project tends to be ongoing, just because it makes more sense from like a expectation standpoint on both sides. But other times we'll just do an hourly. So in this case, I proposed, of course, the monthly because there was a bunch of stuff that we needed to get done, and it was going to take probably about six months. Anyway, she came back and said, oh my God. I didn't realize that this strategy thing didn't include actual execution.

Dakota Kidby: [00:04:32] And I was like, oh, well, what do you mean? And she's like, oh, I just like, I probably would not have invested in this had I not known that I was going to get actual help after. And I was like, oh, crap. So how I chose to handle it because first of all, I really respect and appreciate this person and I believe in their product, and I was kind of like, you know, I went back through all of our communications and like all of our agreements and everything like that. And I was like, you know, I'm pretty sure I was clear on this, but maybe I wasn't. And because they're a smaller business owner, perhaps this isn't actually, this isn't like the way I should be running this side of my business. So what I then ended up doing was spending a pretty solid chunk of time creating an actual like process and operation for specific businesses that have a lower budget. And it was like, you know what? Moving forward, I'm going to offer the strategy, but then I'm also going to offer some implementation because for organizations that don't have a huge budget, it might seem like a lot to just get that strategy piece done. So it was a really good learning experience for me because it helped me to like, add more value to this specific piece of my business, but also reminded me that clear-cut communication at every step of the way that is documented is a must.

Alyssa Berry: [00:05:52] That is a tough lesson that I think many of us have experienced at some point, whether in our own business or otherwise. I think even in in-house, if you're working in-house, I think sometimes you'll get a, you'll move forward on a project or something, and suddenly your boss or director or something is like, this isn't what I asked you to do, or this isn't the direction and blah blah blah, and that you didn't keep copious notes or anything during the lead-up meetings. And so you have no recourse to be like, no, this is what we discussed and this is what I'm moving forward. So then you get yourself into a pickle. And I think that's just a good learning for everyone. But from a business perspective, I made that mistake early on in running a business and not having processes and like operationally set up from the get go and having very clear contracts. I think that's really where it needs to start with so many projects and even in-house projects like starting with a signed-off creative brief or a signed-off project brief, and then writing a business, it's like a signed-off contract that has very clear outlines of not just deliverables, but also expectations. So one of the things that I had to do in running my business is, I got into trouble moving, with people and clients expecting like proof changes after proof changes after proof changes. And of course, I'm paying for those because I'm paying the designer for their work. So then I'm eating that because I've already quoted the cost of the design to the client, now the designer is coming back to me and charging me for all these over and above changes, like when you're on, like, proof seven or something ridiculous.

Alyssa Berry: [00:07:49] So I made that very clear in all my contracts that you get three proofs included in this cost and any more proofs or changes on any design, anything after that is charged at this X fee per hour or per 15 minutes or whatever, if I really wanted to be that. The other thing I added into mine from a process perspective too, and this is just a learning for anybody running their own business, is that I have specific wording in a clause in my contracts that states when our agreement and our contract is over, I'm not obligated to keep all of your stuff. You will get, you will have access to whatever you've done, and you have your folder and your documents. After 90 days, I can get rid of all of that. I'm not, I'm not your legal book, like your legal document holder. And I'm not responsible for anything that happens to anything after that, because I also got into a bit of a pickle with that in my business, too, where I had a complete computer meltdown and lost a whole bunch of files, and no clients ever came back to me and asked for any, like, I mean, but it was just my realization that, oh wait, I lost all of these files, and if anybody came back to me, I had no clear clause in my contract that I'm not responsible for housing your documents, nor should you want me to be either, because I am not a private closed circuit loop document holder situation here either. So.

Dakota Kidby: [00:09:31] No. And you shouldn't have to give up that space on your computer or your drive. Unless they're an existing client.

Alyssa Berry: [00:09:37] Yeah. So 90 days after our the end date of our contract, once you have everything that you get out of this, all of your file, whatever, you have no claim to anything, after that, that I may or may not have. So, it is interesting, and so when we get, when we talk about like process, like that was a process that we both found, but like that started at a contract stage so that we actually could go back and reference what we outlined and were clear or not clear about.

Dakota Kidby: [00:10:14] Absolutely. And it's so funny because I run into that pickle, too, in the sense that we are mostly, you know, for the longest time, social media. And so I'll never forget one of our clients that we were parting ways with, and this was a sticky, toxic situation also, we weren't a fan of the client as they were leaving us. They had kind of taken advantage and been disrespectful and we didn't really leave on the best note, but they came back to me and said, I want all my social media graphics from the last three years. And I said, well, that's not part of our contract. And if you want them, you can go through your Facebook and get them. But now we do encourage our clients to start a Pro Canva account. We don't actually do work on our Canva account for clients for the most part, and then therefore they have access to all their graphics if they want to reuse them and stuff after we potentially part ways. And then that just helps us alleviate not having to make space on our drive, and giving them their Canva. Now, if a client says to us, well, we don't want to pay for that and we're using our Canva account, I've said to that we have a clear clause in our contract that they relinquish all, you know...

Alyssa Berry: [00:11:32] Rights.

Dakota Kidby: [00:11:32] Expectation that they would get. And then they also, if they ever did need us to do some sort of a downloading situation from social or our Canva for them onto a drive, it's like a $150 fee at the end of their contract for us to do that.

Alyssa Berry: [00:11:47] Yeah.

Dakota Kidby: [00:11:48] So that's just, we just explained that that's the transfer of file fee and process moving forward.

Alyssa Berry: [00:11:55] It is interesting how things have changed, even in like the decade that I've had my business and sort of the expectations now and the amount of software that we all use and having, I was the same. I just used to do client work on my own pro Canva and it's like, yeah, don't do that anymore. Like, I'm not, I'm not, no, and even like ChatGPT. So most of us have business, are paying for business access to ChatGPT for various reasons, but then I think, is this like also something you could get called out on by using ChatGPT for client work? But then I'm like, ah, I use ChatGPT in my full time job all the time, so I'm like, I guess if a client really wanted to get all like nitpicky about it, like cool, but, I think there's a lot of things now that we're using that technically, I guess, could be breach of privacy in that way, because we're really putting client information into ChatGPT even if we're not using their names and stuff, we're still putting client information into ChatGPT. But then I'm like, eh, I do that for the company I work for, I put their, although they have their own corporate private ChatGPT whatever.

Dakota Kidby: [00:13:18] But yeah that's another thing, like they have if, you know, and I think there will come a day where it's like you set up a suite of tools for a client and then you use that suite of tools and it's not, you know, far-fetched also for us to manage like a Hootsuite or a Metricool or a Sprout account that a client has, like, we give them that option, we say, hey, we can either use our Metricool, which will give you client access to, and you can see all your analytics in a live dashboard as well as, and that's been a godsend for me, to be honest, but they have access to everything. Or we can use your account, however, like if it doesn't have the capabilities that ours does, then, well.

Alyssa Berry: [00:13:55] You just have to know that.

Dakota Kidby: [00:13:57] Yeah, we'd recommend this software at this point, but yeah that kind of, yeah, like brings us to getting, we want you guys to get out your notebooks and pay attention because we're going to master the scenes of a successful marketing process from concept to execution. So, Alyssa, you want to kick it off with client onboarding?

Alyssa Berry: [00:14:20] Onboarding. Yes.

Dakota Kidby: [00:14:21] I feel like you're the best at this.

Alyssa Berry: [00:14:24] It's, and it's taken a long time to get to this point, but again, as I said, through the trials and tribulations of me making mistakes and all of that stuff, but onboarding is really the most important step because the onboarding is the relationship. Not only the relationship that you're building personally with your client or, whether internal or external clients, because this relates to internal stakeholders from a business from a corporation perspective too if you're not running your own business, it helps set the parameters that help set the stage for what's going to happen. And ultimately, a successful onboarding process leads to a longer-term business relationship. And I have found in my time that the best onboarding processes that I've had with clients are the ones that ended up being, like clients that were like 3, 4 or 5 years long clients because they understood. And what that starts with is having clear objectives of what this relationship is for. Is this relationship for a social media channel refresh? Is this for a rebrand of my assets? Is this for the development of a communications plan? Is this for an internal communication strategy for your corporation? What is that clear thing that we are here to do?

Dakota Kidby: [00:16:07] Like, why are you hiring me? Almost a reminder. Because sometimes clients like - and sorry to interrupt - but I find sometimes clients get really in their own heads, and they rush, I find, to find support. And then when it comes time to sign, it's that conversation of I didn't realize this is how much this cost. I didn't realize that that's what my perception of what I told you I needed, that's your perception. And so this is why that clear communication that Alyssa is talking about is so important, because you almost have to remind the client, like why they're getting into bed with you, so to speak.

Alyssa Berry: [00:16:41] Right. And part of that is, is setting them and you up for success. And that means, as we were just sort of alluding to, getting them set up on all the tools that are required to complete this contractual obligation, and also ensuring that we have access to all accounts, information and personnel that we need access to at the beginning, and having those clear, that clear delineation right at the beginning, because that, and I've run into this many times with clients is like, they're like, they'll forget to give you their social media passwords or their Gmail accounts or all this stuff, and it's like, oh no, I'll get to that. You're going to get it today, you're going to get it today. And then like months have gone by and you haven't done any work because you can't access anything. And you, but that's also on me because I didn't set them up for that. In terms of creating, what I do with my clients is everyone gets their own Google file. So it'll be like XYZ Company, this is your Google file, here's the link, you have access to this, this is where all your assets are going to go. This is all your this is where your contracts going to live, this is where everything is going to go. And I will itemize everything, I'll make folders for contracts and documents and logos, whatever, but this is your domain, this is where everything is going to live.

Alyssa Berry: [00:18:11] Nothing's going to live on your computer. Nothing's living on my computer. This is our space, and so you can't go and be like, oh, this isn't... So that's step one. Now I will say I don't use any like, Honeybook or any of those sort of like, what Dubsado or any of those sort of processing softwares, mainly because they're expensive and I've just never justified it. So I sort of set up my onboarding manually. Like, it's not a formal process, but like the first thing is they get a welcome package with a copy of the signed contract. And a little bit about me and who they're going to be working with. And this is the designer and this is, yeah, this is the writer that we have, and this is going to be the videographer working on your project, blah, blah, blah. Here's a little synopsis of who's who in the zoo here. So, and then I will then send a follow up email with like here are our key check in dates. So phase one check in date is this, and what's going to be discussed is the draft of this strategy check into is this with the first execution dates or I'll have key check in dates because this also sets the stage that they know they're not going to be emailing me 20 times a day.

Dakota Kidby: [00:19:36] Yes, because that can be, that is always a problem.

Alyssa Berry: [00:19:40] Right? It's like here's your key dates.

Dakota Kidby: [00:19:40] But yeah. If you don't have those key dates, then, you know you fell short when you're getting five emails from the client or even just the question of where are you at right now? Where is this at? You don't want that question. You want to have yourself set up so tightly that the client doesn't have to ask. And that is top tier service.

[00:20:00] Hey all, sorry for the interruption. Just wanting to remind you to please give us five stars and subscribe to our podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Honestly guys, this is the way that we build our podcast. And if you're a supporter of Ladies Who Launch, we would really, really appreciate it if you could just give us those five stars and subscribe. Thanks, guys. Now back to the episode.

Alyssa Berry: [00:20:19] And once that email with sort of those key dates and all that's in the calendar, then the email goes out about a strategy session or sort of a pre kind of get to know you, what's going on, getting a lay of the land with the client or manager or whoever you're working with. And that can be anything from a two hour session to a half day session to a full day session, depending on how many stakeholders need to be involved in that. Like I know some nonprofit organizations will have it as a full day because they'll want to bring some of their board members in, or some of their or even corporates might want to have some of their C-suite execs be a part of that to just get everyone on the same page before launching into the next phase of like, developing that strategy. So everybody's sort of been in the know of what the project is and what the key deliverables are and when those key deliverables will be delivered.

Dakota Kidby: [00:21:17] Absolutely. And the other thing is, it's really funny, I have a girlfriend who works in change management, which is essentially when you come in and you are applying a process or a policy, or there's been a big change in an organization, so big, in fact, that you have to hire like a professional to come in and help manage all your stuff. And oftentimes, depending on the depth of the project, marketing can be very similar in that we have that, and same thing with being a lawyer. We have to almost open the business up and understand and diagnose what the gaps and the issues are before we can come up with proper solutions. And so that conversation that takes place prior to strategy or any sort of strategic planning is very crucial because without knowing what you need to know, like through whether it's a thorough questionnaire and conversation or what have you, it's very challenging to do your job properly.

Alyssa Berry: [00:22:09] Agreed. The other thing I'm going to, the other thing I'm going to note before we sort of launch in is when to invoice for this. So I will send my first invoice before the discovery session or the strategy session or whatever you want to call it, because I've also run into issues where I have done work and then invoiced and then not gotten paid, where it's like I don't start work until I get paid for the first bit of work. So however you want to divide out your invoices, whether it's you paid 20%, 20%, whatever, or half and half or a percentage up front or whatever it is, however you want to lay out your invoicing strategy. But I would ensure that you get invoice, you invoice and get paid for any, especially at the beginning if you're out, like you're having to bring on external contractors or you've had to, like, upgrade a software system in order to be able to manage this client or whatever, that you're paid for that before you commence work.

Dakota Kidby: [00:23:16] And I'm even going to take it, I'm going to take it a step further and say that we used to do work first and then get paid. And I just moved in January, January 1st, I moved into a new model. None of my clients had a problem with it at all. New clients haven't seemed to have a problem with it. When it comes to a strategy package that we are doing for a client, they must pay up front. And we will not book any sort of chat or conversation past our 30 minute like, client, you know, discovery call, like intro, yeah, we will not even book the discovery without the payment. In fact, I'm actually waiting on a client who sent the invoice to their accountant, which sometimes the accountants put you into a cycle, and I'm going to have to send a note on Monday being like, I'm sorry if you guys have a cycle, but like, this needs to be paid immediately. Otherwise I have to give up your date to someone else. And like, I just find when you have those boundaries, people respect you more and they are actually, like, more willing to work with you in some cases because it's like, oh, you value yourself and your time. You seem like you're in high demand. Cool. This is going to be worth my time. And so, and it just sets up that cadence and that expectation that, yes, I have very firm boundaries about my time and how I get paid. And even for our retainer clients, their invoices come out on the first of every month now, and we get paid before we do things. The other thing is, and actually, I will call out our wonderful producer, Alex, who does our podcast for teaching me this, like extra edits or late, things that come late, like for us, if we're doing, if we're cutting video for a client and they're sending us clips and we need them by a certain date to hit targets, getting really, really, really tough. And if they don't send things on time or they're, like, significantly stressing you out, then there's fees, right? Like, I've had to charge clients a few times for too many emails. It's like, I started literally billing for emails like lawyers do, because we had a client who'd send us 25 emails a week.

Alyssa Berry: [00:25:16] Yeah, no. And I, and this is all learning too, that a lot of that can be alleviated during that onboarding phase that we talked about earlier, that those expectations are set up front, and that here's our check in dates, and other than that, I don't want to hear from you.

Dakota Kidby: [00:25:35] Unless it's an emergency.

Alyssa Berry: [00:25:36] Unless the house is on fire. Yeah.

Dakota Kidby: [00:25:37] Or they have a question.

Alyssa Berry: [00:25:39] Which is, yeah, why we're reiterating the importance of that onboarding process and those key dates and timelines of when things are going to happen because those dates and timelines are not just for you, they're for them as well, because as Dakota just alluded to, like, if they're late getting you things that you require to complete a deliverable, then you have the recourse to go back to them and a) either charge them for it or b) fire them or like let them go as clients, because that was clearly outlined in the onboarding process as to what the expectations are, both on me as the business owner and you as the client.

Dakota Kidby: [00:26:22] Absolutely.

Alyssa Berry: [00:26:22] And if either one of us reneges or or isn't able to.

Dakota Kidby: [00:26:28] Fulfill our end of the bargain.

Alyssa Berry: [00:26:29] Fulfill, then we both have the recourse to walk away.

Dakota Kidby: [00:26:32] Absolutely. And so, yeah, I would say number one, as Alyssa has been saying, like your onboarding processes is everything. It really sets the stage for the respect, the boundaries and sort of the story of how things are going to go. The other thing I would highly recommend doing right off the bat, just so that it's out of the way, is getting the client into your invoicing software, making some notes or some sort of recourse around what you're doing for them, for your team, just like a client info document almost. And then during the onboarding, so we actually just overhauled our onboarding process and we're still working on massaging it. But what I do now is I pick one day a week and actually I do have a gal who helps with this, but when it's me doing it, I pick one day a week where I do admin, and actually Alyssa taught me this, and during that day it can be anything from filing to invoices to working on the business, whatever. I will say to a client, Kate, you have an onboarding session with us at 9 a.m. on Monday, this is what you need to have done for that onboarding session, get that welcome package together, send it to them ahead of time, and then you use that hour long session to get all their socials connected. Make sure everything's good in the back end, give them a bit of a warning that, hey, if your social media is, your connections are all screwy and someone's missing access and we have to do a bunch of like digging to fix stuff that does incur another fee.

Dakota Kidby: [00:28:04] However, we're going to use this onboarding session to make sure you're all sorted and you kind of give them that foundational onboarding session, and then take that time as well to introduce them to the rest of the team. Just get them acquainted with how things are going to go. Get them acquainted with that timeline, give them their Google Link drive, make sure that they sign off on their contract, and make sure that that invoice is paid. And that's kind of what we're going to do moving forward with our clients. And they seem to really appreciate that. Because the other thing that I find that I run into and have run into in the past is the onboarding process can turn into a month long thing if you don't control it, similarly to what Alyssa had just said, right? So you want to try and get all that shit done right then and there. It should really be you have a 30 minute call with them, if they need more, they have to pay for an hour, right? Because sometimes clients just want some consultation time, they don't actually want to hire you. So that's how you alleviate that gap. And then from there, if they want more, then you book that onboarding call, you send them the documents, they make sure that they are committed pot committed to the to the process. And then from there you book things into your schedule. So Alyssa, how are you managing, like, I'm curious to understand how you, what your thoughts are on managing just like the relationship as it goes.

Alyssa Berry: [00:29:29] What I found works the best is that I have one contact that I work with. There is one direct person that is assigned to me or whatever from your organization. I don't have the time or the inclination to deal with six people in your organization or in your business. And oh, but Sally does this and this. I don't care what Sally or Bobby or whatever do in your back end. You're going to make that, you're going to make sure that Sally and Bobby get Linda all the information, and Linda's the one that I'm going to, I'm going to deal with on a regular basis. Not that I don't love Sally and Bobby, but I, with multiple, multiple clients, I don't have time to, like, sift through your business Rolodex to figure out who I need to talk to to get something done. It's like no, one contact. And so me and Linda, we're going to be besties. And if Linda isn't getting what I need, then I'm going to be able to tell Linda. And I don't have to worry about informing Bobby and Sally, because I assume that Linda's going to inform Bobby and Sally or whoever needs to know. That's key one, is having a person or if you have to, two, like if they're married or something, whatever. But no more. I'm not working with your team of people. I do not care what they do. Don't. So that's step one. And the other thing to keep a relationship, or like whether it's an internal corporate relationship or an external business relationship, healthy is being very transparent. I have found that the minute as a business owner, if I've done something or I've missed something or whatever, and I've tried to like, figure it out and manage it on my end it just becomes...

Dakota Kidby: [00:31:24] ... terrible. Hide it. No, I would just, but yeah, like you try to manage it yourself or, like, brush it under the rug. Absolutely not. You need to tell them immediately.

Alyssa Berry: [00:31:32] Yeah. Transparency. And I expect that of them too. Like if Sally broke her leg and didn't get Linda the photos or whatever, cool. Just let me know. Like, we can work with that. I'm not, like, going to come down there and scream because Sally broke her leg. Like life happens, all that happens, we know that. And that's part of being in a good relationship, is being transparent to be like, hey, I messed up or oh crap, I missed this, I'm going to take care of it right now, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that happens in everyone's day to day life. Like, your husband forgot to go to the grocery store on the way home. Like you just, things happen, but you deal with it and you're transparent about it. So that's like sort of step two is being transparent about things that have happened and being transparent about great things too. Like being very quick to congratulate them on things or praise them on things or if they've got client of the month or, I don't know, like whatever stupid thing you can, stupid thing, but like, people like to also receive positive feedback. Like if every time that you're interacting with someone it's negative or it's to talk about something that went wrong, then that's also a bit of a detriment to a relationship. So make sure that you're like, I would do things like send Starbucks over to clients, like just or if I knew they were having a rough day, I'd like send them.

Dakota Kidby: [00:33:01] A Skip the Dishes gift card.

Alyssa Berry: [00:33:02] Or some DoorDash or Skip the Dishes or whatever. Because those...

Dakota Kidby: [00:33:06] Like, celebrations. Like it's their birthday, like it's their company's birthday or...

Alyssa Berry: [00:33:12] Yeah, anniversaries. Or like they just hired someone new, so send them some flowers, or someone's leaving and all those sorts of things matter. I would always keep notes of those kind of things in my calendar if I knew things were coming up or if clients I knew were going to a conference or they had a big presentation coming up or any of that kind of stuff, I would always like, put that in my calendar and send them a note or an email or like a text, be like, good luck, blah, blah, blah. So that's the other thing is that like always leading with the positive instead of the only time you're talking to them is if something went sideways. That's also the other thing. But in parallel to that, this is also a learning, is that your clients aren't your friends, just like your coworkers aren't your friends. You don't share personal information. You don't talk about your personal life. You don't talk about going on dates. Like there is a line, like this is still a professional relationship, and I don't care that they're the same age as you, or they're also single or whatever, it's professional because you don't know who they know, and the world is very small, and you don't ever want to be, like, bitching about a guy that you went on a date with but it turns out like that guy is like their cousin's best friend or something. Like, you have no idea who people know, right? So that's always a very clear line for me, is that you don't know anything about me. You know who I am. You know I do good work, you know, whatever. But you don't know what I do when we're not together, because it's none of your business. And I don't need to know anything about you either. And so that's sort of the number three too, is that be very, have very clear boundaries of client or even boss/staff or like internally, right. Like no one needs, no one wants to or should know about your personal issues.

Dakota Kidby: [00:35:11] And if I could add like a what am I trying to say? You know what I mean. And yeah section to that, I would say enjoy your connections with people. Like, that's not to say that you can't have a conversation or something, but case in point, if somebody knows you too well, oftentimes meeting agendas will also get completely out of control. So and I'm...

Alyssa Berry: [00:35:40] Totally off the rails.

Dakota Kidby: [00:35:41] ... because I like to be friends with everybody. And I am a recovering people pleaser. So the other day, actually, I had the worst migraine of my life, I just like wasn't feeling great, but I, you know, I was at the meeting, showed up, it was all good. And my client and I well, she started talking about politics and...

Alyssa Berry: [00:35:58] Oh, God, what is wrong with people?

Dakota Kidby: [00:35:59] No, but we always, like, have conversations about politics. Like and we're buds and we, again, going against everything Alyssa said. But I do really love working with this client and like we do have a lot in common. So she and I do banter. But anyway, I literally had to say, I'm so sorry, but like, we only have an hour and I'm exhausted and I'm not feeling the greatest today. Do you think we can just get through this meeting? And then I have to go grab a coffee. Then we'll do our next thing that we have to do. And then I gotta go, like, and she was like, nope, no problem at all, all good, like so sorry. And I was like, no, no, it's fine. It's just that again, if you build that personal rapport with your clients, your objectives with getting work done are going to be more ineffective no matter how you swing it. It's the difference between coming in for an hour, meeting with your counselor, right, and then, like, going for wine with them and then having a meeting. So like, just differentiate those two things. If you want to go banter with your client because you find them interesting as a human being, separate it. Ask them to go for wine as a separate human being. Do you know what I mean? Or don't?

Alyssa Berry: [00:36:59] See, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even recommend that.

Dakota Kidby: [00:37:02] But, I mean, I am friends with some of my clients, so like I have a different standpoint.

Alyssa Berry: [00:37:05] But here's the thing, though. Like if that personal relationship goes south, what does that mean for your business relationship?

Dakota Kidby: [00:37:12] I'm not close with them in that respect. I would say if the, like the personal relationship going south probably isn't a, I'm not like besties with any of my clients. I do have one client who I am pretty good friends with, that if she and I ever had a falling out and then like the contract, it wouldn't bother me because it'd be like, well, I don't really want to work with you anyway, but I will say I am, like, I do have a couple of other clients that like, I'll go, I would go and have a beer with them. But we have a very clear, like line in the sand that we both understand, if that makes sense. And they've just been with me for a really long time, so it's almost been impossible to not develop a friendship because we've been through more with each other than just the work. Like, I've seen them go through things and they've seen me go through things, we've had each other's backs, you know, that kind of stuff. And so sometimes it can be inevitable. But for the most part it, you really should look at it like a relationship with your psychologist. It's, you're there to get work done and you don't need to offer up any more of your time than that. And you're also not their therapist.

Alyssa Berry: [00:38:18] No. And they're not your therapist.

Dakota Kidby: [00:38:21] Absolutely.

Alyssa Berry: [00:38:22] I'm going to caveat that politics talk for a second, because I think Dakota and I need to do an episode on this because when I said, oh, politics, what are you doing? Because, like, normally, like generally politics in a business meeting doesn't really come up. But I mean, and I've said this before in this podcast and like anybody could see, my political affiliations are fairly notable.

Dakota Kidby: [00:38:48] Like, people know.

Alyssa Berry: [00:38:48] People know my thoughts on things and people know.

Dakota Kidby: [00:38:51] They know who you are.

Alyssa Berry: [00:38:51] So I do have a caveat to the whole political thing because when people talk about like, oh, don't, don't ever share your politics or whatever online or like separate your personal and your business brand in that way, I'm like, no, because I have seen a lot of people on LinkedIn who I will know I'll never work with because of the shit that they post on LinkedIn of all places. Right? Like when did LinkedIn become Facebook? But that's a whole other conversation.

Dakota Kidby: [00:39:21] It's true.

Alyssa Berry: [00:39:22] Because, yeah, like they're raging Trumpers.

Dakota Kidby: [00:39:26] And so are you saying it's a bad thing?

Alyssa Berry: [00:39:28] White nationalists. No. I want to know. Now I know. So I, because I work with people who who align with my values, like I'm a person, no one should be separating their personal feelings or their values about things because of business. Like, and I've said this on this podcast before, but I'm a vegetarian, so I would never work with the like Canadian Beef Association and not because they're bad or that I, but I would have no idea what I would communicate about the Canadian Beef Association, because I don't eat it and I don't have any concept of it. So it's the same with like aligning myself with a Raging Trumper client. I would never do that because I have no interest in promoting whatever the heck you're doing or like you're Elon Muskness or whatever the hell. So I'm a big proponent of like, yeah, share your political leanings like as a personal person, personal person, online so I can know because it's a good way to weed out, and that maybe is an onboarding process too, is that I look at people's socials, I look and see like outside of their business. Because like if you're, if what you're representing on your business goes completely against who you are as a person and what you're promoting on your personal accounts, I also don't want to work with you.

Alyssa Berry: [00:40:50] So, and people do that with me too, like, I mean, I'm sure there's people who are like, oh my God, you're like a raging leftist. I'm like, I'm not really a leftist, but I guess if you're like a Trumper, that would seem appropriate. But yeah, I don't want to work with you. Like, yeah, you can weed me out too, like, have at her. So that's the other thing is like, yeah, not being like all besties and like therapists with your clients, but also working with people who you align with and align with your values is really important, because if you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, like if you're like, can you imagine, like working with, like an anti-abortion organization?

Dakota Kidby: [00:41:27] And even if I was like managing their like working on a strategy for call it like their flower shop, and I found out that they were like doing that on the weekend, I would just feel really uncomfortable and I wouldn't want to be aligned with it. That's the other thing. Yeah, like we've had a couple of clients over the years contact us to work with them. And just like the alignment wasn't there based off of a value standpoint. So, but yeah, I think like the final thing I would leave with you guys in terms of, or that we would leave with you guys in terms of like the processes, that your exit process is just as important as your onboarding. So clients are going to go. Everything ends eventually. So just having a really thorough exit process as well, like a nice questionnaire or conversation around like how was the work? Could we have done anything better? Can we get our testimonial, whether it's like a video testimonial or a quote or we're going to prepare a case study. You know, we're going to put that on our website. We'd love for you to, like, spread the word when we post about it on LinkedIn and tag you. So just taking that opportunity to to get that word, and then a referral, maybe offering them like, hey, if you know, things went so well with us, so if you refer to us, we will give you, you know, 10% off your next service or, you know, we would really love a referral. So that's your opportunity.

Alyssa Berry: [00:42:48] Yeah. And that's also where that whole piece about here's all of the stuff we worked on, there's your Google Drive, and after this, like I'm not responsible, so don't like send me an email in seven months. Be like, whatever. Can I get a copy of that? Like, yeah.

Dakota Kidby: [00:43:05] And it's the opportunity to get removed off their social channels too, which you absolutely should do, and tell them to change their passwords.

Alyssa Berry: [00:43:10] You need to get removed.

Dakota Kidby: [00:43:11] Yeah. That's right.

Alyssa Berry: [00:43:12] Yes. So I mean it's sort of closing the loop and like sending a nice thank you. I've done that in the past, too, for clients is like sent them a bottle of wine to their office or whatever as like a thanks for working with each other and blah, blah, blah, like, always those things because even if it didn't entirely end on the best terms, like if something happened or if maybe the contract ended early for various different reasons, like it wasn't someone's fault, it's just timing or budget or whatever, always be the bigger person because again, you don't know who people know.

Dakota Kidby: [00:43:46] Always be the bigger person and just be professional. Stay in your lane, keep your head down. You know, live in your lane.

Alyssa Berry: [00:43:55] And that's how, like, Dakota and I have had clients for three, four, five, whatever years. Like you treat people well and do good work, and they will stick around because even if they threaten, like and I've had clients threaten from time to time to be like, well, I think we're going to RFP for this, and I'm like, cool.

Dakota Kidby: [00:44:13] Yeah, if you need some fresh blood, I get it. One thing I will say, though, someone, an old boss of mine taught me this, and I think it is some of the best advice I've ever gotten. She said to me, help people in a way that you would never expect anything back. And so I think just from a community standpoint, and if a client has left your roster, but maybe they reach out just for like a quick piece of advice, highly recommend knowing when to differentiate from like, okay, this, I'm going to give you this my time or, you know, or like, oh, it's a big ask so I have to charge for it. Like, I, Alyssa and I are big on like, being there for people where it's appropriate. And of course, this community, Ladies Who Launch is all about that. It's about supporting people who don't have sounding boards and teams, and they need community to thrive. And I'll never forget, I asked a fellow provider for some advice one time, and she was like, well, I'm very busy and I have kids and like, my time is very precious to me, so I do have to charge you for this hour that we're going to chat. And at the time, I remember I was livid. I was like, what a, you know, like, I can't believe she would charge. What the heck? Then as time went on and people started to ask me for things, it was like, oh yeah, a five minute conversation or connection point, no problem. An introduction, no problem. Quick piece of advice, absolutely no worries. Even if it is an hour long conversation, as long as it feels good in my gut. But there are opportunities where, yeah, it's completely appropriate to charge for your time as you become a subject matter expert in something. And now looking back, I'm like, you go, girl, I really shouldn't have been offended. So just knowing when it's time to lend a hand and just be kind versus, you know, charging for your time.

Alyssa Berry: [00:46:08] Yeah. Because that's the other thing you learn as grizzled veterans and running businesses is that your time is worth a lot.

Dakota Kidby: [00:46:15] It's worth something. Absolutely.

Alyssa Berry: [00:46:17] And you can give that time away to the things that you value to give your time to. But for every rando who wants to have to pick your brain for half an hour...

Dakota Kidby: [00:46:29] If you're getting those requests like 20 times a week. That being said, too, I will admit, like, I've even caught myself asking for too much sometimes from friends and people that I have in my circle. And yeah, it's, you know, you think that it's okay, but you do have to be respectful of people's time and stuff like that. So with that, we hope that this has been helpful and we would love to hear more from you guys. If you want to know, if you've had any like process mishaps or blow ups, we would love to hear from you guys. So just DM us on Instagram at Ladies Who Launch Pod or send us an email at Ladies Who Launch Pod at gmail.com and we'll see you in two weeks.

Alyssa Berry: [00:47:14] Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Ladies Who Launch.

Dakota Kidby: [00:47:18] Don't forget to hit the subscribe button and give us five stars anywhere you listen to podcasts. Honestly guys, if you can do that for us, we would be so thankful. It's how we grow our podcast and the more subscriptions and the more five stars we get, the better. So thank you so much for supporting us and we'll see you next time on Ladies Who Launch.