A CIA Declaration, Subpoenas, & Fauci’s Pardon: Why the Lab Leak Debate is Still Raging On

Why Should I Trust You?

With the CIA now siding with the "lab leak" theory, President Trump reportedly considering cuts to “risky” virus research, Republican Senator Rand Paul firing off subpoenas, and President Biden’s pre-emptive pardon of Dr. Anthony Fauci, the fierce debate over COVID’s origins is only intensifying. And while many believe we’re no closer to an answer, the fight itself is deepening our national crisis of trust in science.

In this episode, we sit down with David Wallace-Wells, science columnist for The New York Times who has written extensively about the origins of Covid, and Robert F. Garry, a leading virologist who found himself at the center of this storm after publishing a paper on COVID’s origins and being hauled in front of Congress.

We explore how what began as a scientific question spiraled into a full-blown political battle, fueling a growing mistrust in science five years after COVID emerged.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

David Wallace Wells, science columnist, New York Times; author, The Uninhabitable Earth

Robert Garry, virologist; professor of microbiology/immunology/assistant dean, Tulane University School of Medicine

Sources:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/opinion/covid-lab-leak-theory.html

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/45389-americans-believe-covid-origin-lab?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F03%2F10%2Famericans-believe-covid-origin-lab

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Chapters

1. A CIA Declaration, Subpoenas, & Fauci’s Pardon: Why the Lab Leak Debate is Still Raging On (00:00:00)

2. Intro and headline (00:00:09)

3. Why are we discussing Covid origins right now? (00:03:27)

4. David Wallace Wells: the history of the Covid origins debate (00:05:13)

5. The evidence behind the two theories (00:08:34)

6. Could science have created Sars COV-2 in a lab? (00:14:08)

7. David Wallace Wells: How science's response fueled mistrust (00:18:36)

8. Why did this become so politicized? (00:24:23)

9. How does this question prepare us for the next pandemic? (00:36:05)

10. Robert Garry: the fallout from his controversial paper (00:43:36)

11. Robert Garry on his Congressional testimony (00:51:44)

12. Would Dr Garry have done anything differently? (00:53:37)

13. Does science need to fight harder? (01:08:50)

14. Outro (01:10:49)