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Paul Chen - Testing With All Audiences, User Sentiment, and What Customers Value

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Content provided by Centercode. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Centercode or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

About This Episode:

What does it mean to really value something? When it comes to products and product development, does that mean enjoying a certain set of features? Or does it go beyond the simple feature set to encompass how a product makes someone feel? Or how immersed they are while they use it?

Value is something that we’re always trying to provide - to whatever audience we serve, and in today’s episode, we had some amazing insight into what value means to every audience.

Here to discuss and explore these ideas with us is Paul Chen, Senior Director of E-Design at Mattel. Paul leads a global team at one of the world’s top toy companies to engineer and develop electronic designs that enable the next generation to explore the wonder of childhood. Paul brought a lot of amazing stories and insights to the table, from his time at Microsoft helping to launch Surface, to the quirks of developing routers for different audiences at Cisco and Linksys, and adopting the mindset that the designer isn’t always the user. Paul’s passion and love for design really shined through in this episode, and it was great being able to share his love for innovation with you all.

Paul Chen is the Senior Director of E-Design at Mattel, leading a global team that creates the electronics for toys and baby gear, focused on electronic designs that enable the next generation to explore the wonder of childhood.

Prior to Mattel, Paul brought Agile Methodologies and Design Thinking/Human Centered Design to multiple companies as a Product Management Leader. Paul is fiercely in love with innovation – with over 18 patents, worked on the earliest Wi-Fi chipset, and wrote the initial MRD and PRD for Microsoft Surface.

As a people leader, Paul has established cohesive roll-out roadmap, dev cycle and release execution for multiple companies; securing #1 positions and market success with a portfolio of consumer products.

(0:00) - Intro

(01:55) - Paul’s career so far

(03:02) - Microsoft Surface, user design, and taking cues from users and competitors

(12:00) - Identifying what users value and combating cognitive bias

(18:40) - Mattel, testing with younger audiences, and Centercode

(26:20) - Understanding that you are not always the user

(30:00) - What users say vs. what users do, sentiment, and core user value

(33:50) - When to test, Barbie, product evolution, and knowing when to listen

(39:30) - Dogfooding, “tribal knowledge”, and learning from every user

(42:10) - Creating personas to represent numerous audiences in tests

(51:00) - Connecting with audiences in a meaningful way

(54:27) - What are you passionate about in beta testing?

Zero-Cost Resources and Guides:

Beta Test Planning Kit: https://bit.ly/sw_plan_kit

Beta Recruitment Kit: https://bit.ly/recruit_kit

Centercode Visual Theming Guide: https://bit.ly/visual_themes

Beta Agreement Kit: https://bit.ly/agreement_kit

The Beta Shipping Manual: https://bit.ly/ship_manual

The Tester Engagement Pocket Guide: https://bit.ly/tester_map

Beta Test Incentive Kit: https://bit.ly/incentives_kit

Beta Test ROI Kit: https://bit.ly/beta_roi_kit

The Definitive Guide to Delta Testing: https://bit.ly/guide_to_delta

  continue reading

28 episodes

Artwork
iconShare
 
Manage episode 378918017 series 3518055
Content provided by Centercode. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Centercode or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

About This Episode:

What does it mean to really value something? When it comes to products and product development, does that mean enjoying a certain set of features? Or does it go beyond the simple feature set to encompass how a product makes someone feel? Or how immersed they are while they use it?

Value is something that we’re always trying to provide - to whatever audience we serve, and in today’s episode, we had some amazing insight into what value means to every audience.

Here to discuss and explore these ideas with us is Paul Chen, Senior Director of E-Design at Mattel. Paul leads a global team at one of the world’s top toy companies to engineer and develop electronic designs that enable the next generation to explore the wonder of childhood. Paul brought a lot of amazing stories and insights to the table, from his time at Microsoft helping to launch Surface, to the quirks of developing routers for different audiences at Cisco and Linksys, and adopting the mindset that the designer isn’t always the user. Paul’s passion and love for design really shined through in this episode, and it was great being able to share his love for innovation with you all.

Paul Chen is the Senior Director of E-Design at Mattel, leading a global team that creates the electronics for toys and baby gear, focused on electronic designs that enable the next generation to explore the wonder of childhood.

Prior to Mattel, Paul brought Agile Methodologies and Design Thinking/Human Centered Design to multiple companies as a Product Management Leader. Paul is fiercely in love with innovation – with over 18 patents, worked on the earliest Wi-Fi chipset, and wrote the initial MRD and PRD for Microsoft Surface.

As a people leader, Paul has established cohesive roll-out roadmap, dev cycle and release execution for multiple companies; securing #1 positions and market success with a portfolio of consumer products.

(0:00) - Intro

(01:55) - Paul’s career so far

(03:02) - Microsoft Surface, user design, and taking cues from users and competitors

(12:00) - Identifying what users value and combating cognitive bias

(18:40) - Mattel, testing with younger audiences, and Centercode

(26:20) - Understanding that you are not always the user

(30:00) - What users say vs. what users do, sentiment, and core user value

(33:50) - When to test, Barbie, product evolution, and knowing when to listen

(39:30) - Dogfooding, “tribal knowledge”, and learning from every user

(42:10) - Creating personas to represent numerous audiences in tests

(51:00) - Connecting with audiences in a meaningful way

(54:27) - What are you passionate about in beta testing?

Zero-Cost Resources and Guides:

Beta Test Planning Kit: https://bit.ly/sw_plan_kit

Beta Recruitment Kit: https://bit.ly/recruit_kit

Centercode Visual Theming Guide: https://bit.ly/visual_themes

Beta Agreement Kit: https://bit.ly/agreement_kit

The Beta Shipping Manual: https://bit.ly/ship_manual

The Tester Engagement Pocket Guide: https://bit.ly/tester_map

Beta Test Incentive Kit: https://bit.ly/incentives_kit

Beta Test ROI Kit: https://bit.ly/beta_roi_kit

The Definitive Guide to Delta Testing: https://bit.ly/guide_to_delta

  continue reading

28 episodes

All episodes

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In this episode, Chris Rader welcomes Chip Duval, an experienced Senior Program Manager with expertise at companies like Sonos and Peloton. Chip dives into practical strategies for beta and alpha testing, sharing methods to identify and retain quality testers, collect actionable feedback, and integrate insights for product improvement. He emphasizes the importance of managing both quantitative and qualitative feedback and balancing tester enthusiasm with structured, goal-oriented program design. Chip also discusses the role of tester engagement and the value of a diverse beta pool. With actionable advice on optimizing feedback loops and establishing clear success metrics, this episode offers listeners a roadmap for building impactful testing programs that contribute to long-term product success. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) Intro (1:27) Defining what makes a good beta tester: criteria and metrics (2:18) Key tester evaluation metrics: product usage, bug reports, engagement, and survey responses (5:05) Importance of community engagement and tester collaboration (7:17) Balancing diverse tester personalities to get unbiased insights (10:02) Structuring beta tests with intentional tester selection (13:13) Cost-effectiveness and impact of early bug discovery (15:02) Managing large tester pools for actionable, scalable feedback (21:07) Integrating cross-functional insights for effective launches (32:28) Rapid Fire Questions: Quick insights on beta testing best practices ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ⭐️ Ready to beta test your product with Centercode? Sign up for free now and run a beta test today → https://bit.ly/centercode-home…
 
Quick note – The video files didn’t quite cooperate for this episode, so enjoy the audio-only experience. Keith’s wisdom still shines, so don't sleep on this one! In this episode, Chris Rader sits down with Keith McDonald, Beta Testing Lead at Square, to discuss the art of building beta programs that go beyond just finding bugs. Keith’s career spans more than a decade, including significant roles at Sonos, where he led beta testing for flagship products like the Playbar. Now at Square, he continues to innovate in beta program management, focusing on improving customer experiences and product quality through deep user feedback and strategic testing. Keith shares his journey, the lessons learned along the way, and his thoughts on building high-performing teams with a blend of technical expertise and customer empathy. He also provides insights into the future of beta testing, including how AI could play a role in enhancing, but not replacing, the human touch in testing. Tune in to hear how beta programs can transform product development and why a focus on user experience is key to success. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) - Intro (3:26) - Early challenges in testing at Sonos, launching the Playbar and other hardware products. (10:21) - Keith’s transition to Square: Managing beta programs for hardware teams. (14:10) - Building a beta testing team that balances technical and customer-focused skills. (19:44) - The importance of user feedback and its role in shaping products. (28:41) - Going beyond bugs: How to focus on enhancing user experience in beta programs. (34:14) - Keith’s thoughts on AI’s role in the future of beta testing. (40:00) - Rapid-fire questions…
 
In this insightful episode of Launch With Confidence, we sit down with Jacob Faarkrog Christensen, the Customer Validation Lead at Bang & Olufsen, to explore the evolving role of AI in beta testing and product development. Jacob shares his journey of implementing AI models into their beta programs, which has significantly improved how they collect and analyze feedback. He delves into the challenges of balancing automation with the need for human interaction, ensuring that testers feel engaged and valued throughout the process. Whether you're interested in the technical aspects of AI or the strategic decisions behind product testing, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how Bang & Olufsen is staying ahead in the competitive high-end audio market. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (00:00) - Intro (01:13) - Jacob covers his role at Bang & Olufsen, providing an overview of their beta testing program (02:22) - How beta testing influences product launches and shapes customer-focused development (05:29) - Including existing customers versus new potential customers in beta tests (11:08) - AI's impact on removing friction in the beta process, including log analysis and bug tracking (14:28) - How AI enhances the accuracy of feedback by correcting errors and standardizing reports (20:18) - Jacob discusses how AI assists in managing large-scale beta tests with hundreds of participants (30:10) - Balancing AI and human interaction to maintain engagement and ensure meaningful tester experiences (40:01) - The future of AI in beta testing, including automated insights and dependency analysis for bug fixes (42:43) - Rapid-fire questions…
 
On this episode of Launch With Confidence, we dive into the world of smart home products with Danielle Prince, Beta Coordinator at Wyze Labs. Danielle shares her journey from a support agent to leading Wyze’s innovative beta program, detailing the unique strategies and methodologies that drive their success. She explains how Wyze transitioned from decentralized social media-based testing to a structured platform, ensuring comprehensive feedback and resource optimization. Danielle also highlights the importance of user feedback and the integration of support teams in beta testing. Learn about Wyze's SMART approach to beta testing, which ensures their tests achieve meaningful results for the product team. This episode offers valuable insights into maximizing beta test outcomes, improving product development, and enhancing customer support. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) — Intro (3:40) — Danielle shares her background and role at Wyze. (4:01) — Insight into Wyze's beta program model and its evolution. (5:01) — Discussing the SMART approach to beta testing. (7:20) — The role of the Wizard buddies and support integration. (8:29) — How product managers and support teams handle feedback. (10:44) — Transition from social media-based testing to structured beta programs. (13:12) — Issues with decentralized feedback and the benefits of a standardized testing platform. (16:29) — How Wyze uses beta test results to improve products and support resources. (20:40) —The importance of user feedback and maintaining positive tester relationships. (22:01) — Rapid Fire Questions…
 
Ever wondered how the tech behind baby monitors gets perfected? On this episode of Launch With Confidence, we’re joined by Dylan LeMay, Beta Program Manager at Nanit, who turns real-world chaos into irrefutable insights. As a new dad himself, he blends personal experience with professional expertise to ensure Nanit’s smart baby monitors excel in diverse environments. In this insightful conversation, Dylan reveals the fascinating behind-the-scenes of beta testing in real homes, dealing with everything from varying crib setups to diverse environmental factors. He shares how his personal journey into parenthood has enriched his professional approach, bringing a deeper level of empathy and understanding to his role. Tune in to hear about the trials and triumphs of refining cutting-edge baby tech, and gain invaluable insights into how meticulous testing can lead to products that parents trust and love. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) - Intro (2:00) - Discussing the significance of testing in diverse environments. (4:38) - Challenges faced when testing products for babies in different settings. (7:19) - The importance of beta testing in diverse environments and situations. (10:41) - Balancing technical issues and user experiences in beta testing. (13:09) - How test data makes its way back into product development (14:48) - Recruiting for time-sensitive products and how automation helps keep things on track. (18:41) - The impact of empathy on beta testing and understanding user pain points. (23:10) - Collaborative efforts between beta testing and other departments. (30:58) - Growing a beta program (41:07) - Lightning round, rapid fire Q&A…
 
Dive into the intricate world of digital product management with Raiana Zaman, Senior Product Owner/Analyst at State Employees Credit Union in North Carolina. Transitioning from a developer to a product management role, Raiana brings a unique perspective to the table, bridging the gap between technical execution and strategic product vision. This episode explores Raiana's journey, highlighting the skills and mindset shifts essential for navigating the dynamic landscape of product development in the finance sector. Discover the importance of customer feedback, the art of balancing stakeholder interests, and the crucial role of curiosity and problem-solving in crafting digital products that resonate with users and drive business success. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) - Intro. (2:14) - How development experience benefits her current role. (4:26) - Key skills for moving into product management. (7:00) - The synergy between product marketing and management. (9:27) - Early user involvement in development for better product fit. (13:29) - Prioritizing product quality over strict deadlines. (16:38) - Using user feedback in product betas for refinement. (21:24) - Raiana shares quick insights and personal preferences.…
 
In this episode of Launch With Confidence, we sit down with Jalen McGee, a Product Manager for Microsoft Azure Arc. Jalen shares his journey from internships to product management, offering insights into the skills needed for success and the crucial role of customer feedback in product development. Together, they explore key aspects of product management: Internship Experience: Jalen discusses how his internships at Bandwidth and Microsoft shaped his approach to product management. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the product thoroughly and prioritizing learning over simply showcasing knowledge. Skills for Product Management: The conversation highlights essential skills for product managers, including adaptability and organization. Jalen explains how context switching and balancing priorities from various stakeholders are critical for effective product management. Customer Involvement: Jalen elaborates on the vital role of customers in every phase of product development. He shares strategies for validating hypotheses through indirect testing and continuous feedback, underscoring the importance of building strong customer relationships. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ (0:00) - Intro (2:10) - The impact of internships on Jalen's approach to product management. (4:56) - Jalen's advice to his younger self about valuing learning in tech. (8:46) - Essential skills for product managers, with a focus on adaptability. (13:00) - The value of fresh perspectives from early-career PMs. (18:26) - Discussing customers' crucial role in product development and launch. (23:36) - The benefits of the energy and eagerness of early-career PMs. (27:54) - Rapid-fire questions reveal Jalen's preferences and insights into product management.…
 
In this episode, we’re exploring the world of product management with Maurice Leacock, a seasoned Product Director and current Product Management Consultant at Carrier HVAC. Maurice brings a wealth of experience from leading tech products to market, including robot vacuums, headphones, and fitness scales. We explore the importance of frameworks in product management, the role of passion, and the critical insights gained from beta testing. In This Episode: (0:00) - Intro (1:46) - The role and impact of frameworks in product management. (5:06) - Synergies between product management and design. (7:37) - The influence of passion in product management across different cultures. (10:03) - The importance of impact and influence in product roles. (14:38) - Incremental improvement and its significance in the field. (19:59) - The essential role of customer feedback in product development. (23:43) - Insights on beta testing and its critical role in refining product-market fit. (29:55) - Knowledge from Maurice’s experiences in product management across industries. (35:29) - Lightning round, rapid fire Q&A Join us for a conversation that highlights Maurice’s professional insights and experiences, offering valuable lessons for aspiring product managers and seasoned professionals alike. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their approach to product development and achieve success in the tech world.…
 
Dive into the world of beta program management in industrial robotics on this episode of Launch With Confidence. We're joined by Israel Nunez, Beta Program Manager at Universal Robots, who has transformed their beta testing into a crucial part of product development. In This Episode: (0:00) - Intro (1:00) - The origin story of Universal Robots' beta program and its evolution. (4:20) - The motivation behind Israel's role and the inception of the beta program. (6:06) - Early challenges and growth pains of establishing the beta program. (8:36) - The importance of internal marketing and convincing stakeholders of the beta program's value. (16:16) - Tactics for showcasing the beta program's importance and ROI. (21:45) - Rapid-fire questions revealing personal insights and professional wisdom from Israel. Tune in for an insightful look at making beta testing a strategic asset in a tech-driven industry.…
 
Unveil the groundbreaking developments in fitness technology and much more in this enlightening episode of Launch With Confidence. Join us as John Trainor, an expert in tech innovation and leadership, delves into the four pivotal themes that are reshaping the tech and fitness landscapes: Innovating in Connected Fitness Tech: Explore the latest fitness device and platform advancements that keep us connected, motivated, and in peak health. The Power of Beta Testing: Discover how beta testing revolutionizes product development, enabling teams to deliver superior value at unprecedented speeds. Remote Teams & Productivity: Gain insights into effective strategies for managing remote teams, ensuring high productivity, and fostering collaboration in a dispersed work environment. Overcoming FUD in Tech Teams: Learn techniques to bust fear, uncertainty, and doubt within tech teams, empowering them to innovate confidently and tackle challenges head-on.…
 
Welcome to our latest episode, where we dive into the health and fitness industry with Alexa Murray from Whoop. Join us as we explore what's going on in women's health, the power of continuous discovery, and the art of involving your market in development. Alexa shares her insights on using OKRs, beta testing, and the balance of beachheads and blinders in tech innovation. Get ready to be inspired by a leader who's shaping the future of wearable technology!…
 
About This Episode On the Delta Huddle Podcast, we've discussed two areas that really benefit from beta testing, that being support and customer success. And one other area that really really benefits from getting the voice of your customer in early is customer experience. Now, customer experience is much more than just how the customer interacts with your product. It also extends to how they interact with your entire organization, whether that's reaching out to support for help or working with sales to get more of your product. And today's episode, we talked to Colin Flanagan, director of Customer Experience at Sayge. Now, in Colin's ten years as a leader, he's helped fight churn, create seamless experiences for customers and really strengthen the voice of the customer across organizations. Now, during our conversation, we talked about how trends are changing customer experience, how surprise and delight is suddenly out the door, why it's best to be transparent in a customer experience environment across your entire organization, and how tracking the customer's journey is essential for building a really great customer experience. In This Episode: (0:00) - Intro (2:27) - Colin’s start in customer experience and what customer experience entails (7:50) - How CX, Support, and Beta Testing mesh together (11:50) - Changing trends in CX and leveraging testing to discover those trends (22:52) - Empowering support via feedback and understanding the end user experience through testing (30:35) - How early should the conversation about CX start in product development? (36:28) - Why great beta program managers understand CX and keeping stakeholders informed during planning (40:45) - How sales and support can massively impact a beta program (44:20) - What keeps Colin passionate about CX? (50:47) - Using context to help understand the customer journey (56:44) - Advice Colin would give to his younger self About Our Guest Colin Flanigan is the Director of Customer Experience at Sayge ( http://hellosayge.com ). In his 10+ years as a CX leader and consultant, he has grown and assisted churn-fighting, delight-producing customer-facing teams across industries. He delights in building and scaling excellent, seamless experiences for customers, strengthening the voice of the customer across organizations, and developing quality leaders. ‍ Resources and Links Beta Test Planning Kit: https://bit.ly/sw_plan_kit Beta Recruitment Kit: https://bit.ly/recruit_kit Centercode Visual Theming Guide: https://bit.ly/visual_themes Beta Agreement Kit: https://bit.ly/agreement_kit The Beta Shipping Manual: https://bit.ly/ship_manual The Tester Engagement Pocket Guide: https://bit.ly/tester_map Beta Test Incentive Kit: https://bit.ly/incentives_kit Beta Test ROI Kit: https://bit.ly/beta_roi_kit The Definitive Guide to Delta Testing: https://bit.ly/guide_to_delta…
 
About This Episode One of the joys of the Delta Huddle Podcast is the fact that we talk with experts in a wide array of fields, from transportation and fitness to B2B platforms and entertainment. Today’s episode is a foray into another field, with its own set of challenges: Healthcare. Factors like HIPAA compliance, potential test participants working 12-to-16 hour long shifts, and a wide-variety of use cases make Healthcare an incredibly unique environment for beta testing. Navigating that space can be difficult but also fantastically rewarding, especially in the light of making the care experience better for caregivers and patients alike. And joining us to discuss beta in the world of healthcare is a program manager at one of healthcare’s leading device makers. Casey Hamar is Senior Program Manager Beta & User Testing at Stryker. Stryker produces everything from personal protection and surgical equipment to communicators and hospital beds. In her role as Senior Program Manager, Casey works closely with hospitals, doctors, and other healthcare workers to test and improve products used within the field every day. During our conversation, Casey talked about things like building a body of context around feedback by testing with different audiences in different hospitals, how building relationships with those hospitals allowed her to expand their pay to program, and also why healthcare is such a unique field. About Our Guest Casey Hamar is Senior Program Manager Beta & User Testing at Stryker. Casey began her career at a talent lifecycle and change management consulting firm, which worked with 95% of the Fortune 500. While there, she had the opportunity to partner with many healthcare organizations and grew passionate about improving the experience of caregivers and patients. She then joined a healthcare system, outside of Seattle, as Director of Engagement and PX, where she led strategy development and execution based on understanding consumers' viewpoints. Starting in 2016, Casey served as a Sr. Client Service manager in the PX division of Vocera where she continued to focus on research and experience. In 2021, she transitioned to the newly created role of Sr. Program Manager of Beta and User Testing at Stryker concentrating on an excellent end-user experience and continually improving systems that help drive a GA version of a product that results in rapid market adoption. Timestamps (0:00) - Intro (2:14) - Casey’s program at Stryker and the products they support (5:29) - What does beta testing look like in a medical environment? (8:05) - Casey's success metrics for her beta program (9:50) - Stryker's mission and how their values align with their beta program (14:21) - Tailoring projects and trying to find the right audience (18:52) - Working internally and networking externally to build strong relationships (28:06) - Empowering caregivers and improving the patient experience through testing (31:52) - How context powers feedback and testing with unique audiences (36:35) - Finding creative ways to motivate audiences to submit feedback (42:31) - How Stryker collects and breaks down data during a test (45:58) - Seeing what others don't and keeping an open mind (51:10) - Being inclusive to help reduce friction and increase buy-in (58:07) - What advice would Casey give to her past self? Zero-Cost Resources and Blogs Beta Test Planning Kit: https://bit.ly/sw_plan_kit Beta Recruitment Kit: https://bit.ly/recruit_kit Centercode Visual Theming Guide: https://bit.ly/visual_themes Beta Agreement Kit: https://bit.ly/agreement_kit The Beta Shipping Manual: https://bit.ly/ship_manual The Tester Engagement Pocket Guide: https://bit.ly/tester_map Beta Test Incentive Kit: https://bit.ly/incentives_kit Beta Test ROI Kit: https://bit.ly/beta_roi_kit The Definitive Guide to Delta Testing: https://bit.ly/guide_to_delta…
 
About This Episode Often on the Delta Huddle Podcast, we feature guests who have spent five, ten, and sometimes 30 years in the beta testing space. But this episode is a refreshing new perspective - that of a brand new beta manager leading a beta program forward.Elizabeth Hall is Senior Beta Program Manager at Appian, a low-code B2B platform for automating business processes. Coming from the worlds of product management and user research, Elizabeth is new in her role compared to some of our previous guests, but she’s already spearheading an incredible transformation of Appian’s beta program. In this episode, we explored why it’s important to set the tone for your beta tests, the difference between qualitative and quantitative data, and why mentorship was key for Elizabeth’s start in beta testing. We can’t wait to see how Elizabeth leads her beta program forward, and I hope you enjoy our conversation.…
 
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