Supercharge Your Bottom Line Through Disability Inclusion: April 29, 2025: Kristin Smedley and Charlie Collins, Co-Founders, Thriving Blind Academy

Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams

In this episode of Supercharge Your Bottom Line Through Disability Inclusion, Dr. Kirk Adams dives deep into the mind-set and mechanics of building a flourishing life and career without sight. Blending scholarship, lived experience and laugh-out-loud storytelling, the trio unpack what really moves the employment needle for blind talent, and how every company's bottom line can grow in the process. ✅ What You'll Learn ✅ The T.H.R.I.V.E.R.™ Formula-Tools, Handi-capable mind-set, Responsibility, Independence & interdependence, Value, Emotion, Risk-taking-and why it's the “operating system” of the Academy. ✅ How a new Grant Cardone Foundation partnership will fly 100 blind youth (ages 15-21) to Miami for elite leadership & financial-literacy training-at no cost to families. ✅ The power of high expectations and internal locus of control in Dr. Adams' own journey from childhood blindness to C-suite leadership. ✅ Why “enabling is disabling” and how letting kids scrape their knees builds unstoppable adults. ✅ Kristin's forthcoming feature film “Curve Ball”-think Erin Brockovich x Rocky-showing how inclusive Little League changes hearts (and wins championships). ✅ Real-world ROI: why only 4 % of DEI programs include disability and how that's leaving billions on the table (plus the fix). 🎙️ Host Dr. Kirk Adams - Former Lighthouse/AFB CEO, PhD in Leadership & Change, and founder of Innovative Impact LLC. 🎤 Guests Kristin Smedley - TEDx speaker, author of Thriving Blind, mom of two blind collegiate honors grads, and the visionary force behind Thriving Blind Academy. Charlie Collins - Best-selling memoirist (Tripping into the Light), serial entrepreneur and certified Jack Canfield Success Principles trainer. 🌉 Connect & Take Action 🔗 Join the Academy (family membership $97/year): ThrivingBlindAcademy.org SYBL-TDI-05-29-2025-Kri… ✈️ Mentor Program (ages 15-21) - limited to 100 seats; apply now! SYBL-TDI-05-29-2025-Kri… 🎬 Support “Curve Ball” and help rewrite Hollywood's blindness narrative. SYBL-TDI-05-29-2025-Kri… 📅 Register for Dr. Adams' next “Supercharge Your Bottom Line” LinkedIn Live (last Thursday monthly). #️⃣ Hashtags #DisabilityInclusion #BlindEmployment #ThrivingBlind #DrKirkAdams #KristinSmedley #CharlieCollins #GrantCardoneFoundation #THRIVER #AccessibleLeadership #DEI #InclusionMatters #Podcast #Webinar TRANSCRIPT:

Speaker1: Welcome to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, doctor Kirk Adams.

Speaker2: Welcome, everybody, to Doctor Kirk Adams monthly live stream webinar. I am Doctor Kirk Adams and the webinar is titled Supercharge Your Bottom Line through Disability Inclusion. And we really talk a lot about employment and the barriers to employment for people who are blind, and the success factors that lead to successful employment for people who are blind. And I did my doctoral dissertation, which is called Journeys Through Rough Country Ethnographic study of blind adults employed in large American Corporations. And I learned a lot of things that I see emphasized and highlighted by the thriving Blind Academy. And I have the two co-founders of Thriving Blind Academy with me today. So Kristin and Charlie, if you could say hello.

Speaker3: Hey. Good to be here.

Speaker4: Hello. My name is Charlie, and I'm also very grateful to be here.

Speaker2: Great. Great. So my retina is detached. When I was five years old and I went to a school for blind kids first, second and third grade. And I got three things given to me there that later, as an adult researcher, I found were strong predictors of successful employment for blind adults. One was blindness skills. I learned to read and write Braille the same, same time. Sighted kids were learning to read and write print in first grade. I learned how to travel confidently and safely with a long white cane. And I learned how to type on a typewriter so I could type for my teachers. Today it would be keyboarding and using assistive technology. I was also given high expectations and many kids with disabilities that are their families like mine. My parents were in their mid 20s when my retinas detached. They'd never met a blind person before. So many, many kids are born into families who don't have knowledge or experience, and Sometimes they have preconceived notions about the capabilities of people with disabilities, and they have low expectations of their children. And schools sometimes have low expectations of children, and those become internalized. So my school had high expectations. My parents had high expectations. My dad was a they were both teachers. My dad was a high school basketball coach.

Speaker2: They didn't want to see anything less than an A on a report card. And they wanted their kids to be on sports teams and extracurricular activities, etc.. And my school, the school for the blind, had high expectations. There were 120 blind kids K through eight. We were all those of us who didn't have an additional disability, were expected to be at grade level. And then the third thing I got was a strong internal locus of control or sense of agency. So, you know, the internal locus of control, meaning that I control my destiny, I can overcome. I can figure it out. I can be creative. I can solve my problems as opposed to an external locus of control where you have that that terrible feeling. That stuff keeps happening to me and there's not much I can do about it. So I was given those three things, and then when I did my doctoral research, I found out that the blind individuals I talked to who self-identified as successfully employed in large companies, they had those same things. They also had knowledge, skills and abilities that were required for the jobs they were doing. They also talked about the importance of working, being part of teams, either sports teams or choirs or debate teams as teams was a factor that that came out a lot.

Speaker2: Having a company they were working for that had a culture of inclusion, Having a supportive immediate supervisor. And so we I learned a lot about what can lead to success for employment for people who are blind. And as we know, only 35% of us are in the workforce, which leads to a lot of bad things. Poverty. Health disparities mental health disparities, the homeownership disparities, all, all, all kinds of bad stuff. And I got I got pretty clear 30 plus years ago that employment and interesting appropriately compensated career and solve a lot of problems for people. So I've, I've devoted myself really, really to creating pathways to employment. And as, as you may know, I, I was privileged to be the president and CEO of the Lighthouse for the blind here in Seattle, where we employed several hundred blind and deaf blind people and businesses, including. Aerospace. Manufacturing. Advanced manufacturing. I then had the opportunity and honor and privilege to lead the American Foundation for the blind, which was Helen Keller's organization, and moved to New York from Seattle and then D.C. and shortly after I arrived at the office offices at two Penn Plaza next to Madison Square Garden in New York, and where I was able to go sit at Helen Keller's desk, play with her typewriter, which was a really inspirational thing to do if I ever needed a little motivation.

Speaker2: I got a call from a person named Kristin Smedley, and she said, I want to come talk to you, and I'm in Philadelphia and I'm going to get on a train. When will you be in? So Chris, Kristin is not a shy person. And so she came and we talked and formed a great, wonderful collegial relationship in a, in a, in a different thread and narrative. I was introduced to Charlie Collins and spent some time with him in Washington, DC with some other very charismatic positive blind people. And at some point, Charlie and Kristin connected and created the thriving Blind Academy. And so we want to talk about that today. So I thought perhaps, Charlie, if you could talk to us about your life experience as a person with a visual impairment some of the peaks in the valleys and things, things you've learned along the way. And if you could, if you could. This is like writing a novel. This is chapter one. Chapter one is going to lead to the point where you meet Christopher.

Speaker4: The point where I was. What? There.

Speaker2: Where do you meet Kristin? Give us your life story. Until the point in time when you and Kristin connected.

Speaker4: Oh, this is a couple hour thing, right?

Speaker3: I was, like, within reason.

Speaker4: Kristin's nervous. Trust me.

Speaker3: I'm putting my coffee down. Yes.

Speaker4: I first of all, thank you for having us as guests on your podcast, where this is a great privilege. And so, sure, I I'm one of six in my family, and and we as young children I was nine, my sister was five, and, you know, whatever. 11 and 14, all four out of six of us were diagnosed back in the late 1776. It was called juvenile macular degeneration. But you know, now it's Stargardt’s. And we were all diagnosed with that in my senior because, you know, we were struggling a bit and my brother wore glasses. He's older. And it just nothing was working and, you know, nothing nobody knew in the state of Connecticut where I lived, still what was going on? We tried different kinds of doctors, and one doctor suggested that we get in contact with this mass pioneer because he goes, it could be something in the eye. We just don't get it. And sure enough, that's what we learned on that day. And then we went back. Kirk, all six of us, eight of us in the big old Plymouth station wagon once a quarter for a year and a half.

Speaker2: Did it have the back, rear facing seat.

Speaker4: Yes. That was the way back.

Speaker2: Yes. That the way, way back. Yes. That was the.

Speaker4: That was my favorite place because you could make faces at the cars behind you.

Speaker3: Exactly right.

Speaker4: And what was another neat thing about those cars was they didn't have catalytic converters. And when you put the back window down, the exhaust came right back in the car. So that could be one of my problems. Anyway we after that year and a half, my thought was, obviously we're doing all this because they're going to fix it. And that wasn't the case on our last day there. They said, thank you very much. There's no more sense coming in. We did not. We don't know of a way to fix this, reverse it, or give you your children back their eyesight. And here's a list of all the things that you can't do in life. I mean, these were researchers, and these people were not even their social skills weren't that great, But what they were good at was, you know, being behind the scenes, working on a cure. But anyway, they gave us, like, we shouldn't really be very careful. Snow skiing. Probably won't be playing sports in school. We'll never drive a car. Wait a minute. Read that again. And all these things and they said in your eyes are going to progressively they're going to get worse. And as we were walking out of there, Kirk, my mom, I heard and I saw she took that piece of paper and she just crumpled it into a ball and threw it in the garbage. And we left, and that was you know, I never went to a blind school, you know, I was, I am, I was, but then at age 13, I was declared legally blind, and I was not accepting. I I never liked it. I was an angry, visually impaired kid. I wanted to be sighted like my friends, I wanted Charlie.

Speaker2: I was totally blind when my retinas detached at age five and in middle school I went to school every day. Don't listen to this, kids. And I put my cane in my locker and didn't use it all day because I didn't want to stand out by having a cane in my hand. So I rather stand out by banging into people in the hallway and groping the walls to find the doorways and things like that. So I also had a lot of resentment as a teenager, so I understand that fully.

Speaker4: Thank you. And that willful blindness, the blindness that we work with in the Academy, the blind spots in the mind and all that, the true nature of the problem which I was beginning to learn, not learn, beginning to experience in my life. The blaming, complaining, the poor me. Why did this have to happen to me? And you know, my brother didn't complain that much. My older sister didn't. My little sister was little and she didn't. But it was it wasn't right. And it wasn't fair and I knew I have some sight. So I knew what I lost. I knew what I because I'd be sitting with my buddy and he'd be like, we were sitting at the bottom of a little ski area, and he we were at the bottom of a hill sitting in his car, and we were just watching the skiers come down. And at the top of the hill, he's like, that person has a blue jacket on and this and that. And I'm like, what? You can see that that. That's insane. I mean, I would have had to walk up and be within five feet to tell back then that he had a blue jacket on and he's like 150 yards away seeing it just fine. So I kind of was like this, how am I ever going to get through life not seeing? But the thing is, my parents were like yours. They didn't care. It wasn't. They didn't care, but they didn't allow me to say I can't because of my eyesight. Even though that story was building in my own mind and, you know, I had to go to all school.

Speaker4: We all went to private schools. None of us went to any blind schools or gotten any special training. I never had a TVI. I think one came in in high school and I said, I don't need you go away because God forbid, like you with the cane. What happens if a student saw me meeting with somebody? They would think something's wrong with me. I tried to hide it as much as I could to, and that was impossible, because I couldn't see the kids coming down the hallway that well, you know, I was lost a lot, and and you know, and that was my journey for up until age 23. You know, I hit the wall a lot, but I. Kirk, I went to work at a at a at a ski area, and I was the guy watching up at the top of the hill, watching the people come up the lift. Not a good job for a legally blind guy. And I'm like, all of a sudden the phone rings and the guy's like, hey why aren't you stopping the lift? I said, why? He's like, well, somebody's getting dragged. And I was like, oh, okay. So I went to the guy and I said, hey, can you take me off the j-bar? And then he put me on the chairlift and then, you know, and then I finally said, I'm visually impaired, I can I sweep. I don't want a position that has to involve me taking skiing to endanger people.

Speaker2: Right.

Speaker4: Yeah. Thank you. That's what I. I didn't say it back then. I was more worried about me than them. And Anyway, so my journey went like that. I built tennis courts. I worked always, but I always said I'm never going to amount to much more than this. But I went to work every day. I worked really hard every day. And my dad the that value, that ethic of, you know, if you want, you gotta, you gotta earn. My dad didn't just give away things. He made us work for it. And thank God for that. I mean, I, I hated him for it. To be honest, but the day that I grew up enough and said thank you for teaching me this, you know Kirk at the at the when I was at the jumping off point in my life, you know, there were many nights I, I laid in bed wishing I would die that night. There were lots of times I thought about how I could take myself out, because I'm. I'm never going to amount to anything. And then, you know, these times I would lay in bed and cry myself to sleep in private. Would never tell anybody that I am full of fear. I don't belong. I don't, you know, I never would have shared that because I didn't share my feelings. And I I got an opportunity at a motorcycle dealership and I panicked.

Speaker4: I didn't know what to do, but I was at the jumping off point. I said yes, but I told the guy that you know what? You're nuts. You're hiring a visually impaired. I am legally blind. What the heck are you thinking? I didn't say that, but that's what I was thinking. And he said, I'm aware that you had something going on with your eyes. Because I, of course, was a customer there. I had a dirt bike and but he said, I believe in you. And then he sat there and in that moment, my eyes teared up. I'm like, oh, great. The guy is, you know, hiring me, and I'm almost crying. I'm like, you believe me, I don't believe in me. One of the biggest principles we work with in the Academy is that belief. It's possible. And belief in yourself. And I didn't have that at all. And he started to let me see that within me. And I called and got help. The state agency came in at 23 years old. Finally, first time and they I got adaptive technology. I got a CCTV, a lamp, I got a computer. And then I started learning it and I skyrocketed and became part owner of that company in a short amount of time. And then I left that company, and then I opened another company and Vision Dynamics, selling adaptive technologies for people.

Speaker4: And I started to here in Cheshire, Connecticut. People would say, why did you start it here? I said, because I can get here. You know, I live in a rural area. There's no transportation really around here, and I need to get to work now. I did ride a scooter a little bit, but we won't go there right now. And anyway, I ran that company for 19 years. We served almost 17,000 people, helped regain their independence and live a better quality of life. Stepping into what is possible with any type of disability, but mostly vision impairment. We did a lot with learning difficulties and things like that too, and that fueled my life because I saw that I have something to give. I am here for a reason. My eye disease. I don't like it, but it doesn't, you know. I accept it. It doesn't mean I need to like it, but I do accept it. And most days I forget that I have a vision impairment and you know. And that's good. You know, I just go about my day and we, you know, our environment, my environments are all set up for success. So anyway, after that business, I sold it. I wrote a book, tripping into the light. I started going around speaking, and I.

Speaker2: Have that book right here on my BrailleSense. I download it from bookshare. It's pretty. It's pretty. It's a page turner.

Speaker4: Yeah, well, we won't go into that. I mean, I turned to alcohol and drugs to to solve the misery of somebody making me blind, you know? And it was it was a solution when I was younger. It worked, but it stopped working. It created more problems. So do not try that path. And if you do, stop doing it because it only gets worse. I you know, I'm grateful that I'm sober and I'm alive and above ground and breathing, you know? And anyway, I got rid of that company. I sold it in 2016. And then you know, I was out helping the industry and doing some marketing things and going all around and getting in front of crowds and sharing my success principles, and well, they weren't mine, but I was repurposing them through my lens and through my story. And then, you know, that wonderful lockdown happened, and I was in a morning a mastermind group, accountability mastermind group, and I started seeing Kristin's block on the thing, and I would zoom in with my magnifying. I'm going. She had, like, a baseball cap on. And, you know, she was a bit like she had no problem talking and sharing whatever in the conversation. But I found out she had two sons that were blind, and I'm like And she said some things that, like you said, she said, you know, it's if it's meant to be, it's up to them. I can't get them successful. I can only teach them certain things, but it really pisses me off what they're up against out there. And I'm like, oh, that's what I've been doing all. And then I'm private teaching her and she's ignoring me. I'm like, now I don't think I like her anymore. Let me try one more time. I'm like, hi, this is Charlie. I'm legally blind. We should connect nothing. I'm like And you know, of course she said, oh, I don't think I ever got him. But anyway, finally we.

Speaker3: Connected.

Speaker4: And then we started our own group with a group of us doing a mastermind, and we did it for a good year and a half or so. Right, Kristin? Through the. I don't like even saying it that time. And we had this brilliant idea. Why don't we join forces, take the thriving blind tripping into the light our life experiences and do what we both know needs to be done. And that we really want to we're passionate about. And we formed the thriving Blind Academy, basically.

Speaker2: End of chapter one.

Speaker3: Okay. I'm done. Chapter one has ended.

Speaker2: Chapter two. Kristin's journey. Until she met Charlie in the master.

Speaker3: Well, you know, it's interesting as I'm sitting here listening and it always reminds me I love doing these interviews with Charlie. Because he reminds me often about how different we are and how different our journeys are. And, I mean, you're going to hear an exact opposite situation. You know, Charlie's mom, who I'm so envious of that she got that diagnosis, crumpled up that paper and threw it in the trash can. And most people right now, in 2025, hear the name Kristin Smedley. And they would expect that I did the exact same thing as Charlie's mom. And then I went out there and took on the world with my boys, and it was completely opposite. So if people are watching, listening and and coming up against a challenge, you know, some of us are able to crumple it up and throw it in the trash can. And some of us cry on the couch for a while. And and what I want you to hear is that no matter where you're starting in all of that, everyone can get to the crumpling it up, throwing it away, and making stuff happen. Because the fact that I started by hearing a doctor say, your son is blind at five months old, my firstborn child, that I had no plans to hear blindness, I he was the first blind person I had ever met, and the only story that I knew about blindness was what? I'm going to date myself here, but I know I'm amongst good company that will know this show from your ages as well. Little House on the Prairie was the story of blindness that I knew.

Speaker2: Old Mary by the fireplace. Well, Laura goes to school.

Speaker3: She sat there and did nothing. Everybody cried when she would wake up in the morning and couldn't do anything. And then what did they do? They shipped her off to a school for the blind. That burnt down. Like, how negative can you possibly get over blindness? So that was, you know, that was the story that Hollywood was selling about blindness. And I didn't hear anything else. So that's what I believed when the doctor said, your son is blind. Now, I like to think I'm pretty on the ball now. And I was pretty on the ball and was highly accomplished at that by the time that moment had happened. But I just couldn't get my head around it. So instead of saying, okay, direct me to all the resources, direct me to direct me, I said, whoa, is he going to play baseball? Like that was all of my hopes and dreams for him. Is he going to play baseball? Will he be playing football for the Eagles? We're a little bit crazy sports fans here in Philadelphia. Self-admitted will he how is he going to excel in school? How is he going to do? And I was envisioning my life and all of my dreams for him. How is he going to go to college? How is he going to get married? And as I'm verbalizing all this, and the movie is running in my mind, and then suddenly running into darkness, the doctor said he's not going to do any of the things that you think he's going to do.

Speaker3: And I said, well, then what am I supposed to do with him? And he said, I don't know, but good luck. So I do give myself a lot of grace now that, that when you start a journey with something so unexpected and the person that is the specialist, you know, the the go to the the knowing it all person knows nothing about it and says, I don't know, but I need you to move out of this office because I have other people in the waiting room. It's why I'm passionate and will work 80 hours a week to get things off the ground, because I don't want another mom to have to start the journey like that. But here's where. Here's where it gets real different from my story and Charlie's story. Not only was I different from his mom, I went home and cried on the couch for three years. I mean, I was, you know, Michael was just one of those human beings that you just are a better person for spending a few minutes with him, and he draws you in. And he's been like that since he was born. He just has this incredible spirit that really impacts people. And I was I was seeing that during the day. But honestly, for three years I was every night praying, blindness away. And every morning I was pissed off that it was still there, because I just did not expect to have to learn about something I had never planned for. I wasn't that kind of person.

Speaker3: I was high achieving. There was high expectations for me in my own life, but I always did the things that I knew I'd be good at, and I didn't really like to try things that were brand new that I had never heard of, let alone had no resources for. And everyone has to remember this is back in the year 2000. There was no Facebook group to go to. There was no Google to see what was happening in the world and find some success stories. With blindness, there was nothing. There was a listserv of a couple of maybe a hundred parents that also had blind kids. And when I went on that listserv, every message was devastation, sadness. It was horrible. It was the most horrible reading I had ever done for two weeks. So I was praying this away, pissed off every morning. And then when I was expecting my Mitchell, my second child, three and a half years later. Because to be perfectly honest, you know, if you look at if you look at families mine and Charlie's are very different to have more than one blind child, most people get a blindness diagnosis and they never have another baby. And I was first of all, I'm from a really big family, so I could not imagine having an only child. And I am a research nerd. I mean, I researched with people I was calling people that were only children helped me get my head around this. But what it really boiled down to, and I'm not exactly proud of this, but it is what it is.

Speaker3: I figured a second child, if Michael had a sibling, he'd have a built in friend because I couldn't fathom how he was going to make friends if he wasn't going to be on sports teams like I was. If he wasn't going to be in school like I was. Where were his friends going to come from? So I was going to I was going to give him one. And then I also thought, you know what? There's no way for three and a half years I've been horrible at this diagnosis. So there's no way that the God I believed in would send me another one and screw that up, too, right? Like no way. And I also figured it was Leber’s congenital amaurosis was our diagnosis. So I looked that up and it was a 25% chance. And I'm like the delirious optimist. There's a 75% chance that we got nothing going on, right? So right before Mitchell was born, I woke up one morning and the math major in college, Kristin, came to the table that morning and said, whoa, 25% is like a really big chance. And I've got this feeling we're going to deal with this a second time. And you want to talk about my ugliest of cries and my most horrific of prayer moments. It was a full on tantrum that I was having that morning because I'm like, there's no way I could do this again. And what kind of a God would, would do something like that to a child once and then and then a second child.

Speaker3: And I couldn't even get out of my room that morning. I got to the end of my bed, and that's all depressed and sad I was. And then I could hear Michael making his way down the hallway to my bedroom. And at three and a half years old, my Michael didn't walk. He skipped and he jumped. And he would sing a song and dance his way through every day. And he came barreling into my room and he said, mommy, isn't this the best day ever? And I was like, oh my God. And I thought to myself, you have no idea that your best day is going to be a fraction of what my best day will be. You have no idea what kind of world you're stepping into, and you have no idea what you're going to miss out on. So I said to him, Michael, why do you think that this is the best day ever? And with his big signature smile and a that just lit up every room, he said, mommy, the sun is shining and I have all my toys and I'm just so happy. And he spun around and went back to his perfect day. And in that instance now, yes, I am creating a film in Hollywood, but if I would have directed and written that that part lightning bolts, all kinds of fireworks were going off in, in my mind that I was like, oh my God, this kid is not.

Speaker2: Some visual information for people who are blind. I just I just wiped a tear.

Speaker3: Oh.

Speaker2: Thank you for that.

Speaker3: I was like, I prayed blindness away every day for three years. And in that moment, it was my blindness to Michael and his spirit and all the gifts he had and the life he had ahead of him. I was so blind to his potential and his joy, and his not bothered by blindness that I missed it. For three and a half years. So in that moment, yes, that prayer was answered. Blindness was taken away. Was it the specific one I was talking about? No, it was even better. It was me. The blinders were removed and I was able to see him not as a blind child anymore. I was able to see him as this music loving bundle of joy that made everybody around him a better person after a minute with him. So I didn't know how I was going to do it, because I still didn't have any resources to do it, but I was going to figure out how to get them the tools that they needed. And I and I made a commitment to them in that moment that I would be their guide on the side, and I would get them what they need and follow their lead. And that has led me to the most extraordinary places. And for parents. Whatever your kids have going on or nothing at all going on. I want parents to hear that. I believe, after 25 years now, because Michael turned 25 recently, I believe our biggest struggles and our children's biggest struggles, even into adulthood, are that they are carrying the weight of our expectations, along with the weight of their own expectations on their lives.

Speaker3: Right. And I always say, imagine a kid walking with a backpack, and in that backpack are all of his hopes and dreams, but he's also carrying these bricks and boulders of the parents expectations and hopes and dreams. And that's unfair. And that's what weighs them down. And when we get that off of them and I'm like, hey, the best thing among Many a list of best things about blindness in our life. The best thing it did for me was that my expectations were eliminated, and I literally had to say, I don't know what you're going to be able to do, but whatever you want to get out there and try, I will help you figure it out. And then I quickly had to figure it out that with two of them, I was outnumbered, and I had to go find some people that were able to guide me, which is why I then did become more like Charlie's mom. I muscled up and I started Kirk so lovely said, I just, you know, oh, Kristin called me and then she said she was coming up to visit. I was hunting people down. I was finding people even before we had Facebook and all that. When Google came on the scene, it was like, oh boy, that lady's on there crashing it again, finding the role models to guide my guys and help me find the resources to help them become thrivers in this world.

Speaker2: And you learned a lot.

Speaker5: And I learned a lot.

Speaker2: And I think Charlie mentioned that that that that concludes chapter two. So now we'll move chapter three. And you two can self-organize this chapter any way you want. You're, you're a team. So the thriving blind. The first time I heard the those two words together was a book that you were putting together. Kristin, I'm privileged to be profiled along with some other pretty awesome blind people. And now you develop the thriving Blind Academy. I've had the honor to be part of two summits that you conducted as a thriving blind command academy this January and 2024 I receive your new newsletters and read them with joy. Five to thrive and the different topics you explore. And If you're going to be blind, this is a pretty good time to be blind, because technology is so helpful to us, and we can connect and join in community and engage and access resources in ways that even five years ago we're not as robust as they are now. So the thriving Blind Academy is using all the tools. And I would love to hear how you two created the Academy. What has the journey been so far? What's working well, any challenges you might be having and where you see the Academy going?

Speaker3: Well, let me jump in for one quick second and then I'm going to turn it over to Charlie, because really, it's based in our experiences in Charlie getting into the world and thriving. And then me seeing the things, the elements of my sons and Kirk. You pointed out a few of them in the beginning of this, but it was also Charlie's whole background in the principal, the success principles of all successful people. So I want him to to go into that a little bit, because his journey with that was incredible. But Charlie mentioned when we met in the mastermind, and then he was messaging me and I'm like, okay, wait a minute. I think maybe that's a little bit we get a little bit dramatic in our tales of how we talk about when we met, but when we finally did connect, it was, you know, what I love about both of you? And it's such a testament to successful people. You guys jump in, right? When someone needs to have help, you jump right in as go givers. And I had reached out to both of you for the original Succeed Without Sight summit to say, hey, listen, we can't do anything because it's Covid. Parents really need this message. It's so frustrating. I need them to understand about thriving. And you both came in and said, I don't know what you're putting together, but and I'm like, here, there's going to be a zoom link.

Speaker3: I promise, as soon as I figure it out. And you both came in to speak, Charlie came in on one of the. We had so many speakers, we and we had someone from Australia that I had to switch out the schedule and we started on like a Thursday night, Friday night and all day Saturday. And Charlie was like, who is this woman? I've only seen her with her baseball hats and her Philly attitude in the mornings, and now she wants me to come in and open this summit no one's ever heard of. Okay, so I actually had my Mitchell at the time because everybody was stuck home during the pandemic. I had him come in to my office and listen, the night that Charlie spoke to open this whole summit, because I wanted him to be a speaker, too. And he was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, all these people don't know either, but they have signed up for it. So just do what I say. And Charlie spoke and he and he went more in depth to what he just told all of you just now. And, you know, my Mitchell is very different from my Michael. I mean, they are completely opposite human beings with their unique gifts and talents. But Mitchell struggles with blindness in ways that Michael never did. And I didn't realize that he had been doing what Charlie did, hiding his feelings, not wanting to share them with me because I was such the thriving blind mom.

Speaker3: And when Charlie spoke and ended the session, I shut my laptop and Mitchell looked at me and he said, mom, that guy just changed my life. So I knew in that moment that there's no way that I could build something that would address the entire community, because I don't walk that walk. Right. I can talk to parents, I can I can hug them, I can do all the tough love. I can do all the things because I've been there with two that are very different, But I cannot walk that walk. That a person, especially somebody that loses vision later in life. That has not been my journey. And watching the impact that Charlie had on my Mitchell. And then I watch in our Monday calls and all the things that we do. I mean, it's absolutely, unbelievably necessary for our community to have somebody like Charlie and the stuff that he teaches and coaches in our community is not just tools of blindness and all of in the siloed, shoved into the blindness corner. It's all of what makes a person successful in the world. So, Charlie, I'm going to I'm going to have you go into that a little more on how this came to be, this thrive or formula with the success principles.

Speaker4: Sure. Well, thank you. And Kristin, I think it was when I was in sitting in a classroom and terrified that it was they were doing a reading and it might come. They might try to get me to read. And then I was terrified when they wrote on the chalkboard because the kids would be like, hey, you can't see. You know, and I didn't know how to express that. And then gym class, it really I bombed that day and I was sharing like I held this stuff in, which is just very damaging because then the belief that I am different, I'm less than, I'm not good enough. I'll never thrive. It keeps growing inside of me. And Mitch was like, oh crap, I've been doing that. And you know, and when you realize you're not alone and you do have feelings and they're okay, and let's talk about it. And, you know, the biggest thing was I learned to one day I wasn't alone. I suffered, I had issues, and I but I didn't, but my brother didn't, so I felt alone. Did you. Oh, you moved on the screen. That was weird. You know what I mean? My brother was the opposite of me. He dancing around and doing school and doing dad. Is there anything I can do for you? Stop being so good. You're making me look bad.

Speaker4: Anyway, so, Kristin, I, I, I you know, when this whole constant and never ending improvement that we live by, Kirk understands it. We understand that if we let off the gas for too long we're going to come to a stop. If we stop pedaling on the bike, eventually the bike's going to stop. So you've always got to be in motion. And that's where my. I became addicted to learning and to growing and personally developing. And then I can't keep it unless I give it away. So I want to share only experiences. And I don't talk down from a hilltop. You need to do this. I just like to hey, this is what worked for me. And basically I started going to conferences and doing all this stuff. And when I ever went to the Breakthrough to Success Conference in 2008 and I it was a seven day event that was doing exactly what we do in the academy, basically was showing you the problem, helping you see that you do have the power within to resolve and get rid of discard and start building on some new, you know, beliefs and principles and things like that. You know, because a lot of people that go to those conferences are pretty banged up. They want help and they're ready, you know, and it's always you got to be willing and you got to be ready, make a decision and then move forward.

Speaker4: So by the end of that. Jack Canfield. Chicken soup for the soul. That's the guy that was running these things. And at the end of it, he was going to let us two people out of 400 and something come up on stage and share their story. I'm not a speaker. I mean, I spoke for my company. I went all over the place talking about adaptive technology. What this is going to do for you. But I didn't really bring in my story. So, Kirk, that week he had a big jug on the table, and he gave us all index cards, and you had to write your name in. Why? You think he should pick you to speak? Well, my first thought was, I can't I can't write on an index card. I write massive with a dark pen. So that's not fair. And. And then I toughed around. But I walked by that darn jug every day and looked at the cards, going in it and thinking, wow, people. They would actually get up on stage in front of everybody and speak. That's crazy. See, now I was I was still scared back then, even though I lived my life in my protected little environment. Well, now I'm outside that playing with the big wigs, and I was scared.

Speaker4: But anyway something came to me, and I just kept in my room that week, and, you know, we, you know, see yourself doing it. Practice. And I would walk in my room and go, hi, my name is Charlie Collins and pretend I was speaking to the group. And then by the last day he said, okay, by lunch is the last time you can put something in the jug. So if you want to be possibly chosen. So I finally ripped out, I had a notebook with legal size paper in it, and I wrote, you know, hey, Jack, it's Charlie Collins. This is why I think you should pick me. And then I folded it up, and I lifted everything in there, and I hid it in the bottom, and then I an hour we went to lunch, and I said, what did I do? I started sweating, I ran back into the room to find that jug and rip my paper out, and it was gone. I said, oh my God. And I panicked. And then the next day the conference started. He picked, he said, all right, we're going to pick the two speakers. And he said, speaker number one. The guy was great. He had a knife in his chest ready to pull it in, and I'm like, whoa.

Speaker4: He was so good. And I remember thinking, oh my God, I would never want to be the one going after this guy. And then we're sitting there and he goes, all right, our next guy is Charlie Collins. And I went, there better be another one here. And the people are poking me next to me because we all become friends. You know, we worked in groups and we all grew together. It was a wild experience. And I'm there like, that's you. I'm like, oh, God, I gotta get out of here. And my knees, my legs were shaking. I'm holding my hands and wiggling fast. Like, like ridiculously. I couldn't even control it. And the guys miking me up, he's like, don't worry, it's going to be fine. I said, easy for you to say. I'm the one walking out on stage. And you know, this is where I. I heard the teachings and I just stepped into it. I leaned into it and I said, what's the worst that can happen? These people want me to. I was the only visually impaired person in the whole place, and they didn't treat me any different. They let me sit up front. They asked me, is there anything we can do for you? Only because I said, I need some reasonable accommodations. And they were met and exceeded.

Speaker4: So I had no excuses. I wanted this, my flow in life, my path was going that way and this was it. So I got up and did my speech and I got a standing ovation from over 400 people. It was the weirdest feeling. I'm thinking, sit down, this is so uncomfortable. I'm, you know, and then at the end, they gave me feedback and criticism and feedback and all that. And that was a little hard. I'm like, this is my first time. Anyway. But at the end, Kirk and this is what this is where the neat part is. Instead of walking off to the left of the stage where the stairs were, I walked right to the edge of the front and did this like a momentum of my body, and flailed my arms like I was walking off the front of the stage as a blind guy, and I was going to land on the people in front of me. They all screamed and jumped up, and I pointed and went, gotcha! I was just messing around. I realized I had a very big, playful side that was not afraid to come out in a room full of people I didn't know. And the place went berserk. And people to this day know me as the dude that freaked him out, almost stepping off the stage.

Speaker4: And I've been in presentations with 3400 people. I jump off the front of the stage and land right in front of the front row. So you know, I I learned principles of success, whether it's believing in yourself, leaning into asking for help. I went from a go getter in life to a go giver. I know there's a book by that. And I met him in a Jack Canfield conference. I'm like, hey, I've been using that. Not fair. And then he became one of the speakers in our in our summit. But that is what happened to me was I these guiding principles, I would come back to my company and we would do weekly trainings on them and about taking responsibility, about going the extra mile, all these neat things that I didn't learn in the 12 years of school I had. Because not only were my eyes not working that well, but neither were my ears. So that's what we did. And Kristin and I just we just partnered it, and I said, let's let we talked about let's come together. Let's take turn it into an academy and a place where we can bring people in, let them know they're not alone, and let them know that they have the power to succeed. They just got to remove their blind spots and we can help them get there.

Speaker2: So give us give us the thriving Blind Academy brochure. If people become involved with the Academy, blind people, families with blind kids who, who, whoever can benefit, what, what do they get? What do you do for them?

Speaker3: Well, you just heard tell Charlie went from where he was at in life and took that one step to go to that conference, just not knowing how it was going to go. And that's exactly what we do in the academy. People can come in from wherever they are on the journey. We have folks that just got the diagnosis for their four month old baby And reached out. And we have folks that have had a very successful life. All of a sudden their vision has dropped off more. They don't know where they're going to go now. And they come in. And then we have folks like Clark Reynolds, who was believing in himself, believing his whole life was possible. The entire town in his London town said, absolutely not. You can't be a blind artist. He came in to said, hey, I think that I can. Do you guys think that I can too? And can you help me get there? So it's like the whole gamut of where people are in, in their journey with blindness. And we do all of what Charlie just said. Jack Canfield does in breakthrough for success, we build community. You, Kirk, you mentioned that that every week anyone that signs up for the newsletter gets the five to thrive to start their week in a thriving mindset. But the best part is our members come in every Monday to that, to a one hour community call where we break down, Charlie and I break down whatever that element of the Thriver formula is that we're focusing on that week, and then it's open community talk.

Speaker3: People share stories about we kind of start out on the on that letter of the Thriver formula and the coaching and then have some examples and then it just goes off from there. And we have had folks that like Clark, he was doing really well and he was so successful, came through our mastermind programs and we have a whole online portal of masterclasses and, and the summit recordings and all of that. He was doing great, very successful. And then all of a sudden he met this huge barrier and challenge. And in one of our community calls on Monday, he said to the group, listen. And he's a mentor in our community. And he said, I am really struggling. I don't know how to take the next step on my journey of where I'm going with all of this. I've had so much success, but I've got this barrier because I just lost a ton more vision and I can't figure out how to do stuff at the different galleries and the whole community. I mean, it's one of my most favorite moments in all of the time that we've been doing this, people were people that never talk because a lot of people leave their camera off and just listen to the community share stories. They were turning cameras on, people were cheering him on. People were giving him a little tough love. Charlie was nudging him a little bit like, hey, maybe you should go about it this way. And after 20 minutes, Clark was back up to his high and getting back out there in the world. And then he ended up winning a medal from the Queen.

Speaker3: And I was like, if you if everyone came into our academy, you'd win a medal from the Queen. But to be very specific, and I will say this is one of the things we wanted to talk with you about, Kirk. And you probably realize this. We are very different. We do. We are ones that in this community, as opposed to pretty much everybody else, that gives everything away for free because they believe that that people that are blind deserve to have all free services. We say invest in yourself, invest in your child, invest in your family. Invest in the future that you want to design for yourself. And for a $97 membership fee for an entire year, the entire family can come in because, as you know, it's not just the one person. For the most part, it's their circle of people, whether they're going to be held back or not. But we do we do look for we got a lot of pushback on that investment, and Charlie and I stayed strong on that. And I'll tell you, the people that that are investing in themselves and their families, they show up. They do the work. Not that it's not that we give a ton of work. We do. They do some stuff before the next thing they join the master classes. You know, they're there for the entire time of the Succeed Without Site Summit Live, even though they get the recordings Wordings. Right? It's a it's a very different it's one little switch that has such huge results.

Speaker2: And how do people connect with the thriving blind Academy?

Speaker3: Well, as Charlie has on his screen, thriving blind academy org.

Speaker2: That is so easy to remember.

Speaker3: Yeah.

Speaker5: That's great. Let's see it. Well.

Speaker4: The little thing I have on the screen and Kristin, you mentioned want to mention this quick. The you said the thrive, the T and all that. But for those of you who don't know in Thriver is a is the principle formula the word and we.

Speaker5: Let's hear it.

Speaker2: Let's do it.

Speaker5: All right.

Speaker4: So t is tools. And that can be all sorts of tools. Anything and everything inside the industry, outside the industry. But the main tool that we focus on too is the mindset is the mind tool, because then all the other tools we need in our lives are just we attract them easier and we form a relationship and use them better when we don't fight. And then the next one is H. And that's handi capable. And even though in golf handicapped is positive. In our community, we, we move to what's possible. Belief in yourself. Belief that you can do it. And then there is responsibility. That wasn't my favorite one in the beginning. My. I used to hear that from my parents. You need to take more responsibility. I don't even know what you're talking about. Bye bye. And it's this that I'm no longer going to blame. Complain. I'm no longer going to rationalize why I behave that way or justify why I'm being a jerk. I'm not going to make excuses anymore, and I'm not going to figure that out immediately. But over time, I'm going to step into somebody who takes 100% responsibility for my life and the results of my life, because they are it is because of the way I think and do so that one is critical. We really focus in that one a lot. And Kristin, what have we got after the R?

Speaker3: So then it's the eye for independence and interdependence. Those are always exciting conversations in our Monday calls that we have every week, because it's that balance of being independent, but also knowing when to ask for help. And one of our members, Corey, who's a retired TVI, talks about if you to be independent, a child cannot be parent impaired. And she goes on about that. It's too fun. So knowing when to ask for help and then it's always the hilarious stories of Mitchell, who thinks that it's just, you know, it's so easy to ask for help because all these people just want to serve him. Look at how happy it makes them. So we also have to tweak that a little bit. Independence and interdependence. And then one that I've just really started embracing and diving into these past couple of months is value. The V stands for value. And what I realized is, you know, we talk about people that and Kirk especially I mean you look on your LinkedIn and it's all about the value of being inclusive, the value that a person that is blind and lives differently and accesses differently brings to the world. Right? And we're always talking about that. I've taught my boys that forever. What I didn't realize, though, was when Michael wasn't getting hired, coming out of Penn State summa cum laude, he wasn't necessarily communicating his value in the interviews and communicating, you know, not worrying about whether am I going to disclose, not disclose, fully disclosing because he's like, listen to how I've accessed the world and how I can add value to your company.

Speaker3: That's when he got hired, right? So values become a big one that we talk about. E and then there's the emotion part. And that's another thing. Charlie was actually the one that was really bringing this to light in a lot of our conversations, because we cycle through the Thrive or formula every six weeks about the power of emotion and families talking about the emotions. I mean, you heard his story. He had all of that, not wanting to talk about the emotions around all of this. And then Charlie's favorite, the final R, is risk taking. And those conversations you can imagine where some of some of the trails that that Charlie takes us down in the risk taking conversations. But the importance of taking a risk to be able to go in the direction of thriving and designing the life that you want, not what someone else has determined should be.

Speaker4: We'll never get there without taking that risk. And, Kirk, we got a member. His name is Eric, and he took a risk. One day, a branch was pissing him off because on the sidewalk. So he walked out of his house with a chainsaw and cut it down, and he's blind.

Speaker5: There you go. I know I.

Speaker2: Learned a new I learned a new term. This week I was contacted by Vanderbilt University. They have a federal grant to work on school, to work transition for blind youth. And they're preparing trainings for parents. And they asked if I would be willing to record a short video clip about the dignity of risk and how if you don't let your kids take risks, you're taking away their dignity as developing human beings. So I.

Speaker5: Love.

Speaker2: It. I like it, too. So.

Speaker5: Well.

Speaker4: Kirk, when Kristin said that as we as visually impaired children. I'm not anymore. But growing up, are we on our backs are the expectations of our parents. But you know what else is on the back of many kids that I worked with over the years is they're taking on the parents fear the parent is without the kid, without not saying it, but the parent doesn't want them to fail or be embarrassed or and I always teach. The only way they're going to make it is if all that happens and it's going to. You can't shelter them from it, and they know you're trying to protect them and they you enabling is disabling. So let them fall. Let them fail a little. That'll trigger the mind that they have to get to work to start building their.

Speaker5: Plan.

Speaker4: Of action.

Speaker2: So this was a phrase that was drilled into me 55 plus years ago at the Oregon State School for the blind. They said all the time, we don't pad corners. We don't pad corners here. Corners are.

Speaker5: Sharp. Yes.

Speaker2: They exist. You gotta learn how to deal with the world with a lot of sharp corners. And we're not going to pad the corners for you.

Speaker5: I would, I would have.

Speaker3: Known that from you, because.

Speaker5: Michael.

Speaker3: Hit a corner in my house and popped a hole in his forehead.

Speaker2: Well, the forehead is where you get it the most. Kristin.

Speaker3: Yeah, I.

Speaker5: Know.

Speaker2: And I, I also tell parents of blind kids you can measure how well you're doing by how many times you gotta go to the emergency room. So we have just sped through an hour together. I do want to go a little bit over, because there is a particularly awesome opportunity for 100 young, blind people to accelerate their journey into independence and thriving. That's coming up. And, Kristin, if you could give the headline of that and how people who are interested can connect with you.

Speaker3: Yeah. So again, it's thriving. Blind academy org. You can go right to the homepage and on the top left you'll see the giant button for the Thrive Blind mentor program. You know, like I said, we built the thrive formula on experience with blind kids and the EC and IEPs and all that. But we wanted to bring in with the real world. Everybody else success is and that was the success principles. Now we've got this partnership with the Grant Cardone Foundation, who is the Bazillionaire that teaches kids and adults. The adults pay upwards of 5000 to $50,000 to come into his workshops about leadership, financial literacy. Right. All of these key things that, you know, I looked at it and it was our friend Michael Patel that had told me about this. And when I looked at the program, I said, wow, they're doing this for Are thousands of at risk youth in Florida because Grant believes that all youth deserve these skills. Right. And I was like, why do we always have, you know, all at risk, all disability? And then the blind kids are kind of off on their own. Nobody thinks about that. They should be included in this too. And when I asked the Cardone Foundation that they were like, I don't know, no one's ever asked that. No one's ever come to us.

Speaker3: Sure, we'll do it. So it is the regular skills of financial literacy and leadership that make for successful entrepreneurs, future leaders, all of the things that these kids are going to be immersed in for a full day. And then we're doing the evening before because Charlie and I don't do anything if it's not fun. Like, yes, we are all about learning, teaching, coaching. But if it's not fun, we're not signing up. So we're making it super fun the night before where everybody's coming in, we actually have 11 states. People were coming in from 11 states, not just Florida. Now up to join us, get to know each other. A little bit of exercises around the Thriver formula, but really just building community. Actually, we already had one zoom call with a bunch of the early responders and registrations. And I can tell you, Kirk, it is like these kids, you know, a lot of them were sitting with their parents and they were probably the parents sign them up and said, you are going to do this whether you like it or not. And then as they were meeting each other and hearing each other, even just on the introductions, you could tell all the smiles started like, oh, this is going to be fun, right? So it's a day and a half in the Miami area where we'll all be hanging out at the hotel for the evening prior and then all going together to Grant Cardone's headquarters in Miami and learning from his coaches, mentors, all of these things.

Speaker3: But the cool thing is that they're allowing us to do that. I don't even want to say allowing that they're excited about that's different from any other workshop that they do. We've got a panel of people that are living with blindness and low vision, succeeding without sight, that are going to end the day in a way that says everything you just learned today. Here's how I've done that in my life living with vision loss. Because we don't want these kids leaving saying, well, that was great for people that can see. But you know, those complaining, blaming and all those excuses. So it'll be a really nice send off. But the coolest thing of all of it is then they're in our. This includes because of sponsorships. These kids will all then become members in the academy and have the opportunity to come into our Monday mentor calls and then specific calls just for that group to stay in touch with all of the lessons that Grant taught. They get access to his whole online platform in addition to the thriving blind platform.

Speaker2: What ages? What ages are we looking for?

Speaker3: 15 to 21.

Speaker2: 15 to 21. You have room for 100 blind young people age 15 to 21 for a amazing. Perhaps once in a lifetime opportunity. So w-w-w dot org, the giant mentor program, but. So that's where you find that. And finally, way, way back at the beginning of chapter two you asked the doctor, how is Michael going to play baseball? And they said, no, he's not going to be able to play baseball. And I believe he did play baseball very successfully. And I know you're making you're making a film having participating, having a Hollywood level box office film made. And I just proudly made a pledge and got my digital baseball jersey, which I posted on my social media. But give us give us about a minute on the curve ball.

Speaker3: Yeah. Curve ball. And thank you for for adding to the being part of the team Kirk curve ball.

Speaker5: Is they're calling it my jersey.

Speaker3: You know that's my favorite number. I was like oh how did he get 11. And I didn't. But they're calling curve ball the next Erin Brockovich. And honestly, I had always wanted to tell this story on the big screen because like I said, it was Hollywood that gave me the horrible story of blindness. So I wanted to change, use Hollywood to change what they were delivering as the story of blindness. When I saw Michael's championship baseball season unfold. Because if you can imagine walking up to a baseball field with the kid with the white cane, parents, of course, are insanely competitive. They don't want any perceived disadvantage, even though all of their kids were ten and terrible. There wasn't a really great, talented player on that team, The boys did not want anyone with a perceived disadvantage, you know. They all want to win and whatever. So we were not very welcome. Michael didn't care. Michael he can. Don't even think about that. He sees that people are disinterested. He can hear when people are disinterested before I can even see it. He didn't care he was going to go and play baseball. But I did not just walk up there saying, my kid's going to play baseball. He played blind sports and we played in the backyard. He was a good baseball player. So anyway, nobody wanted him on that team. They were afraid of me, I think.

Speaker3: So they said yes. And the kids lost every single game. But little by little, and like my Charlie mentioned reasonable accommodations. We asked for two accommodations. They were met, and little by little, the team started to have more and more teamwork with Michael at the helm of that, they didn't want to work with Michael in the outfield. Then they went to fighting over who got to work with Michael in the outfield. And lo and behold, they end up in the playoffs after losing every game and go on to win the championship in extra innings against the first place team. It is the incredible story of when you put your bias aside. Give every kid an opportunity with accommodations that are reasonable. The incredible, incredible advantages that happen when full inclusion is there. I always wanted to tell that story. My director, who I went to with the story, he said, Kristin, how did he get to be able to do all that? Who got him into the public school? Who gave him the tools? You have to tell the mom story your journey to. So it's both. It's parallel stories in one big feature film. And actually now the byline for it is Erin Brockovich meets Rocky, and they put a film together, something like that. And it's up for best screenplay in Hollywood. I'm going out there in two weeks.

Speaker2: Nice, nice. And if people want to support the film, where do they go?

Speaker3: The easiest way is Kristin Smedley.

Speaker5: Okay.

Speaker3: Kristin with an I in.

Speaker5: Okay.

Speaker4: It was about a year until you told me I was spelling your name wrong.

Speaker5: Well, Charlie.

Speaker2: Final. Final thoughts?

Speaker4: Now, this has been great. I enjoyed sharing and being connected to people like you and, of course, Kristin that are, you know, we're all out when we're not together. We're doing what we just did.

Speaker5: Right.

Speaker2: And join me next month. It's the last Thursday of the month. It is at 11 p.m. 11 p.m. no, 11 a.m. Pacific. Supercharge your bottom line through disability inclusion. If you want to get in touch with me, my website is www.com.com. And thank you everybody who is viewing this webinar. And thank you so much Charlie. Thank you so much Kristin with an I n appreciate you both so much and glad our paths keep crossing and recrossing.

Speaker5: Excellent.

Speaker2: Good care.

Speaker5: Thanks, Kirk.

Speaker4: Bye bye.

Speaker1: Thank you for listening to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a review at WW. Com. Together we can amplify these voices and create positive change. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning and keep making an impact.