Cleaner, cheaper, smarter: Ontario’s Save on Energy framework explained

ThinkEnergy

What does Ontario’s new 12-year Save on Energy framework mean for homeowners, businesses, and the future of energy in Canada? Learn how the program supports smarter grid planning and energy use, lowers emissions, improves affordability, and helps Ontarians make the switch to cleaner technologies. Tam Wagner from the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) joins thinkenergy to explain why conservation is a critical tool in Canada’s transition to clean energy. Listen to episode 158 today.

Related links

● Tam Wagner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tam-wagner-p-eng-268828b1/

● Save on Energy framework and programs: https://saveonenergy.ca/

● Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) : https://www.ieso.ca/

● Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/

● Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en

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Transcript:

Trevor Freeman 00:00

Welcome to thinkenergy, a podcast that dives into the fast, changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at [email protected]. Hi everyone. Welcome back. Energy is finite. Now don't worry. You didn't stumble into a podcast about theoretical physics. And while yes, that concept, that statement, could launch us into a discussion about the ever-expanding universe, about how we're all made up of the remnants of exploding stars, or how ultimately, all of our collective species’ history, including the history of the planet, is but the tiniest fraction of a fraction of a blink of an eye in the grand scale of the cosmos. That's not what we're talking about today. But if you want to talk about that, give me a shout. I'd love to. know today we're talking about much more zoomed in practical look at what that statement means. So, the amount of electricity available to us as consumers who need that electricity to charge our devices, to operate our homes and our businesses, and increasingly, to heat our spaces and to power our vehicles, is limited. In the past, that electricity has been limited by the inputs by the fossil fuels that we need to burn in order to generate that electricity. But increasingly, as we transition to more and more renewable sources who you know, seemingly are infinite, you know, there's a whole lot of sunlight out there. Our limits are more economical and practical. We are expanding the grid. We're adding capacity, adding more generation, transmission, distribution, but those things also come with a cost, so we can't just do it in perpetuity, and we can't do it at the speed maybe necessary for some of the new uses that we're looking for. In light of all that, it does make sense for us to ensure that we are being as efficient as possible with the energy that we do need to use. Enter conservation or demand side management, the intentional effort to reduce wasted energy and to maximize efficiency, while also managing when we use energy so as to spread out the load, to minimize large peaks of demand, which are harder to manage than a more even demand profile. In Ontario, our system operator, the Independent Electricity System Operator, or IESO. Sometimes I'll refer to that as ISO has managed provincial conservation programs for the last two decades. Conservation is and has been a foundational element in grid planning and in our supply mix. That has been the case for a number of years now, and will continue to be the case. Recently, in January of this year, January 2025 the ISO unveiled its ambitious new save on energy framework, a comprehensive 12-year plan designed to empower both residential and commercial customers in Ontario to take control of their energy consumption. This initiative arrives at a really critical juncture, recognizing the pivotal role of energy efficiency and maintaining a reliable and affordable electricity system, something we talk about all the time on the show, amidst a projected surge in demand driven by economic growth and the energy transition towards electrification, something else we talk about all the time on the show. I hope by now you're seeing that all these things come together, and the topics that we talk about are usually related to each other. Backed by significant provincial investment and a strong commitment to collaborate across the sector. And this includes ongoing collaboration with Enbridge and a new role for the local distribution companies like Hydro Ottawa, this new framework really introduces a suite of new and expanded programs aimed at creating this culture of conservation and facilitating the adoption of cleaner energy technologies. It's really meant to complement the energy transition and make sure we do it in a way that is as efficient and affordable as possible. The ISOs new save on energy framework in Ontario holds significant implications for Canada's broader energy future, aligning with a number of key national trends and objectives. So just because this is an Ontario framework, there's a lot of good information here that applies across Canada's energy sector, and indeed, even beyond Canada's borders. Things like supporting our climate goals and emission reduction targets by encouraging a shift away from fossil fuels for heating and transportation, by making it easier to switch to electric options for those two things, things like recognizing energy efficiency as one of the lowest cost resources to address system needs, and in fact, we'll talk about that in our conversation with our guests here in a few moments. Addressing the need for electricity demand. As Canada pursues electrification across various sectors, so in Ontario, our system operator is forecasting a 75% increase in our demand by 2050 you're seeing similar projected increases across the country and indeed around the world, as economies and energy sectors that have been very reliant on fossil fuels look to switch to more electric options, while at the same time managing those other growth items that we've talked about in the past. Ai data centers being one of the big ones. This framework also looks to promote grid modernization and integration of more renewable energy sources across the grids, so in essence, a greater interprovincial electricity system. And finally, looking to foster economic opportunities by stimulating the clean tech sector driving more demand for those energy efficient technologies and services. So, to help us better understand this new program and the role of conservation in Ontario's grid management, I decided to go right to the source, and I'm joined today by Tam Wagner. Tam is the director of demand side management at the ieso and provides thought leadership for the design and delivery of energy efficiency and demand side management programs. Tam has been with the ISO since 2005 in a number of different roles, and so she is well placed to help us dive into all the details about this new conservation framework. And I'm really excited to talk to her today. As I mentioned a couple times in our chat, I come from a conservation background. That's kind of how I got my start in the utility and so it's great to see how it's evolved over the years. And I'm really excited to dive into this with Tam. Tam Wagner, welcome to the show.

Tam Wagner 06:54

Thanks for having me, Trevor.

Trevor Freeman 06:55

okay, so let's dive right in with a little bit of the basics here. Why is energy efficiency a priority for the province? Why are we even talking about energy efficiency?

Tam Wagner 07:05

So, to get into that, I'm going to take a step back first and talk about what electricity demand is doing in the province of Ontario. So, what we're seeing is it's growing according to the ISO latest demand forecast, the provincial electricity demand is anticipated to grow 75% by 2050 and that just further reinforces the need for us to really invest in everything in order to meet those growing electricity demands, including energy efficiency and demand side resources. At the ISO, we've been delivering energy efficiency and demand side management programs for businesses and residences in Ontario for nearly 20 years, and we've done this through different frameworks and business models. And more specifically, since 2011 we've been delivering our programs through our save on energy grant. With that is, is what we've seen is energy efficiency at three cents per kilowatt hour. It's one of our lowest cost resources to meet what Ontario's energy needs, what we've been able to achieve, and it's really building on this success is, since 2006 Ontario has saved 18.5 terawatt hours of electricity as a result of our programs. So, to put that into context, that's the equivalent of powering 2 million homes for one year. And so, with that is when we think about energy efficiency, it's really a key tool in our toolbox to meet some of the reliability needs, yes, in the past, but also those growing needs going forward.

Trevor Freeman 08:27

And what about the so we talk a lot in the show, obviously, about the energy transition in context of climate change and trying to reduce our emissions. How does energy conservation fit into that? What are some of the environmental benefits of focusing on energy efficiency?

Tam Wagner 08:44

When we think about when Ontarians use electricity the most, and usually it's in the summer period with air conditioning load on, in order to meet those electricity peaks, what we run is is a variety of generators within the province, so nuclear, hydroelectric, but also included in that is our natural gas generators. And oftentimes those natural gas generators are on for those peak periods, like I mentioned, in those summer peak periods. So, by leading into energy efficiency and actually reducing what our summer peaks are, we're relying less on those gas generators, and hopefully being able to run them less as well, because we are flattening what that load is, if we're running those gas generators less, we're able to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions that come from those resources.

Trevor Freeman 09:28

Yeah, and just for our listeners, kind of drawing on my background of previously working in energy conservation, all the things that really drive toward wanting to reduce electricity consumption, sort of the highest cost times the highest emission times. They all kind of coincide. So, when you're focusing on that energy efficiency, focusing on reducing your consumption or your demand, it has that added benefit of reducing your cost and reducing your emissions, and all of the above. So really, a lot of things coming together to make. Energy Efficiency makes sense for the customer as well as the utilities and the system operator, of course. Okay, so Tam, you said a couple of things in that answer that I want to dive into a little bit more detail. So the first one is that energy efficiency has been around for a long time. You know, you said, 20 years we've been doing energy conservation in one form or another in the province of Ontario. So, what's different about this latest framework that's just been launched? How has that evolved? What's different moving forward?

Tam Wagner 10:29

Now, you're going to get me really excited to talk about this. If we reflect back on on the past, what we've had is is really time bound frameworks. Our frameworks have been anywhere from two years to five years with this new framework that we were starting in is it's a 12-year framework, so over a decade long. The other piece is the funding commitment, and so it's a 12-year framework with a $10.9 billion commitment. So, it's billion with a B. So, we're talking both from a scope and a scale perspective, significant additional investments and time commitment with the new framework. One of the recommendations that the ISO made in our midterm review report, and so this was published in 2022 and the at the midpoint of our previous framework was our recommendation was to move away from these time bound frameworks and better leverage demand side, manage, management and energy efficiency as a resource to respond to evolving system market and customer needs. So, as you noted, Trevor, there is, is the one of the things I also say too, is, is the superpower of energy efficiency is, is it really operates at that intersection point between the electricity grid needs, but also what customer needs are, being able to respond to customer needs will allow us to provide electricity savings to address those energy system needs, and with this new framework, it does exactly that. So not only is the framework a 12-year commitment, a feature of the framework is that it's enduring. So, what do I mean by it being enduring is that within that 12 year period, there's a commitment that at the six year mark, we'll do a midterm review? We'll reflect on what's working, some of the successes of the program, of the framework, but then also, what are the opportunities to enhance it? How a system needs evolved over that time? How have customer needs evolved over that time? And provide recommendations? Going forward with those recommendations, there's an opportunity for the government to then also recommit to the framework and enhance it or extend it out another six years, so that we have another 12-year framework. So, the key element of this is that the framework actually never hits its end point. It just continues to re up itself or extend itself with the with the support and commitment from government. The other piece that I'd highlight too are from a customer perspective is, is, with this framework, there's a there's something for everyone in it. When we look at the electricity system and past frameworks, it really carved out specific customer classes that our programs could serve. With this it captures businesses, whether it be small business, commercial, institutional or industrial or industrial organizations, but it also has call outs for the residential sector as well as customers that have historically been underserved or vulnerable customer segments, including income qualifier First Nations communities. So really a broad scope in not only timing and funding commitment, but also the customers that we can serve with this framework

Trevor Freeman 13:21

That's fantastic, again, lots of good stuff in there. I really like the idea of creating a more enduring model that has more predictability a longer time frame. And the benefits of that are fantastic. It gives our customers predictability. They know these programs are going to be around, and they can plan their projects ahead of time. Instead of scrambling to Hey, we got to get this done in the next 12 months or two years, or whatever the case may be, it lets you know service providers, or those folks that are out there supporting energy efficiency measures build this into their business plans and really spend the time to educate customers. And then, speaking from the utility perspective, this is also great to have that predictability. We can talk to our customers about it. We can say, look, this is the reality here. This is the program that'll be in place for a long time. So I think that's fantastic that we've got that sort of enduring model. Now.

Tam Wagner 14:19

Trevor, I feel like he's been a fly on the ISO walls that we as we've been talking about, the new framework, because those are exactly all the things that we've highlighted. The other piece I would add, too, is, from a workforce perspective, is being able to build capacity in all of our respective organizations, to be able to support the the increased need and demand for for energy efficiencies, whether it be from a contractor or skilled trade perspective. So giving us the time to invest in people as well?

Trevor Freeman 14:51

Yeah, yeah, that's another great point. And our listeners, you know, who knows what their background is, but everybody probably has some experience in you. A plan is great on paper and a program is great on paper, and when you actually implement it, there's a lot of lessons to be learned and iterations and tweaks, and having the runway to learn those lessons and make those tweaks and adjust as you know time goes on and the context change, I think, is another really great benefit of this program, and having that long timeframe to have that flexibility and have the room to maneuver, which is fantastic. So I agree. Okay, so the next thing that you mentioned a little bit ago, that I want to dive into is just the sheer magnitude of additional demand that is coming, and that's not going to be anything new to listeners. We talk about that a lot of you know all the different drivers that are pushing up demand from electrification as a result of the climate crisis, growing demand in AI data centers, et cetera, et cetera. You mentioned the projection of a 75% increase by 2050, so let's talk about the role that energy efficiency in particular will play in helping address that growth and the growing demand that's coming and making sure that we can meet that demand in an affordable way. What's the role of energy efficiency in that?

Tam Wagner 16:19

I think what I'd say is, is the challenge that that puts out to energy efficiency is our forecast. Our latest forecast indicates that 75% growth by 2050 I say the challenge that's put out to energy efficiency is, how do we make it less than 75% so with energy efficiency, what it helps to do is, is it helps to mitigate the pace of that growth by using electricity more efficiently. It's a tool in the ISOs reliability toolbox, and so it's a resource that we will directly incorporate into our planning assumptions and indicate, and basically from the from the get go, say, if we can get this savings and electricity from energy efficiency, those are megawatts that we don't have to go out and procure traditional resources or or defers the timing in which we may need to procure those additional resources, so whether that those resources be supply side generators or transmission or distribution line infrastructure, so really, being able to avoid or defer some of those infrastructure costs. The other piece too about energy efficiency, and back to that point around that intersection point between system need and customer need is our programs. By participating in our programs, you're directly getting dollars right into your pockets. So through our incentives and our rebates, those are dollars that we will provide straight to the customers and participating in our program. So that's the upfront benefit from an affordability perspective, but then from a longer term perspective is it helps customers be able to better manage their energy and usage, and being able to better manage your energy and use you can also better manage what your energy bills are. So, Trevor, you had mentioned around, okay, what are some of those peaking times, and what are the higher costs often attributed to those peaking times is through demand side management and energy efficiency. You can not only shave that peak by using less electricity. The other piece that we're really leaning into, and I keep referring to, demand side management, is, how can you control how you how you use that electricity? One of the things that we've done recently for residential consumers is through our P perks program and through something as simple as a smart thermostat, is being able to actually provide electricity systems to the system savings to the grid through small adjustments on the smart thermostat that you have at home can make really big impact from a grid. Need perspective, but then also impact what your usage is, and shifting some of your use at home into those lower priced hours, when we think of it, the time of use rates.

Trevor Freeman 18:46

Yeah, really, when it comes down to it, every kilowatt hour saved, or, you know, kilowatt avoided, is something that doesn't have to pass through a transmission line or a distribution line. It doesn't have to go through a transformer, and we don't need to generate that somewhere. And so there's obviously savings there. You mentioned a little bit earlier in a previous answer, that stat around, you know, three cents per kilowatt hour. How does that stack up? Or how does that compare to other generation or transmission assets, like when it comes to cost and reliability? Compare energy efficiency to more traditional assets.

Tam Wagner 19:24

The simple answer is, it's lower. So when one of the principles we take when we when we pursue our energy efficiency programs is we talk about it being cost effective. And what that really means is that when we compare it to other traditional infrastructure, so long as the cost of providing those energy efficiency programs, so cost from an administration perspective and delivering the programs, but also including the incentives, the rebates that we provide to customers, so long as that all in cost is less than the cost of traditional infrastructure, whether it be generation or transmission, we'll pursue it. So that's really. Where I'd say just simply, is the energy efficiency programs that we deliver are all cost effective, and so they're all a lower cost than the traditional resources that we employ.

Trevor Freeman 20:11

That working. I can speak from experience, working at the utility, and like I said previously, being in conservation, I have gotten the question in the past, why is the utility or the utility sector, spending money to get us to not use electricity? Isn't that counterproductive? And you just gave the answer right there. It's so much cheaper to do that than to try and build new generation, build new assets. It's the cheapest way to achieve that capacity, to get that capacity that we need on the grid, which, again, we talk about here all the time. So great answer. Let's get into the numbers a little bit. So you mentioned sort of previous savings that we've achieved here in the province of Ontario. And I think you said, if I'm not mistaken, since 2005 we have saved essentially the equivalent of, you know, taking 2 million homes off the grid. I hope that's the right stat. Then the targets that we've got here for this program are pretty ambitious, and so for our listeners, by the end of 2027 so that's really only two and a bit years from now, two and a half, the target for the program is to achieve 900 megawatts of demand reduction and 4.6 terawatts of energy savings. Now, for those of you who are not kind of nerdy engineers like myself, like Tam, sorry, Tam, to throw you in that bucket, that's about the same as taking a half a million homes off the grid. So we've done 2 million homes already, and the last 20 years. In the next two and a half years, we're trying to hit a quarter of that tell me a little bit about the ambition of this program.

Tam Wagner 21:53

Definitely ambitious, if I think that's really great context, and even if I take the context even more recently, when our last framework was a four-year framework. So, from 2021, to 2025, our targets there were 725, megawatts of peak demand savings and 3.8 terawatt hours of energy savings, which were aggressive then. So, we're continuing to be more aggressive on our savings. And what I'd say with that is, that what we're seeing is, is we're seeing a very engaged customer base. Ontarians are very engaged and want to do their part, and especially if their part actually doesn't require a lot of work on, on the Ontarians behalf. And so, what we're really wanting to do is, is tap into that and say, if you, if you want to do your part here, we'll give you a space for you to do your part, whether it be at home, as a as a homeowner, or in your businesses and looking at it from a larger scale perspective, really, what we want to lean into is that all hands-on deck approach. So, recognizing that this is the lowest cost resource to meet our growing needs is, let's start there first. Let's optimize. Let's get everything we can out of energy efficiency and that lowest cost resource before we go up the stack to say, Okay, if it's not an acknew, we've got to spend on something that's a little bit more expensive. But let's first try to exhaust that lowest cost resource first. And one of the things that we also recognize in doing that is, I feel like I talked a lot about the ISO, but definitely the recognition that the ISO is, is that we can't do it all ourselves, is that these growing needs are going to impact everyone, both from a end user or consumer perspective, but also businesses and organizations and utilities that you touched on before Trevor. So as we are faced with the same challenge when it comes to growing electricity needs, how do we work together to address that? And very much a I'm very much a supporter of the saying we're so much greater than the sum of our parts, and being able to work together to achieve those growing needs will be a key part in meeting those very aggressive targets.

Trevor Freeman 24:05

Yeah, so perfect segue into the next thing I want to talk about, which is the role of the different players in the sector. And so just as a refresher for everybody, the Independent Electricity System Operator is the system operator in Ontario who kind of oversees the electricity grid for the province of Ontario. We have a transmission entity who kind of gets the high voltage electricity around the province to the place it needs to be. And then there are distribution entities, and that's who hydro is, who I work for. So Tam, let's talk about the role of that local distribution company, that kind of last line before the customer when it comes to implementing this new framework.

Tam Wagner 24:50

So, I, what I would say is, is that we very explicitly call out collaboration in this framework. So, we talk about, yes, well, the local distribution companies. So specifically, we also talk about our natural gas distributors as well as the federal government in our potential collaboration efforts. So, we'll focus in on the local distribution company side of it. We recognize that as the province wide needs are growing, from a bottom up perspective, the distribution needs are growing in each of the distribution territories as well, and so especially when some of those needs are coincident with each other, there's opportunities for us to really as opposed to us each doing our own thing in order to address our own relative challenges. Is why not work together to come up with a solution that'll address both of our challenges at the same time, and a big goal of that, yes, meeting those system needs, but having that customer focus in mind and saying, looking at it to say, how can we best enhance the customer experience? And if we've got a really strong customer journey and something that really speaks to customers, more customers will participate in our programs, and we'll address our system needs. I don't want to say it as a as a byproduct or as a result, but it starts first with the customer. For the ISO, we recognize, you noted, we're a system operator. We're operating at that 10,000-foot level when it comes to electricity grid, we've had great success in recognizing the value of energy efficiency and demand side management and addressing our bulk system. Addressing our bulk system needs in working with local distribution companies, we want to also be able to support and be able to really move the conversation around how energy efficiency and demand side management can also help address those distribution system needs as well. And what that is we also recognize the strength that LDCs bring to the table when it comes to your customers and the relationship that you have with customers. So what we've been working in, and we've already been working collaboratively with local distribution companies across the province, we're really taking a an approach in two main areas when it comes to that collaboration. So first off, leading into that customer the customer relationship that local distribution companies have working with the utilities to further support the province wide programs that are delivered under the save on energy brand and enhancing the customer journey, customer experience to those really focusing on marketing and business development activities to increase the participation in our province wide programs. So that's the first area of focus that we have with our collaboration. The second area, and leading into the piece around the distribution system needs those utilities may be faced with, is, how do we work together to support some local programming, where from an as a system operator working at that 10,000-foot level, those look that local programming will also yield benefits to the bulk system. And recognizing that there may be gaps and some of the programs that we deliver today, or there may be needs very unique to a geographical area, is how do we work with the utilities to hone in on those provide those opportunities to implement different programs that complement our province wide programs potentially foster further innovation in that regards, and help address those distribution system needs while still providing benefits to the bulk system or the grid level as well. So really focusing in on those two areas. So first of all, enhancing the province wide programs, but then also zooming down a bit and looking to say, how do we work together to be able to provide funding for local programs to help address distribution system needs that the grid level will also benefit with?

Trevor Freeman 28:37

Yeah, that's great to hear. And you answered my next question already, so that's fantastic, which was around the level of knowledge and understanding that the local utilities bring to the mix of specifically what's happening with our customers on the ground in specific areas, and being able to, like you said, build or design unique aspects of the incentive program that are really targeted at a specific need in an area. So for example, if we have a part of our distribution system that's particularly constrained, we may want to target programming in that area to achieve faster results, bigger results, whatever the case may be, or if there's a particular load type or load profile that we want to tackle in an area we can sort of work with, with the ISO, to design a program that's really going to target that need and benefit the distribution and the bulk system at the same time. So great to see that that's part of the mix.

Tam Wagner 29:39

Absolutely, I think the two other things, if I can add to that, is really focusing in on what the customer needs are. And to your point, Trevor around if there are different load types or different customer uses, and then a local distribution company's territory is this, how do we how do we tap into the. And learn about it, that it might be ahead of where the broader Ontario customer base is at, and so that can really foster that innovation, and then maybe spur on potential province wide programs in the future. The other thing I'd notice is that Ontario right now, we're summer peaking, and as I mentioned, our significant electricity load comes from air conditioning. And I think the stat is about a third of our load in the summer is actually attributed to air conditioning load when we do our planning outlooks. So, our annual planning outlook is 20 years out. Is what we're starting to see, is in the early 2030s Ontario becomes dual peaking. What that means is that we still have that summer peak, but we're starting to see the winter peak increase as well, recognizing that we've got over I think over 55 local distribution companies in the province. Some of those local distribution companies are actually winter peaking today. So are there ways for us to to look at what programs, what winter focused energy efficiency programs may be available. I don't want to say pilot those, but potentially launch some of those in those winter peaking utility areas, and again, for the ISO learnings associated with that, so that when the province more broadly becomes dual peaking is have some experience, have some data to inform what might work at the province flight level, to help us better plan and prepare for that future.

Trevor Freeman 31:26

And so, for our listeners, I think we've talked about this before, but as we electrify, especially space heating, we're going to start seeing that higher load in the winter. And you know, there's a way to do it more efficiently than not. So, making sure that we're looking at technology like heat pump and smart thermostats instead of baseboard heating and, you know, sort of more analog controls for that. So programs designed to address that would make a lot of sense, as you say, Tim and in those areas where we're already seeing a significant increase in the winter. So great to hear. Okay, so this seems like a good time to kind of dive into some of the specifics about the programs. We've been sort of talking high level. Let's, let's get into the details. So for residential customers, for folks out there that you know, own their home or rent a home and have a relationship with a landlord, what are some of the programs that are available to those customers to really address energy efficiency in their homes?

Tam Wagner 32:26

So, we've got two specific programs for broad residential consumers in Ontario, I mentioned our peak perks program, and with that, it's a demand response program that's targeted at that summer peak. So it's actually been a very wildly successful program. It's been in market. We're just approaching two years. It launched June of 2023 and what that program does is, if you have central air conditioning or a heat pump in your home that cools your home in the summer, and you have a smart thermostat, is what is by enrolling in the program, you get on immediate enrollment and acceptance into the program, you get a $75 prepaid MasterCard to participate. And participation in the program involves on those peak summer days. And usually, we see those peak days between the months of June and September, will make small, a small two degree adjustment in the temperature in your home and for no longer than a three hour period. And with that is, is that that does provide relief and flattens that peak in from a province wide level to help address what our system peaks are. So I'd mentioned that program has been really successful, so over just shy of two years, we've got over 230,000 poems enrolled in the program. And what we expect with that is just over 160 megawatts of peak demand reduction as a result. When we call on the program and it's quickly become the largest virtual power plant in Canada and one of the largest in North America. So, if you're a residential consumer, with central air conditioning or heat pump that close your home and a smart thermostat, definitely something to look into. One of the things I would really highlight about that program, because you might say, Okay, two degrees. How does how does that feel? Am I going to be uncomfortable, especially if it's a peak summer, what hot and humid day? We've been really mindful of the customers through the design of that program, so the customer is always in control when it comes to our peak perks program. If you're if you work from home, or are home during a day when we're calling a peak perks event and you're finding your home is getting a little bit warmer than you would like, you can always go to your thermostat and readjust the temperature setting back to your normal setting to for to maximize on, on your comfort at the same time is, is when we know we're calling event. What we'll do is this will pre cool your home in advance of the event. So I mentioned it's a three hour event where we where we increase the temperature in your home by two degrees. Is what we'll do is, is as long as there we're not. In a state of emergency in the provinces is will adjust the temperature in your home so it's actually cooler half an hour before the events will cool your home two degrees. And then when we actually call the peak perks event, raise it. I guess the difference would be four degrees. But again, trying to maintain that coolness in your home to maximize on customer comfort and and and help with that. The other program that we have for residential consumers, and was just launched earlier this year, it's our home renovation savings program. So with that, we deliver it in collaboration with Enbridge gas, and it offers rebates for energy efficient upgrades that you may be looking to do in your home. And some of the equipment that we include in that are heat pumps as well as smart thermostats and solar PV, rooftop solar PV as that, as well as battery, battery energy storage systems. And then also, we know that when it comes to your home, being able to retain or heat or cooling weatherization as well, so attic insulation or doors and windows as well. So rebates available for all of those if you're a homeowner in Ontario, great.

Trevor Freeman 36:07

You mentioned earlier that there are sort of income qualified programs or programs for folks living in social housing and First Nations. Can you shed a little bit of light on those specific aspects?

Tam Wagner 36:18

Yes, absolutely. So we've got, again, this the this programs in collaboration with Enbridge gas as well. So we've got the ISOs, the save on energy's energy affordability program, which is offered alongside with Enbridge gasses, winter proofing program, home winter proofing program, and that offers, again, the energy efficient upgrades to customers that are income qualified. So there are income qualifications, whether you're low or moderate income household in Ontario, and it provides you with energy efficient upgrades at no cost to you. So I would highly recommend going to the save on energy.ca website to see what those income qualifications are. It's all dependent on the number of people that live in the home, what the income thresholds are, and again, the all of these upgrades would be available to you at no cost to you at all. From a First Nations programming perspective, we've got two programs offered to First Nations community. We've got the First Nations community building retrofit program as well as the remote First Nations programs, and both of them help both businesses and residences of on reserve First Nations communities make energy efficiency upgrades, again, at no cost to the community or the community members.

Trevor Freeman 37:30

Great, so, really, anybody living in a residential home, there's something out there for you. So rebates to address energy efficient equipment or support from the Ieso to or your local distribution company. Okay, so let's shift over to commercial, industrial, institutional, kind of agriculture, all the other types of customers out there. What are the programs that are being offered, and how do they differ if they do differ from previous programs?

Tam Wagner 38:01

Maybe I'll start with the last part of their question. First, what I'd say specifically with the these businesses is we're even with a new framework. We're not with the old and in with the new. So everything that's been offered in the past is basically available to customers today when it comes to those business programs, and what we're really committed to is, how do we continue to improve the offerings that we have as new technologies or available or organizations are looking to improve some of the processes that might to help result in more efficient energy and usage. So we offer a range of business programs that provide different opportunities. And really our focus is, how do we meet the businesses where they're at based on the type of business that they are, but also where they are along their energy efficiency journey. So a couple of programs that I'll highlight is, is we've got our retrofit program, and that's really been our flagship program, and under the save on energy brand, and what that does, it provides an a la carte list of prescribed technologies with Dean savings that businesses can pick from. So if you're looking at making what upgrades to your heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems and stuff, you can go to our retrofit program, and what it provides you is a list of equipment that it provide indicates what the energy savings that the ISO can expect from it, but and then also provides you with what the incentives levels are for that. So really, that's, I'd say that's kind of the simple, simplest path. From a customer journey perspective, we also recognize that there's a different range of customers when we think about our business customers, and it's not a one size fits all. We also have a small business program that recognizes the unique nature of small businesses in Ontario, and that program offers energy efficient upgrades at no cost to those businesses, and it also provides additional support to install the equipment as well. And we know that it's not all about technologies as well. I've mentioned around sometimes with processes that you. May have within your organization, they can also yield energy savings. So our strategic energy management program is designed to help organizations improve their energy performance by implementing an integrated system of organizational practices, policies and processes to achieve some of these persistent energy savings so really, what I'd say to the businesses is reflecting on what, what the nature of your organization is, how your energy and usage is, is that there's a variety of different programs that hopefully can cater to your needs and check out the save on energy.ca website to find out more.

Trevor Freeman 40:34

Yeah, I think in my kind of review of it, there's, there's support for equipment and sort of technical solutions to address energy efficiency, and you put it very, very well, you know the process, the people side of things, if you need support, if you need guidance, expertise, there's also methods of support to help you access that, whether in your organization or through other means, so lots of different avenues to address energy efficiency in all types of buildings. So those are all existing buildings, which we know are certainly a major part of energy consumption today and emissions today. But we're also building new buildings constantly and constantly adding to our building stock. So what programs are out there to address new building construction and making sure that we're constructing energy efficient buildings that go beyond existing codes and standards?

Tam Wagner 41:33

So, what I'm saying, I'll say there is, we're working on it. So as part of our 2025 to 2027 plan, we have identified the need for a new construction program. We heard this through stakeholder feedback as well. When we did our midterm review back in 2022 we we heard from stakeholders that that's a gap in our programming, and so we're looking, we were looking to address that. That gap has, that has been identified. So right now my team is we're doing some market research, and in order to help inform what the design of a new construction program may look like, our commitment is, is, is, as we've got some of those that early thinking is, we will go out and stakeholder it and invite feedback and into how best to design that program. We know the we know the things we know. We know there are things that others have expertise in, and that that expertise would really be helpful to the ISO as we, as we design the program. So I'd say, stay tuned for that and continue to look at on our stakeholder engagement website for upcoming engagements, where we will seek some feedback and insights into that design of that program.

Trevor Freeman 42:36

Perfect, one last item is beneficial electrification. So we know that the government has kind of directed the ISO to look at how to support beneficial electrification. So maybe kind of two questions here, what is beneficial electrification, if you could kind of help define that for our listeners, and what, how are you looking to support beneficial electrification for customers.

Tam Wagner 43:01

Sure, so how we look at beneficial electrification is, is really around changing your the fuel source of your end use. And that's I could probably plain language that a little bit more and maybe, well, it's easiest to use an example and an example charter that you've actually highlighted is, is for a lot of Ontarians, is, is the way you heat your home isn't actually typically with electricity, and that with fuel switching or switching the source that you heat your home with is that you can yield and really electrifying that is as you can yield greenhouse gas emissions reductions as a result of that of electrification, when We think about it from a beneficial electrification perspective, is electrification perspective, is, is with as we, as we talked about the demand in Ontario increasing is, how can we leverage the way that customers may be electrifying their end uses to ensure that we're doing it in the most efficient manner that will not only yield benefits to the Customers, from a GHG emissions perspective and from an overall energy bills perspective, but also provide benefits to the electricity grid as well. And trying to, instead of hitting that 75% is, how do we actually electrify and and electrify at a rate that's actually less than that 75% would be the goal that we're looking at here with regards to how we're actually applying that is just earlier this month. So in earlier in May, we launched our first offering through the home renovation savings program for a beneficial electrification. And what that entails is for those customers in Ontario that are currently heated through oil, propane or wood heated customers, is we do have a heat pump offering to to support electrifying those end uses that will enable the those customers to be to reduce the GHG emissions in their home, and with that is also save money on their energy bills as well recognizing. A different cost in the electricity side, versus the oil or propane fuels costs.

Trevor Freeman 45:06

Yeah, I think it's, I mean, I'm someone who, obviously, folks that are listening know, I'm pretty passionate about climate change. And if, if your only lens is GHGs or greenhouse gas reduction, you know, you may jump at electrifying in any possible way, but that could be taking out your furnace and putting in electric resistance baseboard heating, which is not a very efficient way to heat your home, or not as efficient as you could be doing with, for example, a heat pump which is much more efficient, you get a lot more energy out than you put in. And I've preached a lot about heat pumps on this program before, but that's the concept behind beneficial electrification. Is doing that fuel switching, but doing it in a way that one doesn't overly stress the grid. Two, doesn't overly stress your own energy bills, because we don't want to push people into unaffordable energy. So making sure that there's support to do the right move in the right way. Tam, just to wrap up here, you've said it a couple of times, but I'll give you a chance to say one more time, where do folks go to find out more information about these programs, what they can access? How to get that support? Where should they go and look?

Tam Wagner 46:18

So our website is the best place to get that information. So it's saveonenergy.ca. Whether you're a residential, consumer or business, all the information is there. And we also have energy savings tips on our website. So again, that's Saveonenergy.ca.

Trevor Freeman 46:34

Perfect. And I'm going to selfishly add a little plug in there of you can also reach out to your local distribution company, especially if you're here in hydro Auto's territory, we would be happy to help you access these programs and point you in the right direction and make sure that you're getting the support that you need through these programs. Tam, thanks so much for walking through this new framework. It's super exciting. I mean, it's a little bit close to my heart. Again, I've been working in conservation for a while before I moved into my current role, I spent a lot of time in conservation, so it's great to hear about the evolution of the program and where it's going. I'm really excited that it's such an important piece of the planning mix that it's getting the sort of recognition and focus that it's due and really exciting to see how it goes in the next couple of years. So to wrap up, we always end our interviews with a series of questions. So as long as you're ready, Tim, I'm going to jump right in with the first question being, what is a movie or a show that you have watched or are currently watching that you think everybody should take a look at?

Tam Wagner 47:40

This takes away from the seriousness of the conversation that we've been having.

Trevor Freeman 47:44

That's the goal we're trying to focus here.

Tam Wagner 47:47

So for those who don't know me, is I've got, I do have two kids in a series that we're watching right now. Is the rookie. Have you watched that before? Trevor? I

Trevor Freeman 47:56

I haven't, no, but it's on the list. We've got a long list

Tam Wagner 47:58

That sounds like our household as as as well. And it's a fun time. It's, it's a series that we can we watch as a family. And it's, I feel like sometimes we, you know, we try to solve the crime before the show does. But it also has a really good story, kind of, the initial story around an individual who is, I'd say, later in his career, but had a moment where he explored a career shift. And for me, that message there is around like you're never too old to try something new and be successful in it. So I think that's a really good message for me myself, but also a good message for my kids.

Trevor Freeman 48:38

Yeah, very cool. I like that one. I'll have to bump that up on the list. We'll watch it sooner rather than later. If somebody offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, carbon offset accounted for, of course, where would you go?

Tam Wagner 48:50

So I would go to Vietnam. So I am Vietnamese by background, born there, but I've lived in Canada for, oh, over 40 years, been back there a couple of times, and I've always loved it. It's a So, yes, back to kind of from a cultural roots perspective, there's just so much history there. It's a completely different climate from what we have here in Canada. The people are incredibly friendly, and the food is fantastic.

Trevor Freeman 49:21

I have a tiny, tiny sliver of experience, and can say that Vietnam I visited once, and was definitely on the top of my all time favorite trips for a number of different reasons. All the ones you just mentioned are certainly up there for sure. Who is someone that you admire.

Tam Wagner 49:37

And again, I'm going to cheat on this one a little bit, so because it will be fun, but my parents with them. So I'd mentioned were first generation immigrants, when I think about the things that they've done and to come to Canada, we came to Canada as refugees, so to leave a place that they were very comfortable in. Knew the culture. Knew the language to come to a country where completely different environment, completely different culture, had no family here, and their reason for doing it was so that myself and my brothers could have greater opportunities as a parent. I'd like to think that if I was faced with that, I would make the same decision. But until you're actually in those shoes, you never know whether you whether you would or not, so I am definitely very grateful for the decisions that they've made, because it's landed me where I am today, and are very appreciative of that. So very much admire them.

Trevor Freeman 50:32

Yeah, that's a fantastic story. Thanks for sharing that. Tim. Finally, what is something about the energy sector or its future that you're particularly excited about.

Tam Wagner 50:43

We're at a really unique spot right now in that we are very much building for the future, and not just our future or kids future. When we think about the electricity infrastructure, it's things, it's something that's going to be in place for the next 40 plus years. So being able to face that challenge to build something for the generations to come is very exciting for me. It's not just the what of it, but how we do it. As I touched on before around, we're greater than the sum of our parts. Is being able to do that in a way that we can collaborate with each other, really lean on each other's strengths, learn from each other, and then I think that foundational culture is the way that we'll be really successful and ensuring that we can have that reliable, affordable and sustainable electricity future. So excited about the challenge, but also even more excited about how we're going to face that challenge and work together to to to be successful.

Trevor Freeman 51:40

Yes, I love that, and I think that's a great place to wrap this up. I love that. And I say this often to folks like, I can't think of a better spot to be when I think about climate and energy and the energy transition than kind of in the electricity sector, thinking about how all roads, or at least most roads, to the things that we want to envision run through the electricity grid and all the different nuances of that. And you could go down endless paths of, how do we make sure that this is going to work, and how do we make sure it's going to be affordable and that people are going to have the power they need? So super glad to hear that you're excited about that and passionate about that, super glad that you're putting your efforts towards that. Thanks. For coming on and talking to us today and sort of sharing your expertise and wisdom around this pretty exciting new program that hopefully is going to be a major piece of our energy future here in Ontario, at least moving forward.

Tam Wagner 52:38

Thanks for having me. Really appreciated you taking the time and spending it with me as well Trevor.

Trevor Freeman 52:42

Fantastic Tam Wagner, thanks very much for coming on, and we'll chat again soon. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback, comments or an idea for a show or a guest, you can always reach us at [email protected]