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A Conversation With Matt Muller From Tines

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Content provided by Daniel Miessler. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Daniel Miessler or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

➡ Build, run, and monitor workflows with Tines at: tines.com

In this episode, I speak with Matt Muller, Field CSCO at Tines, about how automation and AI are transforming security operations at scale.

We talk about:

• Tines' Mission to Eliminate Manual Security Work Through Automation
How Tines helps security teams streamline incident response and workflow automation without needing to write code, saving time and reducing burnout.

• Applying AI to Security Operations and Analyst Workflows
How AI is used in phishing analysis, threat intel reporting, and data transformation—integrated safely into workflows using tools like Workbench with private LLMs.

• Tines Workbench and the Future of Agentic AI
How Workbench combines chat with deterministic automation to help analysts take action securely, and how Tines is exploring agentic AI to take automation even further.

Chapters:

00:00 - How Tines Automates Security to Solve SOC Burnout
07:19 - The AI Arms Race: How Attackers and Defenders Are Evolving
09:08 - Why Security Still Comes Down to Workflow, Logging, and Action
13:41 - How CISOs Are Balancing AI Adoption and Enterprise Risk
17:36 - Using AI in Tines to Transform and Automate Security Workflows
20:40 - How AI Detects Business Email Compromise Better Than Rules
25:26 - From Security to Data Pipelines: Tines as Workflow Orchestration
28:59 - Inside Workbench: Secure AI-Powered Chat for Analysts
36:00 - Automating Phishing Investigations with Trusted Tool Integrations
39:19 - Where to Learn More and Try Tines for Free

Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  continue reading

543 episodes

Artwork

A Conversation With Matt Muller From Tines

Unsupervised Learning

341 subscribers

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Manage episode 474519669 series 2343127
Content provided by Daniel Miessler. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Daniel Miessler or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.

➡ Build, run, and monitor workflows with Tines at: tines.com

In this episode, I speak with Matt Muller, Field CSCO at Tines, about how automation and AI are transforming security operations at scale.

We talk about:

• Tines' Mission to Eliminate Manual Security Work Through Automation
How Tines helps security teams streamline incident response and workflow automation without needing to write code, saving time and reducing burnout.

• Applying AI to Security Operations and Analyst Workflows
How AI is used in phishing analysis, threat intel reporting, and data transformation—integrated safely into workflows using tools like Workbench with private LLMs.

• Tines Workbench and the Future of Agentic AI
How Workbench combines chat with deterministic automation to help analysts take action securely, and how Tines is exploring agentic AI to take automation even further.

Chapters:

00:00 - How Tines Automates Security to Solve SOC Burnout
07:19 - The AI Arms Race: How Attackers and Defenders Are Evolving
09:08 - Why Security Still Comes Down to Workflow, Logging, and Action
13:41 - How CISOs Are Balancing AI Adoption and Enterprise Risk
17:36 - Using AI in Tines to Transform and Automate Security Workflows
20:40 - How AI Detects Business Email Compromise Better Than Rules
25:26 - From Security to Data Pipelines: Tines as Workflow Orchestration
28:59 - Inside Workbench: Secure AI-Powered Chat for Analysts
36:00 - Automating Phishing Investigations with Trusted Tool Integrations
39:19 - Where to Learn More and Try Tines for Free

Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  continue reading

543 episodes

All episodes

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UL NO. 487: STANDARD EDITION: Iranian Critical Infra Attacks, Insane Recent Productivity, A Chinese Mosquito Drone, Marcus's Response to Our AI Debate, "Context Engineering" Ain't It, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-487 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
Marcus and I debate AIs capabilities from nearly polar opposite ends. He thinks it's basically autocomplete, and I think it's the most important tech we've ever built as humans. It was a fantastic, and very civil conversation, so thanks to Marcus for that, and we're already planning on Part 2. This two-hour discussion covers: 🧠 The real risks of AI vs. the imagined ones 🔐 How security researchers view AI's capabilities 🤖 The blurry line between useful and dangerous automation ⚖️ Bias, alignment, and who gets to control intelligence 📉 Whether AI might ultimately collapse under its own complexity Marcus Hutchins is best known for stopping the WannaCry ransomware attack and brings a sharp, skeptical perspective to AI. Marcus' Website: https://marcushutchins.com Watch the interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/I9-iD_rLRjA Subscribe to the UL newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Follow Marcus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malwaretech/ Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
UL NO. 486: STANDARD EDITION: Fully Automated AI Malware (Binary and Web), My Debate with Marcus Hutchins on AI, The 'Did You Notice?' Psyop, The METR AI Metric for Longterm Tasks, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-486 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
STANDARD EDITION: Netflix RCE, My Current AI Stack, All-in on Claude Code, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-485 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
UL NO. 484: STANDARD EDITION: OpenAI's Malicious AI Report, Disappointed with WWDC, AI's First Actual Science Breakthrough, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-484 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
A Chrome 0-Day, Meta Automates Security Assessments, New Essays, My New Video on Hacking with AI, Ukraine's Asymmetrical Attack, Thoughts on My AI Skeptical Friends, The Dangers of Winning the Wrong Game, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-483 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
Sponsored by Vanta. Vanta takes the busywork out of GRC so you can focus on what actually matters—improving your security, not chasing compliance. https://ul.live/vanta This isn’t just another AI podcast. It’s about the deeper shift that’s happening in cybersecurity—away from individual tools and dashboards, and toward real-time, comprehensive world models of what we’re trying to protect or attack. I'll walk through how I came to this idea, what it means for security assessments, red teaming, vuln management, and beyond—and why context, not AI, is the actual revolution. 📽️Check out the full video here: https://youtu.be/UwTTcka1Wd8 Topics covered: Why the core problem in security is organizational knowledge Unified Entity Context (UEC) as the future architecture Modular, AI-augmented security stacks Why every attacker and defender will soon be running one How this flips the AI conversation on its head If you care about where hacking, automation, and AI are headed—this is the blueprint. 📬Subscribe for updates about trends and ideas in Cybersecurity, National Security, AI, Technology, and Society👇🏼 https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/ 👉🏻 X (Twitter): https://ul.live/x 👉🏻 Instagram: https://ul.live/ig 👉🏻 BlueSky: https://ul.live/bluesky 👉🏻 LinkedIn: https://ul.live/li Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
AI Finds an 0-Day!, Postman Leaking Secrets, High Agency Mental Model, My Unified Entity Context Video, Github MCP Leaks Private Repos, Google vs. OpenAI vs. Apple on AI Vision, and more... You are currently listening to the Standard version of the podcast, consider upgrading and becoming a member to unlock the full version and many other exclusive benefits here : https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/upgrade Read this episode online: https://newsletter.danielmiessler.com/p/ul-482 Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
🔹 Thanks to ProjectDiscovery for sponsoring today’s video. I've been using their tools like Nuclei and Subfinder for years, and now they’ve brought that power to the cloud with a full vulnerability management platform. ➡ Try it yourself at https://ul.live/PD1 For over a decade, I've been exploring how AI and context intersect—and I believe Unified Entity Context (UEC) is the key to unlocking what comes next. In this podcast, I walk through my journey—from security assessments and AI-powered tools to building real-world demos like Alma and Threshold. The core idea? That most hard decisions are only hard because we lack the necessary context. With rich, accurate, and fresh context, even complex decisions become simple. If you're building in security, investing in AI, or just trying to understand where things are heading, this concept might reframe everything. Check out the full video here: https://youtu.be/IHUqk90ch7I Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
What really happened at RSA 2024? Daniel Miessler and Jason Haddix break it down. Fresh off a whirlwind RSA week, Daniel sits down with Jason Haddix (Arcanum Information Security) to talk about what mattered—beyond the show floor noise. From off-site innovation summits to real-world AI implementation, this deep dive covers: -Where the real innovation happened (hint: not on the show floor) -Key takeaways from the OpenAI and Airbnb AI Security events -Jason’s talk on AI pentesting methodology and the Prompt Injection Taxonomy -The future of cybersecurity moats and the risk of AI-native disruption -Why agents aren’t the main character—data is -DARPA's AIxCC competition and the rise of Cyber Reasoning Systems -Challenges with evals, autonomous security workflows, and VDP backlash -Behind the scenes at RSA: puppies, parties, burnout, and brutal honesty They also explore content creation, the future of platform-native context, and why being opinionated (with receipts) matters more than ever in security and tech. Jason's Company https://arcanum-sec.com Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
➡ Get full visibility, risk insights, red teaming, and governance for your AI models, AI agents, RAGs, and more—so you can securely deploy AI powered applications with ul.live/mend In this episode, I speak with Bar-El Tayouri, Head of AI Security at Mend.io , about the rapidly evolving landscape of application and AI security—especially as multi-agent systems and fuzzy interfaces redefine the attack surface. We talk about: • Modern AppSec Meets AI Agents How traditional AppSec falls short when it comes to AI-era components like agents, MCP servers, system prompts, and model artifacts—and why security now depends on mapping, monitoring, and understanding this entire stack. • Threat Discovery, Simulation, and Mitigation How Mend’s AI security suite identifies unknown AI usage across an org, simulates dynamic attacks (like prompt injection via PDFs), and provides developers with precise, in-code guidance to reduce risk without slowing innovation. • Why We’re Rethinking Identity, Risk, and Governance Why securing AI systems isn’t just about new threats—it’s about re-implementing old lessons: identity access, separation of duties, and system modeling. And why every CISO needs to integrate security into the dev workflow instead of relying on blunt-force blocking. Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Chapters: 00:00 - From Game Hacking to AI Security: Barel’s Tech Journey 03:51 - Why Application Security Is Still the Most Exciting Challenge 04:39 - The Real AppSec Bottleneck: Prioritization, Not Detection 06:25 - Explosive Growth of AI Components Inside Applications 12:48 - Why MCP Servers Are a Massive Blind Spot in AI Security 15:02 - Guardrails Aren’t Keeping Up With Agent Power 16:15 - Why AI Security Is Maturing Faster Than Previous Tech Waves 20:59 - Traditional AppSec Tools Can’t Handle AI Risk Detection 26:01 - How Mend Maps, Discovers, and Simulates AI Threats 34:02 - What Ideal Customers Ask For When Securing AI 38:01 - Beyond Guardrails: Mend’s Guide Rails for In-Code Mitigation 41:49 - Multi-Agent Systems Are the Next Security Nightmare 45:47 - Final Advice for CISOs: Enable, Don’t Disable Developers Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
In this episode, I break down what I believe is the emerging structure of the AI-powered world we're all building—consciously or not. I call it the “Four A’s”: Assistants, APIs, Agents, and Augmented Reality. This framework helps make sense of recent developments and where it’s all headed. I talk about: 1. Digital Assistants That Understand and Optimize Your Life Your DA (like “Kai”) will know your goals, preferences, health, schedule, and context—and proactively optimize your day, from filtering messages to planning meals or surfacing relevant information in real time. 2. APIs and the Real Internet of Things Everything becomes an API—from businesses to people to physical objects. Your assistant interacts with these APIs to act on your behalf, turning the world into a navigable ecosystem of services, tools, and resources. 3. Agents and AR Bringing It All Together Agents act autonomously to complete multi-step goals, and AR glasses will display their outputs contextually as you move through the world. These systems will collaborate, search, and act—quietly transforming how we live, work, and perceive reality. Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler See you in the next one! Chapters: 00:00 - The AI Ecosystem We’re Building Without Realizing It 01:33 - Assistant: Your Most Powerful Digital Companion 03:08 - APIs: How DAs Interact with the World 07:54 - Agents: The Step Beyond Automation 11:00 - Augmented Reality: The Interface Layer of the AI Ecosystem 14:20 - Combining APIs, Agents, and UI for Real-Time Situational Awareness 17:17 - Summary: A Unified Ecosystem Driven by the Four A’s 23:36 - Industry Trends: How Companies Like OpenAI, Apple, and Meta Fit In 25:11 - Final Thoughts on Timelines, Winners, and Interpreting AI News Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
In this episode, I walk through a Fabric Pattern that assesses how well a given model does on a task relative to humans. This system uses your smartest AI model to evaluate the performance of other AIs—by scoring them across a range of tasks and comparing them to human intelligence levels. I talk about: 1. Using One AI to Evaluate Another The core idea is simple: use your most capable model (like Claude 3 Opus or GPT-4) to judge the outputs of another model (like GPT-3.5 or Haiku) against a task and input. This gives you a way to benchmark quality without manual review. 2. A Human-Centric Grading System Models are scored on a human scale—from “uneducated” and “high school” up to “PhD” and “world-class human.” Stronger models consistently rate higher, while weaker ones rank lower—just as expected. 3. Custom Prompts That Push for Deeper Evaluation The rating prompt includes instructions to emulate a 16,000+ dimensional scoring system, using expert-level heuristics and attention to nuance. The system also asks the evaluator to describe what would have been required to score higher, making this a meta-feedback loop for improving future performance. Note: This episode was recorded a few months ago, so the AI models mentioned may not be the latest—but the framework and methodology still work perfectly with current models. Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler See you in the next one! Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
➡ Secure what your business is made of with Martial Security: https://material.security/ In this episode, I speak with Patrick Duffy from Material Security about modern approaches to email and cloud workspace security—especially how to prevent and contain attacks across platforms like Google Workspace and Microsoft 365. We talk about: • Proactive Security for Email and Cloud Platforms How Material goes beyond traditional detection by locking down high-risk documents and inboxes preemptively—using signals like time, access patterns, content sensitivity, and anomalous user behavior. • Real-World Threats and Lateral Movement What the team is seeing in the wild—from phishing and brute-force attacks to internal data oversharing—and how attackers are increasingly moving laterally through cloud ecosystems using a single set of compromised credentials. • Customizable, Context-Aware Response Workflows How Material helps teams right-size their responses based on risk appetite, enabling fine-grained actions like MFA prompts, access revocation, or full session shutdowns—triggered by dynamic, multi-signal rule sets. Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Chapters: 00:00 - Welcome & High-Level Overview of Material Security 02:04 - Common Threats: Phishing and Lateral Movement in Cloud Office 05:30 - Access Control in Collaborative Workspaces (2FA, Just-in-Time, Aging Content) 08:43 - Connecting Signals: From Login to Exfiltration via Rule Automation 12:25 - Real-World Scenario: Suspicious Login and Automated Response 15:08 - Rules, Templates, and Customer Customization at Onboarding 18:46 - Accidental Risk: Sensitive Document Sharing and Exposure 21:04 - Security Misconfigurations and Internal Abuse Cases 23:43 - Full Control Points: IP, Behavior, Classification, Sharing Patterns 27:50 - Integrations, Notifications, and Real-Time Security Team Coordination 31:13 - Lateral Movement: How Attacks Spread Across the Workspace 34:25 - Use Cases Involving Google Gemini and AI Exposure Risks 36:36 - Upcoming Features: Deeper Remediation and Contextual Integration 39:30 - Closing Thoughts and Where to Learn More Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
AI is changing cybersecurity at a fundamental level—but how do we decide what to build, and when? In this episode, I outline a structured way to think about AI for security: from foundational ideas to a future-proof system that can scale with emerging threats. • Rethinking Human Workflows as Intelligence Pipelines By mapping tasks into visual workflows, we can pinpoint exactly where human intelligence is still required—and where AI agents are most likely to replace or enhance us. • Using AI to Understand and Manage Organizational State I introduce the concept of AI state management: building systems that track your current and desired security posture in real time, and using AI to bridge the gap—automating insights, decisions, and even actions across your environment. • Building a Cyber Defense Program Inspired by Attacker Playbooks Instead of waiting for threats, I propose a new framework based on attacker capabilities—what they wish they could do now and in the near future—and how to proactively prepare by building a continuously adapting AI-powered defense system. Subscribe to the newsletter at: https://danielmiessler.com/subscribe Join the UL community at: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade Follow on X: https://x.com/danielmiessler Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmiessler Chapters: 00:00 - Framing the Future: Two Key Questions on AI and Cybersecurity 01:28 - Intelligence Pipelines: Visualizing Human Work as Replaceable Workflow 06:10 - Theory of Constraints: How Attackers Are Bottlenecked by Human Labor 10:42 - Defining Agents: What Makes AI Different From Traditional Automation 12:08 - AI State Management: The Universal Use Case for Automated Intelligence 16:53 - Real-World Demo: Unified Context AI for Security Program Management 26:30 - Advanced Uses: Reassigning Projects, Updating KPIs, and Security Reports 34:58 - Automating Security Questionnaires With AI Context Awareness 38:43 - ACAD Framework: Predicting and Preparing for Future Attacker Capabilities 47:40 - Defender Response: Building AI-Driven Red Teams and Internal UCCs 52:25 - Final Answers: How Software and Security Change With AI Agents Become a Member: https://danielmiessler.com/upgrade See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…
 
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