E134: Atheism’s Decline, Consciousness, and The New Right w/ Ross Douthat

"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

Today on Upstream, Ross Douthat joins Erik Torenberg to discuss his new book 'Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious,' exploring the decline of new atheism, the intellectual defense of institutional religion, and the intersection between traditional Christianity, Silicon Valley, and modern materialism.

This episode originally aired on Moment of Zen (April 12, 2025).

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🎙️Moment of Zen

Every week, Erik Torenberg, Dan Romero, Antonio Garcia Martinez and frequent special guests discuss what's happening in technology, business, politics, and beyond.

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LINKS:

Ross Douthat: https://www.nytimes.com/column/ross-douthat

Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious: https://www.zondervan.com/p/believe/

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X / TWITTER:

@DouthatNYT

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

• Ross explains we're at a cultural inflection point where secularization has plateaued and there's evidence of religious revival.
• New atheism has declined as the world hasn't become more reasonable despite becoming less religious.
• Ross argues religion is intellectually defensible based on fine-tuning of the universe and the hard problem of consciousness.
• He contends that merely appreciating religion's social benefits isn't enough—genuine belief is necessary.
• The AI discussion explores whether consciousness might exist beyond materialist explanations.
• They examine tensions in the "New Right" between tech-optimists and religious traditionalists.