Ep 15: Soft Skills: The Skills No One Teaches (but everyone needs)

The Messy Middle Matters

#Careers #Business #People, Process, Things

32:48

America’s Sweethearts: Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders is back for its second season! Kay Adams welcomes the women who assemble the squad, Kelli Finglass and Judy Trammell, to the Netflix Sports Club Podcast. They discuss the emotional rollercoaster of putting together the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. Judy and Kelli open up about what it means to embrace flaws in the pursuit of perfection, how they identify that winning combo of stamina and wow factor, and what it’s like to see Thunderstruck go viral. Plus, the duo shares their hopes for the future of DCC beyond the field. Netflix Sports Club Podcast Correspondent Dani Klupenger also stops by to discuss the NBA Finals, basketball’s biggest moments with Michael Jordan and LeBron, and Kevin Durant’s international dominance. Dani and Kay detail the rise of Coco Gauff’s greatness and the most exciting storylines heading into Wimbledon. We want to hear from you! Leave us a voice message at www.speakpipe.com/NetflixSportsClub Find more from the Netflix Sports Club Podcast @NetflixSports on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and X. You can catch Kay Adams @heykayadams and Dani Klupenger @daniklup on IG and X. Be sure to follow Kelli Finglass and Judy Trammel @kellifinglass and @dcc_judy on IG. Hosted by Kay Adams, the Netflix Sports Club Podcast is an all-access deep dive into the Netflix Sports universe! Each episode, Adams will speak with athletes, coaches, and a rotating cycle of familiar sports correspondents to talk about a recently released Netflix Sports series. The podcast will feature hot takes, deep analysis, games, and intimate conversations. Be sure to watch, listen, and subscribe to the Netflix Sports Club Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Tudum, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes on Fridays every other week.…

about a year ago 25:11

MP3•Episode home

From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in high-stakes moments... and why most training programs barely scratch the surface.
They share real talk on:

Whether soft skills are innate or learned
Why these abilities require practice, not just theory
How to start small and build confidence in safe spaces
And how to listen to podcasts, panels, or even reality shows with a soft-skills lens

This episode is a reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t fluff—it’s foundational. And like any skill, it can be trained, strengthened, and occasionally pulled in for emergency use.

Useful Links:

The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

20 episodes

Ep 15: Soft Skills: The Skills No One Teaches (but everyone needs)

The Messy Middle Matters

published about a year ago

MP3•Episode home

Whether soft skills are innate or learned
Why these abilities require practice, not just theory
How to start small and build confidence in safe spaces
And how to listen to podcasts, panels, or even reality shows with a soft-skills lens

This episode is a reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t fluff—it’s foundational. And like any skill, it can be trained, strengthened, and occasionally pulled in for emergency use.

Useful Links:

The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

20 episodes

#Careers #Business #People, Process, Things

All episodes

1
Ep 20: More Than a Resume: Building Your Digital Presence 33:33

7 days ago33:33

33:33

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters , Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee delve into the evolving landscape of personal branding, beginning with the notion that LinkedIn is no longer just a digital resume. From resharing posts to publishing thought leadership, today’s professionals are expected to build a visible, credible presence that extends far beyond job titles and bullet points. They reflect on the growing pressure to “show your work” online, how social algorithms shape visibility, and why blogging, podcasting, and even experimenting with AI can become practical tools in your branding toolkit. They also speak candidly about how hard it is to maintain a consistent presence—especially when you're already stretched thin—and why giving yourself grace matters just as much as hitting publish. Whether you’re just starting to show up online or trying to find your rhythm again, this episode offers both commiseration and encouragement. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: http://bit.ly/448qQxm Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://bit.ly/3ZVuFn7…

1
Ep 19: The Craft of Meeting Notes 33:15

14 days ago33:15

33:15

Taking notes isn’t always busywork; it can be a power move. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the underrated but essential skill of effective note-taking in the workplace. They reflect on how their own approach has evolved from admin duty to strategic tool and explore why the person writing the notes often holds more influence than you think. From capturing decisions to controlling narratives, they share tactical advice on building a taxonomy, structuring your notes, and knowing what not to include. Whether you're tired of always being “the note taker” or looking to use your notes to drive strategy, this episode will shift how you see the role and the value it brings. They also get real about AI tools, human nuance, and how to set yourself and your team up for success in the messy middle of meetings. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: http://bit.ly/448qQxm Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://bit.ly/3ZVuFn7…

1
Ep 18: The Meeting About the Meeting About the Meeting 33:06

21 days ago33:06

33:06

We've all been there—staring at a calendar invite with a cryptic title and no context, then spending the meeting trying to figure out why you're even there. In this episode, Indra and Amanda tackle the all-too-familiar plague of purposeless meetings. From weekly leadership check-ins to post-meeting debriefs about the next meeting, they unpack the hidden cost of unclear gatherings: time, energy, morale, and productivity. They also offer practical tips for spotting meetings that should never happen—and tools to make the ones that do more effective and engaging. Whether you love a good working session or loathe yet another calendar clog, this one's for you. Let’s stop gathering without a goal. Useful Links: Meeting Design (book): https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/meeting-design/ Fixable Episode featuring Priya Parker from May 12, 2025 (podcast episode): https://podcasts.apple.com/zw/podcast/how-to-fix-meetings-w-master-fixer-priya-parker/id1677016372?i=1000708057390 The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker: https://www.priyaparker.com/book-art-of-gathering Lean Coffee (a methodology for meetings that do not have a structure): https://agilecoffee.com/leancoffee/ The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: http://bit.ly/448qQxm Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://bit.ly/3ZVuFn7…

1
Ep 17: Titles Matter 28:58

28 days ago28:58

28:58

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the complex role of titles and credentials in professional life. From HRIS databases that never quite get it right to the very real ways marginalized folks use credentials as armor, this conversation explores how titles are used, misused, and misunderstood. They explore how titles can signal authority, invite (or block) collaboration, and even become tools of gatekeeping. You'll hear insights on how to navigate the mismatch between internal job classifications and your public-facing identity, the difference between strategic self-representation and rigid hierarchy, and why titles never tell the whole story—but still matter deeply. Whether you're a people leader trying to make equitable org charts, or someone trying to translate your experience for a new industry, this episode offers clarity, nuance, and maybe even a little permission to rewrite your title on your own terms. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 16: Not Everything is a Zero-Sum Game 30:50

5 weeks ago30:50

30:50

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets—starting with a “zero-sum game” pizza analogy (yes, pizza 🍕). They explore how our beliefs about resources, success, and competition shape how we lead, collaborate, and show up in the world. Drawing on The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, Indra shares how this framework helps leaders break out of short-term, win-or-lose thinking and into a more sustainable, collective approach. Amanda adds insights on how abundance isn’t about being naïve—it’s about being curious, strategic, and generous, even in high-pressure environments. Whether you're navigating workplace dynamics, managing a team, or just trying to break free of zero-sum thinking, this episode offers real tools for shifting your mindset—and helping others shift theirs. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 15: Soft Skills: The Skills No One Teaches (but everyone needs) 25:11

6 weeks ago25:11

25:11

Soft skills: everyone talks about them, few people define them, and even fewer get help building them. In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the nuanced world of interpersonal and emotional intelligence—the unspoken skills that make or break how we collaborate, lead, and show up at work. From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in high-stakes moments... and why most training programs barely scratch the surface. They share real talk on: Whether soft skills are innate or learned Why these abilities require practice, not just theory How to start small and build confidence in safe spaces And how to listen to podcasts, panels, or even reality shows with a soft-skills lens This episode is a reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t fluff—it’s foundational. And like any skill, it can be trained, strengthened, and occasionally pulled in for emergency use. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 14: Getting Stuff Done: The Value of Project & Program Professionals 30:51

7 weeks ago30:51

30:51

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters , Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences. This episode defines the distinctions between PM roles and highlights the invisible, high-impact work they do, like change management, stakeholder alignment, and process improvement. It challenges the myth that PMs are just about checklists. Indra and Amanda also share how these roles are evolving, the communities shifting the conversation, and why investing in strong PMs is investing in your company’s ability to deliver. Useful Links: Generalist World: https://www.generalist.world/ Designops Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/company/designops-assembly Levels of Program & Operations Management: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17C_0-ITv4Sh3baLtnILEgImAEftDnd1uUjHo4Hpycss/edit?usp=sharing The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 13: Why Outsiders Can Say the Quiet Thing Out Loud 22:58

8 weeks ago22:58

22:58

Sometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through the noise. Through real-world examples from their careers, they highlight: The benefits of outsider objectivity and “fresh eyes” When and how to bring in external voices for maximum impact The risks and resentments that can arise in these dynamics Practical tips for using consultants without eroding team trust. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 12: Icebreakers: Creating Space for Connection 22:38

9 weeks ago22:38

22:38

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters , Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful world of icebreakers, those sometimes awkward, sometimes delightful moments that set the tone for team connection. Whether you're leading a virtual kickoff, hosting a new hire orientation, or just trying to get humans to look each other in the eyes, the right icebreaker can ease social anxiety, build rapport, and foster inclusive environments. They explore: Why icebreakers matter (even for well-established teams) What makes an icebreaker effective, and what makes it flounder Tips for adapting to different personalities, cultures, and formats Their favorite (and least favorite) icebreakers How to avoid common pitfalls and keep it purposeful If you're leading teams or planning meetings, this one's for you. It’s all about creating small moments that invite human connection, without forcing it. Useful Links: Where Should We Begin - A Game of Stories Pro tip: remove the NSFW cards https://game.estherperel.com/products/where-should-we-begin-a-game-of-stories-2nd-edition We’re Not Really Strangers https://www.werenotreallystrangers.com/ Be Plucky - 1:1 Cards Pro tip: The Mentor pack is Indra’s favorite for ice breakers About the cards: https://www.beplucky.com/category/11cards/ Buy the cards: https://shop.beplucky.com/ So… a collection of questions for deeper discussions https://www.socards.org/ Creative Sprint Card Deck Can be leveraged for icebreakers; especially good for creative teams https://www.anotherlimitedrebellion.com/the-creative-sprint-card-deck Gamestorming Great resource for frameworks for business problem solving. Some can be simplified rather easily Site: https://gamestorming.com/ Book: https://a.co/d/hobgwn2 The Messy Middle Matters Merch shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 11: The Serious Case for Not Taking Everything So Seriously 21:42

10 weeks ago21:42

21:42

Is it possible that the secret to better teamwork, sharper ideas, and a more connected workplace is... play? In this episode, Indra and Amanda bust the myth that work and play are opposites. They explore how introducing moments of levity, whether it’s custom Slack emojis, playful team names, or low-stakes laughter, can actually deepen collaboration, trust, and creativity. They break down the different types of play that can live comfortably (and appropriately) in professional settings, and offer guidance on how to bring joy into work without crossing the line into "mandatory fun." Whether you're leading a team or just trying to make your next meeting feel less like a root canal, this conversation invites you to rethink what productivity can look like, when you add a little play to the mix. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 10: Context Matters: The Power of Clarifying Questions 20:18

11 weeks ago20:18

20:18

"I know what that word means… but what do you mean by it?" In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters , Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful skill of asking clarifying questions. Whether it's untangling workplace jargon, bridging communication gaps, or just making sure everyone’s on the same page, asking for context can transform how teams collaborate. We explore the importance of shared understanding, the art of curiosity without judgment, and the sneaky barriers that keep people from speaking up. From why writing things down can make ideas more accessible to how fear of being wrong stops us from asking for clarity, this episode is a reminder that meaning isn’t universal and questions aren’t weakness, they’re wisdom. Useful Links: Jeff Patton’s Illustrations for Shared Understanding: https://images.app.goo.gl/88HDkJVwpqHWvPvs7 The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 09: Work Doesn’t Happen in a Vacuum: Navigating Challenging Times Together 25:59

12 weeks ago25:59

25:59

What happens when life outside the office becomes impossible to ignore? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, we explore what it means to be human at work, particularly during personal, local, or global crises. From the ongoing effects of the pandemic to sudden personal emergencies, Indra and Amanda explore how leaders and employees alike can demonstrate empathy, set realistic expectations, and foster cultures that prioritize people over productivity. This is a conversation about acknowledging reality, embracing flexibility, and navigating that murky space between personal and professional life without losing sight of our humanity. Useful Links: The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 08: Boxes, Biases & Breakthroughs: Navigating Self-Assessments at Work 29:27

13 weeks ago29:27

29:27

n this episode of The Messy Middle Matters , Indra and Amanda unpack the world of self-assessments. Whether they’re assigned to us by HR or are one of those eerily specific online quizzes we can’t help but take, they explore the pros and cons of personality and performance evaluations, sharing personal stories and asking: When do these tools help us grow? And when do they box us in? The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 07: Knowledge Hoarding vs. Sharing: Finding the Right Balance 34:16

14 weeks ago34:16

34:16

In this episode, Indra and Amanda break down workplace information dynamics, exploring why some people cling to knowledge, others freely share it, and some strategically keep certain details close to the chest. They unpack the motivations behind each approach, the impact on team dynamics, and how to find a balance that fosters trust while maintaining healthy boundaries. Plus, they finally explain their matching sweatshirts. Spoiler alert: It’s all about setting limits when you’re the go-to person for answers. Tune in to reflect on your own information-sharing style and learn small shifts that can lead to big workplace improvements. Useful Links: Don't Make Me Regret Sweatshirts, etc.: shop.themessymiddlematters.com/collections/dont-make-me-regret Lucy van Pelt - Peanuts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Van_Pelt The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

1
Ep 06: People Management: Not Just a Step Up, A Career Shift 28:59

15 weeks ago28:59

28:59

Being good at your job doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be good at managing people. So why do so many companies treat management as the default next step? In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the myths and realities of people management—why some folks are promoted before they’re ready, what actually makes a great leader, and why management isn’t just a promotion but an entirely different job. They explore the essential skills needed to succeed, the emotional labor of leadership, and alternative career paths for those who want to grow without managing people. Thinking about stepping into management? Already dealing with a less-than-stellar boss? Either way, this episode is for you! Useful Links Register for the May/June So Now You’re a Manager (SNYAM) Workshop with Jen Dary: https://www.beplucky.com/pluckyevents/so-now-youre-a-manager-may-june-2025/ Coaching with Indra: https://www.peopleprocessthings.com/coaching The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

The Messy Middle Matters

1
Ep 05: Feedback Fatigue 34:49

16 weeks ago34:49

34:49

These days, feedback is everywhere. But are we benefiting from it, or are we just drowning in a sea of unsolicited opinions and HR-driven surveys? In this episode, Indra and Amanda dive into the feedback frenzy: how social media and corporate feedback tools have fueled a culture of constant evaluation, the unintended consequences of feedback overload, and the real cost of all these mandatory feedback programs. They also break down practical ways to filter out the noise, differentiate between helpful and unhelpful feedback, and give feedback in a way that supports growth. If you’ve ever rolled your eyes at yet another feedback request, this episode is for you! Useful Links Five questions to ensure your feedback is a gift https://medium.com/@indrapendence/five-questions-to-ensure-your-feedback-is-a-gift-11063f69c925 Brené Brown’s talk featuring Teddy Roosevelt’s Man In the Arena quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-JXOnFOXQk The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

The Messy Middle Matters

1
Ep 04: Making the Invisible Work Count (Glue Work) 26:36

17 weeks ago26:36

26:36

Some work is easy to measure—deadlines met, projects delivered, goals achieved. But what about the work that holds everything together? In this episode, Indra and Amanda discuss their journey of recognizing Glue Work, the often invisible tasks that keep teams functioning but rarely get acknowledged. They share how naming this work was a crucial first step and explore strategies to make it visible, valued, and recognized as a part of career growth. This is just the beginning of a much bigger conversation, because no one should have to choose between doing the work that keeps teams thriving and advancing in their careers. Helpful Links For more about the Glue Work Framework, including upcoming webinars: www.thegluework.com or https://www.peopleprocessthings.com/glue-work Indra's latest blog post about the Glue Work Framework: https://medium.com/@indrapendence/making-the-invisible-work-count-1f7dcb9f794c The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for Indra & Amanda: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

The Messy Middle Matters

1
Ep 03: The Overdiagnosis of Impostor Syndrome 24:05

18 weeks ago24:05

24:05

Impostor syndrome is often framed as an internal struggle, but what if the real issue isn’t impostor syndrome, but something else? In this episode, Indra and Amanda explore the fine line between impostor syndrome and the discomfort of learning something new. They also share a real-life workplace experience where they initially thought they were battling self-doubt—only to uncover a deeper, systemic issue at play. They walk through how they gathered the right people, documented the challenge, and ultimately realized the problem wasn’t what it seemed. Join us as we discuss the power of reframing workplace struggles and why caring for the collective leads to better outcomes for everyone. Things mentioned in our episode: Glossary of Terms It's Great to Suck at Surfing Feedback…

The Messy Middle Matters

1
Ep 02: Words Matter 34:39

19 weeks ago34:39

34:39

The way we define and communicate ideas—whether through common language, acronyms, or company-specific terms—shapes how we work together. Without a shared vocabulary, teams risk misalignment, confusion, and even chaos. In this episode, we explore why shared understanding is foundational to navigating the messy middle. We’ll dig deeper into what the messy middle really means and why it deserves an entire podcast. When we can name and define the challenges we face, we gain the clarity needed to move forward—together. Join us as we unpack the power of language, alignment, and shared meaning in the moments that matter most. Useful Links: Words Matter Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com/collections/words-matter The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback…

The Messy Middle Matters

1
Ep 01: Welcome to The Messy Middle 12:56

19 weeks ago12:56