Overcoming Barriers: Black Male Engagement in Higher Education with Marcus Langford

SA Voices From the Field

This week on NASPA's SA Voices from the Field Podcastr Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Marcus R. Langford, the Associate Vice Provost for the Center for Learner Diversity and Inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU). Marcus shares his thoughts on leadership, diversity, and balancing a demanding career with family life.

The Path to Leadership and Diversity at OHSU

Marcus R. Langford's journey in higher education began with a personal challenge—an arduous college transition—leading him to become an orientation leader. This pivotal moment guided his career, allowing him to work in various capacities across the country, from Oregon State University to the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash. Currently, at OHSU, Marcus spearheads initiatives to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Throughout this episode, Marcus emphasizes the significance of collaborating with intelligent, talented individuals. He credits his ability to identify patterns, navigate complex systems, and engage effectively with people as critical to his professional evolution from a specialist to a generalist—a valuable skillset for anyone in leadership roles within student affairs.

Doctoral Research: Black Male Engagement and Placemaking

Marcus is pursuing a Doctorate of Education (EdD) with his dissertation titled "Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon." His research shines a light on the engagement and sense of belonging of Black male students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs).

Drawing from personal experiences, Marcus highlights the challenges Black students face in these environments. His findings reveal that while Black male students are actively involved across campus, they often find meaningful engagement in culturally relevant spaces like the National Association For Black Journalists and the Black Cultural Center. Unfortunately, these cultural groups sometimes face institutional barriers, such as restrictive catering policies that hinder the authenticity of cultural events.

The Need for Institutional Support and Recognition

Marcus's research underscores the need for institutions to recognize and support diverse forms of student engagement. Traditional engagement opportunities, such as student government, are sometimes less appealing to Black male students due to microaggressions and dismissive behaviors. Institutions must reconsider how their policies may inhibit students from expressing their authentic selves and engaging fully.

A practical example Marcus discusses involves the challenges cultural groups face when trying to work with external vendors to provide authentic cultural food. Institutional catering policies often prevent these collaborations, leading to unsatisfactory event experiences that can affect student engagement and sense of belonging.

Updating Theories and Practices in Student Affairs

Marcus advocates for a shift away from the overreliance on classical student development theories that may limit students' experiences. He suggests that institutions should expand the scope of what is considered valuable student engagement, integrating culturally relevant activities alongside traditional ones. Additionally, ongoing education for faculty and staff is crucial to understanding the evolving needs of students, which differ significantly from previous generations.

Mentorship and Professional Growth

Mentorship plays a vital role in Marcus's career. Larry Roper, a seasoned professional in student affairs, has been instrumental in guiding Marcus, emphasizing the importance of not needing to be the smartest person in the room and the value of continuous learning. Marcus appreciates the influence of younger professionals in challenging historical practices and pushing for necessary changes within the field.

Balancing Professional and Personal Life

One of the most profound insights Marcus shares is the importance of distinguishing between professional and personal commitments. He stresses that while he likes his job, he loves his family, and it's essential to prioritize personal relationships. This perspective, influenced by his mentor Larry Roper, reminds us that systems are designed to function without individuals, so self-care and personal well-being should not be neglected.

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Inclusive Practices

As Marcus R. Langford continues to lead efforts in diversity and inclusion at OHSU, his insights remind us of the ongoing need for institutions to adapt and support the dynamic needs of their students. By reevaluating policies, expanding engagement opportunities, and providing continuous education for faculty and staff, higher education can create more inclusive and supportive environments for all students.

Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on "Dads with Daughters," and be sure to catch future episodes where we continue to explore the intersections of personal and professional lives in meaningful ways.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I am overjoyed to be joined by Marcus R Langford, who is currently serving as associate vice provost for the center for learner and diversity and inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University or OHSU. In this role, Marcus is responsible for providing leadership and vision for the center to advance OHSU's learner centered diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging goals. This work includes providing educational engagement opportunities for learners, as well as working with institutional partners to envision and achieve a collaborative cohesive approach to the enhanced recruitment and retention of diverse learners. In this role, Marcus is fortunate to work with and provide leadership to a talented team of individuals committed to cultivating relationships, creating educational solutions, and interrogating policies, practices, and procedures in partnership with various institutional partners and constituents to build institutional capacity for transformative change. Prior to his OHSU work, Marcus was at the University of Oregon where he most recently served as dean of students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Prior to U of O, over the span of 20 years in higher ed, he served in several roles with increasing levels of scope and responsibility at a variety of institutional types. Marcus has professional experience in a variety of functional areas, including academic intervention and advising, campus programming, crisis management, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, leadership development, multicultural affairs, orientation and new student programs, student involvement, and veteran student affairs. I also wanna take a moment to pre congratulate Marcus on his future defense of his doctoral dissertation. I'm so excited to welcome Marcus Langford to the show. So good to see you, Marcus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:01:57]: Hey there. How are you? Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: So for our listeners, Marcus and I have known each other for a very long time at this point. The very first time we met, Marcus was working at Oregon State in orientation and retention, and I was earning my master's. So we have been kind of at the same institution on and off a couple of times now. And so I'm so excited for our listeners to get to know you through your expertise and your research and and where you sit now. We always like to open our episodes by asking our guests how you got to your current seat and kind of teeing up from that journey out of orientation. How did you land into an AVP of DEIB space?

Marcus R. Langford [00:02:37]: Glad to see you and talk to you again. Always fun to chop it up with you a little bit, and thank you for, giving me this opportunity. So whenever I talk a little bit about how I got somewhere, for me, I always have to start at the beginning. And so for me, starting at the beginning, you know, ensures that I let folks know that I am a Southerner by birth. That's a big part of who I am and how I see the world and how I approach the world. So I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I spent the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. But even though I spent more time in Cincinnati than in Birmingham, I still would say I'm a Southerner by birth. And so the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm a high school English teacher by training.

Marcus R. Langford [00:03:19]: So my undergraduate degrees are in English Education and African American History. But how I got into the field was kind of typical or classic, and so much as I did not have the greatest transition to college. So much so that about midway through my 1st year, I vividly remember this like it happened yesterday, I called my mom and said, mom, I just don't know if this is for me. I think I want to drop out and come home. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom said, absolutely not. She said, dropping out is not an option. She said, you know, your your dad and I and other folks have invested too much time, energy, and effort into you, and you are more than capable enough to be successful in this endeavor. So she said, do one more thing, join one more club, one more organization.

Marcus R. Langford [00:04:05]: And if that doesn't work, at the end of the year, we can revisit this conversation, but we'll talk about where you will transfer to, not the fact that you're gonna drop out. And so like any good Southern boy, I I did what my mom told me to do. And that one thing that I elected to do was to actually apply to be an orientation leader. And part of the reason why I did that is because even though I had a difficult transition or a rough transition, the one person that I actually was able to make some semblance of a connection with throughout my first the midway through my 1st semester and through my 1st semester was my orientation leader. I still remember her name, Amy Mandler. And so in typical orientation fashion, at the end of my orientation experience, she gave her email, and her phone number and said, if something comes up during the year, give me a call, and I'll see what I can do to help. And so even though I had a, again, a difficult transition, that was the one person who was somewhat of a lifeline for me. And so that one more thing that my mom compelled me to do actually was being an orientation leader.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:08]: But I still tell folks, even though Amy was a really, really great resource to me, I went into that experience with these nefarious purposes in my mind. Because in my mind, I was a black student at a predominantly white institution. And in my mind, I was gonna be the orientation leader that really kind of kept it real. But as you can imagine, for whatever reason, miraculously, I was selected. And as you can imagine, I had a fantastic experience. My experience as an fantastic experience. My experience as an orientation leader connected me to the institution, connected me to faculty, staff, and even other students in ways that I previously had not been connected. And so that really experience really was a pivotal point in my educational experience.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:47]: Not only did it change the trajectory of my educational experience as a student, but it ultimately ended up changing the trajectory of my life. So long story short, I ended up graduating and I set up my high school English teacher. So I taught high school English for a little while, but elected to go back to graduate school to get a master's degree. And I went back to Miami University where I did my undergraduate work, I got a master's degree in higher ed. And at that point, transitioned to higher education where I got my first job in orientation and new student programs at Oregon State University. So I spent about 5, almost 6 years at Oregon State working with orientation and new student programs. So summer orientation visit programs, the 1st year experience class before ultimately, transitioning from there to Rhodes College, which is a small private liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee. I ended up going to Rhodes to help them build a traditional summer orientation program.

Marcus R. Langford [00:06:45]: So at the time, Rhodes was a small school, and they operated on the methodology that a lot of small schools did where they brought everyone to campus about a week or two before classes started. But what they found was that they were experiencing a high degree of summer melt because their students, all of their friends were going to orientation throughout the summer, coming home with schedules, coming home with IDs, coming home with shirts. And when you're a small institution that has a incoming class of a couple of 100, if you end up losing 5, 10, 20 students, that's a pretty big deal. So at Rose, I was hired to build a summer orientation program. So we backed up their fall orientation to a more traditional 2 day summer orientation program. So I spent some time doing that, but then at a small school, as many folks may know, you end up doing everything. And so that's where I started to get some more experience in academic intervention and crisis work and academic advising before ultimately leaving Rhodes to go back to Ohio where I grew up, to spend time working at the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash, which was a regional college of the University of Cincinnati. And for all intents and purposes, I was the chief student affairs for that regional campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:07:57]: And so everything student affairs related at some point kind of rolled up to me, and so that was career services, student government, orientation, multicultural affairs, Hispanic and Latino affairs. And so that's really where the breadth of my experience, started to, expand, a little bit, and was there for about six and a half, maybe 7 years before being recruited to come back to Oregon, to work at the University of Oregon. So I spent 7 years at the University of Oregon as an assistant dean, an associate dean, and then ultimately the dean of student. And that's where we came that's where we came back together. So that's where our paths cross stuck in. Spent 7 years there. Had a really, really good and rich experience there before ultimately making the transition to OHSU, which is where I am right now as the associate vice provost for the Center For Learner Diversity and Inclusion. And so I've end this role in Portland for just about 3 months now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: And when we think about your journey in student affairs, I think you have a rich diversity of geographical experience in the field. We see folks kind of do both. Right? Either that are very anchored to one particular region or folks that kind of you and I both have gone have gone all over the country in kind of service of the profession. So I'd love to hear from you on as you've evolved in the past, present, and future of your career, how has that geographical space made a difference or informed the way that you're practicing in the field?

Marcus R. Langford [00:09:24]: That's a very good question, and I'll actually add another layer to that. And so I think my geographical experience has had an effector, and I also would add a layer of institutional type. And so what I would say is when I look back over the balance of my career, I think the fact that I've worked in multiple states and locations and the fact that I've worked at multiple institution types, that has served to strengthen me as a professional. You know, when I think about, you know, my experience at Oregon State University, which was a large land, sea, sun, space, air grant institute spa space, institution. There are skills and things that I had to think about there relative to connecting with students and the mission of the institution that in some ways did, and in some ways did not transfer to my experience at Rhodes College, which was a private, liberal arts focused, 1200 student institution. And so they were yes, there are oftentimes some through lines that exist when we're talking about working with and supporting college students. But some of the things that my students at Rhodes were dealing with were qualitatively different than, you know, some of the things that my students at Oregon State were dealing with or some of my students who, were at a commuter school, like the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash College. And so again, for me, whether it be institution type or geographical in nature, there were just aspects of that that I had to think about differently.

Marcus R. Langford [00:10:53]: And for me, I think that served, to enhance me as a professional. Again, it it it forced me to think about what I did, how I did it, and why I did it in different contexts. And so I had to be adaptable and make adjustments, based on where I was. It wasn't necessarily the ability, again, to pick up how I do what I do and just drop it part for parcel from one place to another. So yeah. So both living in a variety of different places and working at a number of different institutional types, without a doubt, has served to strengthen me as a professional in my perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:28]: You also went from being a specialist in orientation to moving into a more generalist perspective as your career grew and you kind of moved upward in the hierarchies of student affairs. How did you manage to kind of acquire those skills as you went along that really served you from going, okay, I am a person who is implementing this program to now I'm a person designing this program to now I'm a person who has this program plus a couple of others. And then all of a sudden, you're holding all of the cards for a dean of students area. And at the University of Oregon, it's probably one of the larger dean of students areas I've seen at an r one d one. I think a lot of times, modern deans of students offices are really in the core of conduct and care, and maybe there are some other functions. But the University of Oregon has about half of the entire student affairs portfolio in the office of the dean of students. So talk to us a little bit about how you made that transition from your past experiences to the present of holding 13 departments.

Marcus R. Langford [00:12:26]: You're spot on. The dean of students portfolio at Oregon at the University of Oregon was and is rather large, and it was a lift. I I think one of the things that made that doable is the fact that there were some very, very talented folks there doing some good work. And so I was able to lean into the expertise and the experience of folks that surrounded me. But I'll come back to that because I think that's one of the reasons that I can say that I think I was able to serve in that role relatively well. But going back to your original question, yeah, so, again, I started, you know, as a specialist with within the context of orientation and new student programs. And I actually tell folks that of all functional areas, I actually think orientation is a very, very good one that can prepare you to advance. And one of the reasons why I say that is there are actually a couple of reasons.

Marcus R. Langford [00:13:16]: One is orientation is one of those functional areas where and I know you can say this about others, but you have to know a little bit about everything. And so when you think about kind of understanding the ins and out of an institution, and when you think about being able to communicate and needing to communicate the variety of what an institution has to offer to an incoming student to ensure that they can cultivate a pretty solid foundation in order to be successful, that translated to me as a professional. And so, again, as someone who started as an orientation professional, it was incumbent upon me to know a little bit about pretty much every facet of the institution. And so I think that's actually one of the things that I tell folks all the time that was a huge benefit to me starting out in orientation. The other thing associated with the functional area of orientation that I actually think served me well over the course of my career is this notion of being responsible and in a way needing to manage people, places, and things that aren't necessarily yours. And so again, as an orientation professional, it's imperative that, again, you marshal the troops that you don't necessarily supervise. It's important that you kind of manage and coordinate space that you don't necessarily own. It's important that you manage people in terms of how much time they get or not.

Marcus R. Langford [00:14:42]: Because if everybody wants 5 minutes, if you give 5 minutes to 10 people, 15 people, those 5 minutes actually start to stack up. And so you need to be judicious about whether or not folks can get 5 minutes or not. And so I think those are all things that, although it was coming in a, specialist way, they actually prepared me to be a generalist and as I advanced my career. So those are just some of the things that I think in terms of skills that I got from orientation that actually were truly beneficial to me later. But in terms of transitioning from something that I know a lot about and have a lot of experience to starting to collect and be responsible for a widening portfolio. Yeah. That that was a transition. And I I think part of, for me, what allowed me to do that is that I place a priority on listening.

Marcus R. Langford [00:15:37]: And so as I started to accrue some of these areas that I did not have tangible or concrete experience with, I recognized that it was important for me to listen, to the folks who were doing this work. And then I also recognized, in addition to listening, that it was important for me to invest time, energy, and effort to learn as much as I could about these areas. Now I recognized again that I wasn't necessarily going to be a content area expert. That's what those staff were for, but it was imperative that I had a general sense and a general understanding of the work that they did. And so, again, listening and this notion of being willing and or able to be a lifelong learner are things that allowed me to transition, I think, rather seamlessly into this role of being a generalist as I, continue to advance in my career. And I think one of the last things that I'll say is how did I manage this, and this is the part where I'll come back to u of o. One of the best pieces of advice that I got from a former supervisor who's now a mentor of mine is that she often talked about how one of the things that benefited her was this recognition that she needed to divorce herself from this notion that she had to be the smartest person in the room at all times and that she had to have the answer every time right then. And so when I think about my experience at U of O in managing a rather large portfolio, with a lot of functional areas and quite frankly a lot of things that I didn't have a high level of personal knowledge with.

Marcus R. Langford [00:17:13]: Part of that was leaning into that I don't necessarily have to be the smartest person in the room all the time, and so that was really hiring and surrounding myself with smart and talented people and allowing them to do what they were hired to do. Now I will say, I think one of the things that, you know, again, that allowed me to be successful in that is what I mentioned earlier around learning and asking questions, and leaning into their expertise. But I also think I have the ability to see patterns. I have the ability to understand and navigate systems, and I think I also have the ability to work with people. And so for me, those were 3 of the things that allowed me to transition from a specialist to a generalist, and I think be relatively successful in that transition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:12]: Listening systems and people, those are Marcus's magic 3 for achieving that AVP title. Now, Marcus, you're you're doing all of this while you also had decided to become a PhD student or doctoral student. And I remember sitting with you as you were starting your journey, and I I passed you a post it that said, hashtag doctor Langford 2025 or sooner. And I believe we are on track for that. And so I wanna say huge congratulations to you for getting that first full one through 5 submitted for review. That is an amazing step. I remember the feeling for myself, all of a sudden, a level of guilt just kind of lifted off my shoulders that all of a sudden the free time I would take for myself was not weighted that I wasn't writing or reading at the same time. But I'm I'm really excited to learn more about your research and your findings because I think it fits well with our past, present, and future theme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:03]: And also really aligns with your journey and your story as a person who was seeking to find belonging in higher education at the start. So why don't you tell us the, at least, tentative title for your dissertation?

Marcus R. Langford [00:19:15]: Well, thank you. Again, I do remember that conversation, and I do remember that post that I just moved into believe it or not, I actually still have it. I just moved into a new office, but I have a bunch of things that folks have given me over the time. And so since I'm still in the new offices and I just moved from Eugene to Portland, it's in a box in my garage with the rest of my office stuff, but I actually do still have that posted in a couple of other things that folks have given me. Yeah. So my doctoral work. So I am in the process of getting a doctorate of education, so an EdD, and the title of my study is Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon. And so I would say, generally speaking, I've always been intrigued by the experiences of Black male students at predominantly white institutions.

Marcus R. Langford [00:20:04]: And I'm very clear in a couple of places in my dissertation of practice that my interest in this is deeply rooted in my own experience as a Black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so my undergraduate and graduate institution, fantastic school in the Midwest when I was there, about 16,000 permanent students, but the institution exists in a town that had, at the time when I was there, about 9,000 permanent residents. When I was there, the number of black students so when you look at 16,000 students, the number of black students that we had never exceeded 500, and I think that's probably being even that is a little bit on the high side. And so, again, I had these material experiences around what it means to be a black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so first and foremost, again, I've always been interested in thinking about the experiences of those folks. And further, I would also say that while I've worked at a number of institutions, I've also worked for a number of predominantly white institutions. And part of my rationale in doing that is because I decided that it was really important for me over the course of my career to do what I can to be for other folks what someone was to me. And so it wasn't an accident when I was looking for jobs, you know, that I ended up settling at Oregon State for a little while.

Marcus R. Langford [00:21:28]: It wasn't an accident that I ended up back at the University of Oregon. It wasn't an accident that even when I went to a small school experience, it was Rose College, which is, even though it was only 1200 students, overwhelmingly white, even though it exists within Memphis, Tennessee, which is a relatively diverse city. And so for me, again, thinking about the experiences of those folks is something that has always been important to me. A little bit more about the the the study. So one of the things that I've, been much very much interested in is this notion of blackmail engagement at predominantly white institutions. And so I talk a little bit about this over the course of my study, but I've always been interested in engagement. So when we think about involvement and engagement within the context of institutions, we clearly know that being involved and being engaged makes a material difference. And so students who are involved, engaged, generally speaking, they tend to graduate at higher rates.

Marcus R. Langford [00:22:26]: They tend to have higher grades. They tend to have a higher level of satisfaction with their collegiate experience. So involvement and engagement matters. But one of the things that I talk about in my literature review is that there has been a fair amount of critique when we think about what involvement and engagement means and looks like. And so when we think about some of the foundational studies that we build our knowledge in higher education on, to put it plainly, that foundational knowledge, generally speaking, is built by white men who've studied younger white men. And while there's not inherently anything wrong with that, I think what these critiques have shown is that as we've built our knowledge on this, that has served to ensure that we don't necessarily recognize and understand the full range of what these things can and should be, and we don't recognize the full range of the experiences that some folks have. And so what even prompted this study was that I would have conversations with some of my colleagues and some executive level administrators, and questions would be asked, why aren't Black male students engaged on campus? Or why aren't Black male students taking advantage of some of these same opportunities that other folks are? Why aren't Black male students kind of involved in student government? Or why aren't Black male students, you know, kind of joining our historically white fraternities? Or things like that. And what I thought then, and what was born out of my study is that while well meaning, that type of perspective flattens the range of ways that black males choose to be involved and engaged on their campuses, and it also ultimately serves to release the institution from their inherent responsibility to be mindful of why folks are making some of the decisions that they're making about where they choose to invest their time, energy, and effort.

Marcus R. Langford [00:24:28]: And so actually what I found is that black male students were involved across, the landscape of the institution, but there are choices that they made about where to invest the majority of their time. And so things like culturally relevant experiences was very important. And so, you know, they talked a lot about things like the National Association For Black Journalists. They talked a lot about the Black Male Alliance. They talked a lot about the Multicultural Center. They talked a lot about the Black Cultural Center. But in addition to those things, we also did have students who did research. We had students who were in IFC fraternities.

Marcus R. Langford [00:25:08]: And so they did do a range of these things. But, again, I think it was really being mindful of the fact that they were making some particular choices based on how they would experience something. And that's actually one of the things that I wanted to bring to the forefront through this study. So I conducted 3 focus groups and a couple of follow-up interviews. And, again, I found that students are engaged across the landscape of the institution. But what they also were looking for was the institution to recognize that through the application of policies, practices, and procedures, that there were ways that the institution could better support the engagement and placemaking, you know, of these students. And so some of the things, again, that institutions don't think about, we talk about policies, practices, and procedures. A very trite well, it sounds like a trite example, but it's really meaningful is if you go to any PWI, one of the things that you typically will find is this back and forth with cultural groups and campus catering.

Marcus R. Langford [00:26:08]: So what will happen and, again, it sounds trite, but walk with me. So what will happen is student groups, cultural groups, will often want to work with outside vendors around cultural food, but then you often have institutional catering and food services saying, well, we can do that. And students will say, well, yeah, you can, but, like, the food is not gonna be that great it's not gonna be that great or authentic or representative or correct or, you know, we wanna support this business in the community, and the waiver will be denied. Catering will do it. And in many instances, the food is not gonna be good because it's not prepared by someone of the culture, and the event will happen, but, like, students are like, well, this food really wasn't that great. And so, again, as an institution, those are the types of things that we don't think about. Typically, some of our institution folks within our institutions don't think about those as, quote, unquote, big deals, but those are the types of experiences that when taken in total really start to create issues where students, again, around have the ability to be engaged and and kind of make place for themselves. Another thing that came up was their decision making around how they would experience an organization or an opportunity.

Marcus R. Langford [00:27:23]: So going back to this notion of, well, why aren't students in student gov these students joining student government, or why aren't these students joining what we would define as these classical engagement opportunities? The students would then say, well, why do I wanna subject myself to an experience where I know I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions on a daily basis? Like, why do I wanna join this organization where I know folks are gonna say off the wall things to me? Why do I wanna join this organization where when I joined the concert board and I say, we want to bring this person, I'm automatically gonna get shot down because that's not the type of concert or music, you know, that folks want to do. And so students, again, are making decisions about where to invest their time, energy, and effort about how they will experience things. And I think that's another piece that sometimes folks in institutions don't really think about. They don't think about how students will experience these opportunities. And in not thinking about that, it releases them from, again, their inherent obligation to ask some pretty difficult questions of themselves of how are we inhibiting, you know, our students from being their true and full selves through the application of our policies, but then also not addressing what students are telling us about some of the problematic things that they experience. So, yeah, so that's a little bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: It's a good reminder that our institutions are always microcosms of the things that are happening in larger society, especially because institutions are designed originally with specific intent on who they were serving, and those vestiges have definitely carried through the present day in in student affairs. And one of the things I most appreciate about the research that you're doing now is I think our master's programs for a good couple of decades now have done a good job of acknowledging who student development theory was written by and for. But it stops there, and it doesn't go the next step of saying, okay, well, now where are we where are we conducting research? Who are the people that are participating in our research? And how are we making sure that those perspectives are more well rounded. And so I appreciate that your study is filling a gap in the literature, but how can we change our systems to be more inclusive of the traditionally aged black male experience? That's not out there as boldly as it should be, especially given where we are in time. And there's also then an opportunity, I think, I'm I'm hearing, like, future publication for you on on how this will get out there. And I appreciate the framing too of saying, you know, the institution is not absolved of its responsibility. And we both have a mentor who has said in the past, you know, institutions are just buildings and people. And so because of that, that means we are empowered to change those institutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: Given that and given your research, can you give us maybe 1 or 2 recommendations for practice?

Marcus R. Langford [00:30:08]: Great question. So one, I think I would say it's important that we adequately invest in these organizations and these structures that we design. And so, again, I'll lean into my study participants. And so one of the things that they talked about was, so there is a black cultural center, and there is a multicultural center. But oftentimes, what happens is institutions will have or build these things to say, look, we have this, but what the students talked about is, well, I appreciate that we have this thing, but can we have a conversation about how it's on the edge of campus? Like, what does that mean? Can we have a conversation about how you built this building and there's only one person, you know, who's assigned to manage this building? So can that person get some help? They talked about things like having cultural organizations, but the rules under which they have to follow through student government and all these other things are often very, very difficult because of their relative size. And so, again, I I think one recommendation is to really think about whether or not we as institutions are adequately investing, whether that be human capital or fiscal capital, in these organizations and entities that are designed to support these folks. So I think that's one thing. I think another, recommendation is that I think it's really important to have some sense of ongoing, you know, kind of education and or training for faculty and staff.

Marcus R. Langford [00:31:46]: One of the things that I spent a lot of time talking about in my role as the dean of students is trying to help faculty and staff and administrators, I'll just say administrators, helping administrators and the people who comprise institutions, helping them to understand and reconcile that who you were as a student and the student experience is qualitatively different than who students are right now and what the student experience is right now. So again, one recommendation is some, you know, training or development for these folks to help them understand, again, that who students are and what the student experience is right now is qualitatively different than who they were as students. And so it's really important that we think about whether or not the folks who run these institutions have a keen and clear understanding of what student needs are today. And so some of that can be accomplished through training and development. And then I think the last thing that I would say is so Sean Harper talks about culturally relevant engagement practices. And so, again, I think part of this is ensuring that the experiences and the opportunities that we offer to students are culturally relevant and accessible. And so, again, I think oftentimes we have a canon in terms of, like, what acceptable or good experiences and opportunities are, and so I'm an English major, and so I think it's part of what our responsibility is is to expand the canon of what we see as good and acceptable. And so again, there are many ways that, you know, black male students were and are engaged on campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:33:30]: And so some of that is around spending time with folks playing Madden, or some of that is, you know, being connected to each other off campus. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as institutions to recognize the inherent value, those types of things as well, and say and not necessarily get to this point of saying that, well, those are automatically less than joining student government, or that's automatically less than joining a fraternity, or whatever it is that we do. So, yeah, so I I I think those are a couple of things that in my mind were good pieces to consider, in terms of future practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Marcus, I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the season. So I have 3 questions for you, 1 each on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're gonna start in the past, and I'd like to know from you, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of?

Marcus R. Langford [00:34:25]: Well, I'll actually lean into what we were just talking about. I think one aspect of our past that I think would help us is loosening our overreliance on some of our classic student development theory. So I think student development theory is important. It can be instructive. But what I've also found, and I even remember my experience as a newer professional, I think sometimes unintentionally, what that allows us to do is to put students in boxes, or it creates a scenario where, yeah, we create kind of parameters that are too restrictive for how we think and why we do what we do. And so one of my things about the past is I think it would be helpful if we weren't necessarily so over reliant on some of our classic student affairs theory. That's probably a bit of, did he really say that? But that's what I think. I'm

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:17]: with you on that one, cosigning that opinion. On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Marcus R. Langford [00:35:24]: I think one of the things that from my perspective is happening that some people might not see it as a net benefit, but I think we have some younger professionals who are leading the forcing, encouraging, challenging us as a profession to ask some hard yet necessary questions about who we are, why we do what we do, and how we do what we do. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoy the work that I do. I thoroughly enjoyed the work that I did as a dean of students, but I think one of the things that I often say it was, I just tend to be one of those folks who don't say that I love my job. I like it a lot. I have a great affinity for it, but I tend to be a person who I reserve my love for things that can love me back in a tangible and concrete way. So I like my job a lot. I have a high affinity for my job, but I love my wife and I love my kids. And so I think presently, there are younger professionals who are having that mentality, and I think that's really forcing us as an institution to reckon with our reliance on, I'll say it, trying to pay people with and through passion.

Marcus R. Langford [00:36:34]: Like, passion doesn't pay the bills, to be clear. And so I think presently, yeah, there are newer professionals who are asking some questions that are really, really forcing us as a field to contend with some of our historical practices that probably needed to be reconciled with a long time ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: I just wanna say for posterity, I quote you on that constantly. I actually said it yesterday to somebody who was really putting in like a 90 to a 100 hour work week. Actually, not even in student affairs. It was in a private industry field. And he said, hey, you know what? I have a friend who has told me a long time ago, I like your job a lot, but don't love your job because your job will never love you back. And that is something that I've taken from your wisdom years years ago, and I I keep that with me. So thank you for that one. And now it'll be out for the pod audience as well.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:20]: Really quickly, to be clear, you know, I have leaned into that, but that's something that I got from a mentor of mine many, many years ago, Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Oh, I'm sorry. Of course. It's Larry Roper.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:30]: Of of course. That's a Larry Roper thing. Again, I I think the the important thing is, again, is this is all about systems. And so that's not to say that a system or an institution doesn't necessarily appreciate you or value you, but I think it's important to understand that there's a reality that the way that Larry put it, we were sitting in the library, and he said, Marcus, what you need to realize is if you and I walk out of this library and fall off the face of the earth tomorrow, the lights will still come on and students will still show up. And part of that is because by nature, systems are designed to persist. And he said that's not to say that we don't do good work, because we do. That's not to say that we wouldn't be missed, because in many ways, we would. But systems by design recalibrate to this point of homeostasis.

Marcus R. Langford [00:38:17]: And so as a result, it's important that you are mindful and intentional to do what you can to take care of yourself because there's no guarantee that a system will. And so, you know, that's just something that I was very, very fortunate to get early on in my career, and it has been instructive for me over my 25 plus years career in this field. And that doesn't mean that I don't work hard. To be clear, you can ask my wife and she can cosign this. That doesn't mean that I haven't failed at that because in my mind, while I think I've done a very good job of maintaining balance in conversations with my wife and even with my kids, I know that there have been times that I've fallen short of that. That said, I think it's something that I've tried to consistently come back to, and I think that trying to get back to it has benefited me greatly over the course of my time in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: I don't know anyone who doesn't love a good Larry Roperism. And if you'd like to learn more from him directly, he was featured on season 1 of our podcast when Corliss was hosting the show. So if you wanna go back and take a listen, I just always appreciate hearing from him. And Marcus, our our final question here on the future is, in an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Marcus R. Langford [00:39:30]: I think I would say that it's incumbent upon us to ensure that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who students are now and the needs of students right now. You know, again, we do ourselves a disservice when we frame and operationalize things based on who we were as students and, you know, what brought us joy as students. Yes. I I I think those things can, to a certain extent, inform what you do. And I'll say something here, and it may not be popular. But if you came into the field to replicate your experience for other folks, I would challenge you to think about that. It's not about replicating your experience. It's about creating, supporting, and sustaining conditions so that people can have a rich and meaningful experience, whatever that may mean and look like for them.

Marcus R. Langford [00:40:27]: So for me, again, I think looking ahead into the future, it's important that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who who our students are now and what their needs are now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. There's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The deadline for the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is coming up soon. The regular registration deadline closes on November 11, 2024. The Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11, 2024. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:23]: If you are an individual that wants to connect and learn with other higher education professionals to advance student leadership on your own campuses, then the Leadership Educators Institute is the perfect place for you to go. You'll have the opportunity to explore proven leadership theories and innovative curricula that will help you to develop outstanding leaders on your campus. Just a reminder, the regular registration closes on November 11th, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is happening December 10th through December 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. At this conference, you'll have an opportunity to come together with a diverse group of professional women to drive collective development, drive collective development, home leadership skills, share experiences about how to continue to provide adequate support for all students in a turbulent national landscape and create new personal networks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:43]: Don't miss out on the learning and experiences offered at this special event. Find out more on the NASPO website. Also coming up on November 18th, there is a member briefing on translating data into practice, 20 24 NASPA top issues, findings and practical applications on campus. The NASPA 20 24 top issues results provide a snapshot of what senior leaders view as key priorities on campuses this year. This member briefing will provide you with an opportunity to get an overview of the top ranked issues, including centering the student voice, expanding access to mental health and well-being supports, facilitating cross campus collaboration, and more. This on top of examining how these trends shape student support services. A key portion of the presentation will highlight the prevalence of issues related to health, safety, and well-being and holistic student support efforts on campus and how institutions are leveraging NASPA's extensive resources and frameworks to strengthen their response to these issues. We hope you can join us for this session on translating NASPA's research findings into actionable strategies to support student success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:56]: This is a free briefing that you need to log in to the learning portal atnaspa.org or go to learning.naspa.org directly to find this member briefing. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:30]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:35]: Chris, we always appreciate you informing us on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. And, Marcus, we are now at our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to do this?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:50]: Let's do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:50]: it. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:56]: Let's get this party started.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:00]: A marine biologist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:05]: Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:06]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:08]: I'll say the green book. I can't remember the title of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: We all know the green book. The student service Larry Roper helped write this one.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:15]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Foundational information.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:18]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:21]: I just started watching Operation Lioness and Deceptively Good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:25]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:28]: A Questlove Supreme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:33]: Personal, I always have to give a shout out to my family. My wife, Mercedes, who loves me in spite of myself. And I also will just wanna give a shout out to the fantastic people that I spent some time working with at Oregon State Oregon State, at the University of Oregon, one of which is Chris Winter. Chris Winter is the person who recruited me to come back to Oregon, and I just thank the world of her.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:01]: And I'll second, cosign that shout out to Kris. She's somebody who I also have been very grateful to call a mentor in my career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Alright, Marcus. We have reached the end of the road for our episode today, and it's been wonderful to hear about your research and your journey. If anyone would like to connect with you after the episode airs, how can they find you?

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:11]: LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram are all Marcus r Linkford.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:16]: Marcus, again, so lovely to reconnect with you, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:21]: Thank you, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Good seeing you and catching up today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:30]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:08]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.