3 Simple Rules: Howie Chan, Oracle Senior Technical Program Manager and Marine Veteran

MAVEN

His leadership journey shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, Howie graduated from the US Naval Academy where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire enlistment overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example. Howie shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically about your next steps—especially when transitioning careers. From "trust but verify" to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no, Howie’s leadership philosophy puts mission and people first. Coming to Oracle through our Oracle Veteran Internship Program, known also as OVIP, Howie is bringing those same principles to his role, and we’re excited to see what he’ll accomplish next. Howie's Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hmchan16/ Oracle Veteran Info - https://www.oracle.com/careers/culture-inclusion/veterans/#rc30veteran Service 2 School - https://www.service2school.org/

Microsoft's MSSA Tech Bootcamp - https://military.microsoft.com/mssa/

Breakline - https://breakline.org/

FourBlock - https://fourblock.org/

-------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;47;19 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Howie Chan, Oracle senior technical program manager and former United States Marine. His leadership journey, shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, led Howie to graduate from the United States Naval Academy, where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example, how he shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically

00;00;47;19 - 00;01;09;09 Unknown about your next steps, especially when transitioning careers from trust but verify to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no. How his leadership philosophy puts mission in people first. Coming to Oracle through Oracle's veteran internship program, known also as over how he's bringing those same principles to his role, and we're excited to see what to accomplish next. We have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;17 Unknown So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Howie's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good morning Howie. How's it going?

00;01;29;19 - 00;01;49;11 Unknown Hey, Chris. Pretty good man. How about yourself? Doing all right? Thanks. Yep. It's, the beginning of the week, and it's early. Not real early, but early enough to get to get us a good baseline to have a great conversation. Sure. Now, I appreciate your time. Happy to do this. Yeah. No. Likewise. And, you know, for everybody listening.

00;01;49;11 - 00;02;08;22 Unknown You know, how he's how he joined us through one of our hiring channels. And I'll let him elaborate on those things and, and talk about how it is that we came to meet and what we're talking about today. But before we get there, Howie, tell us a little bit about you. So, yeah, my name is Howie Chan. I was born in the South.

00;02;08;29 - 00;02;27;29 Unknown I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and most of my life in Huntsville, Alabama. From there, I went to the U.S. Naval Academy and commissioned into the US Marine Corps as a communications and signals officer. Over the last 70 years in capacity. So my entire career overseas, three and half years in Asia, three and half years in the Middle East.

00;02;28;01 - 00;02;51;18 Unknown I got the Marine Corps at the end of 2022 and took a travel sabbatical in 2023, traveling the globe from there. Joined Oracle, through Oracle's veteran internship program, over last year. So grateful to the Lord for opened a door to be able to do a current internship to a full time offer. But, that's essentially how I got here, was through Oracle's veteran internship program.

00;02;51;20 - 00;03;25;03 Unknown Got it. No. It's great. So Knoxville, Was it was what was growing up in Knoxville like for you, you know, how did that lead to Huntsville? Yeah. Candidly, you know, I was I was I was on there Knoxville til I was about seven years old. I've one older brother and my dad being a medical doctor, he had a really crazy work schedule and so when my brother and in middle school, my dad was on called time or, like, on duty all the time, and my brother mentioned, like he wanted to see my dad were often and we wanted to be doing more family things.

00;03;25;03 - 00;03;45;26 Unknown And so my dad made the decision to move our family from Knoxville, Tennessee down to Huntsville, Alabama for better work life fit, and he was able to find that. And that's how we end up moving from Knoxville to Huntsville. But but yeah, I've been in the South once all my life that that makes that so. So about how old were you when when you went to Huntsville.

00;03;45;28 - 00;04;16;14 Unknown That was that. 77878778. Yeah. How was how was that transition from Knoxville to Huntsville as far as friends and going to school and things like that? I think naturally, you know, when you're in a new environment, it's always a challenge initially up front, but you're able to make things work. But, after getting acquainted, I was able to make new friends and build a community and then take those lessons over time as we gotten older and take it to our life today.

00;04;16;17 - 00;04;38;21 Unknown That's you could transplant that and building a community, adapting basically as an eight year old, the same way as you can do as an 18 year old, in a 28 year old and so we'll, we'll come back to that part because it's we got to talk about that. Right. As a as as the veteran affiliated community. We have to talk about that.

00;04;38;24 - 00;04;59;10 Unknown So growing up, what made you go to the Naval Academy? What kind of get us to the part of where you're saying, this is what I want to do, no less? Definitely a fair question. Actually, I would say, you know, look at my family. We come from a family of service. I actually had two cousins who were in the military commission through the U.S. Naval Academy.

00;04;59;12 - 00;05;20;13 Unknown Cousin John, in 1999, you know, joined the nuclear submarine force. And my cousin Mickey, who commission in 2005 joined NSW in the Naval Special Warfare. As part of the teams, the Navy Seal teams, for about 20 years. But they were positive influences in my life and I think we can all relate to that one family friend or uncle relative who joined the military.

00;05;20;15 - 00;05;39;12 Unknown And yeah, I mean, ideally positive influences. But you know, for the fact for my two cousins, they were excellent role models for me. And so whenever they had their spring break or fall break, they would come visit my family, either in Huntsville, Alabama or Knoxville at that time. And yeah, I always loved them. And I view them as like older brothers and mentors.

00;05;39;12 - 00;06;03;02 Unknown And when I came to, actually thinking about the service, the I just reached out to them and they, they said like, hey, you know, you're looking for a great education. You're also looking to also serve the country and give back. Why not go for like the service academies, whether it's the Naval Camera, West Point. And so looking at the different branches, you know, I definitely wanted to other join either the Navy or the Marine Corps.

00;06;03;02 - 00;06;25;06 Unknown And so the Naval Academy, it made the most sense for me. What year was what year is that when you went to the Naval Academy? I was in the Naval Academy from 2012 to May 2016. Yeah, it's you have 2012 to 2016. What kind of prep does it take for someone to make that choice? How early do you need to think about that and land on a path that gets you ready?

00;06;25;09 - 00;06;47;16 Unknown I would say maybe a year and a half to two years and advance. So I think for those who are considering the service academy path, whether they're in high school or even a few years removed from high school because the, the, the maximum age you can join is 23 years old or so. They do accept prior listed folks to actually commission through the service academies until 23 years old.

00;06;47;18 - 00;07;06;18 Unknown Yeah, I would recommend roughly about a year and a half to two years, I think, definitely assessing where you are at physically. There's also a component where besides completing the college application to other than Naval County, West Point or other academies, you also need a a political nomination that's from your congressman, your senator or the vice president president.

00;07;06;21 - 00;07;24;15 Unknown And so they have their own each of those different buckets, they all have their own timelines roughly. They're similar, but they can be nuanced differently based on their own, timelines. But you also have to go through on vetting process to get a nomination so you can complete all the, you know, college applications. You can complete the physical tests.

00;07;24;15 - 00;07;50;26 Unknown There's also there's a physical test component as well too. You can do all those things, but you don't have a political nomination, whether it's your senator or your congressman or vice president, you're not allowed to, receive an appointment to attend one of those academies when you're in. For those that aren't quite familiar with how how the assignment works, because some might hear you say, Naval Academy and I was assigned and then the Marine Corps walk us through the process of where you end up, what branch holistically.

00;07;50;26 - 00;08;07;05 Unknown I mean, the U.S. AmeriCorps is part of a Department of Navy, whether we'd like to admit that or not, but we are. But the Naval Academy is the commissioning source, both for the Navy and the Marine Corps. If you're choosing the service academy as the route of commissioning, roughly, you start with a class of 1200 your freshman year, a year, like we call it.

00;08;07;05 - 00;08;34;05 Unknown And by the time you you graduate, your first year or senior year, there's usually a thousand. And so roughly 75%. So about 750 commissioned US Navy, whereas the other 250, that 25% you commissioned to US Marine Corps. And so the summer and your senior year at the Naval Academy is like they like the justification. Usually there's like an assessment to see like which and validate like which branch of service you like to be a part of or interested in.

00;08;34;05 - 00;09;02;07 Unknown And then based on your academic standings, your performance during that summer, military training, the summer prior to entering your senior year, come the mid fall timeframe, that's when you find out which, branch that you'll be a part of. But for me, I really gravitate towards the US Marine Corps because being exposed to highly, qualified senior leaders, and also officers at the least at the Naval Academy, I was just really drawn to the Marine Corps, especially just the caliber folks.

00;09;02;14 - 00;09;18;05 Unknown Their motivation, it was just infectious. And I want to be part of that environment and be challenged. And, you know, for for me, I seen these people, what they're doing. I want to join one of the toughest branches and Marine Corps. It seemed to be a great fit for me. So it was the people that the calling, the challenges.

00;09;18;07 - 00;09;36;07 Unknown And I would say those are the two things because of what really drew me to the Marine Corps. Yeah, yeah. You got did you hear that cry? Just the battle cry right now while the Marines just celebrating your choice. The words that you just chose to use for sure. So what happens after that? So you get now you're in senior year.

00;09;36;07 - 00;09;57;09 Unknown You know you're going to the Marines. When do you when do you learn what your your job, your role will be whether you graduate from the Naval Academy or or another publicly accredited university, all Marine Corps officers, they all we all get sent to Quantico, Virginia at the 26 week program called the Basic School, where we all learn how to be provisional rifle platoon commanders.

00;09;57;11 - 00;10;26;15 Unknown And so roughly, that's a six month training pipeline. And by the last month or two, you have to rack and stack based on the list of like 26 different places or different job specialties. What we like to consider. And then based on your academic standings, the ratings for the Marine Corps change, they kind of went through like a, a tiered system, like a 1/33, three third, there's a happy quality spread, but it's fluctuated in terms of based on performance versus a tiered system to have a quality spread.

00;10;26;15 - 00;10;43;09 Unknown So someone who's more and more recently and would have a better understanding. But at the time they did a quality spread for our class. So what I mean by that is like, let's say that there's a class of 300. There's like tiered slots. It's like one bucket number one's for the first 100, second bucket for next, and so on.

00;10;43;11 - 00;11;00;12 Unknown They did not want to have particular job specialties to be all lopsided with all like top performers. Otherwise all the other molasses and chop specialties were going to be neglected. So they did a quality spread where, you know, you could be ranked number one and get your first choice. You'd be ranked number 200 and get your first choice.

00;11;00;12 - 00;11;21;17 Unknown You can be like number 300 bomb blast. Let's look at your first choice as well too. But the point being, though, the intent was to have a quality spread where you have high performers across all embassies. So, that was the mindset at that time in 2016 they may be doing today, I'm not sure, but at that time that we chose for me, I got my first choice, which was communication signals for me.

00;11;21;17 - 00;11;40;17 Unknown My preference is I want to be close to technology. I want to be close to being platoons of Marines and actually lead based on, you know, based on leadership development from the Naval Academy and also from coming from the Bates School in Quantico. And the main MOS is word you have the opportunity to do that were either two infantry logistics or communications and signals.

00;11;40;17 - 00;11;58;19 Unknown And so for me, it was a no brainer to choose one of those three. And I was able to get my top five choice of the comms signals. And that's where my journey began. Like it. Were you surprised after after that you had initial understanding of what? What that what do we call job classification? MOS yeah, we call them lessons with.

00;11;58;19 - 00;12;16;21 Unknown Did anything surprise you once you got into the C and you started leading the Marines and actually fulfilling the obligations of the role, any surprises? Oh, man, there's more surprises all the time. I would say that initially the impression we were going to the fleet after all this train, it's like, all right, I got all my act together, all the training.

00;12;16;21 - 00;12;49;01 Unknown And when you show up to your first unit and mission said you actually have no idea what you're doing at first. But that's why you have good NCO, you have good advisors, and you also have good officers, ideally to come alongside you and walk you through the process to teach you the process and systems of how the record does business and the particular with each unit, you know, whether you're in the Pacific or you're in the West Coast or East Coast, each unit has their own preference of how they do business, and so over a period of time, ideally, you'll be able to mold and adapt to that, to that team and unit, to be

00;12;49;01 - 00;13;09;00 Unknown able to use your skills that that's been developed to more through that. And yeah, it's definitely a growing process and learning process. And, you know, I can definitely say that I learned a lot of what to do as a leader, what not to do as leader. And and just have a and in due time, be able to grow my understanding of how the Marine Corps operates and the bigger picture.

00;13;09;03 - 00;13;39;29 Unknown Top three lessons learned. What are they who, number wants to trust but verify? It's a good one. I would say the second one would be it's okay to say no and learn how to have boundaries to, push back within reason. And that's a that's a growing skill. Let's continue that. That's a hard one. But I would say the third one would be just to have an optimistic attitude because, and just roll with the punches.

00;13;39;29 - 00;13;58;08 Unknown So, transmit, verify, learn how to say no. And if there is, I have enough in the sky too. I think those are those can go a long way. Yeah, those those are good ones. You have any one cert? Put you on the spot. You have any one circumstance that where you recall as an example of any one of those three.

00;13;58;11 - 00;14;13;04 Unknown Yeah. I would say trust but verify. I mean it is my first unit. I learned what to do or what not to do it later. I think Trump's a new lieutenant coming to a unit. There's an expectation that you're supposed to learn quickly and perform at the same time. You don't really know anything at the same time.

00;14;13;04 - 00;14;32;08 Unknown Depending on different units. Sometimes some units are under-resourced, both manpower and equipment. And so you just have to learn how to figure it out and you have to work do with what you had. And so the situation where I was was I didn't have a senior leader initially. And so I don't rely a lot on a bunch of, of NCOs along the time process.

00;14;32;08 - 00;14;51;24 Unknown And of course, and with rank and experience, there are things that people are aware of, things aren't, they're not aware of. And so I worked with what I had at the time. I was really grateful to those engineers because they understood where I was coming from. And they also at the same time. And so it was like a balance between trusting them but also verifying with them.

00;14;51;27 - 00;15;12;18 Unknown But I'm very grateful to them from those experiences because we went through a lot together. And whether it's unit inspections coming down from Marine Corps to just supporting different military exercises across the region, I would say that first unit, during that first term was pivotal in terms of development as an officer, in terms of, yeah, trusting but verify and learning how to have an optimistic attitude.

00;15;12;18 - 00;15;30;11 Unknown And it's it's such a lot of tough situations and also learn how to say no. Which it actually helped me out later down the road towards my second to our lot. So I think often back about that first tour, a lot has been pivotal to to follow up. So that so where was your first assignment? I wanted to travel and see the world.

00;15;30;16 - 00;16;09;28 Unknown And so I made a point. Prior to go to Okinawa, Japan was my first choice for the Marine Corps. And I would say that that first unit was with the Marine Wing, Communication Squadron 18. That's based over on Camp Foster and Okinawa, Japan. Basically, their main mission is to provide communications for first marine aircraft, weighing whether it's with tilt rotor aircraft such as Beat Ospreys or skids like Cobras, Vipers, whatnot, or depending on which unit, fixed wings the power of you're attached to the units, but holistically is to provide communication support for the aircraft component of the Marine Corps and the commanding general who supports, first of all, so that was the

00;16;09;28 - 00;16;41;24 Unknown main mission, part of that mission to after I got experience, I've able to commander and eventually pivoted to me becoming an independent S6 or independent, I guess. Trusted advisor, communications advisor for the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, which is, for a continuous deployed unit over in the Pacific that provides a variety of mission profiles for our nation, whether it's from humanitarian assistance and disaster relief to our partners in region or providing a lot of power combat power capabilities for our nation and our partner allies within region as well, too, in terms of deterrence.

00;16;41;27 - 00;17;02;14 Unknown But those were the main to mission to the surface. MEU but holistically, that's where I was. So Okinawa, Japan Brewing Communication Squadron 18, eventually, after getting some experience, then pushed a three person view which postured me up for later going down to Middle East later. But I loved every bit of it. I love, I love traveling, and I definitely was able to travel and see the world during that time.

00;17;02;20 - 00;17;27;14 Unknown So learning from your senior and CEOs, maybe some junior NCOs and how Marines are sometimes any pranks shenanigans that you remember when they know that we have a new lieutenant coming in, we're going to show them some ropes, but no, actually had a good bunch. I definitely had to get my employee to our pranks on me. I think it takes time to build rapport.

00;17;27;14 - 00;17;48;06 Unknown And I think that what really built rapport between myself and them and trust me, and going to continuous requests, just they knew the pressure that I was going through. And you sure that giant cared for their well-being? And even though I may have been during my initial my first time being a leader at that situation, they were very forgiving.

00;17;48;08 - 00;18;05;24 Unknown Like, okay, I know they recognize that how he's going through some pressures will work through it, but over a period of time over that year and a half, we really trust each other a lot. You know, they've been never back, you know, just to help me out. You know, as engineers, the main four three Mandela Kowski, Seth Low, Chad Allen, very grateful to them.

00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;01 Unknown There were corporals and sergeants at the time, E45 but, they were definitely the glue for that. And also my platoon sergeant, Dajuan Phillips and Solis and others. But, they were pivotal in terms of, you know, if I didn't have them. Oh my gosh, I would not have been successful at all. So I'm a product of their success.

00;18;26;03 - 00;18;48;26 Unknown Yeah. That's that's good answer. Support. No better friend. Right. 90% 90%. But I know there's something in there that you don't let you leave it out. So we'll just leave it at though because you're, you're you're doing the right thing. So your second, second, duty station was that, that was in Bahrain in the Middle Eastern.

00;18;48;28 - 00;19;07;26 Unknown I knew that, my time being a camo comms and signal officer that do you location preferences in terms of going to Middle East and being attached? Was pretty limited, but at the time, moving from Japan to the Middle East, my three options were Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain. I put that in and that particular preference order.

00;19;07;29 - 00;19;25;07 Unknown And I came Bahrain, which candidly at the time I was pretty ignorant. I was like, I don't even know where the country Bahrain sat. I know what Saudi Arabia is. I've heard of the UAE, I know where Bahrain is. And so after going some googling everything to figure out of all small, tiny kingdom just to the east of Saudi Arabia, but I am going to Bahrain.

00;19;25;07 - 00;19;54;07 Unknown And as Palmer sent G6 or Marine Central Command G essentially in that role, I was providing it communication support for all Marine Corps forces across the entire Middle East region. So whether it's supporting SPE, Mac, Taft, special purpose Mac tasks, or supporting any marine as you come into theater, what is the 22nd you 26, me or whoever? There's a joint Naval Marine Corps command called Task Force 51 five or Task Force 51 from the Navy, joint with a fifth Marine Expeditionary gave them Marine Corps.

00;19;54;10 - 00;20;18;05 Unknown But essentially, these folks would take control of this joint, any Marine Corps forces that come in the region. So I was there from 2020 to 2022. That was a zone challenge by itself. But definitely my first four experience definitely helped posture me to be better equipped of how to support that mission. And I also had, some great teammates as well too, in order to make that successful.

00;20;18;05 - 00;20;36;07 Unknown But the Middle East Centcom was my second choice, and I was able to continue my passion of traveling, seeing the world and doing so in the Middle East. Nice. Yeah, that's that's a good it's a good mix. I mean, it's, it's a long time though. So that's where with two you said three and two. Yeah. Three and two.

00;20;36;07 - 00;20;54;17 Unknown So I was about three and a half. Yeah. December 2017 one to August 2020 was for Japan. And then from August 2022 till November 2022, that was, in the Middle East. Got it. What are some of the some of the key things that you learned now that you had the what's lengthy times in each of those locations, but different experiences, I'm sure.

00;20;54;17 - 00;21;18;10 Unknown So what what was the beginning of where you started to recognize whether or not you were going to continue on reenlist or, choose to transition out? You know, every servicemember goes through that transition work, whether you're to your first enlistment after your fourth four years, if you're a junior military officer, in terms of initial five years or so, I think we all have that conversation.

00;21;18;13 - 00;21;33;03 Unknown And so, you know, I recognize that people come from different units, right? Some of them may have a really positive experience, some you really have a really crappy experience. And so that really dictates and shapes people's decision process of whether they want to get the heck out as soon as possible or they really love it. And if we continue it.

00;21;33;04 - 00;21;52;01 Unknown So I do recognize that it's going to vary for different people. But I enjoyed my time as much as it was challenging. And I made the decision point. Probably as I was moving to the Middle East, I was thinking about myself. Do I want to go back to Okinawa to become a company commander and join, third Marine Division in terms of that track, you know, career trajectory?

00;21;52;01 - 00;22;14;23 Unknown Or should I pivot and just pivot to the private sector and I was leaning probably a 6040 split initially, 60% up getting out, 40% staying in, while I was in Middle East, mainly because I had some family circumstances. My family, and something I didn't mention earlier is that after my, you know, after I went to college, my folks became empty nesters and moved from Alabama to California.

00;22;14;26 - 00;22;38;05 Unknown And so since I have been away from home for over almost five years now, it was five years, it was time for me just to come back home and be closer to family. And so the decision in terms of being closer to family and also looking at the career trajectory too candidly to see a 4 to 5 in terms of within the community, some loved it, some maturity, and we're just okay with it.

00;22;38;07 - 00;22;56;25 Unknown And I, I recognize that maybe that, my perspective is limited compared to other people's experiences, but at least with my experience in my circle, it was a confirmation for me. Just talking with them candidly from like 1 to 1 about their career trajectory, is that just hearing their stories and the challenges? It was for me, it was time for me just to move on based on this conversation.

00;22;56;25 - 00;23;15;19 Unknown So. So yeah, that's a long way of me of saying that the decision process to move out was initially was moving to the Middle East, and at the same time, while I was finishing my second tour, I was already having conversations with different folks, both who are thinking about those who stayed in in terms of understand why they wanted to.

00;23;15;19 - 00;23;38;01 Unknown And I started talking to other, folks who recently transition. We're going through a transition themselves, or those who are two years removed as well, too, because I want to have a holistic approach of what people's experiences were in the transition, because it's definitely not easy, and everyone's transition is very personal, and it's gonna look very different. That talk.

00;23;38;04 - 00;23;59;28 Unknown So let's can we circle around that topic for a little bit. So about how long from your termination date or separation date did you start that process. Was it as you were going to Bahrain or early while you were there? Discharge the question of how long did it take me? I would say it took roughly about one year.

00;24;00;02 - 00;24;23;04 Unknown I made is when I got back from leave in October 2021, while still station and the Middle East, I made the decision thought process, thought process to actually leave. I started the administration process at least formally lay my battalion commander know and others a decision thought process. And so that way once giving due diligence to the unit to make sure there's like unit continuity, to make sure that our operations are impeded.

00;24;23;04 - 00;24;46;13 Unknown Based on my decision to leave, it also allowed both from the senior advisors and also the officer corps to do in terms of manpower projections, in terms of once you onboard the next batch or crew for to replace myself. But, yeah, I started and verbalized that conversation in October 2021, went through the admin process. By the summer 2022, I think it was like June 2022.

00;24;46;13 - 00;25;16;12 Unknown That's when I got official resignation papers were approved. And I basically, because I really enjoyed my time in the Middle East as I just to write it out until my replacement came in around the late fall of 2022. Got it. Yes. And so I'm asking because when we get when we get this far in a conversation with, well, recent service members who transition to veteran status, it's always an interesting like it's not it's not even a discussion.

00;25;16;12 - 00;25;53;08 Unknown It's just to understand the timelines because you all have branches, different branches. Consider the available resources at certain times. Right. So that, you know, generally speaking, a sweeping statement is officers probably get a little bit more information earlier when the longer you're in two years out, you start processing or thinking about the idea to where you can have an opportunity to process and then, you know, enlisted maybe a year out and, you know, so it's in a in a timeline of what you're indicating, a five years in a first term, first enlistment.

00;25;53;10 - 00;26;13;20 Unknown What what is the typical timelines that people start to consider these things? Because what we're finding, again, anecdotal data, what we're finding is planning is sometimes more prominently last minute and last minute in the sense of within a year they there's a decision to make, you know, I don't want to do this. I want to do something else.

00;26;13;20 - 00;26;36;11 Unknown Or for whatever reason is the reasons matter less. It's just when you when you land on that. So looking at the priorities and the process, you mentioned that you started to network and and ask people both in who who are thinking about it what their experiences were, that, is that a common thing? Do you think that somebody like you is planning to get out?

00;26;36;11 - 00;26;57;29 Unknown And then you started to ask around to, to get information that would help you with that decision, or is that something that you found yourself to be different in that sense than others? I think the general principles are the same. I think that the way I like to view it, and I think what makes it different, it's just like the types of people that you're with in terms of where they are severely.

00;26;58;04 - 00;27;16;14 Unknown Well, I don't say severely, but it greatly will affect your decision process. So that's why I, I would encourage all veterans, regardless whether you're also in listen to really because you don't know what you know, to really encourage to you to reach out to other military veterans across the community to find out their journey from the military to where they are today, regardless of industry.

00;27;16;16 - 00;27;33;10 Unknown You know, the example I like to think about is like concentric circles, right? So in your inner core, you got yourself in a dead center. And then as you as you branch out, you have your family friends, right? Like, oh, how did you know Uncle Joe or my neighbor Bob or whoever? How did we get to do our job?

00;27;33;10 - 00;27;52;10 Unknown They are today, right? And as you're expanding from your family, friends, then you're going to your former teammates as your buddies, whether they finish your enlistment or they finish their off for, you know, a term, you asked about their process and then from there, whether you went to college or you didn't. But if there's any alumni that you know of, those are folks that can reach out.

00;27;52;10 - 00;28;11;12 Unknown And eventually when you get to the outer rings of the concentric circle, that's using LinkedIn is a fantastic tool. In order to help narrow your search of reaching out and connecting to different veterans and to reach out to them at different seasons of whenever they transition. That's true. That's a good point. And that that's a good plan, you know, to define.

00;28;11;15 - 00;28;36;00 Unknown And then ironic that you say circle, find who within your circle and how that that circle is expansive and there's layers to the circles and the relationships you have and those you serve with, those you maybe didn't. And then you use tools to be able to extend that process, like LinkedIn or social media in some capacity, where you can be intentional about looking for specific individuals that fit mostly with what you know.

00;28;36;03 - 00;29;11;26 Unknown Because like you mentioned, you don't know what you don't know. Sometimes you know what you don't know. And that that's part of the process is to get to that part. Oh, I didn't think about that. Let me go pursue that. So when it when it comes to the process, at which point did you start to feel like you had a good grip on the outside world, the civilian world in where to go and how to position yourself so others can see you for you, not the uniform you were wearing or the rank that you had, I think is going to differ based on folks.

00;29;11;26 - 00;29;44;17 Unknown I would say for me, I'd say it's taken me probably a little over a year, year and a half. But I'm still continue to learn that right? Because, you know, it is a major lifestyle change from the military to the corporate sector and the civilian life. But if I had to say that, you know, if I encourage veterans regardless, like those still in the service to think about getting out, those are transitioning or or those who Rafe transition out, it is, I think, a framework to encourage those folks would be the one is to define what your successes.

00;29;44;19 - 00;30;11;03 Unknown And it's okay not to know initially what your success is. But I think in this discover self discovery process, as you reach out to different veterans and, teammates, former teammates, you're able to get a picture in terms of what you like and what you don't like. And I think it's the first time in your life where the Army or Marine Corps or Uncle Sam does have to tell you, hey, you're going to go to your second choice duty station or your last duty past duty station of choice.

00;30;11;06 - 00;30;35;19 Unknown So I would say that, so you're all thinking about this is to think about the location, think about, you know, the salary, what you're expecting post military and even the type of role and function you might be part of. And it's okay to be really honest, to say to yourself that, hey, if the Marine Corps or Army or whoever plays me into a job function like our MOS, I really didn't want to do, it's okay to say that you didn't want to do it, and you can play it, pivot.

00;30;35;27 - 00;31;08;24 Unknown And whatever your goal you're think of to pivot from what you did to Army or Marine Corps to a completely different function. Whatever you see, the gap is, if any of you need to go to school, which you can definitely leverage your GI Bill. And there are plenty of like, fantastic nonprofit organizations that help both officers and enlisted, especially the enlisted, there are resources such as like, you know, services schools, which is a nonprofit program that helps, veterans, leverage your GI Bill and pivot and serve as advisors and get help them matriculate to the school of their dreams, regardless of rank.

00;31;08;27 - 00;31;30;03 Unknown And they potentially pair you with veterans who've gone through it themselves. So, whether it's parents with enlisted, with enlisted or officer, with officer or so on, so on, that's a fantastic resource that veterans can leverage to use to bridge that gap. And they see an interesting gap between their skills and education to their dream job. But yeah, I would say, number one, define your success.

00;31;30;03 - 00;31;46;24 Unknown And within that success, even if you don't know if that's okay, but just start having conversations with veterans about, you know, what they do, how they get to where they are today. And in those conversations, you're going to be, you know, you'll soon find out in terms of what you're okay with and what you're not okay with.

00;31;46;27 - 00;32;03;24 Unknown Like for me is I know I want to be in the West Coast because my family's in the West Coast. And this time frame, you know, I talk to different veterans in different industries, whether it's consulting, finance, technology and consulting and finance live. But something that I do not want to do with the long hours of any 100 hour work weeks.

00;32;03;24 - 00;32;24;05 Unknown While the salary may be amazing, but the work life fit is horrible. And so the reason why I got out is so that I can be closer to family. And so, you know, for me, and because my interest in technology intrinsically, the technology sector seem to be the best fit, and there are different programs I can help you pivot in the tech space.

00;32;24;05 - 00;32;48;11 Unknown I mean, obviously, Oracle's then our internship program is a fantastic program. I'm a product of that today. For those who aren't familiar with that program or Oracle Veteran Internship program, essentially it's a 12 week internship program to provide corporate experiences and exposure to these transition military veterans, transition veterans, and military spouses. And I would say that the program offers to do three things.

00;32;48;14 - 00;33;13;10 Unknown The ones that validate what you're interested in in tech space. So you're building your industry interest. Second is that you're valuing the job function or role. So I know that a lot of veterans tend to gravitate towards project management. As a go to, as you go to job. But some folks may not enjoy project management. And so but then if you look at the list of what it has to offer, there's so many different roles in the tech space.

00;33;13;12 - 00;33;30;24 Unknown You do sales for the Customer Success Post-sales, but there's so many different job functions that veterans can do and can succeed and do. So with that 12 week internship program, you're able to validate whether this is a particular job role and function that you want to do. And the last aspect is what's not guaranteed. But there's a potential for employment depending on that.

00;33;30;24 - 00;34;04;16 Unknown There is headcount available for that. But there are resources out there to help their, transition into the next, next step. But for those who are interested in technology and interested and having a corporate experience, in a well-organized way, I would definitely strongly encourage Oracle's veteran internship program. There's also a newer, initiative called Cloud Launch for new grads, that's open to both military spouses and veterans, where if if veterans are interested in pursuing a career in sales engineering or cloud architects, it's called cloud launch.

00;34;04;19 - 00;34;29;02 Unknown That's something that's, that's that's a particular path that folks can consider. And I believe there's also something within that suite. I'm not too familiar with that. But from I understand, I think that's what does a lot of, veteran hire initiatives as well, too. But at least for those who are interested in Oracle, you can either choose the Purple Veteran Internship program, which is the cloud launch, and you could have you can also choose and that me and regardless whether yeah, I mean those are just fantastic resources you can consider.

00;34;29;02 - 00;34;52;19 Unknown But there's plenty of options out there. Let me pause right there, Chris. I know there was a lot on one take. Let me know what percentiles I can try to address now. That's good. You just saved me a lot of words because you covered the things that that I was hoping we we could discuss. But going back to one of the options, because I'm curious when when you were thinking about getting out, did you know about skill bridge?

00;34;52;22 - 00;35;21;19 Unknown I did know about Skill Bridge, and I would definitely encourage veterans to definitely leverage that. For me, in terms of my billet, I wasn't really afforded the opportunity to have skill bridge, mainly because it's a high priority billet in terms of I was a part of. And so and it's a lot harder to transition overseas and that I say it's doable for I mean it's I'm sure it's doable for those overseas, but there's a lot more challenging to transition from overseas rather than back in Conus in the United States, continental U.S., actually U.S. soil.

00;35;21;24 - 00;35;43;27 Unknown I would definitely leverage skill bridge if possible, but I recognize that it's unit dependent. So whether you're a baton commander or there needs to be a unit, I mean, it's I'm content on their approval. But if you can, I would strongly, strongly advocate for all veterans, regardless of rank after enlisted to leverage that, because that's a great first taste, corporate sector and kind of the three things I talked about.

00;35;43;27 - 00;36;02;24 Unknown Right. This is a particular entry you want to be a part of. This is a it's a job function that you want to do. And it can be a potential source of employment. Yes. And you landed on the distinction as well as the benefit and that that's part of some of the challenges that service members face is being exposed to those opportunities.

00;36;02;24 - 00;36;23;15 Unknown So I'm very grateful you brought them up because it does matter. The most important component you talked about is when you start to identify your successes, you're going to be able to now relate to opportunities that can continue, that allow you to continue on your successes and that does include the research, the networking, the conversations you have with others so you can learn about those things that you weren't aware of.

00;36;23;15 - 00;36;44;21 Unknown And skill bridge sometimes seems to be something that not every person, every service member is made aware of because of one thing or the other. And so with this conversation and conversations like these, we hope to bring more awareness to those serving so they know what their options include. It's case they're not getting a complete download of of what's available to them.

00;36;44;28 - 00;37;05;28 Unknown So thanks for sharing those things. And how how did you end up hearing about Oracle Veteran Internship Program over it? It kind of goes back to number one and talked about earlier about your network and reaching out. So I went through LinkedIn and I just started looking at veterans in different parts of the industry. And at least in terms of defining my success, I knew I wanted to be in the industry of technology.

00;37;06;01 - 00;37;23;13 Unknown And so I started reaching out to different veterans on LinkedIn and just asking for, hey, whether they were in person, I would be for a cup of coffee, or whether it's just the nature of being so spread out across the states. She's asking for a 15 20 minute chats over zoom or whatever, and some would answer some or not respond.

00;37;23;13 - 00;37;48;07 Unknown You get a mixed bag of responses. But for those who did respond, there was one veteran who responded and he mentioned to me about open. And so I first heard about Covid, probably, ooh, I think that's the fall of 2023. That's when I first heard about that. I actually applied. And for the December winter cohort, I did not get accepted, but I was not deterred by that.

00;37;48;11 - 00;38;07;10 Unknown So I made a stronger application come the second round. And I was fortunate enough to get in. But it's a long way of me of saying I, through a LinkedIn outreach to another veteran, ever veteran, patient forward. That's how I was able to find that open. Yeah, no thanks for sharing that. And there's a couple anomalies inside that before we, transition to close, it's, calling out the distinction between a networking.

00;38;07;10 - 00;38;28;07 Unknown You know, you can get your networking game, improve your networking game, you know, if it's important. Networking and splitting hairs on this. Networking is networking where you're just reaching out and you're trying to establish a basis of connections. And I think that's the distinction. And if we kind of split hairs on words, what you really trying to do is make connections through networking.

00;38;28;10 - 00;38;54;11 Unknown Right? So networking is a process in my mind. Connections is the intended outcome. I want to connect with people that are in a space that I want to get to, or in this case, using a channel like LinkedIn or social media or some other avenue that's available to you, email, text buddies, you know, the buddy system. There's a pass through at some point to where a tool like in this case LinkedIn, becomes almost critical because not everybody uses it.

00;38;54;11 - 00;39;16;05 Unknown Some people will know to set it up, but they don't. As you may have experienced, some of those non-response is include people. Just don't look at it. It's not meaning they're ignoring the messages that come in, but, like anything else, they could also be overwhelmed with the number of questions they get. But it is important that we remember to reach out to those to give people an opportunity to pay it forward.

00;39;16;05 - 00;39;35;16 Unknown Because I love that you said that. Not everybody knows how. Like, what can I do? So as we transition and close out, what are some of the things that you want to leave with the listeners of, you know, not only what you going to do, but what what do you what advice do you give others to to help them understand what they can do to help?

00;39;35;21 - 00;39;56;09 Unknown Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a good reminder to ourselves that just remember, like we used to be in those other people's shoes initially in terms of getting out sometimes, like whether you're a decade out in terms of the transition or maybe five years or maybe four, maybe just recently. Just remember, in terms of where the other people are coming from, in terms of whether it's a transition and they're going to ask questions.

00;39;56;12 - 00;40;13;02 Unknown And of course, you know, we may be a little impatient in terms of the way they ask questions, maybe a little too direct. There's a there's in the corporate past that we needed. But, you know, we need people where they are. And so I would encourage for folks just to continue to pay it forward, because I would like to think that for where we are today, it's a product.

00;40;13;02 - 00;40;26;18 Unknown We're a product of other people's input that are paying it forward are those who took the time to mentor us, but it's going to pay for, I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what you sign up for in terms of the services to, you know, so it's a is a community service and so committed to the team.

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;46;10 Unknown And so just because we need a uniform, yes. There's an element of we have left the service. But it doesn't really we don't really need it because intrinsically it's but if you've been a part of it, give up our last word. So if you do pay it forward for at least for those who got out, continue to pay it forward and then for those who are transitioning, yeah, I would say classically.

00;40;46;13 - 00;41;09;20 Unknown Yeah. Number one, define your success and be honest yourself. It's okay not to know. And the second thing, for those who are thinking about the practicality out number two is to talk with veterans and different in the transition, especially from. So that way you get a holistic approach of being informed of what it's actually like. So I would say those who recently got out, those were a few years out and those who got out like a ten, like a decade or so more.

00;41;09;20 - 00;41;29;16 Unknown So that way you can have a holistic approach. And the third aspect would just be continue to network and start with the concentric circle model of like start with the family, friends, your former teammates, college alumni that applies to you, and going through at least an outreach. So that way you can help validate, the industry and your own success from those conversations.

00;41;29;18 - 00;42;06;21 Unknown Yeah. It's solid, that sound I will sprinkle in. The three lessons learned also can be universally applicable to this, right? So trust but verify when people are coming to you and they're asking some things and hey, I did this. You trust that they they have because this leads to the next thing. It's okay to sometimes say no and push back on people to do a little bit more diligent effort into preparing, because if you don't do anything and you ask somebody for time, it can lead to being overwhelmed towards, that's maybe why you're not getting the help and support that you expect when people are capable of paying it forward, but sometimes give you the

00;42;06;21 - 00;42;26;10 Unknown impression that they're not because, you know, and that's the last thing is optimistic attitude you expressed that you talked about in 2023. You tried to apply or you applied. Try to get in through all of it because you were wanting to now experience what it was going to be able to provide, and you didn't get the results that you had hoped for.

00;42;26;10 - 00;42;43;19 Unknown So you get back at it and you came back, and now here you are. So great lessons to be learned, great advice, how that you're given. Thank you so much for making time today. Appreciate. You know thank you Chris. And yeah, for those I mean I'm not sure everyone dropped my LinkedIn when I happy to connect with other veterans in thermite LinkedIn and more than happy to help out.

00;42;43;21 - 00;42;58;16 Unknown Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, how we how he's information contact details will be in the podcast description. All right. Howie, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Chris. Cardi one keep moving forward.