The Dark Side of Empathy: On AI “Soul Gaps”, emotional commons, and the responsibility to develop humane technologies with Michael Ventura

Poets & Thinkers

What if the very technology that promises to make us more efficient is actually creating “soul gaps” – spaces where human understanding and meaning simply cannot be replicated? In this deeply insightful episode of Poets and Thinkers, we explore the future of humanistic leadership with Michael Ventura, founder of SubRosa, author of “Applied Empathy,” and a fascinating polymath who bridges brand strategy, alternative medicine, and human development. From his practice at Esalen Institute to co-founding a pet food company with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend, Michael brings a unique perspective on how empathy serves as the new language of leadership.

Michael takes us on a journey through what empathy really means – distinguishing it from sympathy and compassion – and why it's become critical for leaders navigating increasingly diverse, multi-generational workforces. He shares compelling insights about how AI can replicate the technical aspects of creativity but misses the essential human elements, like where to place the divine spark of light in a Renaissance painting. Through examples ranging from political manipulation to Meta’s disturbing targeting of insecure teenagers, Michael reveals both the light and dark sides of applied empathy.

Throughout our conversation, Michael challenges us to slow down in a world obsessed with speed, arguing that patience – not just efficiency – should be a core leadership skill. He envisions a future where leaders move from having all the answers to asking all the right questions, creating space for diverse perspectives and collective intelligence. And we’ll even get a little teaser for Michael’s upcoming book on “constellation thinking” which promises to revolutionize how we understand purpose in our complex, multi-faceted modern lives.

In this discussion, we explore:

• Why empathy is not about being nice – it's about understanding without conversion
• How AI creates “soul gaps” where human meaning and divine sparks cannot be replicated
• The difference between cognitive empathy used for manipulation versus authentic connection
• Why leaders must transition from answer-givers to question-askers
• How patience becomes a revolutionary skill in our hyperconnected world
• The loss of shared cultural moments and emotional commons in our fragmented media landscape

This episode is an invitation to reclaim the deeply human skills that technology cannot replicate, and to use empathy not as weakness but as a strategic advantage in building more connected, innovative organizations.

Resources Mentioned

• Applied Empathy: The New Language of Leadership by Michael Ventura
• “The Dark Side of Empathy” - Michael’s New York Times op-ed
• “America's Uncontacted Tribes” article by Michael Ventura
• Center for Humane Technology - led by Tristan Harris
• Kismet – pet food company Michael co-founded with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend

Connect with Michael Ventura:

Website:

Send us a text

Get in touch: [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/
Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484
Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd

Chapters

1. Introduction to Michael Ventura (00:00:00)

2. Defining Empathy vs. Sympathy (00:04:23)

3. Empathy as Leadership Language (00:08:43)

4. Connecting Across Tribalism (00:10:23)

5. AI and the Soul Gaps (00:15:14)

6. The Dark Side of Empathy (00:22:42)

7. Cultivating Patience in Leadership (00:29:04)

8. Creating Emotional Commons and Future Work (00:34:43)