Mega Scale Prop Production, with Saurav Shroff (CEO of Starpath)

Valley of Depth

#Trading #Business #Payload Space

35:43

Are you feeling overwhelmed, uninspired, or burned out at work? In this special Unsolicited Advice episode, Anne and Frances are getting ready for summer by tackling the importance of rest and the power of intention. They offer unexpected tips and tricks for recovering from constant stress, owning what you need to feel alive and engaged, and creating an experience of work that unleashes your ambition. Follow Hosts: Anne Morriss ( @annemorriss | LinkedIn: @anne-morriss ), Frances Frei ( @francesxfrei | LinkedIn: @francesfrei ) Links https://anneandfrances.com/ Subscribe to TED Instagram: @ted YouTube: @TED TikTok: @tedtoks LinkedIn: @ted-conferences Website: ted.com Podcasts: ted.com/podcasts For the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/fixable-transcripts For a chance to give your own TED Talk, fill out the Idea Search Application: ted.com/ideasearch . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.…

about a year ago 1:02:33

MP3•Episode home

The cost to build a mass scale propellant production system on the Moon? Much less than $100M according to Starpath cofounder and CEO Saurav Shroff. The LA-based startup is developing the infrastructure for lunar resource extraction—including a power plant, a fleet of rovers, and a processing plant.

In this episode, Saurav breaks down Starpath's approach to off-planet fuel production and how it can enable cost-effective and reusable space travel. He also shares his thoughts on the future of lunar and Martian colonization and how propellant production plays a pivotal role in making interplanetary travel economically viable.

We also discuss:

The technical hurdles of producing propellant on the Moon and Mars
The impact of propellant production on reducing the cost of space travel
The potential customers and business models
How Starpath’s approach complements the vision of companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin
The long-term vision for a human presence on the Moon and Mars, and what it will take to get there

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:25 - What is Startpath?

04:11 - How was Starpath founded?

07:28 - The team

08:55 - Starpath with and without SpaceX

13:20 - Mega scale propellant production

16:30 - What type of propellant is Starpath making?

20:15 - What is Starpath building?

24:56 - Why build this power system yourself and why not nuclear?

28:56 - Plant & Rover

35:35 - Plan for success

39:59 - Speculation on SpaceX's propellant production

43:49 - Who else is a potential customer?

45:49 - Revenue model

48:27 - Investors and common misconceptions

50:26 - Capital needs

51:43 - Competitors? China?

54:37 - First fuel production prediction

56:03 - 10-year vision

58:16 - Other businesses Saurav is excited about

1:00:17 - Which celebrity will play Saurav?

• Show notes •

Starpath’s website — https://starpath.space/

Starpath’s socials — https://twitter.com/StarpathSpace

Sarah’s socials — https://twitter.com/SauravShroff5

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

147 episodes

Valley of Depth

Mega Scale Prop Production, with Saurav Shroff (CEO of Starpath)

Valley of Depth

published about a year ago

MP3•Episode home

We also discuss:

The technical hurdles of producing propellant on the Moon and Mars
The impact of propellant production on reducing the cost of space travel
The potential customers and business models
How Starpath’s approach complements the vision of companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin
The long-term vision for a human presence on the Moon and Mars, and what it will take to get there

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:25 - What is Startpath?

04:11 - How was Starpath founded?

07:28 - The team

08:55 - Starpath with and without SpaceX

13:20 - Mega scale propellant production

16:30 - What type of propellant is Starpath making?

20:15 - What is Starpath building?

24:56 - Why build this power system yourself and why not nuclear?

28:56 - Plant & Rover

35:35 - Plan for success

39:59 - Speculation on SpaceX's propellant production

43:49 - Who else is a potential customer?

45:49 - Revenue model

48:27 - Investors and common misconceptions

50:26 - Capital needs

51:43 - Competitors? China?

54:37 - First fuel production prediction

56:03 - 10-year vision

58:16 - Other businesses Saurav is excited about

1:00:17 - Which celebrity will play Saurav?

• Show notes •

Starpath’s website — https://starpath.space/

Starpath’s socials — https://twitter.com/StarpathSpace

Sarah’s socials — https://twitter.com/SauravShroff5

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

• About us •

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

147 episodes

#Trading #Business #Payload Space

All episodes

Valley of Depth

1
From Seabed to Space, with Tyler Bernstein (CEO of Zeno Power) 50:28

4 days ago50:28

50:28

Some environments are simply too harsh for traditional power sources. Solar panels fail in darkness, batteries die quickly, and diesel can’t reach. That’s where Zeno Power comes in. The company is pioneering nuclear batteries, compact systems that recycle radioactive waste into safe, reliable power for years at a time. On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Tyler Bernstein, co-founder and CEO of Zeno Power. We trace the journey from a Vanderbilt classroom project to a venture-backed company with $70M in private capital, $60M+ in NASA and DoD contracts, and a working nuclear prototype. Tyler shares how Zeno is positioning itself to power critical frontier operations: autonomous systems on the seabed, satellites in orbit, and landers on the Moon. We also discuss: How a nuclear battery works and why Strontium-90 is Zeno’s starting fuel What it takes to safely turn nuclear waste into usable power The use cases that only nuclear batteries can unlock The business model: selling units vs. power-as-a-service vs. revenue sharing Navigating the unique regulatory path for radioisotope systems The risks of scaling a nuclear startup …and much more. This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com . • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro & WSBW Ad 01:26 – Tyler's background and how he came to co-found Zeno Power 04:13 – Is it normal for Vanderbilt to support their students' ideas and startups? 05:11 – Key mentors/validators of Tyler's business 07:06 – Zeno's products and $70M fundraising 09:12 – What is a nuclear battery and how does it work? 12:40 – How Zeno is carefully handling Strontium-90 14:39 – Future use cases for Strontium-90 15:53 – Advantages of nuclear battery 18:09 – Energy limits and stacking 19:30 – DoD and commercial customers 21:20 – Future business model 22:52 – How does Tyler think about pricing? 24:31 – How does regulation look for nuclear batteries? 27:00 – Will there be meaningful change coming out of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)? 29:03 – Competition 31:25 – Turning nuclear waste into valuable power 34:12 – The future of nuclear waste disposal 37:47 – Biggest technical risks Zeno is combating 40:46 – Scaling the Stirling generator 41:49 – Zeno's testing infrastructure 43:08 – What keeps Tyler up at night 47:16 – Is Tyler optimistic about the future of energy in the US? 48:41 – Zeno's legacy in 20 years • Show notes • Zeno Power’s website — https://www.zenopower.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
The Case for Continuity, with Pam Melroy (Former Deputy Administrator of NASA) 1:05:44

11 days ago1:05:44

1:05:44

Continuous human presence in orbit has been a cornerstone of U.S. leadership in space for 25 years. But recent changes to NASA’s Commercial LEO Destinations (CLD) strategy have Pam Melroy—former NASA Deputy Administrator and shuttle commander—sounding the alarm. She warns that shifting to short-duration missions risks ceding leadership in LEO and undermining U.S. readiness for Mars, opening the door for China to take the mantle. On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Pam to talk about the state of NASA, the future of space stations, and why requirements, the often overlooked backbone of program management, will determine whether the U.S. stays ahead. We trace her career from test pilot to shuttle commander to senior leadership at NASA, DARPA, and the FAA, and unpack what it means to build an architecture that actually holds together from LEO to Mars. We also discuss: Why continuous presence in LEO is a national security and leadership issue How the CLD Phase 2 shift could reshape investor and partner confidence The role of SpaceX and Starship in the Moon–Mars roadmap What it takes to write requirements that don’t doom a program from the start Pam’s vision of LEO, the Moon, and Mars in 2045 …and much more. This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com . • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 00:55 – WSBW Ad 01:21 – The key to Pam's success 03:32 – The state of NASA 05:01 – NASA in the next decade if we stay in our current trajectory 06:58 – Why is maintaining a human presence in LEO so important? 10:18 – The changing CLD Strategy 15:29 – Cost and impact of continuous vs 30-day missions 18:01 – NASA's requirements 23:50 – Disintegration of requirements 27:32 – Impact of the shift in CLD strategy 29:52 – Why go back to the Moon? 31:35 – Does the media understand the impact of landing on the Moon and Mars? 35:19 – Why do 30-day missions make sense 37:53 – Will China beat us back to the Moon? 41:41 – Cultural impact if China beats us to the Moon 45:17 – Does the Artemis program have the right architecture to succeed? 47:46 – Is NASA too dependent on SpaceX? 52:47 – How much should the U.S. be interested 56:02 – What did leading the space shuttle teach Pam about leadership? 57:54 – Inspiring the next generation of space exploration 58:46 – Prediction 20 years later 01:01:37 – Aliens? • Show notes • Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Logistics Wins Wars, with David Tuttle (CEO of Rune) 50:37

18 days ago50:37

50:37

Logistics rarely makes headlines, but it wins or loses wars. Rune Technologies is betting that the future of contested sustainment won’t be built on warehouses and spreadsheets, but on software. The company recently raised a $24M Series A to accelerate that vision. On this episode of Valley of Depth , we’re joined by Rune co-founder and CEO David Tuttle to talk about how the company is reimagining military logistics from the ground up. We trace Rune’s path from early prototypes to today’s TyrOS platform, discuss the cultural inertia inside the Pentagon, and unpack what it means to build software that commanders can trust under fire. We also get into: The founding story of Rune and the early technical unlocks Building TyrOS and winning adoption with frontline commands What it takes to design software soldiers actually want to use Why logistics is becoming a strategic lever in great power competition The long-term vision for software-defined sustainment …and much more. This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com . • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:02 – WSBW 01:27 – The story behind the name "Rune" 03:02 – What is Rune building? 04:34 – David's background and how he ended up founding Rune 08:10 – Why David and Peter Goldsborough had to make Rune exist 10:43 – Logistics in warfare 13:02 – How logistics are still being tracked today and why it’s outdated 17:05 – How TyrOS changes the logistics of the battlefield 21:56 – Operating in denied or degraded environments 24:54 – Who's using Rune's products right now and future scaling 29:20 – What has surprised David the most 31:08 – Pilot to program of record with the DoD 33:39 – Competitive landscape 36:01 – Will Rune stay in Defense? 37:30 – Will software like Rune's change military doctrine? 40:28 – Software making decisions in life-or-death scenarios 42:45 – Contrarian beliefs about defense tech 46:12 – Milestones to look out for at Rune 47:32 – What does the US military look like if Rune succeeds? 48:59 – What does David do for fun? • Show notes • Rune’s website — https://www.runetech.co/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Funding Deterrence, with Tommy Hendrix (Managing Partner at Decisive Point) 54:52

25 days ago54:52

54:52

Tommy Hendrix is Managing Partner at Decisive Point, a venture firm backing early-stage companies developing critical national security technologies. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we unpack what it really means to fund the future of national defense and how venture capital is becoming a tool of statecraft. A former Green Beret turned investor, Tommy brings rare insight into the geopolitical stakes, bureaucratic hurdles, and human motivations behind the new national security startup wave. From combat deployments in Iraq to due diligence in D.C., he’s seen the full arc of how technology shapes power. We get into Decisive Point’s playbook, from why it was built, to how it supports founders navigating the defense industrial complex. Tommy also shares lessons from working inside the machine, the firm’s approach to incubation, and how they decide when a startup can actually shift the deterrence equation. We also dive into: The strategic case for funding early Why some military problems aren’t venture-scale What it takes to build “weapons-grade” startups The ethics of AI-enabled kill chains Private capital’s role in a new Cold War How the next great defense companies will be born This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com. • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 01:14 – From Green Beret into venture 04:02 – Deployments that have shaped Tommy's venture career 10:54 – What is broken in the US's current procurement process for defense tech? 14:51 – A future without humans in the kill chain 18:42 – What has changed with defense tech investors? 24:05 – How does Tommy pick the right companies to invest in? 28:57 – Tommy's work in nuclear 32:19 – How helping a portfolio company go through bankruptcy gave Decisive Point a new lens for investment strategies 34:49 – How does the firm make decisions 37:37 – Companies that were good for the nation but difficult to justify long-term venture 39:54 – Must-haves for the US to win the tech race 42:55 – Tech gaps that need more focus 47:00 – Qualities of a founder Tom is looking for 49:22 – What Tom carried over from his military career into his investing career 52:01 – The driving force behind Decisive Point • Show notes • Decisive Point’s website — https://www.decisivepoint.com/ Decisive Point’s socials — https://x.com/decisivepointvc Tommy’s socials — https://x.com/thomasehendrix Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Float. Foil. Fly., with Billy Thalheimer (CEO of Regent Craft) 51:32

5 weeks ago51:32

51:32

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Regent cofounder and CEO Billy Thalheimer to explore a radical reimagining of coastal mobility, not with eVTOLs or hyperloops, but with high-speed electric seagliders that skim just above the water. Part hydrofoil, part aircraft, and fully electric, Regent’s vehicles operate in the sweet spot between aviation and maritime. They’re fast enough to replace short-haul flights, regulated like boats, and increasingly viewed by the Pentagon as a new class of strategic asset. Billy walks us through Regent’s founding story, from MIT aerodynamics to launching the world’s largest electric aircraft-by-another-name. We dive deep into the company’s dual-use strategy, its multibillion-dollar commercial backlog, and its early defense work with the U.S. Marine Corps. We also get into: The technical magic behind “float, foil, fly” Why flying 10 feet above water solves big infrastructure problems Regent’s bet on maritime-first regulation How seagliders fit into Indo-Pacific logistics and contested environments The case for a new coastal transportation layer and why no one’s built it until now • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:01 – Why Rhode Island? 03:15 – Startup community in Rhode Island 07:17 – Founding and origin behind Regent 12:10 – How things have changed since the ekranoplan 19:05 – How Regent's planes handle a rogue wave 20:52 – State of Regent's product build 24:35 – Who will be Regent's first operators? 26:11 – Regent's regulatory process as a maritime vessel 31:59 – What happens when the FAA decides to be involved? 36:02 – Commercial vs government use 38:15 – When did Regent start talking with the DoD? 43:34 – Scaling for dual use commercial vs military 46:34 – Raising $90m and common skeptical questions 49:39 – What does success for Regent look like? • Show notes • Regent’s website — https://www.regentcraft.com/ Regent’s socials — https://x.com/regentcraft Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Pulses Towards Power, with Conner Galloway & Alexander Valys (Co-Founders of Xcimer Energy) 52:40

6 weeks ago52:40

52:40

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Xcimer Energy’s cofounders, Conner Galloway and Alexander Valys, to unpack one of the boldest bets in fusion: resurrecting a Cold War-era laser technology to build the fastest, most scalable path to commercial fusion power. Xcimer has raised over $100 million to bring its inertial confinement fusion system to life, starting with LPK, a high-powered prototype laser built in just four months, and progressing toward Vulcan, a full-scale, ignition-class reactor designed for the grid. We also discuss: Why excimer lasers are making a comeback What Xcimer learned from building LPK in just four months The Phoenix-to-Vulcan roadmap for commercial fusion Lessons from NIF’s ignition milestone and its limits The case for fusion as infrastructure, not just science How Xcimer is positioning itself in a crowded fusion landscape …and much, more. • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:24 – Payload Pro 02:06 – Recent changes in fusion 03:29 – Commercial fusion and perceptions on the tech 05:18 – Founding story of Xcimer 06:51 – Common approaches to fusion today 08:48 – Was the National Ignition Facility (NIF) the catalyst to start Xcimer? 12:22 – Convincing investors to invest $100m into Xcimer 13:34 – What is NIF's goal right now and can it produce electricity? 18:04 – Why hasn't the private sector solved the fusion problem? 20:25 – Xcimer progress report 23:07 – Xcimer's roadmap for the next bigger machine 24:41 – Coming up with Athena 25:33 – Addressing neutron damage 29:54 – The biggest unknown for Xcimer 32:29 – Who are Xcimer's first customers 35:03 – Cost per megawatt per hour to be competitive 37:23 – How much of Xcimer's supply chain is being verticalized 38:48 – Vaporizing a missile with a laser 41:27 – Other fusion companies Alex and Connor admire 44:28 – What inspires a founder or engineer to pursue less proven fusion methods? 47:28 – What drives Alex and Connor to keep on going? 49:02 – First commercial Xcimer fusion plant • Show notes • Xcimer’s website — https://xcimer.energy/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Stratospheric Platforms, with Mikkel Vestergaard (CEO of SCEYE) 44:40

7 weeks ago44:40

44:40

Mikkel Vestergaard isn’t a typical aerospace founder. Before building solar-powered stratospheric airships, he spent two decades in humanitarian innovation, distributing a billion malaria nets, co-creating the LifeStraw, and helping eradicate Guinea worm disease. Now, as CEO of Sceye, he’s applying that same ethos to aerospace. In this conversation, Mikkel dives deep into the origins, design, and future of High-Altitude Platform Systems (HAPS). We explore why the stratosphere is emerging as a new layer of infrastructure, filling the gap between satellites and towers, and how Sceye’s helium-filled, solar-powered airships could reshape internet connectivity, earth observation, and national security. We cover: Why Mikkel pivoted from global health to aerospace The engineering that makes persistent stratospheric flight possible How Sceye closes the “power loop” to stay aloft for months Commercial applications from telecom to methane detection Strategic partnerships with SoftBank, América Móvil, and Mawarid The defense potential of HAPS The business model behind “infrastructure as a service” What it takes to build investor conviction around a platform that feels left-field • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:52 – Life before Sceye 02:51 – Work at Lifestraw 06:31 – What is Lifestraw? 07:50 – Making the pivot from global health to aerospace and working at Sceye 10:52 – HAPS or High-Altitude Platform Systems 12:25 – Why choose a balloon over a fixed wing aircraft? 14:04 – Types of payloads 16:06 – Not Hindenburg 2.0 16:48 – How Mikkel's earlier material science experience shaped Sceye's design decisions 18:09 – Pitching Sceye to investors 19:16 – Common misconceptions of stratospheric platforms 20:41 – What can HAPS do for the telecommunications industry? 25:03 – How many HAPS would we need to provide global coverage? 25:24 – Sceye's equity investor partners 26:00 – When Sceye will be fully commercialized 28:34 – Other use cases 31:33 – Advantages over satellites 32:34 – National security use cases 33:31 – The business model of HAPS 34:52 – Sceye's next iteration of customers 35:40 – How Sceye is building their team 36:56 – Manufacturing process and scaling 37:53 – Capital to scale 38:25 – What keeps Mikkel up at night 39:38 – What does success to Sceye look like • Show notes • SCEYE’s website — https://sceye.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
The Energy Grail, with Julien Barber (Investor at Emerson Collective) 47:44

8 weeks ago47:44

47:44

Julien Barber is an investor at Emerson Collective, a venture and policy firm founded by Laurene Powell Jobs, where he backs bold bets on decarbonization, infrastructure, and long-horizon climate technologies. Before becoming an investor, Julien researched fusion energy at MIT and co-founded a carbon-tech startup. In today’s episode, we go deep into Julien’s investing philosophy, Emerson’s unique model, and the hard tech categories he believes are most undercapitalized. We cover: Why Emerson is structured for risk others can’t take Fusion, fission, and the evolving energy stack AI’s impact on power demand and hardware acceleration How to invest when the grid is the bottleneck Building conviction in hard tech when capital is scarce Public vs. private roles in scaling fusion What a 7-million-fold increase in energy density may actually look like • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:49 – From scientist to investor 04:37 – Why Julien chose fusion 08:57 – Investment process at Emerson 10:08 – The team at Emerson 12:15 – Is Emerson consensus-driven and why is it an LLC? 14:07 – Under-invested areas in climate & industrial tech 17:24 – Are AI valuations reasonable today? 18:59 – Bottlenecks in the grid 23:11 – AI energy consumption: hype or real concern? 27:10 – Bridging the energy gap 29:20 – Fusion’s role in the next decade 31:24 – Google & Commonwealth Fusion: serious commercial signal? 32:37 – Are we underinvesting in fusion? 39:12 – Who will reach commercial fusion first? 41:36 – 30-year future if fusion succeeds • Show notes • Emerson’s socials — https://x.com/emcollective Emerson’s website — https://www.emersoncollective.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Built for Complexity, with John Conafay (CEO of Integrate) 49:00

8 weeks ago49:00

49:00

Welcome to a special Tuesday-edition of Valley of Depth, powered by Integrate. John Conafay spent years inside the space and defense worlds, from Spire to Astranis to the U.S. Air Force, and saw the same problem everywhere: complex programs were managed with spreadsheets, slide decks, and…crossed fingers. So in 2022, he founded Integrate to fix it. What started as a scrappy startup with five engineers has since landed what he describes as one of the largest software contracts in Space Force history. We discuss: Why defense programs are still run on outdated, fragmented tools What Integrate actually does and how it’s different from Smartsheet or Microsoft Project How Conafay won a $25M Space Force contract The architecture choices behind real-time collaboration in classified environments Why internal tools and status quo software can’t scale with complexity And much, much more… • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:57 – John's background 02:59 – What is Integrate? 04:02 – Pain points in complex project management 06:08 – John's interest in aerospace 10:01 – Core product at Integrate 11:20 – Why tools weren't implemented before 12:50 – DoD project management & efficiency loss 14:29 – Multiplayer coordination approach 16:19 – Hardest integration problem 17:40 – Security architecture 20:17 – Go-to-market & government entry 22:18 – $25M Space Force contract 26:14 – Future Space Force goals 27:59 – Government vs commercial customers 29:16 – Pricing 30:13 – Profitability, team, funding, scaling 32:23 – Ideal investor 33:20 – Competitors 34:50 – Competing with internal tools 36:01 – 10-year product vision 37:36 – Strategic risks in the next decade 39:42 – Hardest part of building Integrate 41:34 – Misconceptions about working with the DoD 42:55 – Advice for founders & younger self 43:53 – John in another life • Show notes • John’s socials — https://x.com/jconafay Integrate’s socials —https://x.com/Integrate_co Integrate’s website — https://integrate.co/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Back from the Dead, with Chris Kemp (CEO of Astra) 59:03

9 weeks ago59:03

59:03

Chris Kemp took Astra public in 2021 with a bold vision: low-cost rockets launching daily, bringing sovereign space access to every country on Earth. At its peak, the company was worth over $2 billion. Within two years, that valuation collapsed by 99%. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we go inside one of the most dramatic flameouts and attempted comebacks in the commercial space era. We discuss: Why Astra’s SPAC-era promises didn’t survive contact with reality What really went wrong with Rocket 3 and how much of that falls on Kemp The decision to take the company private and buy it back for pennies on the dollar How Astra raised $80M, and its attempt to raise another $100M+ The quiet success of its satellite propulsion business Rocket 4, and whether this time is actually different How Kemp is repositioning Astra as a mobile, defense-aligned launch platform • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:53 – What's happened since 2022? 02:58 – What kept Astra going after test flight failures? 06:46 – Did Astra's engineering approach work against them? 08:15 – What Chris believes he got wrong 12:51 – Has Chris questioned his leadership at Astra? 14:37 – What would Chris have done differently? 16:34 – Taking Astra private & investor reactions 20:58 – What Chris saw more than anyone else 22:20 – Team and factory space at Astra 23:20 – Chris's philosophy on rocket building 25:54 – Rocket 4 vs Rocket 3 30:35 – Astra’s renewed business model 34:11 – Why is Rocket Lab valued at $16B? 36:21 – Engine business & customer trust 39:25 – NASA & Astra 39:49 – Post-privatization investment 45:18 – The team at Astra 47:08 – What went wrong with Astra's infamous flight 47:54 – Chris's evolving leadership style 50:05 – Chris's hardest moment at Astra 50:49 – Unfair criticisms of Chris 51:54 – What present Chris would tell past Chris 53:12 – What keeps Chris going 54:57 – Would Astra go public again? 57:51 – Astra milestones to watch • Show notes • Chris’ socials — https://x.com/Kemp Astra’s socials —https://x.com/astra Astra’s website — https://astra.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Rapid Maneuverability, with Jeff Thornburg (CEO of Portal Space Systems) 59:51

10 weeks ago59:51

59:51

Jeff Thornburg helped build Raptor at SpaceX. Now he’s building something new: a spacecraft designed for rapid maneuverability across orbits powered by solar thermal propulsion. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we get into the technical, strategic, and commercial implications of in-space mobility and why it matters now. Topics include: The hardest parts of building a rocket engine (and why most startups get it wrong) The origins of the Raptor engine and lessons from SpaceX Why Portal is betting on solar thermal propulsion How Supernova enables fast, responsive movement across LEO, MEO, and GEO The case for refueling in orbit and designing without dependencies Why defense needs faster spacecraft and what commercial use cases follow How Thornburg sees Starship changing the economics of space and much more… • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:44 – What drew Jeff to creating engines? 05:13 – Why is building rocket engines still so difficult? 11:50 – Jeff's time at SpaceX 17:52 – Stratolaunch and Commonwealth Fusion and why Jeff moved on 22:50 – Origin of Portal 25:25 – Commercial use case 27:00 – 5 year vision for Portal's architecture 32:01 – Pricing 34:52 – Solar thermal propulsion 38:14 – What comes after Portal's Supernova? 41:15 – Customer traction and Supernova flight 45:44 – Competition in solar thermal propulsion 49:20 – Fundraising prior to the first launch 51:18 – Portal in the next 10 years 54:53 – State of Starship • Show notes • Jeff’s socials — https://x.com/JeffThornburg Antares’ socials — https://x.com/PortalSpaceSys Antares’ website — https://www.portalsystems.space/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Strategic Nuclear Energy, with Jordan Bramble (CEO of Antares) 48:21

11 weeks ago48:21

48:21

In the wake of new executive orders elevating nuclear energy as a national security priority, there’s growing momentum—and urgency—behind advanced fission technologies. Few are better positioned to talk about this shift than Jordan Bramble, co-founder and CEO of Antares Nuclear, a startup building microreactors for defense and space. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we explore the strategic, technical, and geopolitical dimensions driving the nuclear renaissance. We cover: • Why microreactors are built for strategic energy and not just the grid • The real story behind public support for nuclear energy • How Antares plans to deploy sub-megawatt nuclear systems on U.S. military installations • The challenges of fuel supply, regulation, and capital • Why China is pulling ahead and what the U.S. must do to catch up • Nuclear-powered space assets and propulsion • Why Jordan believes venture-scale outcomes are coming to nuclear energy • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 00:56 - Payload Pro 01:39 - State of fission 03:38 - Is renewed nuclear interest driven by political or environmental factors? 05:23 - Are small modular reactors (SMRs) going to replace large, conventional nuclear reactors? 07:31 - Is nuclear still a controversial topic? 09:27 - Cultural legacy of nuclear in media 11:49 - Antares and how Jordan got into nuclear 14:16 - What does 1 Megawatt mean? 15:53 - Game changing environments for Antares's SMR 19:30 - Terrestrial business model 20:39 - Nuclear fuel supply chain 21:35 - Current state and future prediction of fuel pipeline 23:42 - Safety in contested environments 26:49 - Hardest technical challenges 29:52 - What will it take to get to their first electron 31:23 - Competition 34:27 - US vs its adversaries 36:29 - Navigating regulatory guidelines 38:10 - Impact of Trump's Executive Orders 40:03 - NRC 41:12 - Are we living in a VC renaissance for nuclear? 44:05 - What drives Jordan to work on nuclear? 46:30 - For those afraid of nuclear • Show notes • Jordan’s socials — https://x.com/jordanbramble Antares’ socials — https://x.com/AntaresNuclear Antares’ website — https://boomsupersonic.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. • Payload: www.payloadspace.com • Ignition: www.ignition-news.com • Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

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The Future of Supersonic, with Blake Scholl (CEO of Boom Supersonic) 56:28

13 weeks ago56:28

56:28

In a major shift, the U.S. government is moving to overturn a 50-year ban on civilian supersonic flight over land—a regulation that’s defined the boundaries of commercial aviation since 1973. It’s a pivotal moment for aerospace, and a timely one for this conversation with Blake Scholl, founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we dive into the political, technical, and economic forces driving the return of high-speed air travel. We cover: Why the U.S. banned supersonic flight and why that’s finally changing How Boom plans to make supersonic flight sustainable and commercially viable The decision to build a new engine in-house after legacy players stepped away What the real economics of airline orders look like and who’s truly onboard How regulatory shifts, geopolitical dynamics, and climate pressure intersect And why Blake believes faster travel isn’t just a luxury, it’s a necessity …and much more. • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 01:07 - Payload Pro ad 01:49 - Supersonic ban repeal 03:48 - Why were supersonic planes banned in the first place? 08:47 - Next steps for supersonic 11:10 - How long until we get a supersonic jet? 12:34 - Why Blake started Boom 16:00 - Why now for supersonic? 18:23 - State of China's commercial supersonic space 19:48 - Boom Supersonic's engines 23:56 - When will the Symphony Engine having a working model? 29:09 - Engineer challenges beyond the engine 29:52 - Engineering the quiet boom 33:49 - What does a sonic boom sound and feel like? 36:11 - Vertical integration 38:05 - Routes that Overture would fly first 38:47 - How much capital would Boom Supersonic need to build their first plane? 40:12 - What did Aerion get wrong? 44:22 - What will the supersonic competition look like? 45:35 - Northrop Grumman partnership 49:58 - Blake's mission behind Boom 52:60 - What will Boom look like in the future? • Show notes • Boom Supersonic’s socials — https://x.com/boomaero Blake’s socials — https://x.com/bscholl Boom’s website — https://boomsupersonic.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Space Superiority, with Even Rogers (CEO of True Anomaly) 1:00:37

14 weeks ago1:00:37

1:00:37

If the next great war is fought in space, Even Rogers wants the U.S. to be ready. On this episode of Valley of Depth, the True Anomaly CEO and former Air Force weapons officer joins us to break down how he’s building autonomous systems for space superiority and why space is the next warfighting domain. A graduate of the Air Force Weapons School, Even brings rare tactical and strategic insight into how the U.S. must fight and win in orbit. In this episode, we unpack the doctrine, technology, and strategy shaping the next phase of military competition in space. We cover: Why 2007 was the turning point for space as a warfighting domain How to think about offense, deterrence, and domain control in orbit What the Space Force needs—and why $60B is the real number The role of private industry vs. the primes in defense innovation Golden Dome, missile defense, and the future of space-based interceptors …plus how we may one day have Guardians stationed permanently in space. Check out Valley of Depth #007 on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 00:57 - Payload Pro 01:39 - True Anomaly's mission 02:51 - How Even started the company 04:02 - $220m Series C 05:48 - When did space become a place to defend? 09:20 - The challenge to US space dominance 11:16 - What made Even realize that the US was unprepared? 16:05 - What does space superiority look like? 17:49 - What does space warfare actually mean? 21:48 - The R&D the Space Force needs 24:01 - What it meant to form the Space Force 27:11 - The cultural shift on the Space Force 30:49 - Current US Space capabilities and gaps 32:44 - Why was the Space Force budget cut despite its importance? 35:06 - Primes and the US's space capabilities 37:12 - Procurement for the space domain 41:29 - Space components of the Golden Dome 43:35 - Phases of a ballistic missile 44:56 - Intercepting missiles at its boost phase 46:15 - What to prioritize today for space superiority 49:20 - Guardians in space 51:20 - Moon & Mars 52:40 - Lessons learned for the next True Anomaly mission 56:01 - What is the strategic impact True Anomaly is hoping to have? 57:31 - Will NASA blur the lines between civil and military? • Show notes • True Anomaly’s socials — https://x.com/the_trueanomaly Even’s socials — https://x.com/jollyrogersta True Anomaly’s website — https://www.trueanomaly.space/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Asymmetric Naval Power, with Paul Lwin (CEO of HavocAI) 41:57

15 weeks ago41:57

41:57

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer. In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover: Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seed How Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindset The difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomy Why primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price point How Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoD What it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific …and much more. Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters • 0:00 - Intro 1:07 - Company Mission & Vision 3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration 6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline 8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters 10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech 12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy 14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps 16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy 17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap 21:21 - Commercial Market Potential 24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved 26:48 - Contested Environment Design 28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech 30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements 32:09 - Competitive Differentiation 33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages 35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact 36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures 37:44 - Desired Policy Changes 39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements 40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes • Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USV Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Redefining Air Mobility, with Marc Allen (CEO of Electra) 45:51

16 weeks ago45:51

45:51

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Marc Allen, CEO of Electra and former Chief Strategy Officer at Boeing. After nearly two decades at one of aerospace’s most iconic companies, Marc stepped away—and then doubled down—on aviation with a bold bet: a hybrid-electric aircraft that takes off in 150 feet, carries 1,000 pounds, and can land almost anywhere. In this episode, Marc breaks down why the future of flight is short-runway, low-noise, and mission-flexible—and how Electra’s EL-9 is carving out a new category of aircraft entirely. We also get into: Why hybrid-electric beats all-electric How Electra won over DOD and NASA The military’s growing demand for quiet, flexible airlift Why rotorcraft are ripe for disruption The company’s $13B+ order book And how Marc thinks about scaling from Boeing to startup • Chapters • 0:00 - Episode Introduction 0:58 - Marc's Transition: Boeing to Electra 3:13 - Electric Propulsion Breakthrough Moment 4:29 - Electra's Core Technology 5:17 - Importance of Electric Aircraft 6:52 - EL9 vs Helicopter Comparison 7:30 - Safety Features 10:06 - Automation Capabilities 10:54 - Charging Infrastructure 11:18 - Technology Maturity Level 12:41 - EL9 Market Potential 15:57 - Current Demand & Use Cases 18:17 - Operator Economics 20:20 - Air Force Partnership 21:16 - Defense Applications 23:43 - Autonomous Potential 24:41 - Future Aircraft Versions 26:08 - NASA's Interest 26:47 - Civil vs Defense Models 27:21 - Manufacturing Process 29:15 - Certification Timeline 31:32 - Key Challenges 34:24 - Fundraising Status 36:32 - Commercialization Costs 38:00 - Upcoming Milestones 38:24 - Team Size 39:03 - Scaling From Large to Small Company 41:15 - OEM Strategy 41:50 - 10-Year Vision 42:44 - Marc's Personal Interests 43:40 - Pilot Training Requirements • Show notes • Electra’s socials — https://x.com/ElectraAero Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
The Next Supercycle, with Erik Kriessmann (Partner at Altimeter) 51:56

17 weeks ago51:56

51:56

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Erik Kriessmann, Partner at Altimeter – the $10B crossover firm known for backing generational companies across tech, defense, and space. From sourcing early-stage deals to helping build world-class teams, Erik’s path into venture started with a deep focus on talent, giving him a rare edge in identifying high-potential founders and building lasting partnerships. In this episode, Erik shares how Altimeter thinks about concentrated investing, why the firm bets big on supercycles, and what it takes to earn a seat at the table with the best teams in tech. We also cover: How Altimeter defines a “supercycle” The firm’s bets across AI, defense, and aerospace What separates a good founder from a great one Why Altimeter backed Anduril and K2 His take on the Mars hype (spoiler: not yet) And how SpaceX changed the game for everyone …and much more. • Chapters • 0:00 - Intro 1:05 - Did Erik know he was going to be an investor? 1:44 - Erik's career journey 9:05 - Going from building talent teams to working with CEOs directly 12:07 - The investment philosophy core to Altimeter's growth 15:31 - Public vs private side of Altimeter 16:42 - How decisions get made 19:35 - What is today's super cycle? 21:14 - What technologies is Altimeter currently excited about? 22:40 - What does Erik look for in a founder? 24:25 - How do geopolitics weigh in on Altimeter's investments? 27:20 - Space super cycle 28:56 - What is Erik on the lookout for in the space industry 31:04 - How about Mars? 33:42 - Why did Altimeter first invest in Anduril? 36:09 - Navigating the DoD procurement process 37:50 - Expanding margin with the government customer 40:27 - Are we in a defense tech bubble? 41:56 - Has Altimeter invested in pure play defense names outside of Anduril? 44:03 - Exit paths for Altimeter's investments 45:34 - Foreign defense investment opportunities 47:34 - What would Erik be doing if he wasn't an investor? 49:42 - What's Erik listening to these days? • Show notes • Erik’s socials — https://x.com/ekriessmann Brad’s socials — https://x.com/altcap Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

1
Engineered for Impact, with Christian Garcia (Partner at Breakthrough Energy Ventures) 57:23

18 weeks ago57:23

57:23

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Christian Garcia, Partner at Breakthrough Energy Ventures — the Bill Gates-backed climate fund investing in bold technologies to accelerate the energy transition across every sector of the economy. With portfolio companies tackling everything from geologic hydrogen to reusable rockets, BEV is redefining what it means to scale climate impact through hard tech. In this conversation, Christian shares how BEV thinks about breakthrough innovation, what makes a venture-backable climate solution, and why some of the most disruptive ideas look impossible—until they’re not. We also get into: BEV’s origin story How climate and national security are converging The firm’s approach to fusion, hydrogen, and aerospace Why BEV backed both CFS and Pacific Fusion What drew Christian to space — and Stoke Space in particular And his take on what’s really being underestimated in climate today • Chapters • 0:00 - Intro 1:04 - What is Breakthrough Energy Ventures and how is it different from a typical fund? 2:26 - BEV's investors and why are they interested 5:45 - Is there a defense interest at BEV? 9:00 - How did Christian get into this space? 11:13 - What is BEV currently focused on? 14:17 - What type of breakthrough is BEV investing in and when? 17:16 - Firms BEV co-invests with 18:34 - Seed and Pre-seed investing 25:43 - What is the goal of investing in multiple fusion companies? 30:23 - How does space fit in BEV's climate portfolio? 34:23 - How do you separate bold vision from wishful thinking? 38:03 - Balancing science and storytelling 42:08 - Tech that Christian has passed on 45:37 - A BEV company that Christian thinks will shock the world with its success 48:48 - What are some common misconceptions about climate tech? 51:28 - Rapidfire questions • Show notes • BEV’s website — https://www.breakthroughenergy.org/our-work/breakthrough-energy-ventures/ BEV’s socials — https://x.com/Breakthrough Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

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Breakthrough Orbital Platforms, with Tejpaul Bhatia (CEO of Axiom Space) 1:09:33

19 weeks ago1:09:33

1:09:33

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Tejpaul Bhatia, the newly appointed CEO of Axiom Space — a company building one of the first commercial space stations and leading private human spaceflight missions to low Earth orbit. The company is gearing up for Ax-4, Axiom’s fourth mission to the ISS, which will fly astronauts from Poland, Hungary, and India under the command of Axiom astronaut Peggy Whitson. In his first interview (and podcast) as CEO, Tejpaul shares what the leadership transition means for Axiom, why he sees the company as a “forever business,” and how he plans to scale its station, suits, and astronaut programs into a thriving orbital economy. We also get into: Tejpaul’s journey from startup founder to Axiom CEO The state of the space station market and the case for demand What investors misunderstand about orbital infrastructure Axiom’s shifting revenue mix and modular station roadmap His take on the CLD program and U.S. industrial strategy How Tejpaul thinks about scaling trust, culture, and ambition in space • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 00:59 Tejpaul's transition into the CEO role 03:25 Tejpaul's background before Axiom 08:03 Reaction to being offered CRO role 10:50 Previous CEO's departure 12:57 Preserving vs evolving at Axiom 14:23 Initial priorities as CEO 19:06 Free-flying space station market 24:37 Number of future space station operators 27:06 Science projects vs commercial viability 32:44 Current and future revenue streams 38:11 Commercial Low-Earth Orbit Destination (CLD) 41:21 Moving beyond NASA dependence 45:45 Technical roadmap 47:19 Astronaut program pricing 53:21 What investors miss about stations 56:04 Capital requirements and fundraising 01:00:07 Cost of first station 01:01:35 Axiom & SpaceX relationship 01:04:40 Tejpaul's personal interests • Show notes • Axiom’s website — https://axiomspace.com/ Axiom’s socials — https://x.com/Axiom_Space Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

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Hypersonic Power Play, with Bryon Hargis (CEO of Castelion) 56:14

20 weeks ago56:14

56:14

We’re excited to launch Valley of Depth , our new podcast taking the place of our beloved (formerly known as) Pathfinder (RIP) podcast. Valley of Depth is about the technologies that matter—and the people building them. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. In our inaugural episode, EP 001, we’re joined by Bryon Hargis, co-founder and CEO of Castelion, a venture-backed defense startup building affordable, mass-producible hypersonic missile systems for the U.S. and allied militaries. Castelion, founded by former SpaceX engineers, is taking a vertically integrated, fast-iteration approach to strike weapons—redefining how complex defense hardware is built. In this episode, we unpack the story behind Castelion’s formation, the rising hypersonic threat from China, how startups are challenging the dominance of traditional primes—and much, much more… • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 00:52 What inspired Bryan to leave SpaceX and start Castelion? 03:06 Non-nuclear deterrence 05:15 How SpaceX's culture influenced Castelion 07:44 Current team size 08:07 Cultural shift in defense hiring 10:04 Hypersonic missile advantages 12:03 US vs China capabilities 13:32 Tradeoffs vs exquisite systems 16:08 What's behind Bryon 18:02 Recent test results 20:54 Iterating safely 24:27 Castelion's DoD buyer 26:56 Navigating defense acquisition 32:11 Championing innovation 35:17 The Golden Dome concept 37:10 Requirements for Golden Dome 39:21 Startups vs primes race 40:49 Scaling missile production timeline 42:48 European market potential 44:19 Competition with defense primes 45:49 Capital requirements 47:26 Company vision 49:13 World impact if successful 50:48 Next milestones 52:14 Story behind the name • Show notes • Castelion’s website — https://www.castelion.com/ Bryon’s socials — https://x.com/hargsb Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com…

Valley of Depth

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Beyond the Brief, with Ed Fyfe (Founder of Ed Fyfe Design) 57:43

29 weeks ago57:43

57:43

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Ed Fyfe, founder of Ed Fyfe Design, a creative studio focused on branding and visual identity for space and hardware companies. With a background in agency work and a passion for the space industry, Ed has built a reputation for helping companies craft compelling brand identities that stand out in a crowded market. In this episode, we explore the role of branding and design in the space industry and why it’s more than just a logo—it’s a strategic asset. We also discuss: – Ed’s journey from working in consumer branding to launching his own space-focused design practice – The importance of branding for space companies and when founders should prioritize it – How SpaceX, NASA, and other major players have influenced space industry branding – Common branding mistakes in the sector and how to avoid them – The impact of branded hardware and creative storytelling in making space companies memorable – The role of brand partnerships and what makes a good collaboration And more… • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 00:53 Ed's journey in design and branding 03:45 Why is branding and design important? 05:26 Why and when should a space company care about branding? 08:45 Why should a space company be thinking about branding? 10:38 Common branding mistakes space companies make 13:33 How much of brand identity is instinct? 15:38 How much of NASA's legacy influenced modern branding strategies 18:35 Historical branding elements in the space industry 21:56 How do you translate a company's vision into a brand identity? 33:34 EO industry's branding 39:43 Branded hardware 45:08 What are brand partnerships and do they matter? 50:14 Advice for space startups on beginning with a strong differentiated brand? 55:09 How to find, connect, and work with Ed • Show notes • Ed's website — https://edfyfedesign.com/ Ed's email — edfyfedesign@gmail.com Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

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Inside SpaceX's Revenue, with Jack Kuhr (Research Director at Payload) 43:22

30 weeks ago43:22

43:22

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jack Kuhr, Research Director at Payload, for a deep dive into one of the most closely watched companies in the space industry—SpaceX. We break down Payload’s latest analysis of SpaceX’s revenue, exploring how the company’s launch business and Starlink network are shaping its financial trajectory. With our estimate of SpaceX’s 2024 revenue at $13.1 billion, this episode unpacks the numbers, key growth drivers, and what’s next. We also discuss: How Payload builds its SpaceX revenue model and refines estimates year after year The breakdown of SpaceX’s revenue across launch, Starlink, and other government contracts The rapid growth of Starlink—now at 4.6 million customers—and where the business is headed The future of Starship and its impact on Falcon 9, launch pricing, and industry competition Potential financial winners and losers when Starship becomes fully operational Speculative questions on SpaceX’s future, from a possible IPO to whether it can become the first trillion-dollar space company And more… • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 01:02 Jack's background 02:16 Constructing the SpaceX revenue estimates 06:17 How close our predictions were 08:01 Numbers rundown 10:02 SpaceX's percentage of global launch 10:45 SpaceX's price per launch 12:26 Does SpaceX need Starling to stay profitable? 13:55 When will Starship launch paying customers? 15:44 Starlink's next-gen satellites 18:19 Starlink's sub growth 20:38 Evolution of Starlink's pricing power 22:51 Where does SpaceX see the most growth? 25:12 Starlink's scalability and will it ever reach 50+ million customers? 29:03 SpaceX's other revenue generator 31:10 Will Starship make Falcon 9 obsolete? 32:37 Who loses when Starship becomes fully operational? 34:05 Will demand make up for the loss of cost per kilogram? 36:33 If SpaceX was a public company, how would investors react to these revenue figures? 39:19 Which SpaceX revenue stream could 10x? 41:03 Will SpaceX be the first trillion-dollar space company? • Show notes • Estimating SpaceX’s 2024 Revenue — https://payloadspace.com/estimating-spacexs-2024-revenue/ Jack’s socials — https://x.com/JackKuhr Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Space to Grow, with Matt Weinzierl and Brendan Rosseau 1:02:32

31 weeks ago1:02:32

1:02:32

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Matt Weinzierl, Chair of the MBA Program and Professor at Harvard Business School, and Brendan Rosseau, a member of the strategy team for launch at Blue Origin. Together, they’ve co-authored Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier, a new book exploring the history, key players, and economic forces driving the momentum behind the space industry. We discuss: The evolution of space economics and how government-private sector dynamics are changing The role of NASA as an anchor customer and whether the model has limits The rise of defense-focused pivots in commercial space companies Market competition and whether we’re seeing monopolization in space The economic case for lunar activity, space stations, and emerging industries The biggest risks that could stall commercial space progress Their book launches on February 25, and this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the economic forces shaping the future of space. You can order here ! • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 04:00 HBS’s Space Program 06:36 An introduction to “Space to Grow” 08:50 The shift from space to defense 13:02 What to expect from the book 16:56 Space competition or monopolization? 21:52 How classic economic principles apply to space 29:24 Are we transitioning away from NASA to anchor customers? 33:36 Does space have the right financing structures in place to build this industry? 38:47 Economic case for the Moon (Mars?) 44:16 Viability of space stations 48:22 What space industries have the best economic potential in the next couple decades? 52:32 Biggest impediment to the space industry 55:43 Key takeaways from “Space to Grow” 59:05 Matt and Brendan's favorite books 01:01:13 Where to find Matt and Brendan • Show notes • Space to Grow — https://www.amazon.com/Space-Grow-Unlocking-Economic-Frontier/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Subsurface Vision, with Jeremiah Pate (CEO of Lunasonde) 43:37

32 weeks ago43:37

43:37

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jeremiah Pate, founder and CEO of Lunasonde, a company pioneering subsurface imaging from space. Lunasonde is developing technology to map the Earth’s underground, leveraging low-frequency synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to identify critical minerals and resources. With two satellites launched and the first full-tech satellite in their constellation set to launch in July, this episode dives into how Lunasonde is reshaping resource exploration. We also discuss: Lunasonde’s founding story and Jeremiah’s inspiration for the company The fundamentals of subsurface SAR and how it differs from traditional radar technologies The company’s royalty-based business model and its potential to disrupt the critical minerals industry Real-world applications, including a breakthrough discovery of a previously unknown copper deposit The long-term vision for Lunasonde, including applications beyond Earth and mapping resources on the Moon and asteroids Insights on the challenges of scaling a space startup and navigating regulatory barriers And more… • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 03:04 What is SAR? 05:19 What is subsurface? 06:29 Critical minerals and Lunasonde's approach to the market 07:49 Size & demand 10:20 System architecture 11:28 Lunasonde's launches 12:02 Interpreting SAR data 13:27 SubSAR vs seismic imaging or ground penetrating radar 15:25 Environmental reasons behind building subSAR 16:22 How to ensure accuracy and reliability of the data 17:08 Corona satellites 20:48 How does Lunasonde convince ideal customers to embrace new technologies? 22:48 Examples of discovering new deposits 24:09 Lunasonde's competitors 26:02 Why do people think subSAR is impossible? 27:12 Going beyond the Earth 28:39 Other revenue models 30:27 Commercial vs government traction 31:27 Is Lunasonde looking for partnerships with space mining startups? 32:14 Scaling path 33:09 Funding 34:11 What keeps Jeremiah up at night? 34:52 Long-term vision 36:53 Could orgs like NASA use Lunasonde's capabilities for more intensive resource hunting missions? 38:28 What would Jeremiah like to change in the space industry? 40:51 If Jeremiah wasn't working at Lunasonde, where would he like to work? • Show notes • Lunasonde’s website — https://www.lunasonde.com/ Lunasonde’s socials — https://x.com/Lunasonde/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Spectral Revolution, with Awais Ahmed (CEO of Pixxel) 54:10

33 weeks ago54:10

54:10

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Awais Ahmed, founder and CEO of Pixxel, a company focused on developing hyperspectral imaging technology from space. Pixxel is developing the world’s first commercial hyperspectral satellite constellation, aiming to provide detailed insights into critical industries like agriculture, energy, and defense. With the recent launch of three Firefly satellites—the first in Pixxel’s commercial fleet—this episode explores the company’s progress and vision for the future of Earth observation. We also discuss: Pixxel’s founding story and Awais’ background in satellite engineering and Hyperloop competitions The fundamentals of hyperspectral imaging and its advantages over traditional imaging methods Pixxel’s satellite constellation plans and how they’re balancing commercial and government markets The role of AI in satellite imaging and its potential to unlock new applications Awais’ take on the evolving Earth observation market and the challenges of scaling a space startup And more… • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 00:48 - Impact of the new administration 02:32 - The story behind Pixxel 07:37 - Hyperspectral imaging 11:14 - How hyperspectral fits into the other types of satellite imaging 15:01 - How big is the satellite imaging market today? 17:30 - Government uses and advancements in hyperspectral 21:30 - Established commercial vs growing government markets 25:23 - What does Pixxel's constellation look like? 27:22 - Firefly vs Honeybee 28:03 - Customer experience at Pixxel 29:46 - AI's impact 33:44 - Most valuable part of the EO stack 36:05 - Starlink architecture and other EO businesses 37:49 - Pixxel's commercial traction 39:27 - What's a good margin profile? 42:01 - Valuation of public EO businesses 45:19 - Raising private capital in EO and fundraising plans 48:37 - Pixxel in 2035 50:22 - What else excites Awais besides EO? 51:29 - Pixxel's US office • Show notes • Pixxel’s website — https://www.pixxel.space/ Pixxel’s socials — https://x.com/PixxelSpace Awais’ socials — https://x.com/awaisahmedna Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
First Check, with Adam Draper (Founder of Boost VC) 57:48

34 weeks ago57:48

57:48

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome Adam Draper, founder and managing director of Boost VC, an early-stage venture capital firm based in San Mateo, CA, specializing in pre-seed deals in deep tech, including space. Boost VC’s track record includes early investments in space companies such as Varda, Starfish Space, and K2 Space. This episode explores the philosophy and strategy behind the firm’s approach to venture capital. In addition, we discuss: Adam’s journey into VC and the Draper family legacy in the industry The firm’s commitment to backing “impossible” ideas and frontier technologies Insights into investing in deep tech, from identifying committed founders to understanding market risks The importance of storytelling and momentum in aerospace and defense startups Boost’s role in shaping the future of space industries, from lunar water mining to satellite servicing and space manufacturing Predictions for the future of space and deep tech, including the rise of biopharma in orbit and even the search for extraterrestrial life And much more… • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 00:45 - Adam's background 07:48 - Boost VC 11:57 - How do you tell a founder has commitment? 14:04 - Signs of a founder with a real interest in space 17:54 - Making the case for the space market 20:51 - On the frontier 23:01 - Signs Adam looks for when he needs to step in and direct a company 28:20 - Investing in software vs. deep tech 30:43 - Early-stage pre-seed investing 38:07 - How would a founder differentiate themselves when it comes to fundraising? 43:25 - How to stay ahead of the curve with investing in space 48:36 - Craziest space deal Adam has invested in 51:46 - Adam's 2025 predictions • Show notes • Boost VC website — https://www.boost.vc/ Boost’s socials — https://x.com/BoostVC Adam’s socials — https://x.com/AdamDraper Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Mach 1, Dawn Rises, with Stefan Powell (CEO of Dawn Aerospace) 1:00:50

35 weeks ago1:00:50

1:00:50

This week on Pathfinder, we’re ready to kick off 2025 with our first episode back from a brief holiday hiatus. Joining us is Stefan Powell, co-founder and CEO of Dawn Aerospace—a company focused on building scalable, sustainable space transportation solutions. After cutting their teeth with an in-space propulsion business, Dawn is now pushing the boundaries with Aurora, a rocket-powered plane that recently breaking the sound barrier (or Mach 1). In this episode, we explore: From Student Rocket Club to Thriving Venture: Stefan’s background and how his early rocketry experiences shaped Dawn’s mission. Satellite Propulsion: Why Dawn’s safer, scalable alternatives to traditional satellite fuel are gaining traction in the market—and how they enable near-term revenue. Aurora’s Breakthrough Flight: Hitting Mach 1.1, testing supersonic aerodynamics, and the path toward suborbital flight capabilities. Hypersonics & Beyond: Why government R&D and military programs are pouring billions into hypersonics research—and how Dawn plans to help solve the “access-to-test-time” gap. Aircraft-Like Space Access: Dawn’s long-term vision for truly rapid, reusable, runway-based vehicles that could revolutionize launch operations. Building for the Future, One Step at a Time: How Stefan thinks about scaling, capital efficiency, and bridging near-term commercial opportunities with an ambitious roadmap. …and much, more. • Chapters • 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:45 - Founding Dawn 00:06:33 - Core products 00:08:52 - Sustainability 00:11:25 - How Stefan got into the space industry 00:16:20 - What Stefan is developing with Aurora 00:19:09 - Recent flight 00:20:38 - Why is it important to go past Mach 1? 00:24:02 - Technical milestones before full orbital capabilities 00:26:43 - Hypersonics and building commercial ability 00:30:23 - Government customers 00:31:39 - Opportunities in hypersonic weapons? 00:33:02 - Payload capacity of first commercial launch vehicle 00:33:58 - Long-term scaling goals 00:37:15 - What is so difficult about building commercial hypersonic platforms? 00:42:05 - Most significant hurdles when it comes to scaling and manufacturing 00:44:32 - Building in New Zealand 00:46:38 - Revenue mix 00:48:15 - Capital efficiency 00:51:47 - Effect of Starship on the launch market 00:53:42 - What does success look like for Dawn over the next 10 years 00:56:25 - What Stefan has learned about being a CEO/Founder for 15 years 00:58:11 - Everything's on the table • Show notes • Dawn’s website — https://www.dawnaerospace.com/ Dawn’s socials — https://x.com/DawnAerospace Stefan’s socials — https://x.com/Stefan__Powell Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Nuclear Power and Propulsion for a Lunar Architecture, with Joe Miller (BWXT) & Kerry Timmons (LMT) 52:22

38 weeks ago52:22

52:22

Quick PSA: This is our final Pathfinder episode of 2024! We’re so grateful for your support and can’t wait to bring you more content and a new format next year. Stay tuned! In our third and final episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re focusing on how nuclear-enabled technologies will power and propel a sustainable future on the Moon. This episode ties together the insights from the series and offers a vision of how energy systems will enable humans to survive on the lunar surface and venture deeper into the solar system. Joining us are Kerry Timmons, Senior Manager of Business Development at Lockheed Martin for Lunar Infrastructure, and Joe Miller, President of BWXT Advanced Technologies. Together, they share their perspective on the role nuclear power and propulsion play in supporting a long-term presence on the Moon. We also discuss: How nuclear technologies provide reliable power during the lunar night and beyond The engineering challenges and solutions for deploying nuclear systems The interplay between nuclear and solar energy in a resilient lunar grid Applications for nuclear thermal propulsion The collaborative efforts required across government, industry, and international partners to make this a reality And much, much more… • Chapters • 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:05 - Joe's background 00:02:47 - Kerry's background 00:04:19 - Vision for a thriving lunar infrastructure 00:07:13 - Nuclear and space 00:08:48 - Lockheed's history with nuclear 00:10:23 - Lessons from history that make current power systems in space more efficient 00:13:00 - Nuclear's importance for a sustained lunar presence 00:16:09 - Engineering challenges 00:18:54 - How does mass play a role in the design of the nuclear reactor? 00:20:24 - What will these reactors power? 00:22:04 - Regulation & safety 00:25:22 - Space Policy Directive – 6 00:27:03 - International alignment 00:30:24 - Propulsion 00:34:30 - Chemical vs. nuclear propulsion 00:38:53 - When will nuclear systems be ready for use? 00:40:06 - Economic reason for using nuclear propulsion 00:43:34 - Terrestrial application for nuclear 00:44:40 - Startup capabilities that Lockheed is interested in 00:47:25 - What tech breakthrough would you prioritize for the Moon? 00:49:36 - Innovation predictions in the next 10 years • Show notes • Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.html Lockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpace Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
Commodities & Tech of a Lunar Architecture, with Tim Cichan & Christie Iacomini (Lockheed Martin) 55:14

39 weeks ago55:14

55:14

In the second episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re zooming in on the technologies and design principles that will help establish a sustainable, long-term presence on the Moon and pave the way for future missions to Mars. Joining us are Christie Iacomini, who manages Lockheed Martin’s lunar infrastructure technology portfolio, and Tim Cichan, the company’s space exploration architect. Christie and Tim walk us through the building blocks of lunar infrastructure, from robust power systems and reliable communications networks to habitats and mobility solutions. They also highlight the importance of resource utilization, the evolving role of public-private partnerships, and the collaborative efforts needed to turn ambitious concepts into practical solutions. We discuss: The role of vertical solar arrays, nuclear fission systems, and power grids in supporting lunar operations Communications challenges and the roadmap for building an interoperable lunar network Innovative habitats and rovers designed to withstand extreme lunar conditions Strategies for in-situ resource utilization, including extracting water ice and other key materials The significance of international collaboration and commercial engagement in achieving lasting lunar sustainability And much, much more… • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 03:45 - What is a space architect? 04:42 - Lockheed's goal for Mars 08:23 - Technological advancements that have made a long-term Moon mission possible 09:52 - What does a successful Lunar mission look like? 11:46 - Power systems for Lunar and Mars missions and state of development cycles 18:15 - Tech in Artemis II and III 20:04 - Challenges for creating a seamless communications network for the Moon 22:34 - Effect of modern tech in space 27:10 - Lunar mobility capabilities 30:44 - Habitation 33:14 - Inflatable vs modular habitats 34:20 - Lunar resource utilization 36:42 - How to create seamless integration between mission-critical tech 41:55 - Planned contingencies 43:49 - Seemingly futuristic technology 45:54 - Getting around on the Moon 47:48 - How Lockheed works with other companies building Lunar architecture 49:01 - Technical milestones 50:58 - What will it take to land on the Moon on time? 52:07 - Inspirations for your work • Show notes • Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.html Lockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpace Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/…

Valley of Depth

1
ISAM in Defense Strategy, with Patsy Klein (Falcon Research) and Dennis Wille (Astroscale U.S.) 58:48

40 weeks ago58:48