Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: May 1, 2025: Interview with Barbara Deane and Effenus Henderson, Co-Founders, ISDI and the Northwest Diversity Learning Series (NWDLS)

Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams

On this episode of Podcasts with Dr. Kirk Adams, Kirk sits down with ISDI co-founders Barbara Deane and Effenus Henderson to explore how the Institute for Sustainable Diversity & Inclusion is helping organizations move “from better arguments to better outcomes.” The trio trace their shared history on Washington State's Governor's Committee on Disability Issues and Employment, then dive into the origins of the Northwest Diversity Learning Series, why 2025's sessions are built around the Aspen Institute's Better Arguments Framework, and how ISO 30415, the Global DEI Benchmarks and intercultural-competence research shape ISDI's evidence-based approach. Listeners will hear candid stories of corporate triumphs and HR “sticky situations,” learn how sponsors co-design each year's curriculum, and discover practical ways to tackle today's backlash against DEI while keeping accessibility and systemic equity front-and-center. Whether you're an HR leader seeking new tools, a manager craving civil discourse, or a changemaker looking for a community of practice, this conversation offers both inspiration and a clear on-ramp to the 2025 NWDLS workshops. Tune in, take notes, and join the movement toward sustainable inclusion. TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 1 00:09

Music. Welcome to podcasts by Dr Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Dr Kirk Adams,

Speaker 2 00:37

welcome everybody to the cleverly titled podcasts by Dr Kirk Adams, and that is me. I am Dr Kirk Adams, speaking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And today I have two amazing guests, Barbara Dean and Ethan is Henderson. I'm going to tell you how we all got connected in a minute, and then ask them about their incredible journeys. Some years ago, when I was in the role of president and CEO of the satellite House for the Blind, before moving to New York and assuming that same role at American Foundation for the Blind, I was contacted by the transition team for Governor Jay Inslee when he was first elected and asked to serve on his transition team, and shortly thereafter, once he was installed as our governor, asked to join the Governor's Committee on disability issues and employment. And I don't remember FNS if it was the transition team or the Governor's Committee or the Governor's Committee, okay, but you and I spent a lot of time together, yes, and a lot of meetings, and I took a lot of notes whenever you talked, because you had a very deep knowledge about disability inclusion and Federal, State and local policies and the history of diversity, equity, inclusion, and I learned so much from you. And then, of course, in 2016 my wife and I relocated to New York City, and then Washington, DC, as I had the privilege and honor of leading the American Foundation for the Blind Helen Keller's organization through through a transition and a restructuring. And then when I had accomplished what I set out to accomplish, there, I returned home to our cozy little house here in Les, and I decided that I was ready to not lead an organization of that size and scope again. And I love nonprofits. I love nonprofit boards, but I was ready not to report to a nonprofit board for a while, so I decided to strike out on my own and just look for, I say, fun, innovative, high impact projects that would accelerate inclusion of people with disabilities and to work with people I really like. So that's what I'm doing now, and as I followed a blueprint that I discovered on how to launch a consulting business that said, reactivate your network and reach out to people that you trust, admire and respect, tell them what you're doing. So that's when I reached out to effin us on LinkedIn, and said, Remember me from the Governor's Committee. I'm back, and I'm looking for fun, innovative, high impact projects. And he introduced me to Barbara Dean, and Barbara, I think you have, might have got me my first paid training opportunity with Delta Dental of Washington. And I had a chance to talk to all of their HR professionals across their network about disability inclusion on a virtual Zoom meeting. And they asked me how much I would charge. I didn't really know what to say, so I said something, and they paid that was, that was the start of my consulting practice. So I think I have you you to thank Barbara for getting that ball rolling. That sounds good. Yeah. Fast forward a year and a half or so, and fell, fell into deeper conversation about Barbara and FNS, and learned about the Institute for Sustainable diversity and inclusion, which we all fondly call is di and the amazing history of the nonprofit is the place it has held in Our community, not only in Seattle, but nationally, the amazing board members and their their depth and breadth of knowledge and experience, and although I swore I would never join another board again, I have happily and graciously and with great gratitude. Um. Been elected to serve on the board of the Institute for Sustainable diversity inclusion is di and we are really in the right place at the right time, our community, our country, our society, needs organizations and expertise and leaders that we can rally around and catalyze as we pursue our quest for social justice and fairness and equity. And is di has a lot of experience and history in that space. So we are boldly proclaiming we are here, and we want you to join us and organize and catalyze and learn, and we do have a series of learning opportunities coming up that we'll talk about later. But for now, I would love to just get a taste for from you, Barbara and effin us about your journeys in this space. You are both social justice warriors, and you've done all every time we talk you, something new comes up that you've done a group, you've been involved with a committee, you've been on a some vital foundational documents you've crafted. So I think Barbara, if you, if you would give us the tour,

06:27

tour of your life,

Speaker 2 06:32

and what, what brought you to this point with, with being a leader, at at ISD, and really being having such clarity that is di is such a vital resource

06:43

for our community. Sure,

Speaker 3 06:45

you know the way that you described our connection, where I connected you with Delta Dental for your first consulting gig. So those are the kinds of connections I've been making since about 1988 so in 1988 my husband and business partner and I launched a newsletter, one of the first newsletters in the country on workforce diversity, and it the first The first name was training and culture newsletter. That didn't inspire anybody very much. But about three years in, we changed the name to cultural diversity at work, and it just took off. And also, there was just a, you know, there was, there was something happening in the country with organizations realizing that the workforce was, was just becoming much more diverse, and they needed they needed help. They needed information. They needed guidance on how to be effective with this, this workforce. So I started my career in this space, although it's hard, you know, it's hard to pinpoint the starting of a career, because careers develop over time. And that's also another little, little thing I have in my background is that I've been a career development advisor and coach so and I've developed and taught career planning courses. So I'm going to go way, way, way back, because I think this, I think it's fundamental what happens to you in your growing up years. And so my parents were from New England, moved to Ohio, and they basically were were in a cross cultural experience, because life and culture in New England and Massachusetts was very different from Northwestern Ohio. And my father used to say that that the personalities of the people in Ohio were about as flat as the land. And that was just his way of describing difference, right? Because he had been raised in Massachusetts, of course, where there are mountains and hills and valleys and and he just found, you know, that people were different in Ohio. And this is this is true all across our country. So I had my experience in my own family of difference, and then I was introduced to cultural differences by my parents with the National Geographic magazine. So that magazine coming into our home, and in those days, we didn't have television, so magazines were, were, you know, they were a vehicle, a window into the larger world. And I became very, very interested in all the people that were in the National Geographic Magazine. Mean, so you know, this is, this is how you get started on a on a career track. And so as I went to school, I just began asking questions about cultural differences. I remember at Ohio State University I was, I was in a class on organizational communication, and the young, ta, very smart guy, I said, How do you know these models and these theories work in in an organization in Mexico, for example? And he couldn't answer the question. And so I just kept asking those kinds of questions. I had just been sensitized to cultural differences, and it made me ask different kinds of questions. So when I got to the University of Washington, and I was a TA in as a teaching intercult interpersonal communication. I asked my advisors, Gary D'Angelo for one, Jon Stewart for the other. I said, you know, you're teaching a a type of communication, a style of communication, but it's really a white middle class style. Do Are you? Are you aware that you're doing that? Well, they had no awareness whatsoever. And so I designed this exercise in my class. Scared my advisors after death, but I designed this exercise about how white people talk. And I asked my my class, which was 30% people of color, international students, I asked them to help me, help us understand that these differences in communication. And so they agreed to go on videotape, and they talked about their experience of communicating with white people in the United States, particularly, you know, often white middle class people, and we use that as an exercise to learn about communication and to learn that about learn that we had been we had been taught a style of communicating, and that style was connected to our our economic level, it was connected to our racial and cultural makeup. It was connected to gender. There were just all kinds of connections. And so I just, you know, I just began asking the question, how, how would a cultural lens inform this exercise from a DI in a different way? And so, so, you know, that takes me to about 1988 when I got pulled into a a training effort at the University of Washington. There had been a racial incident in the dental school, and the dean of the dental school and the staff training development person agreed that there should be an innovation intervention and there should be education. And so I became one of the trainers in that effort to try and help people understand why, why making fun of black people wasn't necessarily a, you know, a respectful idea and and as I watched this whole project evolve and develop, I just had all kinds of questions, how do you know this intervention is going to work? How do you know people respond to this kind of thing? And I I just began asking questions, and one day on the bus, I was sitting there and saying, You know what? I bet I'm not the only person with these questions. I bet there are people all over the world that have these questions. What if we did a newsletter about this kind of and that's how the newsletter got started. That was the, you know, the initial push for it, and, and we began publishing in 1988 and then I began, you know, living my life on the telephone, because in an email at that time, or, or zoom, and living my life on the telephone answering people's questions. You know, what? What does, what does diversity mean? Why are, why are we doing this? What? What? What benefit does it have to our organization and and so as people called me with their questions, every question was an article. And so we began publishing in 1988 began publishing about diversity in the workforce, what that meant, and so I spent 10 years doing that, and then in 1998 a colleague of mine decided to form the Northwest Diversity Learning Series with some key Companies and organizations here in the greater Seattle area, and then this became a a community. I always called it, and it's a it's an employee, it's an employer venture on leveraging, leveraging diversity, because all the employers wanted to understand this. Thing, how it affected them, and so we joined together, and we started teaching ourselves, and that's how the Northwest Diversity Learning Series got

Speaker 2 15:07

started, and it still continues to this day,

Speaker 3 15:11

continues to this day, 27 years. Good for you,

15:16

and that's an us,

Speaker 4 15:19

yes. Well, let me just start by saying that I've originally from North Carolina, grew up on a tobacco farm with my siblings, all 11 of them, eight, eight brothers and three sisters, and in a household where at the age of 13, my mom died from lupus, and so we had to help carry out. My father kept us together. So it was a story about survival, resilience and kind of looking forward in terms of our life stories. Mike,

15:53

where were you? Where were you in the birth order,

15:54

number five. Number five,

Speaker 4 15:57

I was I was in the middle. So about that time, you know, some of the things that teenagers would do, like play basketball and, you know, do those kinds of things, I was not able to do that, because we had kind of the dual role of, kind of the the elder sibling, right? So you had to help out, because the older ones had left a home and so forth. And so I went on to college, and during my couple of years, during the summers, I worked, this is where I got exposed to people impacted by disability. Disabilities I worked for in the summer at a program at

16:38

o'bara Training Center, which was a

Speaker 4 16:41

residential facility for kids with learning disabilities and so forth, and so it was kind of it was my first experience and exposure to that. I went on and graduated college in North Carolina, North Carolina, Central University. I met my wife there, and we got married, and I wasn't out looking when I was a senior in college, because I was, unfortunately, one of the ones with a very low draft lottery number. So I assumed that I would get drafted upon graduation, and as luck would have it, the the draft was ended the week I graduate, and so I and I'd already gone and taken the physical, and was prepared to go into the service, but I didn't want to go, because of all that was going on during that time, but I knew that I I would have to, so I went and ventured and out, and I went back home and worked with my dad for a couple of years in terms of helping to support the family, and Helen and I got married, I started a job in in North Carolina as a resource research assistance for a community action agency, Executive Director and and that's where I started to get really a little bit more indoctrinated into social justice, equity, diversity. That was a diversity at the time, was more social justice and civil rights and so forth, and community action, things to do, to engage with the communities so forth. And I, someone saw me and said, I think you could do this regional job for an organization. It was called the Nusa river regional development planning agency, and they were creating a new program for assistance with the senior citizens and so forth. They said you'd be a natural to help, help out, shape this group up and get them going. And so I think I probably did a job so well that they didn't like the fact at that time, it was more of an economic development. Maybe we're moving too fast with that. So I left that, but I remember it exposed me to working with people older and needing different kinds of care and so forth, so in terms of generational that helped me kind of get that type of perspective. Someone there, a friend of mine, saw me and said, there's a job for a personnel rep at warehouse or company and you you might be perfect for the role that they're looking for. They were looking for like a entry level personnel rep to do a lot of recruiting and so forth in North Carolina. In North Carolina, okay, so I applied, and was off, offered the job on the spot, and I worked in Plymouth, North Carolina, very small rural community, and one of the things that I learned while I worked there as a representative was perceptions that appearances and so forth. And I recall having a friend of mine come to visit me. He happened to be a local reporter for television station. And and he drove up in his car with all of the signage on the side of the car. And I didn't realize that he did that in terms of what he came in, but I went into my office and shut the door and all panic. It started to happen in in the office, because people didn't know exactly what I was doing, and they were still very sensitive about racial issues, because the plant itself had one side of it was heavily populated by African Americans, and the other side was white. One was the pulp paper mill, which was the higher paying jobs, and the sawmill, the lumber mill and Timberlands, was the side where more of the African American employees. So it started to give me a sense of social justice, and why, why were some people on one side and the other So, and there wasn't an agreement with the government that, that, you know, they changed that, you know, there was a conciliation agreement of sorts. And so I was brought in to help with that whole transition and that process as well. And then from there, I started to do more college recruiting. I i recall that in a meeting I was at, one of the vice presidents came down to visit and was talking about all of the things that the company was doing to support affirmative action at that time, and so in equal employment opportunity, and they he was just talking about how, how well they felt about what they were doing. And I think I remember raising my hands, excuse me, but I don't happen to see any of these people you're talking about? Can you illuminate on some of whom these people are? Because, quite frankly, I haven't seen them, and I'd like to know, and it stumbled him, because he couldn't come up with an answer, right? But two weeks later, I got offered a job to come to Seattle, and so I came to Seattle as the college relations and recruiting manager, where I over saw the company's college relations program and summer internship programs for the entire company and all of its operations and so forth for a couple of years. And I wanted to then shift into more of a generalist role, because that was a specialty role. And so I was recruited back to New Jersey for warehousing to head up our regional sales office Human Resource Function. So I worked there. And then several years later, I got promoted back to Seattle as the overall HR director for that division and so forth. And from there, I moved into an international role where I was the international HR director, and that was during the early 80s, and I attribute a lot of the growth in the understanding about diversity, to a conversation I had with a person by the name of Louis Briggs. And I still am in contact and work with him on issues today. Louis Griggs is out. Was out of the San Francisco area. He and his wife, Lenny Copeland, had had wanted to produce a series on going international. In fact, they had, had written and done that. And he was marketing this cassette series on, you know, intercultural, cross cultural, going international types of activities. And so I was saying, gee, there's some similarities in terms of civil rights and affirmative action and so forth. And so we got, I say, You should do a series like that, but more specifically focused on diversity issues. And so he went back, and we actually helped us to fund the series on valuing diversity, which was kind of one of the first video series, things of this nature, which got sold to a number of major corporations. And I think that's when that whole transition from affirmative action and compliance related work in this area started to blossom and so so so fast forward, back until the late 1990s i i was in the international role, and I moved we went through a process of what we call organization redesign, and I was on a redesign team for the HR function. And during that time, we created three basic categories within HR, one around shared services, where a lot of the transactional work was being centralized because of the emergent technology that was coming on board with PeopleSoft and systems like that, and the strategic partners, where we elevated. The role of HR professionals in the business to become strategic partners with their businesses. And then Centers of Expertise. We had several Centers of Expertise, like learning and development, training and education, recruiting, diversity and so forth. And so I was tapped to be the head of the the recruiting, staffing and Diversity Center of expertise and with the staff and so forth. So we worked there, and then as diversity became even more of a priority for the company, they decided that they wanted to and I lobbied for the creation of a Chief Diversity Officer role. And I remember my boss at the time saying, oh, that's kind of a laughable idea. What's that all about? We don't know what what that is, and it was kind of the infant stages of the function and the role. And Barbara will know two people, Fred Miller and Judith Katz, were the consultants that we had brought in to help work with the leadership team to do that, but since that time, and actually they decided to do it, we we created what we call a framework that's in terms of the pillars of action that we would take to to expedite the work In diversity, equity, inclusion, and how it fits Weyerhaeuser, and we did that, but one of the things we learned from that we didn't engage leadership in the way that we felt we should. And so we went back around and talked to leaders and had them do do more work, and we were probably one of the first companies to have a diversity as a part of the criteria for management incentive bonus programs based on, you know, achieving certain results in terms of workforce representation change in areas where they were substantially underutilized in their businesses and so forth. So we, we were the first to kind of do that kind of effort. So I worked in that role up until my retirement in 2013 that's when Barbara twisted my hand and said, Let's, let's form the Institute for Sustainable diversity and inclusion.

Speaker 2 27:16

So the Northwest Diversity Learning Series came for the formation of Disney, it

Speaker 4 27:21

did. It absolutely did. Yeah, Barbara had done that. And the discussion we'd had it had Barbara had moved it over to Bill hertan, who managed it for a few years, and then it moved from there to archbrite. At the time Barbara, I think it was the employers, Employers Association of Washington. Is that right? That's correct, yes. And so the question that Barbara and I grappled with, is this a profit making entity that we're going to create, or is it a nonprofit? And we both agreed we thought a nonprofit fit better, and so we went through the process of incorporating and founding the organization, and that's what we've been doing since that time. The other thing that I do, just as an aside, I am also and it's a fairly significant commitment, is that I am the CEO of my own consulting practice. Hinder works which I do, consulting work. My principal sector is the architectural industry, and have been providing a lot of support to architectural firms in terms of some of their HR and di work and so forth. So that's in a nutshell.

28:36

That's a bit that's a big nut.

Speaker 2 28:41

So, so Barbara, do you recall how you first encountered his work and what led you to, what led you to twist his arm? And, well,

Speaker 3 28:51

I had, we were reaching out to companies and organizations to join the series, and so I think effin is was still in the recruiting position, and so we reached out to Weyerhaeuser to join the series, and he, he's the one that that brought, you know, Weyerhaeuser in as the sponsor of the series. And then, then, you know, things developed, and he became the chief diversity officer. So, one of the things that we did with the series, and it was just a natural as part of the beginning, is we had this network of the the the diversity leaders and practitioners and organizations, and we would meet in the afternoons of the the series sessions in the morning. So the series was a bi monthly series. So there was a workshop every other month. And so this group of people started getting together, meeting in the afternoon to discuss what happened in the morning and to discuss our work. And that that group became a fundamental. Uh, part of the success of the Northwest Diversity Learning Series, because we were, we were learning as professionals in this field, and it was emerging field, you know, it was not, it was not established at time. And so, so I got to know efnes, I started working with him, and we stayed in touch. And then, when, when archbrite decided, I think both of us were, we were starting to meet with archbrite Just to help them with the series. And then, then they asked us if we would take it over. And so,

Speaker 2 30:38

so that's I was when I was the My role at President CEO, the Lighthouse for the Blind here in Seattle, we we engaged we called it Washington employers, the right precursor to archbish. We engaged them on a couple sticky HR situations. I value I value them. Yeah, yeah. So the Northwest Diversity Learning Series that's happening here in 2025 that people listening to this podcast can join in on and learn. It's very interesting and something new. I'm learning the first session with Michael Ressler from the Aspen Institute. We learned about a framework called the better arguments framework. And I know you chose that very intentionally to align with our turbulent argumentative times. So, you know, I'd like, I'd love to hear your take on how you chose the thematic structure around the better arguments framework. And if you could talk about the upcoming series events so people can get a taste of what they they they can take advantage of

31:45

if they so choose.

Speaker 3 31:48

Well, we were looking for we we had so we meet with our sponsors in the summertime to figure out what we're going to do next. And that's been going on for 27 years, meeting and making these decisions. And so in our meetings, in in in 2024 it was we got some real clear direction from some of our folks that they they felt that their people needed help communicating about these contentious issues. And so I'm, my background is, is in interpersonal communication. So I've had a lot of training and conflict resolution communication models, and I just didn't think that they were, you know, what we wanted. And so we began looking at all kinds of things, searching. And one day I came upon the better arguments project. And I thought, Hmm, that's really interesting. So that the the the mover and shaker of the better arguments project is a man by the name of Eric Liu, and he comes out of, I believe, Microsoft. And he, he had the view that that we needed. We didn't need to stop arguing. We needed better arguments. We needed to understand, you know, to be able to articulate why we felt the way we did. And so I just started reading up on him and the better arguments project. We called Michael Ressler. We talked with him. He went through it with us, and then he finally agreed to do the first session. So the the first session really laid the foundation for, you know, what is the what is the better arguments framework? How do you have better arguments? So, the the better arguments framework is built on, on three dimensions and five principles. So the three dimensions are, you have to, you have to pay attention to the these fundamental parts of every argument, which is historical context, emotional intelligence and power dynamics. And then, so that's the context that you work with. And then the better arguments process is based on five principles, and that is, take winning off the table, prioritize relationships, listen passionately, pay attention to context, embrace vulnerability and make room to transform. So we just thought this was a really good model for talking about contentious issues. And we we came up with a whole list of contentious issues in our society. At the moment, there's no shortage. And so our process was narrowing down what was, what were the, what were the issues that we really wanted to to talk about. And so we we've we finally decided on on five topics. We decided to do five workshops this year, three special events. Because there's so much turmoil, we wanted to have a little bit more on flexibility and nimbleness in responding to things as they they come up. So we did, we did our foundation session on the better arguments framework in February. Library are in March. In March, we did a session called di business strategies, needed or not, and we recruited the whole is the board who have incredible experience. And we did the session about, you know, why? Why diversity anyway? Why? Why is it needed? And that was that was illuminating. It was illuminating just in our conversations with the board as we prepared this session, we learned as we prepared this topic. So it was, it was an excellent session. And then so the next one coming up is may 14, and that is, immigrants. Do they take jobs away from US citizens? And I was just reading the New York Times yesterday, and sure enough, this trope, you know, somebody who's being interviewed says, you know, immigrants take jobs away from from US citizens. You know, it's when you really probe into that question. That's not really what happens. But you know, people, this is, this is the story that gets told. So we have a wonderful presenter who's has, you know, great experience working with immigrants in the country and and she's going to do our session. Her name is Jess Galvan and she's the daughter of Mexican American immigrants in this country. So, and then our last, our topic in September is meritocracy, that that is all over the place. I mean, you hear it every day. And then the final one is racism re examined. Is it over or not? And I think that will be very interesting. We've got, we've got a really excellent presenter for that one, and really helping people have some conversations about racism in a different way. So we're, we're really excited about this series, and it's an opportunity for people to learn to have conversations and and, and, you know, one of one of our participants had the experience. She took the better arguments framework to have a conversation with a family member and a friend, both of political persuasions, and she was surprised and pleased at how well the better arguments, framework and process work for her. They could have, they could have a meaningful conversation so it, you know, it does work.

Speaker 2 37:19

And the remaining sessions of the learning series will amplify and dig deeper into the better arguments framework, right? That's the structure

Speaker 3 37:28

each session is based on the better arguments framework. So each presenter has to work with that framework. So we work, we're working very hard with all of them to follow this process. We designed a an outline that they will follow. So, you know, we really structured this so that the framework would get used every single session, so people get, you know, multiple times to learn it and practice it.

37:57

Yeah, the

Speaker 2 38:00

the people listening who want to join in and learn the better arguments framework and dig into the topics of the learning series. How do people get involved? How do people sign up? People

Speaker 3 38:12

register. They can go to the ISD website, Ifor, sdi.org, and just registers a registration tab, and they can register right there. I

Speaker 2 38:23

numeral 4s, di Institute for Sustainable diversity and inclusion. That is so I didn't know Eric Lew was involved in better arguments framework. I know Eric, yeah. I know he started citizen University. That's right. I know he served, served our nation, the Clinton administration, at least as a domestic policy advisor, correct? He did. He's got a great TED talk. Yeah, I didn't realize that today. I learned something new every day. So good learning. You mentioned sponsors. You mentioned getting together with sponsors last summer to design the 2025, learning series. So tell me a little bit about sponsors, and who, who are sponsors, who should be sponsors, and what, what do, uh, sponsors do for the

39:13

cause? Definitely want to take that one. Why

39:17

don't you go ahead and take that one as well.

Speaker 4 39:21

But what I will say is that each year, we try to come up with themes and topics that resonate with our sponsors. And what we generally do is we put together a packet of information that talks about, you know what, what we're proposing for the series we invite, and the what we're proposing is based on the discussion, the conversations with representatives from the sponsoring organizations. We have several, we have several levels of sponsorship for companies and nonprofits and. We share what that looks like and what's available as a part of that, we've had sponsors in the past that have ranged from Nordstrom, which has been a significant signature sponsor for a number of years, others, like the Boeing company warehouse, has been in and out as well Alaska Airlines. So we actually, during the fall of the year identify the sponsors that we go out and share with them what we're planning and doing and invite them to join the series at one of the sponsorship level. They're different levels, and each level represents the number of people that could be invited to a particular session and so forth. Okay,

Speaker 2 40:44

so if I'm a sponsor that gives me the opportunity to invite my employees, my stakeholders, my donors, my board members, whoever my stakeholders may be, absolutely coming and experience the Learning Series. Okay,

40:58

right? Barbara, is there anything I missed?

Speaker 3 41:03

No, I just Yeah. I just want to emphasize that sponsorships have never been just about providing money from the very get go. We wanted sponsorships to be tied to people coming to and learning in the sessions. So every sponsorship you get X number of seats for your employees and managers, and they the series became, over time, a really strong resource for training and educating employees, diversity councils, Employee Resource Groups, employee business groups and managers. So So one of the things that that the the employees would often say is say our our supervisors need to be in this training, our managers need to be in this training. So so we went back to the sponsor, and they said, This is the kind of feedback we're getting from our, you know, your employees that are attending the sessions. And so I said, What if we, what if we make a concerted effort to recruit and get more more sponsors or more managers into these sessions? And that did happen. And so our most recent data is about 40% of the attendees are managers.

Speaker 2 42:20

Great, but any individual can attend. Don't need to be affiliated with a sponsor. You

Speaker 3 42:26

do not need to be affiliated with a sponsor. So if you go to register on the website, those are, that's, those are individual seats that you're purchasing. And also, I want to make sure that people understand that, that, you know, we've we have to collect a certain amount of money to stay solvent, but also we, we've offered lower pricing for nonprofits. We've ordered, offered lower pricing for tribal members, lower pricing for retirees, and lower prices for students. So we have, with our sponsor support, we are able to offer some lower rates for people in you know, not affiliated with organizations or organizations that are non profit.

43:09

That's That's fabulous. So

Speaker 4 43:12

what one of the other things I'd just like to point out too that's important that the series has been evolving over the years for a number of the years, in fact, up until COVID, all of the sessions were held in person at Nordstrom downtown, and they were very gracious host and sponsor for the series. When COVID hit, we had to kind of talk about, well, why do we what are we got to do now, right? And so we decided that we were going to go virtual. We weren't sure, unsure. We weren't too sure about it, but we did, and we found that by by going virtually, a lot of folks like that, there is kind of the loss of the personal interaction, and so, so we're trying to evaluate that, but for the distant future. This this venue allows a lot of folks to participate, who would, who might not, otherwise participate from places as far away as Florida and so forth. So we're really pleased by that. The other thing I'll say is that this year, given feedback, we're introducing the cohort, a cohort, cohort learning group, which will kick off in June, which will be six to our sessions for the balance of the year, for young practitioners who want to take a deeper dive in into di work and the things that they should be cognizant of as di champions and leaders and so forth. Oh,

Speaker 2 44:41

that's fabulous. So anyone listening to this podcast, you know a young, emerging leader, this is for them. I know I recently read a grant proposal evidence that you crafted us seeking support from Morgan Stanley. If, if you're with Morgan. Stanley vote yes funding that grant. But I know that you articulated some elements of the vision of the future of ISD. So let's, let's wave that magic wand and say that we obtain all the funding that is necessary to scale is the to have the impact that is needed in these trying times. What are some of the things you see for the future? Well, one of the things both of you

Speaker 4 45:30

but one of the things I'd just like to comment on that we haven't touched on is that Barbara and I both bring a fairly deep knowledge of di work, and we have both been involved in the development of of standards. Barbara with the Global Diversity, Equity and Inclusion benchmarks, and I served as the convener for the international organizations for standardizations. ISO standard, 30415, semicolon, 2021, which is the diversity and inclusion standard. And we believe, as we look forward, that increasingly organizations want tested frameworks and standards to help guide the development and sustainability of the work that they do in this area. And part of what we're trying to impress upon people that this isn't something that's performative, but that it's something that's very much integral to carrying out the mission, the vision of the organization, and that it goes beyond just employees, but to all stakeholders. So these frameworks help people gain a better understanding and appreciation for that, and we're going to be doing more about that as well. We're also going to be in a half we're looking specifically at research around, how do you counter this di under fire context that we're in? And so we've been putting together some special events, and we likely will have more this year, which helps people understand what's behind this pushback. What are the things that we can do? How do we message the importance of di and so forth, and so we think that's going to be a valuable add to the work that we're doing this year as well. Yeah,

Speaker 2 47:14

and I say assault rather than a pushback assault, that's just me, but that's fabulous. I know there's tools, so my ISO experiences in aerospace manufacturing, as the lighthouse here in Seattle has many, many blind and deaf, blind machinists making as 9100 quality aircraft parts. So I understand what that means, that there are standards, there are indicators that you're on the path to success. There are ways to test what you're doing. There are processes. So the ISO standard for for di What about valuable set of tools for people? So thank thank you for your work on that, and Barbara the global benchmarks again, including people, is the right thing to do from a moral, ethical standpoint, but it's also the right thing to do from an effective, effectiveness impact strategy standpoint for businesses, organizations, to deliver, like you said, evidence on their mission, vision of values, the best way they can. That's doing to include as many strengths as possible, which means including the whole spectrum of human contributions. So love the work you've both done, love to be part love, love to be joining the Mary band at this point, being on the is the board and just excited, and I think very motivated. And I think there are lots of people who are looking for a way to get involved, to to engage a place, a place to call home, a place to pitch in and contribute. And I would offer the Institute for Sustainable diversity, inclusion is the as that place

49:10

Sure. Could I add something? Right?

Speaker 3 49:13

I think one of the things that is the has done, and I think we're, you know, we're going to push it more as we as we move into this environment, and that is intercultural competence. So like it or not, the United States is a multicultural, multi racial, hopefully democracy continues. And so the diversity of our population just is. It exists, and it has for since the start of this country. And so we've been we've been trying to figure out how we deal with diversity our entire lives. And there have been advances and retractions and for. Forward and backward throughout our history. You can, you can read it anywhere. And so right now, there's a there's a model that I wrote about early on in 1988 and it has evolved. It was called the experiencing differences model. Now it's called the intercultural development continuum. So, and I know both of the both of the scholars that that contributed to developed and produced this model. So back in in 19 I was

50:34

taking notes when I talked to you too,

Speaker 3 50:39

I talked with Milton Bennett, who, who, who developed the first version of the model. It was called experiencing differences model. And he's, it was somebody asked him, can you tell us where the United States is? And he says, well, it's not really a a country model. But he said, If you force me to to answer, I would say it's in the stage of minimization, which is, which is a stage to to minimize differences. But today, I would say that the United States has reverted back to the second stage in the model called polarization, and that's where we recognize the differences. We don't like them, and we judge them to be inferior to who we are, and so that that basically the country has moved back into a earlier stage of the developmental model. And you know that it just, it just doesn't work very well for the reality of what we are. So I think one of the things that the the institute is going to think about as we move forward is, how can we help people understand and gain intercultural competency in this world that is becoming ever more diverse? And of course, diversity not only has to do with the diversity in our own country, but because of airplanes, diversity travels around the world at at great speed. And I used to remind the Boeing, the Boeing people, when we worked with Boeing. You, you all, you all facilitate international travel. You all facilitate international diversity and people moving around the globe. You all do that. That's part of what is the result of building airplanes. And so we have to become competent working with people different from ourselves. What a diplomat once said to me, you know, we have been come. We are competent in dealing with people like ourselves. We have to become competent in dealing with people who are different than we are. That's the next stage in adult development. I had that conversation 20 years ago. We are still in that that box, that bucket, so to speak, we need to learn to be more confident with the diversity around us, because it's not going away. That's right,

Speaker 2 53:02

the Northwest. Firstly, learning series is here as one way we can all work together again. Thank you Barbara, thank you Ethan, us for being here today. Love to have continue this conversation, and maybe in about six months toward the end of the year, see what's unfolded, see what's developed. That

53:20

would be very interesting.

Speaker 2 53:23

Yeah. So again, this is a podcast by Dr Kirk Adams, and I really I learned so much from both of you, whenever, whenever we speak. Now, now that I'm on the board, I have the opportunity to be in various meetings with both of you, and I always have my note taker at hand, because I always learn something from from both of you. I just treasure the opportunity to be part of his di and to bring these resources to the community sorely needed at this point in time. So here we are, and I will talk again later. Thank you again. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 54:07

Thank you for listening to podcasts by Dr Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a review at WWW dot drcker adams.com, together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change until next time, keep listening, keep learning and keep making an impact.