Be the Bridge: SMA (R) Jack Tilley, 12th Sergeant Major of the Army

MAVEN

After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two-year break in between, SMA Tilley shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others, and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations. He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges—mental health. SMA Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders, the value of teamwork, and the importance of planning and transition, it was an honor to hear from SMA Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective and we’re grateful for the time SMA Tilley shared with us. https://www.linkedin.com/in/12thsma-jack-tilley/ American Freedom Foundation - https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-freedom-foundation/posts/?feedView=all American Freedom Foundation - https://americanfreedomfoundation.org/ Your Next Mission Podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/your-next-mission/posts/?feedView=all Your Next Mission Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/6j5iMzkVBDX4XjgTVQiXOu?si=3168463fdc764529 ------------------------------------------------------------- Podcast Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;42;27 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by retired 12 Sergeant Major of the Army Jack Tilley. After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two year break in between Saar Major till, he shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations.

00;00;43;00 - 00;01;03;01 Unknown He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together, and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges mental health. Sergeant Major Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action and the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders.

00;01;03;07 - 00;01;21;06 Unknown The value of teamwork and the importance of planning and transition. It was an honor to hear from Sergeant Major Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective, and we're grateful for the time, Sergeant Major Tilley shared with us. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent.

00;01;21;07 - 00;01;35;14 Unknown As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family Sergeant Major till these contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;35;16 - 00;01;59;02 Unknown SA major. How are you? Hey! I'm so pumped up here today. I'm excited. Yeah. For all those out there listening, we we almost forgot to hit record. We were going on a good path. Just what we were talking about already. So both of us enthusiastic about being here in the presence of each other to talk about some of the some of the things that are important today and always have been and kind of being transformative and thinking about the future and what we can do to work together.

00;01;59;05 - 00;02;16;07 Unknown So, so our major, you, 30 plus years in the service and you just got done talking about why you join, if you wouldn't mind just going back and rehashing that? Sure. Absolutely. Well, you know, I spent 36 years in the service. People say. They say over 30 years. No, no, I want to make sure you're missing 36 years of service.

00;02;16;09 - 00;02;34;24 Unknown Yeah, I, yeah, I, I wasn't planning on joining the military. In fact, I was, I always tell people I was a terrible kid. I had no direction in life. And I remember when I. When I graduate, I. And I did pretty good. I graduated 117, but I was sitting on the Columbia River and we was all talking about, you know, different things.

00;02;34;24 - 00;02;56;16 Unknown And I was drinking the Olympia Beer Day and somebody said, hey, what are you going to do with your life? I said, well, I don't know. And the guy says, hey, you want to go to college? And I said, hey, guys like me don't go to college. Low self-esteem. Nothing's going right. No direction of life. And then the next guy that it was, I think it was Prentiss Boykin, unfortunately got killed in Vietnam.

00;02;56;16 - 00;03;12;21 Unknown But he said, let's join the military. And I said, sure. Why not? I had no idea that was fighting a war. And so I went basic. I did jump school. And then six months from joining the military, I was, fighting in the streets of, of Vietnam. And in fact, I was in the Tet Offensive in 68.

00;03;12;21 - 00;03;31;15 Unknown That's another story back, back a long time ago. But the big, big change in my life real quick. Oh, I bet. And quick to when we had first talked on your next mission podcast with when you and I were talking about that, you had talked about getting in and then you had gone to Vietnam and you'd come back and you'd gotten out for a short stint.

00;03;31;19 - 00;03;55;01 Unknown What was the decision behind that? Well, a couple of things. One is that, I had a commander that really made me mad, angry, and sometimes in life you let people affect your performance. You know, you said, well, despite you, I'm going to quit this job. Dumbest decision I ever, ever made. So I had a commander that, I didn't like, and I thought I could never deal with a guys like, in the military.

00;03;55;02 - 00;04;15;14 Unknown I said, that's it. I got out and I stayed out about two years, and when I was out, I never really fit in. I mean, I always missed the military. I had a great time in the military. Military was good to me. And so I stayed out about two years and, and I used in fact, I actually drew up the I drove up to Fort Lewis one time on, I was going to, Seattle.

00;04;15;14 - 00;04;34;12 Unknown So I stopped at Fort Lewis and watched these guys train and and do all that stuff, and, you know, and I went back home and I told my wife, I said, jeez. You know, I wouldn't mind going back in service. I mean, it was good for me. And so I went and seen a recruiter and he said, hey, look, you know, you can come back any time you want to do that.

00;04;34;16 - 00;04;53;28 Unknown As a staff sergeant, I got to be a staff sergeant about two and a half years in the military. And so I talked to him, and I left at about, I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks later, he called me on the phone. He said, hey, look, if you come back and within the next 30 days or when you are, if you decide to come back after that, you'll come back in as he want.

00;04;54;00 - 00;05;09;20 Unknown I said, what he said the policy. I said, what do you mean to say right now? You can come back to your, you know, the rank you got lose all your time of grade. But, but if you wait that one month, you come back as a private. I'll start all over again. I said, okay, and about three days later, I was down there at the recruiting station.

00;05;09;26 - 00;05;32;23 Unknown I went over to maps, you know, signed back and did all the testing in and then, you know, got my date to go back into the military. So I came back in. Is this I gotta tell you one funny story. So I got to Fort Jackson, and, and I just fell in with all the privates. And so we're March around doing all the stuff, and then with the, clothing, got my clothing issues, got my uniforms and all that stuff.

00;05;32;23 - 00;05;52;02 Unknown And I was a staff sergeant and a rank on. And so I think it was right after I got my, on my, fatigues at the time, I, first started calling. It's our winner. Is is Tilley. I see us first. Are aren't you a staff sergeant? I said, yeah, he said, then put your rank on. Put the rank up there.

00;05;52;02 - 00;06;10;14 Unknown I said, okay, so I put my rank on, fell back into the formation and there's one private looked at me, says, how did you get to be a staff? Well, that drill sergeant said I was marching real good. And so he promoted. Yeah. Oh yeah. But I had a great time there. So yeah, it's good one. The,

00;06;10;16 - 00;06;27;03 Unknown Well, I have to believe because I, when I went through basic not to reminisce too much about this stuff because it's not where we're going. But there was a, there was a, a man that came in, he was a specialist, and we didn't understand it. And we we kind of figured it out later on how to how to use that.

00;06;27;03 - 00;06;53;29 Unknown So did that how did that affect how everybody else was learning around you at that point? Well, it, you know, I tell you, I didn't have much to do with him. You know, I marched from point A to point B and process. And so they didn't really and I started pulling, CQ at the time, but I didn't they asked me a lot of questions, and I tried to do all I could to help as much as I could, but, you know, that was, you know, you've seen in the first week or so, I think it was a week and a half that you stayed there and then you process out.

00;06;54;06 - 00;07;14;09 Unknown So not, not really, not a whole lot. Yeah. For that time, I didn't have a lot, a lot of interaction with those guys. Okay. Yeah. I was just curious that that kind of had some, some connection later down the road. On how rank helps or hurts learning or, you know, this is probably no one's going to believe me.

00;07;14;10 - 00;07;36;13 Unknown I was never worried about being promoted. I just thought, you are what you are. And everybody, I always tell people you everybody climbs a ladder, and you just get off at different rings in the ladder. And, if I got out of the Army's a staff sergeant, I'd be. I've been content if I got out of the Army as a sergeant first class, I'd have been content, but I never really,

00;07;36;15 - 00;07;59;14 Unknown I just always wanted to do my job and work as hard as I could with the people around. You know, I told people that before, and they probably saying that now. That's baloney. You probably a politician or something. I'm the farthest thing away from a politician. But I just always wanted to work hard because the army, the army, quite frankly, changed my life and allowed me to grow up and develop and see so many things and so many different people I've met throughout my life.

00;07;59;14 - 00;08;15;10 Unknown I, I always used, I told people, even I wrote a book, but in the book I said I went from Vietnam. When I went to Vietnam, I went from 18 to 55. And I grew that much during during war. And, so, you know, the Army was good to me, and I just wanted to do the best I could.

00;08;15;11 - 00;08;32;00 Unknown In fact, we can talk about this later. I never wanted to be the sergeant. I did the Army. I just wanted to be. I was going to get out work for USA because I was working on finding me a job right there, but, yeah, I never, I think people that, people are that, you know, you everybody wants to be promoted.

00;08;32;00 - 00;08;58;16 Unknown And I understand that too. But I think sometimes people get so, so motivated about, hey, I want to move to the next level that they're not very good at the level they're at, if that makes sense, because I'm concerned about, hey, I want to be the boss. Well, to be the boss or to be in charge, you got to do your job the you know better than anybody else, or work with the team and show people that you can develop and motivate and get people to do the best they can within their organization.

00;08;58;18 - 00;09;18;21 Unknown And the ones that the people at throughout my military and in civilian life, the one the people that I run into that are more concerned about promotions or advancement aren't necessarily good leaders. I think sometimes. So you mentioned that and I just I hadn't planned on this. It spurred a thought in my head on focus, focusing on the present.

00;09;18;21 - 00;09;43;20 Unknown Become the master of your craft, what you're doing now and then, things will take care of themselves is kind of how I'm oversimplifying what you're saying. That's exactly what I mean. Just to stay focused in your life, I, I've talked to a lot of people, about this. Stay in your lane of responsibility. And as you get, as you move up in whatever organization is, your lane will open up a little bit more, you'll have more responsibility, and you can help more people.

00;09;43;22 - 00;10;03;28 Unknown But the key to success in, any job that you're doing is people. How do you help the people that are around you? How do you make how do you make them successful? My job as a as a leader or a small business owner or even just outside the army? It's not about me. It's about how do I make the people that I'm working with more successful so they can take my job?

00;10;04;01 - 00;10;22;23 Unknown You know, they sort of push me out, you know? So it's about it's about people and their families and and treating them with dignity, respect and, and just getting the best at them. And another thing I, I like the dog. You see this. But the other thing is how do you motivate people that are around you to get the best out of them?

00;10;22;26 - 00;10;42;08 Unknown You know what? Everybody is motivated by something different. You know, some people you can pat on the back, some people got a kick in the backside. But how do you get the best out of those people? And and as a leader, you've got to look at those people, see where they fit. You know, where, you know, I may not be the best mechanic, but I'm a good cook, you know what I mean?

00;10;42;08 - 00;11;07;08 Unknown I might not be the best salesman, but I'm the best. Whatever. But you can find out where they fit in in life and and, you know, sort of pat them on the back and push them up and, and stand them up and make them feel good about yourself. No, I like that. And thank you for that because you're however however that came to you, it's still how it is today for many of us, if not all of us, that they they kind of split up to two different types of people.

00;11;07;08 - 00;11;33;26 Unknown You got some that believe that and understand that to be for what it is. And they they wholeheartedly invested in that mindset of understanding that so much that they it's they embody it. And then you have ones that have more of a theoretical understanding on what that means. And then it's awkward. Sometimes it's clumsy as a leader to be able to try to do those things, which is that reciprocating lesson that's learned is I'm learning how to become a good leader by having been put in a position to lead you.

00;11;33;28 - 00;11;51;16 Unknown And so we're going to make mistakes together, and then we're going to just kind of reciprocate that effort to to learn. Either way. How does that how does that look in today's world when we're thinking about the first thing that you had mentioned, we're we're conditioned to focus on where we are so we can be mission ready, paying attention to what's going on.

00;11;51;18 - 00;12;12;19 Unknown But then as we get near transition and I'm we're going to jump around a little bit, we're going to when we get near near transition, we still embody that same mindset. We're not looking ahead to prepare for that next step, which is the hardest. Yeah. Well the problem is and I'm glad you're talking about transition. The problem in transition is, is you don't want to pull away.

00;12;12;21 - 00;12;26;05 Unknown You want to keep doing your job. And you say, man, they can't they can't do that job without me. And I've got to be there every day. In reality, that you're going to, you know, a lot of I can't remember the actual number, you know, a couple hundred thousand, I guess, get out of the military every year.

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;42;03 Unknown But, what you've got to do is you you need to start that transition process about two years out. And I think what happens is people don't do that. So what do you do in that two years out? Well, finish up your degree. If you got an associate's get a bachelors. If you got a bachelors, get a master's.

00;12;42;08 - 00;13;04;02 Unknown So focus on all that stuff and make sure that if you have any bills, pay all your bills, put money aside, know where you want to live, you know, start, have a good resume. There's so many things that you ought to do. I think the people that, that don't transition very well is the ones that wait until the last 30 days or the last 60 days, to get out of the service.

00;13;04;02 - 00;13;24;03 Unknown And they're scrambling, don't know what they're going to do, and they're confused. And I'm going to say one more thing, too, is, is that, I've talked a lot about on my show, on a podcast about the fact that we have about 200,000 people incarcerated that are veterans, and about 86,000 are homeless, but more than 125,000 and probably that number is a little larger now.

00;13;24;06 - 00;13;47;14 Unknown But more than 125,000 and taken a life by suicide. And you go back and start thinking about transition. Why do they do those kind of things? It's because they don't fit back into society and they're struggling and there's nobody to talk to. And, for the people a little less than a day, there's a lot of veterans out there that, that are your friend or your brother or your sister that'll listen to you and try to help you out as much as you can.

00;13;47;14 - 00;14;08;15 Unknown So talk to them. You're not alone. Everybody goes through struggles. You, me and everybody else. Reach out to somebody and talk to them about whatever those issues are. Special on that transition. And then the last thing I just say about transition, I, I was very lucky because I retired as a sergeant major of the Army. And so I know there's a lot of doors open for me that there may not be open for a lot of people.

00;14;08;16 - 00;14;35;26 Unknown I understand that because I'm certainly not going to be anybody else. But the fact of the matter is, I used to look for companies that had, leadership that are veterans, maybe an owner of a company or an a senior leadership within that organization. And if you can find those, even Google those on the, on the website, say, you know, veteran owned companies or people who had a veteran lead or whatever, reach out to those guys and, and make sure you reach out and tell them about your military service and charm you.

00;14;35;26 - 00;14;56;07 Unknown 214 and have a resume and and, and they'll help you out as much as they can. But you may not. Again, going back to where you fit, you may not be a good fit for that organization, but I guarantee you they'll probably help you go somewhere else. I'm going to kind of just unload the list of things in my head at this point that hopefully we can touch on is, how do you determine the fit?

00;14;56;09 - 00;15;11;20 Unknown A lot of the struggle is is deciding that what I did is what I need to do in the future. And we we know differently. We know that you don't have to do that. You can go ahead and figure out how to do something different, what you want to do. It's an opportunity to recreate who you want to be, what you want to do.

00;15;11;22 - 00;15;40;16 Unknown And then you talked about big picture early on in the conversation. You're talking about those that can understand the big picture. That's an acquired skill set that is done through connecting with others by having the mentors, which we talked about before. So on those two topics themselves, when you're saying two years out, how do you learn about what you yourself is going to need if if you think that you don't need it, hopefully that translates.

00;15;40;19 - 00;15;56;23 Unknown No, no. I said, well, I think the key to success, I think that, yeah, but we talked about a minute ago, we talked about before too, is you gotta have a mentor. So I tell you, I always said you need to have 2 or 3 mentors. So I have somebody that's already been in the service that got out of the service that you can reach out and talk to about.

00;15;56;23 - 00;16;18;06 Unknown Hey, look, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking to do that and just sort of talk about those kind of things, before you get out of the service. But. And then the other thing I do is, I talk to my wife a lot. I've been married. I'm married a long time anyway. But I talk to my wife about what we need to do as a family because, you know, you had a team in the military of all these people around you.

00;16;18;06 - 00;16;35;13 Unknown But when you get out of the team that you have is your family to. And you got to make sure they're involved in that discussion. And then the other thing is, is, a lot of people set expectation expectations, I think just a little bit too, you know, they want to get out, make, 2 or $300,000.

00;16;35;15 - 00;16;53;19 Unknown Again, it goes back to where do you fit in? How do you grow? How do you develop? How are you preparing yourself for success? Just because you, as a senior NCO in the Army or in the military, Navy, Marine Corps, whatever. But, senior is your senior officer doesn't mean that you're going to have the ideal job when you get out of the military.

00;16;53;23 - 00;17;14;20 Unknown You have to go back and and prove yourself again that you have those qualifications. So, yeah, it's there's a it's it's, because of what the military teaches you, you have a lot of leadership, a lot of a lot of things that you can share with any organization. So I think that's a that's a strength for, all the people that served in the military.

00;17;14;22 - 00;17;40;14 Unknown Yeah. Thanks for that. And congratulations. Is it 58 years? 55. It was five years this year. But who's counting? The 709 58. Congratulation. You may be out of here now. You know, I, I tell you what, I tell people this all the time, too. Is that, nobody is successful by themselves. I have came home so many times and told my wife, you know, I can't believe what this guy did today.

00;17;40;17 - 00;18;03;09 Unknown And she'd say, well, Jack, I thought you did that once. And I'd say, well, wait a minute, that was different. Well, the answer is you need somebody that gives you checks and balances. You know, you get. I used to tell people all the time that every time you're promoted, your head swells a little bit, you know, in your head gets and you think you're smarter and smarter and smarter.

00;18;03;12 - 00;18;19;19 Unknown And the answer is you're no different than you was yesterday. You just got a different job. I get it. I'll tell you another funny story. I was, down at Fort Knox when I was, competing for to start my the Army and I. And I was a Centcom sergeant major, so I was working at a four star level there.

00;18;19;22 - 00;18;38;18 Unknown And, I went into this conference, and they had my seat all the way down at the end of the table. Not you, I don't care. And so I bring up, talking points and things I think you ought to do is the armored community and that sort of. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's good. Yeah. That's good. That just, you know, that sort of was nice to me and all that stuff.

00;18;38;20 - 00;18;56;14 Unknown Well, that evening they announced that I was a sergeant major in the Army, and I was the next election to start major. So the next day I came to the conference. My chair was right dead in the center. And everything I said was the smartest guy in the world. The answer was I hadn't changed from yesterday. All right.

00;18;56;19 - 00;19;13;03 Unknown So, the if you want to be a good leader, be a good listener and be a good communicator and be able to say, hey, I was wrong about this is probably a better way to do it. And when somebody comes up with a good idea and it's not your idea, give him credit for. Hey, that's a great idea.

00;19;13;03 - 00;19;31;22 Unknown Let's do that. She's okay. Let's go. Let's move out. Don't be afraid. I mean, again, we're successful because all the people around us, you know, use their brains, you know, use their ideas in your thought. And if you do that, then you'll grow as a team and you'll develop, and it'll get better and better and better and better all the way through there.

00;19;31;22 - 00;19;50;13 Unknown So I've always I was, when I first got to be to start, maybe there's two things I really wanted to work on real quickly. One was, I wanted to bring all senior in sales to one location, at down at Fort Bliss. And I said, hey, we're going to have a conference are meeting, and somebody says, who's going to pay for it?

00;19;50;13 - 00;20;12;17 Unknown I said, well, I don't care. And then the second thing I want to do is start a NCO and soldier of the year program for the United States Army, for the Army bring Army. And I was able to accomplish that. The first year or so in the Army. But, I put all those senior and chosen together in one location, and it was just, one star and above, but all in one location.

00;20;12;17 - 00;20;30;15 Unknown And they asked a guard reserve and all the rest of them, and I did that. So, so we could build a team, a stronger team. And we we did a golf ID event. We went out to dinner and we did. We got stronger and stronger as we went along and we really worked with each other. So I thought it it and they're still doing that now or continuing to do it.

00;20;30;15 - 00;20;58;22 Unknown So I think it builds a stronger team anyway. It does. And it was obviously I think you and I are similar in that sense. The value of bringing people together is sometimes uncomfortable. It may be, when when you are indicated like what you said, if you find yourself without saying it, but doing it is to be the most humble person in the room where you can hear feedback and you can see that other people have great ideas and you're willing to share that credit or give that credit instead of taking it, then it becomes simpler.

00;20;58;27 - 00;21;17;17 Unknown The further the further you get away from actually have to decide or do things, because the team around you is is activating its where everything gets set as the example of what you want to achieve as a leader, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. No I'm sorry. The I think the other thing is that they have to trust you.

00;21;17;19 - 00;21;30;19 Unknown If they don't trust you, then they're not going to support you. And they got to believe that, you know, if I say something as a leader, if I say something, I'm going to do it. If I say, hey, I'm going to be here at 8:00, a little small thing about 8:00, I'm going to be there at 750, probably.

00;21;30;21 - 00;21;49;26 Unknown Right? Yeah. But if you put the word out, if you say something, do it. And if you can't do it, go back and tell them, hey, look, I tried to do this, I couldn't accomplishment, and this is the reason why we can go with a different route. But here's where I am right now. And I think a lot of people, just listen.

00;21;50;03 - 00;22;03;05 Unknown Yeah, I got it and then move out. I used to, when I used to travel, I used to have a couple of trip coordinators. They'd be with you and they'd take notes. Everything that anybody put out. And when we got back, I'd say, okay, what's, you know, what's what do we have to do? What do we have to accomplish?

00;22;03;12 - 00;22;22;04 Unknown And I'll be damned, they they better get every one of those accomplished. At least go back and say, look, we're working on this is where we're at. Here's what we're going to do. And somebody called, the officer said, I have a problem this summer. I wouldn't just drop it. I'd get them to the right location and then, write it down, somebody to go back, say, hey, if we accomplish this, you know what?

00;22;22;04 - 00;22;42;01 Unknown It's finished. Come back and tell me what's going on. And I think a lot of times somebody will have an issue and they'll put it out there and they'll just sort of say, okay, that's your issue. I'm done. You're not done. You're not done until it's accomplished. Even though you gave it to somebody else. Reminds me of the story that I think I shared with you because of what you just said.

00;22;42;08 - 00;23;01;06 Unknown You know, you're going to if you're going to be the good listener and you're going to take in the input, you better act on it. So they see that it's actually, so in the early early 90s, I was in Korea and I was doing the, the soldier of the quarter, soldiers of the month, been going all the way up to the, you know, company, battalion, brigade, so on and so forth.

00;23;01;06 - 00;23;21;19 Unknown While I earned, earned a spot to have dinner with Sergeant Major, Army kid. Oh, yeah. You get squared away guy. Yeah. So it and, you know, I was allowed to bring two soldiers with me. So I found, you know, the two that that I wanted to bring with me. And they shut down the dining facility after hours where it was, me sergeant made an Army kid.

00;23;21;26 - 00;23;43;13 Unknown So major mixology and, I was just playing golf with him. Great. Go away. Yeah, just play golf for the last week, I was. It's amazing. I'll. I'll send you a picture if you'll take it. I'll send you a picture of us together. Back in 1999. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. So we were sitting there and he asked the question, you know, so what?

00;23;43;16 - 00;24;01;09 Unknown What can I do for you? Some along the lines. What can I do for you? Or, you know, what's on your mind? Something like that. And the short story is, you know, the camp that we were on had a real small, fitness facility. Jim had 1 or 2 things that had the universal weights, you know, the stuff that you saw in high school back in those days.

00;24;01;09 - 00;24;17;27 Unknown Well, I asked, you have free weights if we can get some dumbbells, that would be great. And I compared it to the camp that was next to us, who's obviously had more budget, whatever. So he listen, I gave the example and I'm not going to tell you what the example is because I don't want to embarrass myself. But, you know, he they were confused.

00;24;17;27 - 00;24;33;24 Unknown They scoffed at it. I could tell now. I could tell what they were. What they heard was ridiculous. But the next day, the lieutenant or, XO come over and or the platoon leader came over and and called me out of formation. So I came over to him, says, let's go. Getting the Humvees is, where are we going, sir?

00;24;33;24 - 00;24;51;03 Unknown And he says, we're going to get your weights. And he said it in such a way that I, I didn't see it as the thing that I had hoped to happen coming, come to fruition. So, so as we're driving, we're going downtown Korea to try to find a place to buy the dumbbells. And I asked him, I said, so how many we get?

00;24;51;03 - 00;25;11;10 Unknown And he goes, well, we have $50. That's like, okay, all right. So we ended up being able to afford one dumbbell, which we ended up bringing back. And we kind of it didn't serve its purpose, but it was the running joke as to, you know, careful what you say. Prepare the UN, but also know that somebody worth their salt is going to follow through on that commitment.

00;25;11;10 - 00;25;27;27 Unknown So the thing that I learned is he felt he followed through well, the thing about it, the other thing is, is take good notes. Could have been when you go back to their ask those questions. Hey, last time I was here, you had, this, this and this, and. Hey, what's the status of that now? Yeah, the,

00;25;27;29 - 00;25;48;26 Unknown Yeah, I used to follow that people to go wild. And how do you remember that? Well, you know, we keep notes and stuff. So when I come back, I'm going to make sure I ask those questions. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sergeant major, I got to tell you funny story about him when he was, he come to Germany when I was a division soccer major and we hosted him, and, so we took him around and showed him the division, did all that stuff.

00;25;48;26 - 00;26;08;29 Unknown And so we got to, Graff and beer, gave him a briefing and all that stuff. He's. He's really a great guy. And, so we got ready to go that they had these green old German bus, vans. Most of the time they wouldn't run very good. So I say, Sergeant Major, I'll see you later. Got him in the van, closed the door, and drivers tried to start the vehicle.

00;26;08;29 - 00;26;25;02 Unknown I wouldn't start, so. Oh, I can't believe it. And so I said, hey, guys, Sergeant major, don't worry about it. We'll get you. Go. We'll push this van and get it going. So I had all the sergeant major back there pushing and we started pushing. And I looked at my left and there were Sergeant major. Can't push him wrong with me.

00;26;25;04 - 00;26;43;00 Unknown It's nice. And it started up. He jumped in. See you guys later, Dick. So yeah, he's quite a guy. He's really a good guy. Yeah, it was a good time. It's a good time. So since we're talking about it, maybe some folks listening aren't as familiar, but what what is the role? Or at least when you were disarming an army.

00;26;43;01 - 00;27;03;28 Unknown What what was the role and and what what did it serve for the community? Well, first of all, the sergeant, the army, it was the voice of the noncommissioned officer corps. So I routinely testified in front of Congress, usually once or twice a year. And when Congress were to have issues or concerns about stuff, he'd come down through my office and we'd, you know, check it out, see what the issues so that's the first thing.

00;27;04;03 - 00;27;24;27 Unknown And also inform the secretary of the Army, Secretary of Defense, the chief of staff, the Army, the division staff or the, the Pentagon staff there, or the Army staff about what's going on. And I traveled all the time, and I traveled, I think it was 800,000 miles and three and a half years. And what I do is I go to all these, installations and talk to not just senior NCO.

00;27;25;03 - 00;27;43;27 Unknown It's all soldiers and take good notes and find out what the concerns was within the army. And, that's what I did. I sort of flowed information back and forth, you know, what's the issues? And and it worked out pretty good. Biggest complaint is always the same thing. It hadn't changed a day. The biggest complaint was money.

00;27;43;29 - 00;28;04;25 Unknown Oh. At the time, an E9 would make, I think, I think base pay for an E9 was, $3,000 and $31 a month. That was his base pay. A captain made more than him. So during my period of time, I started by the Army. We went from, I think it was 3430 $400 to over $5,000, base pay.

00;28;04;25 - 00;28;22;20 Unknown So we got a pretty good chunk of rise. But it wasn't just them. We had, a targeted pay from E4 or five, six, seven, 8 or 9. And what I always thought was a buy went from 4 to 5. I should get 5 or 6. Seven or dollars, pay a 6 to 7, same thing. And so we worked real hard on pay and quality of life stuff.

00;28;22;20 - 00;28;50;19 Unknown That was really my focus in the time you were in. I mean, that's a significant timeline. So if we can talk about readiness and how significant events changed the trajectory of our readiness. So you were Saam rated Army from 2000 to 2004. So before before 2000, you stepped into the role. And then what occurred during that timeline, can you share with us the significance of what you now had to undertake?

00;28;50;22 - 00;29;14;12 Unknown Well, when I first got there, you know, I got into 2000, but, you know, of course 911 happened. That was, you know, when the plane hit the Pentagon and, we went to war. That was a, you know, one of the biggest things that happened to me, in fact, in fact, I'll never forget that day I was sitting in my office, and, David, Chad, which was the public affairs called me, says, you got to turn on the TV.

00;29;14;12 - 00;29;29;11 Unknown And I did, and I turned to watch the, plane hit up in New York, and I went out the office. I said, hey, look, this is not a mistake. Something's going on. I had to go to Fort Meyer to speak to somebody. And when I was going to Fort Myers and I finished talking, I was coming down the hill.

00;29;29;11 - 00;29;51;25 Unknown That plane actually hit. And then I went back over there, went back into the Pentagon, made sure all the everybody was out of their offices. And I went around to the front of the, of the building where the plane had hit. And I went back in with General and Austin. We sort of worked our way, to the, the wreckage there and probably about 30 or 40ft or so.

00;29;51;25 - 00;30;12;23 Unknown Smoke it. We couldn't go any farther because we want to see if we can get anybody out. And then of course, there was mass confusion. And then we we came back out and people were running everywhere. Anyway, it was just a terrible day for our country. You know what bothers me when I talk about 911? What bothers me is, is, how quickly we forgot about what happened on that day.

00;30;12;25 - 00;30;34;20 Unknown And, the lives are lost, not just, you know, Pennsylvania, New York and the Pentagon, but it's, you know, for 3 or 4 days in a life, we, the country, the country, I think, pulled together real close with everybody. And we all wanted to help each other out. And we're all Americans and all that stuff. And then after 3 or 4 days, we all sort of went our separate ways again.

00;30;34;23 - 00;30;51;21 Unknown And it was just again, it was just a tough time, not just 911, you know, we got an award we're deploying, you know, a lot of stuff. And so the rest of my time in the military is usually deployed in and going and checking on troops and see how everybody was doing over there. So I stay pretty active, like I said, traveled about 8 or 9000 miles.

00;30;51;21 - 00;31;21;28 Unknown But it was a blast. Half of my time in Sergeant Major, I was a little rough. Yeah, I can imagine. And thanks for your leadership before, after and during. Of course, because it I think when I had first met you, you know, it hit me because I, you know, after being out for as long as I have there's a, there is a, a point to which you, you feel disconnected on certain things, reminding you of what you used to do and who used to do it with, and those types of things.

00;31;21;28 - 00;31;51;07 Unknown And the subtle reminder, especially generational. So in my era, getting out in the 90s, you know, it's it becomes more challenging to be more connected to where, where things are today and things like that. And so it served as a subtle reminder of connection on the level of difficulty of what you and many others had experienced during that time line, but how it shifted the attention to to be more prepared and, and then focus on the things that we had learned through those last 15 to 20 years to transform and become the force that we, we, we want to be.

00;31;51;08 - 00;32;15;23 Unknown We need to be and then take it into transition. So as you've now been out a couple of decades, taking that, taking that lesson in those lessons and what you're doing now, let's let's talk about that. On how how it drives you to continue to want to do what you do. Well, the, well, I, I don't know, I, I love the Army.

00;32;15;23 - 00;32;40;28 Unknown And I think, again, I said before the Army changed my life and helped me so much. And it's all part of my family will always be part of my family. And so I want to do all I can to help veterans and families as much as I can till the day I die. And there's a lot of people just out there struggling, and they just don't, sometimes they sometimes they struggle and they don't know why, and they don't know why they don't fit in.

00;32;41;00 - 00;32;58;05 Unknown And, they don't know who to talk to about whatever the issues are. So from my little perspective, you know, doing our podcast or doing our hiring events or whatever, I just want to do all I can to help the veteran community. And I said it already, we as a veteran community, we need to pull together and put our arms together.

00;32;58;05 - 00;33;14;03 Unknown Whether or not you spent three years or are 36 years in the military, put our arms together and sort of talk to each other and help each other out as much as we can, because I know I get it. I tell people all the time, I'll help you with everything. You know, everything, anything, anything I can help you with, I'll certainly.

00;33;14;03 - 00;33;30;14 Unknown I'll be out. Don't think I won't do it. Gives me a bunch of money. I'll only give it to my grandkids and stuff. There. There's nothing wrong with that money now, but, But I just. I just think we gotta work together as a team, and I think we're missing the bullets sometimes. I came back backing up here a little bit.

00;33;30;16 - 00;33;50;03 Unknown I came back out of Vietnam, and I had anger issues for about 5 or 6 years where I struggled just fitting in. And it wouldn't take much to do, to set me off about stuff. And so that was me. And I know there's a lot of men and women that get out that just struggle and just try to find the right space where they fit in.

00;33;50;03 - 00;34;14;07 Unknown And, and I just sometimes I worry that we're just not doing enough, but we're not doing enough because we won't pull together. We just got to pull together a lot more. Yeah, and thanks for that. And that. And you're right. And then when you look at some of the I mean, the statistics help support, I guess putting something in a perspective that allows us it's tangible, right?

00;34;14;07 - 00;34;36;01 Unknown When we have a number and something hard to look at, it's the intangible things that are very challenging, you know, with over 47,000 organizations focused on a military affiliated community, what are your thoughts on how to bring people together when there's so many choices out there for, I mean, how would a service member that isn't doesn't have a mentor or hasn't thought about these things?

00;34;36;01 - 00;34;58;16 Unknown Maybe it's early career young enlisted junior junior officers, whoever. How do we make a decision or determine where to go first? With so many options? Yeah, that that really makes it tough. You got to do what's right for you. However, I think, somebody like me go to your next mission podcast on me, follow me on podcast, listen to the podcast, do whatever.

00;34;58;18 - 00;35;14;13 Unknown We're we're growing every day. We're growing. We probably get it. We probably get 100 followers a week or something like that. But, we're growing every day, and I guarantee you, if we can get. You know, I've always said to everybody, if we can get a million or a couple million people, that that'll follow us. Numbers count.

00;35;14;14 - 00;35;30;29 Unknown People listen to numbers. And if you got those numbers, then you can you can enforce a lot of stuff. That's what we got to do. Whether or not you're fallen AUSA or NCUA or whatever organization want to follow, that's fine. That's great. But we have to have one spot, one sweet spot for all of us to pull together.

00;35;30;29 - 00;35;53;00 Unknown I don't think we've I don't think we've found that sweet spot. Yeah. You're right. And so you have the American Freedom Foundation. Talk about that a little bit and then see if we can't get you to that million followers. Yeah. Well we, we, we start off by doing, we start off by doing concerts with me and Ted and, you know, we did a concert for about ten years.

00;35;53;03 - 00;36;12;27 Unknown Alan Jackson trace action. James out of Martina McBride. Lee and and was able to give away about $13 million. You know what was doing that? But all the concerts and stuff like that. But, I don't know. I think there's just a lot of people that struggle, that just I, I just don't I just don't want to pull together.

00;36;12;27 - 00;36;28;20 Unknown I think they get out and they, they look at the bad stuff versus the positive things in life. You've got to look at the good stuff. Everybody's going to have a hiccup in life goes up and it comes down. Everybody's going to have problems. Everybody's going to have issues. But don't dwell on the it. Don't dwell on the bad things.

00;36;28;21 - 00;36;50;22 Unknown Well, you know, think about the positive things and keep a positive attitude. I think as long as you do that, you certainly should be okay. I hope he is okay anyway. Yeah. Hope. Hope. Give people hope. Yeah. That being said, anything to close it out. So our amazing. Well, the, I think I told you on the I have to tell you about my son Brian, I think I did.

00;36;50;22 - 00;37;11;14 Unknown I told you, should I tell you about Brian? Briefly. But, if you could. Well, I tell you, I, I talk about, well, I, I don't think there's, I don't think there's a person I know that has went to war that doesn't get closer to God. And every time somebody struggles, or something's gone wrong, they get the, you know, they say a prayer.

00;37;11;14 - 00;37;32;19 Unknown And I'm no different than anybody else, you know, probably about the most religious person in the world. But I'll tell you a story, something to happen to me. I, I had my oldest son had pneumococcus meningitis, left him, temporarily blind, temporarily deaf, 20 to 30 convulsions a day. And, and quite frankly, it's hard for me to tell a story.

00;37;32;19 - 00;37;52;15 Unknown Usually I don't cry or tear up a little bit of struggle through it, but. But I always thought you'd die. By the time he was 7 or 8 years old, and, and my, my wife talked to, she said, just keep doing your job, stay focused in life. You know, it's about, it's about God. It's about believing.

00;37;52;15 - 00;38;19;07 Unknown It's about doing what's right for, you know, your fellow man and woman. And I remember I went to Fort Lewis was like, I was at Fort Lewis, and Brian was at the Madigan Hospital there was it, was in that community anyway. And, I went to tag gunner and my wife called me, says, now this is after you had meningitis, came holidays on like 4 or 5 different kinds of medication that control seizures and is here and was coming out left.

00;38;19;08 - 00;38;38;26 Unknown And seven years is trying to grow up again. And and my wife called me says Brian sick again and said, what's wrong? See what I know? And I said, well, let me, let me ask the first sergeant. So I'd come home. And so, of course, I hustle and home. I can't remember how far Jack Ma was, which is a few hours drive away.

00;38;38;28 - 00;38;58;06 Unknown And I went home and I went right to the Madigan Hospital, and I seen the doctor and I said, hey, doc, what's going to happen? And, you know, it's not you know, it's, now those are tough. I can't we're talking about struggle and and try to get through everything you're doing and being a soldier and taking care of your family and doing all those things.

00;38;58;06 - 00;39;33;03 Unknown And so, doc, what's going to happen? And he said, I don't know. And so I did what anybody else did. I went found me a chapel, a small annex at the Madigan Hospital. And I got down on my hands and knees and I said, God, either let him live or let him die. It's not fair that, that he's going through this, that again of the time he is having these, you know, 5 to 15 seizures a day and just a little small seizures and all that, all this medication and, and, and we don't know if he's going to make it.

00;39;33;06 - 00;39;43;05 Unknown And so I said a prayer, and the next day they got another order.

00;39;43;08 - 00;40;11;09 Unknown And so, I tell people all the time that, everybody struggles. But you got to believe. I believe in life, believe in God and believe in yourself. And it'll. And you can work through it. But, you just can't just can't quit. And that's, that's the thing that I tell everybody, just don't quit. Just keep keep moving forward.

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;31;18 Unknown And and if it would have turned out bad, okay, so be it. But but it didn't. It didn't. So believing in yourself, believing a lie, believing in God, believing that you can do anything that you want to do. But the only thing it stops you is, is you. You got to believe.

00;40;31;20 - 00;40;57;11 Unknown Thank you, Sergeant Major. Thank you for the story. Well, that's that's, that's that's being real open with everybody. And and you got to open with people and tell me how you feel. So, just, again, we all struggle. Everybody struggles, but but help each other out. That's the key to success in life. And we'll leave it there.

00;40;57;13 - 00;41;05;26 Unknown So our major thank you so much. Appreciate it. God bless and have a good one.