The director’s commentary track for Daring Fireball. Long digressions on Apple, technology, design, movies, and more.
…
continue reading
Content provided by LessWrong. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by LessWrong or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
Player FM - Podcast App
Go offline with the Player FM app!
Go offline with the Player FM app!
“The Problem with Defining an ‘AGI Ban’ by Outcome (a lawyer’s take).” by Katalina Hernandez
MP3•Episode home
Manage episode 507660834 series 3364760
Content provided by LessWrong. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by LessWrong or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
TL;DR
Most “AGI ban” proposals define AGI by outcome: whatever potentially leads to human extinction. That's legally insufficient: regulation has to act before harm occurs, not after.
Outline:
(00:12) TL;DR
(02:07) Why outcome-based AGI bans proposals don't work
(03:52) The luxury of defining the thing ex post
(05:43) Actually defining the thing we want to ban
(08:06) Credible bans depend on bright lines
(08:44) Learning from nuclear treaties
The original text contained 2 footnotes which were omitted from this narration.
---
First published:
September 20th, 2025
Source:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/agBMC6BfCbQ29qABF/the-problem-with-defining-an-agi-ban-by-outcome-a-lawyer-s
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
…
continue reading
Most “AGI ban” proposals define AGI by outcome: whatever potentially leads to human extinction. That's legally insufficient: regulation has to act before harm occurs, not after.
- Strict liability is essential. High-stakes domains (health & safety, product liability, export controls) already impose liability for risky precursor states, not outcomes or intent. AGI regulation must do the same.
- Fuzzy definitions won’t work here. Courts can tolerate ambiguity in ordinary crimes because errors aren’t civilisation-ending and penalties bite. An AGI ban will likely follow the EU AI Act model (civil fines, ex post enforcement), which companies can Goodhart around. We cannot afford an “80% avoided” ban.
- Define crisp thresholds. Nuclear treaties succeeded by banning concrete precursors (zero-yield tests, 8kg plutonium, 25kg HEU, 500kg/300km delivery systems), not by banning “extinction-risk weapons.” AGI bans need analogous thresholds: capabilities like autonomous replication, scalable resource acquisition, and systematic deception.
- Bring lawyers in. If this [...]
Outline:
(00:12) TL;DR
(02:07) Why outcome-based AGI bans proposals don't work
(03:52) The luxury of defining the thing ex post
(05:43) Actually defining the thing we want to ban
(08:06) Credible bans depend on bright lines
(08:44) Learning from nuclear treaties
The original text contained 2 footnotes which were omitted from this narration.
---
First published:
September 20th, 2025
Source:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/agBMC6BfCbQ29qABF/the-problem-with-defining-an-agi-ban-by-outcome-a-lawyer-s
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
619 episodes
MP3•Episode home
Manage episode 507660834 series 3364760
Content provided by LessWrong. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by LessWrong or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
TL;DR
Most “AGI ban” proposals define AGI by outcome: whatever potentially leads to human extinction. That's legally insufficient: regulation has to act before harm occurs, not after.
Outline:
(00:12) TL;DR
(02:07) Why outcome-based AGI bans proposals don't work
(03:52) The luxury of defining the thing ex post
(05:43) Actually defining the thing we want to ban
(08:06) Credible bans depend on bright lines
(08:44) Learning from nuclear treaties
The original text contained 2 footnotes which were omitted from this narration.
---
First published:
September 20th, 2025
Source:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/agBMC6BfCbQ29qABF/the-problem-with-defining-an-agi-ban-by-outcome-a-lawyer-s
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
…
continue reading
Most “AGI ban” proposals define AGI by outcome: whatever potentially leads to human extinction. That's legally insufficient: regulation has to act before harm occurs, not after.
- Strict liability is essential. High-stakes domains (health & safety, product liability, export controls) already impose liability for risky precursor states, not outcomes or intent. AGI regulation must do the same.
- Fuzzy definitions won’t work here. Courts can tolerate ambiguity in ordinary crimes because errors aren’t civilisation-ending and penalties bite. An AGI ban will likely follow the EU AI Act model (civil fines, ex post enforcement), which companies can Goodhart around. We cannot afford an “80% avoided” ban.
- Define crisp thresholds. Nuclear treaties succeeded by banning concrete precursors (zero-yield tests, 8kg plutonium, 25kg HEU, 500kg/300km delivery systems), not by banning “extinction-risk weapons.” AGI bans need analogous thresholds: capabilities like autonomous replication, scalable resource acquisition, and systematic deception.
- Bring lawyers in. If this [...]
Outline:
(00:12) TL;DR
(02:07) Why outcome-based AGI bans proposals don't work
(03:52) The luxury of defining the thing ex post
(05:43) Actually defining the thing we want to ban
(08:06) Credible bans depend on bright lines
(08:44) Learning from nuclear treaties
The original text contained 2 footnotes which were omitted from this narration.
---
First published:
September 20th, 2025
Source:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/agBMC6BfCbQ29qABF/the-problem-with-defining-an-agi-ban-by-outcome-a-lawyer-s
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
619 episodes
All episodes
×Welcome to Player FM!
Player FM is scanning the web for high-quality podcasts for you to enjoy right now. It's the best podcast app and works on Android, iPhone, and the web. Signup to sync subscriptions across devices.