'We want to open a new chapter in German-French relations': Germany's Europe minister

Talking Europe

We speak to Germany's Minister of State for Europe, Gunther Krichbaum, on the day that NATO leaders convened for a crunch summit in The Hague that approved a higher defence spending target of 5 percent of GDP. Krichbaum argues that the current "irritations" in the transatlantic relationship make it even more important for Europe to define its own interests, especially in defence policy. A staunch Francophile and French speaker, Krichbaum argues that it is time for Germany and France to find a consensus and an atmosphere of trust. "This is now the new dimension of French-German relations," he states.

While relations with France under the previous German government of Olaf Scholz were sometimes strained, Krichbaum suggests that things are changing under the new chancellor, Friedrich Merz. "It's no secret that we had different opinions between France and Germany in the past," Krichbaum says. "But the decisive point is that we have to finally find a consensus and to have an atmosphere of trust. And this, I think, is now the new dimension of French-German relations. We are not only opening a new page. We want to open a new chapter in German-French relations. But I think the instruments we have are sufficient. We don't need more common debts in Europe because the national states have a responsibility for their own national budgets." Krichbaum certainly does not exclude more European investment, but he says that "we should always take into account that we have to guarantee fair conditions between the generations. So that means not making more debts, more debts, more debts, but also thinking about the next generation, because this [debt] has to be paid back one day."

On NATO and European defence, Krichbaum asserts that "Europe has to stay together; it has to define its own interest. And especially in defence politics." The German government is planning to invest "3.5 percent of GDP directly for defence, and 1.5 percent for infrastructure, which helps to achieve the goals we have in common. This is ambitious, and it cannot be reached within the next year or in 2027. But finally it's a target, and it should be achieved together. Germany did not realise the 2 percent targets a few years ago, but I think the challenges are enormously high, and without security, we can do nothing in the world, nothing in Europe and nothing in Germany."

Recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin warned Berlin not to supply Taurus cruise missiles to Ukraine, while also saying that he is open to talking to the German chancellor. Krichbaum says that he personally was "always in favour of delivering Taurus, because it's necessary that Ukraine can defend itself. The United States wants to withdraw more and more from Ukraine because they concentrate more on the future on the Pacific. On China, Taiwan and the whole area. And so we have to concentrate on our task. And that means [supporting] Ukraine as a European country." He clarifies that no decision on Taurus has been made by the German government so far, but adds that "in the past we were transparent and so Putin could react because he knew at each stage what Europe will do next, what Germany will do next. And this transparency is not helpful".

Finally, asked about Berlin's steadfast support for Israel and the US in the conflict with Iran, Krichbaum asserts: "Nobody can live in peace thinking that the [Iranian] mullah regime has a nuclear weapon. So I would dare to say that if it was possible to destroy all the plants, the enrichment plants in Iran, then I think this is a contribution to more security, not only for the region, but for the world. And now it is also necessary to find further solutions in negotiations."

Programme prepared by Isabelle Romero, Perrine Desplats and Luke Brown