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Probe and Discover: Coaching for Impact with Ramzi Marjaba (2/2)
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What does it mean to coach someone? Is that the same or different from being a people manager? Ramzi Marjaba is back to delve deep into the process of coaching. This week in episode 308, we discuss the roles of mentors, managers, coaches, and how their skills might overlap. Ramzi will share the reasons he is passionate about coaching others and the qualities of an effective coach. We also talk about how making tasks look easy can mask the hard work behind them.
Original Recording Date: 12-07-2024
Ramzi Marjaba is a returning guest and the man behind We the Sales Engineers. If you missed the first part of this interview with Ramzi, check out Episode 307.
Topics – Making Things Look Easy and Keeping a Brag File, Defining Coaching through What Coaches Do, The Skills of a Coach, Managers as Coaches, Parting Thoughts and the Future of We the SEs
2:51 – Making Things Look Easy and Keeping a Brag File
* A software developer would practice building software every day. A sales engineer, on the other hand, is not practicing doing demos every day. They might do a dry run before a customer meeting to prepare, but that is likely it.
* Ramzi shares a story of preparing a customer demo to illustrate how salespeople and sales engineers might not truly understand each other’s roles and the work each requires.
* A salesperson scheduled Ramzi to do a “quick and easy” demo to show interoperability with other solutions a customer was using.
* Ramzi met with the customer before the demo happened to make sure he understood the customer’s expectation.
* “I went in. None of their products worked. So, if we’re doing an interop, and their product doesn’t work in the middle of a demo, whose fault is it? The sales team, more specifically, the SE.” – Ramzi Marjaba
* Ramzi did some interoperability testing with the customer, and they decided Ramzi would do a demo just to show how the product works and ignore the interoperability part.
* Ramzi prepared a demo based on the prep done with the customer, and it went great.
* On the way out of the meeting where Ramzi did the demo, the salesperson asked Ramzi why it took so much preparation to do a demo that was just a few clicks.
* Nick references David Zweig’s book Invisibles about highly skilled people who, if they are doing their job, you might not know even exist. Likely this is how workers in IT feel when they’ve put forth large amounts of effort to accomplish a task that seems simple.
* “That’s the big thing. If you’re good at your job, you make things look easy. And one of the things engineers or technical folks in general struggle with is letting people know about the work that they’ve done.” – Ramzi Marjaba
* Ramzi provides the contrast between former colleagues who would work on the hardest problems that came to the team and someone who would close the most tickets due to finding known issues. The person who closed the most tickets would send out e-mails to let people know how many tickets were closed and would also get all the praise.
* Ramzi was speaking with an SE manager recently who suggested keeping a brag file in which you document your accomplishments and the impact they’ve made on your company. This can easily be shared with your manager to demonstrate the work you have done and make a business case for a raise or promotion.
* John likes the emphasis on practice and quantifying the level of effort we put in to make something look simple.
* We can quantify the level of effort in retrospect for a career ...
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Original Recording Date: 12-07-2024
Ramzi Marjaba is a returning guest and the man behind We the Sales Engineers. If you missed the first part of this interview with Ramzi, check out Episode 307.
Topics – Making Things Look Easy and Keeping a Brag File, Defining Coaching through What Coaches Do, The Skills of a Coach, Managers as Coaches, Parting Thoughts and the Future of We the SEs
2:51 – Making Things Look Easy and Keeping a Brag File
* A software developer would practice building software every day. A sales engineer, on the other hand, is not practicing doing demos every day. They might do a dry run before a customer meeting to prepare, but that is likely it.
* Ramzi shares a story of preparing a customer demo to illustrate how salespeople and sales engineers might not truly understand each other’s roles and the work each requires.
* A salesperson scheduled Ramzi to do a “quick and easy” demo to show interoperability with other solutions a customer was using.
* Ramzi met with the customer before the demo happened to make sure he understood the customer’s expectation.
* “I went in. None of their products worked. So, if we’re doing an interop, and their product doesn’t work in the middle of a demo, whose fault is it? The sales team, more specifically, the SE.” – Ramzi Marjaba
* Ramzi did some interoperability testing with the customer, and they decided Ramzi would do a demo just to show how the product works and ignore the interoperability part.
* Ramzi prepared a demo based on the prep done with the customer, and it went great.
* On the way out of the meeting where Ramzi did the demo, the salesperson asked Ramzi why it took so much preparation to do a demo that was just a few clicks.
* Nick references David Zweig’s book Invisibles about highly skilled people who, if they are doing their job, you might not know even exist. Likely this is how workers in IT feel when they’ve put forth large amounts of effort to accomplish a task that seems simple.
* “That’s the big thing. If you’re good at your job, you make things look easy. And one of the things engineers or technical folks in general struggle with is letting people know about the work that they’ve done.” – Ramzi Marjaba
* Ramzi provides the contrast between former colleagues who would work on the hardest problems that came to the team and someone who would close the most tickets due to finding known issues. The person who closed the most tickets would send out e-mails to let people know how many tickets were closed and would also get all the praise.
* Ramzi was speaking with an SE manager recently who suggested keeping a brag file in which you document your accomplishments and the impact they’ve made on your company. This can easily be shared with your manager to demonstrate the work you have done and make a business case for a raise or promotion.
* John likes the emphasis on practice and quantifying the level of effort we put in to make something look simple.
* We can quantify the level of effort in retrospect for a career ...
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