Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training podcast

#Careers #Business #Public Speaking #Podcasting Education #Self-Improvement #Dr Andrea Wojnicki #Personal Brand

34:07

In this insightful episode of The Innovators & Investors Podcast, host Kristian Marquez sits down with Jay Crone, Managing Director and Venture Capitalist at Deloitte Ventures, to explore the firm’s strategic approach to corporate venture capital. Jay shares Deloitte Ventures’ investment thesis, focusing on supporting innovative Canadian startups at Series A and B stages across key sectors like cybersecurity, climate tech, fintech, future of work, health tech, and AI. Listeners will gain an inside look at how Deloitte leverages its vast network of 1,500 partners and 15,000 employees to source deals and add value beyond capital by helping startups navigate Deloitte’s complex ecosystem and access enterprise clients. Jay also discusses his diverse career journey—from government and investment banking to entrepreneurship and corporate VC—and how those experiences shape his investment philosophy. The episode delves into Deloitte’s due diligence process, the importance of founder relationships, and the firm’s strategic role as a co-investor. Jay highlights emerging trends, particularly the promise of vertical AI tailored to industry-specific needs, and shares his bullish outlook on fintech innovations like stablecoins and cross-border payments. He offers candid advice for entrepreneurs on risk-taking and aligning business vision with funding goals. This episode is a must-listen for founders, investors, and anyone interested in the evolving landscape of corporate venture capital and innovation in Canada. Learn more about Jay's work at https://www.deloitte.com/ca/en/services/program/ventures.html Connect with Jay on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaycrone/ Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply at https://finstratmgmt.com/innovators-investors-podcast/ Want to learn more about Kristian Marquez's work? Check out his website at https://finstratmgmt.com…

Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

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Dr. Andrea Wojnicki is a Harvard-educated executive communication coach whose research focuses on interpersonal communication and consumer psychology. Learn the communication mindsets and tactics that will help you accelerate your career trajectory. Based on her research and guest interviews, Andrea will coach you on topics including: • overcoming imposter syndrome and communicating with confidence • developing executive presence and leadership skills • communicating with precision • building your personal brand • how to leverage storytelling • improving your listening skills • how to Introduce yourself and more! Focusing on your COMMUNICATION SKILLS means elevating your confidence, your clarity, your credibility, and ultimately your impact. Subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast and don’t forget to sign up for the free communication skills newsletter – it’s free communication skills coaching in your email inbox!

202 episodes

Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

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updated 6 days ago

Series home•Feed

202 episodes

#Careers #Business #Public Speaking #Podcasting Education #Self-Improvement #Dr Andrea Wojnicki #Personal Brand

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Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

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The #1 Networking Mistake Smart Professionals Make—and How to Fix It with Shelly Lombard (ep.192) 49:36

6 days ago49:36

49:36

Think networking means being transactional or self-promotional? Think again. Shelly Lombard, former Wall Street analyst and founder of Schmooze, shares her playbook for building a strategic network without feeling fake. You’ll learn how to reconnect with weak ties, build visibility on LinkedIn, and follow up in a way that feels natural, not awkward. Ready to speak up, stand out, and lead with gravitas? Join my 6-week Women’s Personal Branding Masterclass, starting Oct 15. Register by Aug. 15 and save $250 with code EARLYBIRDFALL at TalkAboutTalk.com . CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ Podcast – Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talk-about-talk-communication-skills-training/id1447267503 Podcast – Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3afgjXuYZPmNAfIrbn8zXn?si=9ebfc87768524369 CONNECT WITH SHELLY Website: https://schmooze.biz/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shellylombard/ Newsletter: Schmooze https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/schmooze-7018971677694840833/ MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE The Lost Art of Connecting by Susan McPherson: https://amzn.to/46d84X1 F*ck Being Humble by Stefanie Sword-Williams: https://amzn.to/46O8kfa TRANSCRIPTION Shelly Lombard: Reach out to those weak ties. Say every week, three people, somebody I worked with 10 years ago, I’m just gonna ping them. Hey, thought of you. That kind of thing. It’s only transactional when you’re not keeping in touch with people. Andrea Wojnicki – Talk About Talk: If you think networking is just schmoozing at cocktail parties or collecting LinkedIn connections, you’re gonna wanna hear what my guest has to say. Shelly Lombard spent 30 years on Wall Street making high-stakes investment calls and building a career that, frankly, most people would envy. However, by her own admission, she did some things wrong. Here’s What You’ll Learn In this conversation that you’re about to hear, Shelly opens up about the missed relationships that could have completely changed the trajectory of her career and how she finally learned to stop believing that just doing the good work would earn her a seat at the table. If you’ve ever hesitated to reach out or worried about bothering someone, then this episode will change the way you think. You’re gonna get practical tips to grow your network without feeling pushy or fake or self-promotional, and you’ll walk away knowing exactly what you need to do to build real relationships that open real doors. If this is your first time here, I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. This is Talk about Talk, where I coach ambitious executives like you to communicate with confidence and credibility. I also write an email newsletter that you can subscribe to at the link below if you’re on YouTube. Or in the show notes if you’re listening on any other podcast platform. So now, without further ado, let me introduce Shelly Lombard, and then we’ll jump right into our conversation. And at the end, as always, I’m gonna summarize with three key learnings that I wanna reinforce with you. Introducing Shelly Lombard I met Shelly Lombard on LinkedIn, believe it or not—and let me tell you, Shelly is a force for good. She worked on Wall Street for over three decades, and early in her career, she was one of only a handful of women specializing in investing in distressed companies. In the early 2000s, she became one of the most quoted automotive analysts on Wall Street, frequently appearing in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and CNBC. After her Wall Street career, she began serving on corporate boards, including the board of Bed Bath & Beyond, among others. Shelly recently launched Schmooze, an initiative that supports and encourages professional women to build strong business networks and close the gap between where they are in their careers—and where they want to be, whether that’s a board seat, the C-suite, or a career pivot. Schmooze offers mini masterclasses in networking—and yes, I’ve personally led one of them. Let me tell you, Shelly has created something really special. She also hosts Schmooze events that serve as an alternative to the golf outings and sporting events that men have traditionally used to build business relationships. Thank you so much, Shelly, for being here today to talk with me and the Talk about Talk listeners about networking. SL: I am thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for having me. AW: I’m so excited about having the opportunity to talk to you in person. It’s virtual, but we’re one-on-one here. I really admire what you’re doing on LinkedIn. Before I pressed record, I was sharing wit h Shelly how much I enjoy reading her posts on LinkedIn. She shows personality, and you can tell that what she’s doing brings her joy, and then it, in turn, brings the rest of us joy. In fact, last night I read one of her posts to my teenage daughter, and I made her laugh. Shelly, thank you for making LinkedIn a better place. SL: Yeah, and teenagers are tough too, so she, yeah, I’m impressed because she laughed. That made me feel good, ’cause teenagers are tough. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. AW: Toughest critics. Toughest critics. Yeah. Okay, so I just read your introduction, but I want to ask you, after spending over three decades in Wall Street. How did networking specifically help you succeed in such a competitive, intense environment? The Missed Opportunities That Sparked a Mission SL: Yeah, so you know what? What I will say is that I was not as successful as I could have been. I was not intentional about networking. I wasn’t strategic about it. I could have been much more successful if I was. I had a good run, but I would’ve been more successful. My career would’ve gone maybe in different directions, et cetera. I approached networking. I was very happenstance, half ass, oh, I like you. Let’s have lunch. But there was no really, oh, let me think through. I probably should get to know this person. I did belong to a small group of women. At that time, there were only a handful of women doing what I was doing on Wall Street. Women on Wall Street were there. There weren’t as many of us. But what I was doing, which was investing in distressed companies, there were even fewer. So we formed a little group and we would get together for dinner, every other month or something like that. But that was about the extent of it. And I think one reason I wasn’t more intentional is that I’m an introvert. People don’t believe that, but I am definitely an introvert, and I’m shy. So that’s different from being an introvert. I’m an introvert, and I’m shy. And then the second reason is I didn’t know any better. Like my parents were teachers, and it was expected that you would go to college and then get a good job, and then, hopefully, stay there for your entire career. But nobody told me anything about networking or forming relationships. They didn’t know that wasn’t their world, and I didn’t figure it out on my own. So I felt like I missed out on opportunities that I didn’t even know I was missing. I’ll tell you a quick story. Two guys I should have kept in touch with, and a lot of the people I worked with over three decades did really well on Wall Street, and I didn’t really; I wasn’t strategic enough to stay in touch with any of them. One was a guy named Chad, our bank merged with another bank. He was my boss’s boss. Great guy. And he, as part of the merger, lost his job. Great guy. He landed on his feet somewhere else. I should have kept in touch with him, but I didn’t. Another guy who after the merger, replaced this guy, Chad, his name was Jimmy. And Jimmy was my boss’s boss. Like he was way up there. And so when the two banks merged. They had a meeting for everybody who was vice president and above, and I think I might’ve been the only person of color in the room, certainly the only woman of color in the room. But as a result, Jimmy knew me, and this was years ago. I’m sure it would be different these days, maybe not so much different. But as a result, the good thing was Jimmy knew who I was, so I would get on the elevator and he might be on there already, be like, Shelly, hey. And then he liked FaceTime. So he was one of those people who liked you to be at your desk for long hours on trading floors. People usually left six o’clock, but I might be there like seven o’clock, and he would walk around just to see who was still working. He liked that and he would always talk to me, Hey Shelly, how you doing? And I would just say, Hey, and go back to work. I never engaged with him. I never tried to develop a relationship. So like I said, I’m shy. I’m an introvert, and I just didn’t know any better, and I didn’t figure out it out on my own. And had he obviously was reaching out to me. Had I taken him up on that, I might still be sitting at, it’s now JP Morgan, but I might still be sitting there and it would’ve made a world of difference in my career. AW: So hindsight’s 2020. You identified Shelly the one thing that you did do right was you connected with some women and you had dinners with them, every second month, which is great. But would you say it’s true, maybe then that you started Schmooze because of some regrets that you had about how you managed your career, specifically in terms of networking? And if so, I see you nodding your hair, your head there. What gaps are you aiming to fill for women in business through Schmooze? SL: Yeah. So you’re absolutely dead on, right? I started Schmooze to help other women avoid the mistakes that I made. And so a turning point for me was working from home. So, toward the latter part of my career, I worked for a small boutique that researched investments. And, fidelity was a client, Goldman Sachs was a client, and they let us work from home. And so working from home was great for my life and for managing my kids, and I didn’t have to commute into Manhattan, et cetera. But when I reared my head from that job, when that job ended right around the time of the financial crisis, a little bit after that, I realized I had let my contacts go dormant. Like people would call me and say, Hey, meet me in Manhattan for a drink. And I’m like, girl, I’m. Sitting in my pajamas, with a baseball cap on, and I’m getting ready to take my son to soccer. The second thing, inflection point was when I left Wall Street and I started serving on corporate boards, and once I did, I learned that 80% of corporate board rules are filled through relationships. One woman said to me, when somebody leaves, when one guy leaves a corporate board, the other guys in the room look around at each other and they go, okay, who do we know? And so if you are not known to them, if you don’t have a relationship with them, they obviously go to a guy in their network. So those things hit if I didn’t realize it before, those two things, working from home and corporate boards. hammer the point home. So what I’m trying to do with schmooze is one, encourage women to do it and to understand how important it is. And also to give them tools. So helping them to learn what I call networking hacks, like curiosity. So one of the things that kept me from inviting Chad or Jimmy out for a drink or a cup of coffee was like, I’m like, okay, now I gotta talk to him. What do I talk to him about? And curiosity is a hack. I didn’t have to be charming. I didn’t have to be like knowledgeable. I thought I had to be all these things to have a conversation with them if I had engaged with Jimmy over what about what the bank was doing, ’cause he was a real deal junkie. He loved deals and being a big bank and a big kahuna in the market. If I had started saying to him, Hey, so I hear we’re working on a deal for Procter and Gamble or something like that. What’s going on with that? He would’ve talked to me for hours. So I didn’t have to be smart. I didn’t have to come across as charming and knowledgeable about the market. Curiosity would’ve helped me to build a relationship with him, and we’ve actually had a schmooze class on networking internally and how you can use curiosity to build your internal network, and it would’ve made all the difference with Jimmy. Making the Shift from Transactional to Intentional AW: I love that word, curiosity, because I think it’s very, instructive. It’s very actionable for people, ’cause we’ve all heard that if we wanna engage in a great conversation, we need to ask questions. But actually labeling that as curiosity, what can I be curious about with this person? I think that’s brilliant. So you’ve labeled, I guess now the first hack, and you spoke about your story about it being particularly difficult to network when you were working from home. Do you have any hacks for the listeners out there, including myself who want to network when they’re mostly working online at home? SL: Yeah. So I think you have to be, it’s, it was great for, my life wasn’t so great for my network. Visibility on LinkedIn makes all the difference in the world. So really lean into those tech tools. People talk about being zoomed out and too much Zoom, et cetera. But that was one of my issues back when I was working from home, is that Zoom didn’t exist. LinkedIn was a baby. So using those tools like Zoom to have coffees, LinkedIn, one of the things I intended to talk about today, which I’ve learned really makes a difference in social media, has made it possible, is being visible. And so what I would say to people working from home is be intentional about it. I wasn’t so people I was running into, so when I worked at the place where I was working from home, we had a PR person. So we our revenue model was subscriptions. So other firms did trades, and they got commissions. Our firm was strictly subscription-based, so people like Goldman Sachs at Fidelity, and hedge funds had subscriptions. So we had a PR person who would get us. In the paper. And I would, I was always quoted in the New York Times, the journal, I covered the auto industry. I was quoted in the auto news. And so people knew who I was, but I never followed up. Like I never, kind of took advantage of that. And so what I would say is working from home visibility is an important thing, and whether that’s being visible inside your company or outside your company, I was visible, but I’m, I’m happy to talk later about following up and the importance of following up. SL: I left there, that company, and lots of people knew my name, but I hadn’t followed up and built relationships with any of them. So I think working from home, you need to be more intentional. About relationship building, and you also need to be more intentional about being visible both internally and externally. AW: Oh gosh. Even in those quick anecdotes that you shared and stories of regrets and things that you were doing well, things that were going on. There’s so many hacks to, I think in the conclusion here, I’m gonna be listing what the hacks are. So there’s networking inside your organization, and then also being conscious of networking inside and outside of your organization. There’s the point, I think, that was subtly made. By you here, or maybe implicitly made, which is when something happens, like a press release, or you attend an event that could become a catalyst for you to share on social media, right? So nowadays, if you were interviewed, you could show the video or a photo of it, or even just talk about it right on social media to reinforce. So use these little events or big events as a catalyst, a topic for you to share with your audience. I’m wondering, just to back up for a minute, do you think this is different? For women versus men, Shelly. SL: Yeah. And remind me to talk more about visibility ’cause that’s another hack that I make sure I wanna talk about you. You started talking about it being visible, but yeah, absolutely. So I think it’s two things. With women, it’s a mindset. So we are trained to be good girls and pleasers, and we’re not comfortable being transactional because it implies that you’re not nice. I remember when I first started, so I got into this group before this group of women, who invested in distressed companies, existed. I remember being in a deal with another woman, and I reached out to her, Lisa, and I reached out to her and I said, Hey, you wanna have lunch? And then I felt Ooh, I felt like I didn’t want think that I wanted something. And so I remember saying, I just wanted to, I, I just thought, we should have lunch. And she was like, it’s okay. So I think women have a tougher time being transactional, and men don’t, they’ll take you to a Knicks game, they’ll take you to a golf game, and then they’re not. woo. If you reach out to them three months later, and hey, you know what I noticed, so and can you introduce me? I think also too, in terms of mindset, women think our work speaks for us, and it’s, it does not, your boss doesn’t always know what you’re doing. People in other companies that do what you do definitely don’t know what you’re doing. People outside your company definitely don’t know. So I think with women, it’s, we are afraid to be transactional and ask for stuff, and we’re also thinking, oh, my work speaks for itself. I think the other thing is time. So my sister has a thing, all roads lead to mom, all roads lead to mom. You are the emotional support person. You are the person who finds the summer camps very often. Maybe it’s different, in different, situations, different families. But I know in my family, my, my husband was involved. He would ferry people of soccer, et cetera. But I was a person who thought, oh, it’s time for Lindsay to get braces. Oh, you know what, Andrew needs to get his physical now so he can be ready for soccer in the fall. Yeah. Oh, Lindsay needs an SAT tutor. Yeah. I have never sat next to a man on a trading floor, and trading floors are open, so you don’t have an office and everybody’s, you can hear everybody’s conversation. I’ve never sat next to a man on a trading floor and heard him make a phone call about a birthday party. A clown, a pony? What time? What time does the bouncy house need to get there? Do I need extra insurance? That’s totally left to mom, and I had a little nanny at some point, but there’s certain things you can’t delegate. like finding a tutor or recognizing that the kid needs a tutor. So I didn’t have time to play golf, didn’t have time to get good enough at it to use it as a networking tool. So I think the two differences for women are mindset. And then also time, because when all roads lead to you, I think I read something a couple of years ago, it said, moms don’t do everything, but they make sure everything gets done. So even if it’s you saying to the babysitter, oh, can you do X, Y, and Z? A lot of times, that falls on us. And so I think women have to approach networking, be more intentional about it. It may not just happen. And I think we also have to be more intentional about how we think about it. AW: Yeah. So when I asked the question at first, Shelly, I thought you were gonna say, yeah, because it is harder for women because there are fewer of us which, which is your experience, and I believe it is in many industries, still the same. And you didn’t even go near that. You’re talking about the transactional nature of men’s relationships with each other about how women are assuming that their hard work is gonna speak for itself. And then this all roads lead back to mom. So here’s the thing, if you’re aware of these things, then it can almost become a superpower because you can work to un to undo them or to at least mitigate their negative impact. I just wanna share in terms of this transactional relationship, that’s a different way of saying something that I had a conversation with, actually, a classmate of mine back when I was a student. And she was talking about how, she first introduced this concept to me. She said, at work, men are friendly and women are friends. And I was like, oh. And that’s a good thing and a bad thing, ’cause we should be friends. We should be thinking long term. Yeah. But also we shouldn’t be taking things so per, when we’re friends, we’re taking things personal. Men aren’t taking things personally. It is. And that fits beautifully, I think, with your transaction points. So I just wanted to highlight that. SL: Yeah, that’s actually a great point. That’s a great point. AW: Yeah, I love it too. It has so many implications, and if you don’t know what it means, if you haven’t thought about it that way, maybe it’s less relevant for you. But people right away, I find go, oh, and then suddenly you’ll see it everywhere. and the whole thing about women putting their head down and doing the work, and then not being recognized or compensated for it because they’re not speaking for their work. There’s this beautiful quote. You must speak for your work. Your work doesn’t speak for itself. And furthermore, if you’re a leader, it’s not just about you doing the work; it’s about getting the work done, which means you can delegate. SL: Yeah. Two things I’d like to add to what you said is one, think about networking, not just networking with other women, but networking with men, and so I belong to a host of women’s groups, but I think that, look, most of the people on boards are men. So if I wanna get a corporate board seat, I gotta be one of the names that comes up when the men in the group say, okay, who do we know? ’cause we have a, we need an audit chair. And the other thing that I would say is that I think that we often think of relationships as being transactional because we are notaking the time to invest in people, in, in other words that it’s not just, and, I guess the thing is, or invest in ourselves and I’ll step back and make this point. Women in terms of feeling it’s transactional or it’s manipulative. That’s the word that I was looking for. So it’s transactional when you deal with someone else, but if you don’t let your work speak for itself and you’re speaking for it, you’re being manipulative. And what I say to people. It’s only manipulative if you’re not doing the work. You know what I mean? We resent the people who would try to get ahead on their smile alone. They’re charming, they manage up, and then they’re not really doing anything. They’re sleeping in their cubicle, or they’re talking on the phone, or whatever. But if you are doing the work, then it’s not, it’s not manipulative. And so you should. not feel like, oh, I gotta let my work speak for itself, because if you’re actually doing the work, take pride in speaking about it. And so those are the two things that you said that kind of made me think about you need to network with men and women. And two, speaking up for your work is not a bad thing. You’re not being manipulative. And when you’re actually doing the work, AW: I heard a man quoted on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and he said. When you’re more junior in your career? I actually, this first part of it I added because I believe when you’re more junior in your career, there are people looking over your shoulder to see that you’re doing the work, and then you get promoted once you hit mid-career. This is, this was his point. If you don’t speak for your work, you might as well have not done it. Ooh, drop the mic. SL: That’s a drop the mic drop. Yes. Because nobody knows. Absolutely. Nobody knows. That’s a great point. AW: Yeah. I love that one. So it’s inspiring. Why Visibility is the New Superpower Let’s go back to the visibility point, though. You were talking about how it’s about relationships, and it’s also about visibility. So do you have any other hacks for how, how do you personally, or how do you coach the folks that are part of Schmooze to boost their invisibility? It boosts their visibility, whether it be online again or in person. SL: So I guess I learned along the way that visibility is a relationship hack. It’s a networking hack. It’s a networking multiplier. And so that’s a way that technology has made networking easier. And what I would say to people is, you need to be visible. Post on LinkedIn, and I’m gonna do a whole class on what to post on LinkedIn and tips for posting, and what to say, and all of that kind of stuff. But when you do that, you attract a network to you. So people who I don’t know will click and follow me. Click and ask to connect with me. And I don’t even need to reach out because you know my posting. And if you’re not posting, maybe you send professional updates to people who you know. So it’s just email. So instead of, oh, I’m not comfortable posting on LinkedIn, but I have 50 people that I work with or used to work with, that I’m just gonna send ’em an email, B, C, everybody. And hey, just wanted to let you know what I was up to. And that helps you attract a network because maybe they will say, Oh, that’s interesting. Let me let Sally know what you’re doing these days. The other thing is you help people remember you. And so somebody who had, I posted something and he had a better comment than my post was, he said, networking is about being remembered when it counts. So it’s one thing to have all of these contacts and connections on LinkedIn, but if something comes up that you would be interested in, but that person who’s in your network, but they don’t even remember you, then that’s a problem. So visibility is one thing that LinkedIn and email has made easier. It’s easier for you to be seen and be remembered. I am gonna, do a class. I was actually, we were saying before we started recording that, before I was a banker, I was a writer. So, LinkedIn, writing for LinkedIn, and writing for my newsletters comes a little bit easier for me. But there’s certainly tips I’ve learned along the way that can help you be visible. And like I said, people whine about too much Zoom, but one, it’s how I met you. Yeah. It enabled me to connect with people all around the country and the world. Yeah. I just interviewed two women who have a company called Power Suit. They’re based in New Zealand. I’m publishing that interview on a Friday, and they talked about networking with the women in their group. The kinds of things that they may be struggling with, et cetera. So the ability to do coffee on Zoom would have changed my life. When I was working from home, it just wasn’t available. But, and so now I won’t say people don’t have any excuse, but because as people are still, especially women, press for time, et cetera, but you do have many more tools than you had 10 years ago. AW: It’s not that there’s no excuse, but maybe there’s less excuse. So, back to your point, I love this. I wanna underscore this point about being remembered at the right moment when it counts. This goes back to something that you and I have talked about in the past, right? Which is establishing and reinforcing your brand. So, Shelly, you have expertise in networking now, and you said in the automotive industry, in the financial and banking industries. So, how on LinkedIn, if someone comes up with this list of five things that they wanna make sure people know about them, do you have any tips of what to share on LinkedIn? SL: Yeah, so what I would say is it depends on your goal. So I don’t post a lot about corporate boards, unless it’s networking your way into a corporate board. But I don’t post a lot on being on corporate boards or that kind of stuff, ’cause right now I won’t say I’m not looking for a board seat. If one drops in my lap, that’d be great, but I what I would suggest is pick a lane. Like you can’t be known for five or six different things. You are known for communications, and then you expand out from that. I’m known for networking and so people lane, that helps you make your posts consistent and people will remember you. Like people always say to me, oh, we need somebody to teach on networking. And I have to say, let me step back and say I am not a thought leader or an expert on networking. I have learned from people like you, I’ve learned from the almost a hundred women I’ve interviewed for my schmooze newsletter, and I’ve detected some patterns and said, okay, this makes sense. This is what works. And so I approach LinkedIn. You know what, let me tap into the experts, ’cause I’m not an expert at this. And so that’s how I pro, approached it. And now I’m starting like curiosity was something multiple women, when I interviewed them, they mentioned it. Curiosity. Oh. I said, why is this person take you under their wing? And you, they became your sponsor. Oh, I was curious about what was going on in the company and how we were making money, and this pivot we were gonna do. So after seeing curiosity pop up various places. I was like, okay, that’s a relationship, that’s a networking hack. Particularly internal. So what I would say is I am, I’m not a thought leader on networking, but there’s certain themes that I have learned and that I have distilled from my conversations with women who were much better at it than I was. And those are the kinds of things that I want to share with other women. AW: So, Shelly, I think you are describing something that I actually just shared, in a bootcamp that a couple hours ago I was teaching in a bootcamp on LinkedIn, and I asked everyone in the bootcamp to rate themselves on a score of zero to 10 on their LinkedIn profile and then also on their activity on LinkedIn. And they were all way below five, like zero outta 10, three outta 10, whatever. And most of ’em said they avoid it. They don’t really know what to say. And your point here is that the thought leadership doesn’t have to come from you. You can share your interest, expertise, and passion in something by sharing other people’s perspectives, right? So I said the first thing I want you to do is go to the home page on LinkedIn, start scrolling through your feed. Find an article or a post that’s interesting, and then repost it with comments. Not just repost it, and right repost it with a comment that’s I absolutely endorse this, and I would add this one other point, or I absolutely endorse this, particularly this one thing. And then you are implicitly sharing your expertise. So, Shelly, with those 100 women who you’ve interviewed, you are sharing your expertise through them. I think it’s a brilliant strategy SL: And that’s a great point. I. Didn’t. That’s how Schmooze started. I hadn’t done the networking, didn’t know how to do it, so I started interviewing women, and so I gathered things. It also was a great way to increase my network, ’cause the women I interviewed were oh, okay. and so now many of them, in my network, so to speak. And yeah, I launched mine. From, I won’t say a place of weakness, but I guess a place of curiosity. I didn’t do this well, and so here are some women who have done it well. Here are the themes that I’ve found. And so that’s how Schmooze started is just a LinkedIn newsletter. But absolutely, I would pick a lan,e and I think targeting it to networking or whatever works for you was one of the keys. if I’m just introducing, or I’m just interviewing, managing women who’ve made it, so to speak. They could be talking about anything, sponsor, mentors, anything. But if you boil it down to one thing, and now I’m known for networking. Now, some things coming out of that, or networking to get a board role. And then, one of our popular classes was being an advisor to a startup, which is a way to expand your network. So there are things that come off of that. But what I would say to people, similar to you, scroll through, see what people are talking about, even if you don’t have an expertise, like I’m not a thought leader, I don’t think. Now I’m starting to see themes. So I’m like, okay, lemme put this out there. Visibility networking hack. Let me put this out there. And so I picked a lane, and I just started posting what other women were saying about it, about that lane, which was networking. And that really resonated with people. And I’m not. There’s a lot about women in management going on out here, but I picked Elaine and then was very consistent about posting on that. As you said, even if it was the thoughts of other people, because it was like, wow, she did it right. I didn’t let me share what she did. AW: Yeah. Shelly, you have convictions, you have opinions, you do have thoughts on strategic networking that would definitely qualify you as being a thought leader. I truly think as soon as you start teaching something, and this is actually another hack, right? As soon as you start teaching something, you are demonstrating leadership in that area. And this is something that I sometimes coach, especially women who are struggling with demonstrating leadership, right? They’re, they’ve been told, you’re ready for the promotion, you just need to demonstrate leadership. And they’re like, how do I do that? How do I do that? And I said, one thing is find something that you can coach and mentor, and teach people about, and then you’ll be seen as a leader. And I think that’s what’s, that’s what you’re doing. I admire what you’re doing so much Shelly. How to Take Action Today Before we get into the three rapid-fire questions I wanna ask you this, maybe perhaps overwhelming question, which is. If someone who’s listening here is ready to level up their networking strategy this year, or in the short term, what is the first thing, or one of the most important thing,s that you would tell them to do starting today? SL: Okay. So I think the most important thing is schedule a time to do it. Don’t expect that it’s gonna happen, like just, organically. So maybe 4:00 PM on Friday when you’re starting to wind down and look forward to the weekend, or maybe on a Sunday afternoon where the kids are doing something else, or you are on the sideline of your child’s soccer game and you’re chatting with the other parents, you can steal a minute and do a few things, connect with a few people. So, schedule a time to do it. Step some small goals. So we just recently, that’s why recently started a schmooze accountability group where people can meet and say, okay, these are three things I wanna get done this week. So set out some very achievable small goals every week that you can meet. And a couple other things I wanna make sure to mention, weak ties. I think it’s LinkedIn and Harvard did research on where most people find jobs, and they find them through people they don’t know as well. They don’t find them through close ties. I’m not gonna find them through my friend Sharon, who I went to business school with ad we are really close because we have the same network, but it’s people that they don’t know well. So I would start, if I’m gonna set aside the time and start, do some small goals, reach out to those weak ties, say every week, three people, somebody I worked with 10 years ago, who I haven’t talked to in a while, I’m just gonna ping them. Hey, thought of you. That kind of thing. Thinking of you, it’s only transactional when you’re not keeping in touch with people. Another thing you may wanna do is send a professional update and then schedule a coffee catch-up. Hey, just wanted to let you know this is what I’m up to now. Let’s grab a Zoom coffee and catch up. And then I would also say go to at least one in-person event per month. If you can . Read Andrea’s article about how to nail your self-introduction, and people tell me, read that first because that will equip you for going to a meetup. But it doesn’t have to be in your industry or in your functional area. It doesn’t have to be the National Association of Accountants and your accountant or it doesn’t have to be people in AI and you’re in AI. I often get invited to things about women and wealth. And it’s like I did the Wall Street thing. I’m not interested, but I go anywhere. Go anyway. Because in addition to strategy, being a part of networking, serendipity is as well. When you meet people, you meet their network. In addition to that introducing people to other people in your network is really helpful, so you can help other people. So I’m going to something, somebody just invited me to something, women in their money, or something like that. And so I’m gonna go because I don’t know who I’m gonna meet. So it may not fit into my strategy, but I may, there may be serendipity, like I may stumble across somebody and happens to me all the time, who like, oh, didn’t know you were gonna be here. Or, oh, even though you do that, I don’t do that. But you know what, this is how we could work together. So strategy and serendipity. And can I just say one thing? So, just to recap, schedule a time to do it. Set some small goals. Don’t forget about weak ties. It’s only transactional if you’re not, keeping in touch with people. It feels less transactional if you are not reaching out to ’em once every 10 years. So send some thinking of you, thought of you, LinkedIn messages or e-mails, maybe a professional update, and then go to one in-person event per month. Can I say one other thing before we go to our rapid-fire questions? Yes. Yes. Follow up. One of our most popular Schmooze courses is the Fortune is in the follow-up. After you meet someone, LinkedIn or we introduce each other to each other on LinkedIn and you had a coffee chat or you met ’em in person, do a, oh, it was such so great to meet you, 24 or 48 hours after then Comment on their posts, re-share their posts like you said, oh, so and so said this. I thought it was so insightful. Let me re-share it with some comments. And then we recently had a session with Susan McPherson, who wrote the book, The Lost Art of Connecting. And she talked about approaching it. And this also takes it out of the realm of being transactional or being like a bad person or manipulative person. The whole thing is, how can I help? Even if the person isn’t active on LinkedIn, you can forward articles, information about conferences. It doesn’t have to be work-related. If you and small talk is helpful because you’re not connecting with a title, you’re connecting with a person. So you know, if they’ve said they’re from Chicago, send ’em something on the White Sox. If they said they’re planning a trip to New Orleans, I’m from New Orleans, you can send ’em an org article on the 10 best restaurants in New Orleans. So your follow-up doesn’t have to be work-related. One huge follow-up hack is introducing people to in your network to each other. So in addition to saying, how can I help? Saying to them, would it be helpful if I introduce you to so and and one point that Susan makes in her book is that you make people feel seen. It’s obvious if you introduce people to each other, you notice them, you notice, made a note of what was important to them, and you try to be helpful so they feel seen. And that has really been helpful to me in terms of following up, introducing people in your network to each other. So even though I don’t need anything from you, I don’t, we are not even doing the same thing, but I know somebody who is doing the same thing at you as you, let me introduce you, and that’s where the serendipity comes in. And also the follow-up. AW: I love it. You know what you made me think when you were saying that Shelly is in the same way that if you don’t talk about your work, you might as well have not have done it. If you don’t follow up with someone after you make a new connection, you might as well have not met them. SL: Oh my goodness. That is amazing. Yes, absolutely. I learned more sitting on you. Yeah, that those three insights are worth the price of that mission. It is those, you said a couple of things that resonated with me. Fabulous. Absolutely. Rapid Fire Questions AW: Shelly, back at you. I got, I’m gonna say this again, reading your posts on LinkedIn, always make me smile and you make me think. You do make me think, right? So, thank you, and let’s move on to the five rapid-fire questions. So the first one, I already know the first part of the answer because you already said it, but maybe not the second part. The question is, are you an extrovert or an introvert? And how does that affect your communication? SL: I’m definitely an introvert, as I said, and I’m shy, which is different from being an introvert. People always say that to me. I’m my best one-on-one, like in a podcast. I’m best when I’m speaking to thousands of people, ’cause it’s not, I’m at my most self-conscious when I am talking to a small group, like 10 people. But I definitely am an introvert. An introvert, an extrovert is more about how you, recharge yourself. And I recharge myself by being alone. And that has had a huge impact on my networking. I have to be much more conscious. But, somebody said this to me. One of the women I interviewed for Schmooze she said, introverts are not introverted in their area of expertise. And so I’m less of an introvert now than I was when I worked on Wall Street because I’m all into schmooze and I love what I’m talking about, and I love what I’m doing, which is why I don’t come across as an introvert now. And I probably did on Wall Street ’cause I was much, I wasn’t in my zone, and now I’m in my zone. AW: Oh yes. That’s a great way of putting it. I can see you’re in your zone. Okay, second question. What are your communication pet peeves, things that really annoy you? SL: You know what? I don’t think I have one. I don’t think I have one. I was a communications grad on a major undergrad, and I am a voracious reader. Yeah, I don’t think I have a communications pet peeve. I can’t think of one. AW: So you’re the second person recently that I’ve interviewed that said that, and I have to say, I admire the fact that you don’t get annoyed. SL: Yeah, I really don’t. I’ll read somebody’s LinkedIn post and I’ve said, oh, it would’ve been more effective if she did this, and this. But it doesn’t annoy me. and again, I think it comes from being in my zone. ’cause now I’m open to pretty much anything. I’m like, this is interesting. That’s interesting. I’m curious about that. So I don’t really, the only thing I think that bothers me is the lack of communication. So, my husband is never on LinkedIn, and I’m like, dude, he’s getting ready to retire. I’m like, if you want to do something different, you gotta put yourself out there. And my pet peeve would probably only be the lack of communication. Like my husband’s not on any social media at all. And I’m like, if you are trying to start a new chapter in your life, pick up your LinkedIn messages. You know what I mean? And I think that. is more of oh, frustration to me than, some stumbling in communication. AW: Okay. third and last rapid fire question, is there a podcast or a book that you find yourself recommending to other people lately? SL: Yeah, so a couple, and now that I have been on yours, I will be recommending this ’cause I know you’re a communication expert, which so many people need. There’s a book called F*** Being Humble, and she came and talked to the Schmooze community. It’s Stefanie Sword Williams, and it’s about self-promotion and how self-promotion is not a dirty word. Another one is The Lost Art of Connecting, and that’s Susan McPherson. She did a, also did a Schmooze session, probably a few weeks ago. So those two, one of the ones that I like and it has to do, more about building a business, is falling in love with the problem, not the solution. So in other words. And it can relate to helping people. It’s about, you know what, let me see what they need. If you approach networking from, how can I help you? Would it be helpful if I connected you to this? You’re falling in love with the person’s problem and offering them a solution. And so that book was more about building a business, but I absolutely loved it. And I go back to it over and over again with my business. Am I falling in love with my solution rather than is this solution helpful to people who are members of Schmooze? AW: Okay. I’m gonna put links to those books in the show notes. I’m gonna ask you one last question, Shelly. Is there anything, any suggestions or advice you wanna leave with the talk about, talk listeners related to? I guess succeeding in their networking. SL: I would just say, even though I’m shy. Social media has made, look, even an introvert can hit click, and so the introverts among us, social media is a gift because you really don’t have to be out there at 10 events a month. You really just have to focus on being visible on LinkedIn. Now, it’s very helpful if you’re out there visible in person as well, but even I can hit click. And so that’s one of the reasons that one of the things that’s helped me to get into my zone. And so what I would say to people is just get out there, and if I can do it, and in addition to be shy and being shy and introvert, I’m also a little bit socially awkward. I would rather have my nose buried in a book somewhere than to be doing anything. That’s my a book in the beach is like my ultimate, that’s how I recharge myself. But if I can get out here and do it and learn to enjoy it, I think other people can as well. I’m about as far, I’m not totally on the introvert spectrum, but I’m certainly like on the introvert, introverted, more introverted than extroverted, and even introverts can do this. And I guess one last thing. If somebody commented on one of my posts, if you’re not doing this, you’re gambling with your career. You gotta, you have to, you can’t just put your head down and work if you’re not doing this. There is going to come a point, like it came with me, where I needed a network and I didn’t have one. I got laid off four times on Wall Street. The first three times people found me, there was no LinkedIn. They called people who knew me, and they sought me out and made me job offers the fourth time after working from home for eight years. My phone did not ring. And so you wanna get on this before you need it. You wanna dig the well before you need the water. And so not only can introverts do it, and I think the, a large, the majority of the world identifies as being an introvert, whether that’s true or not, but you have to do it because if you don’t do it, there’s gonna come a time when you’re gonna need that network. This world is changing so rapidly and so fast. The people who work in the federal government who thought they had a job for life turns out they didn’t have a job for life. It’s really critical, and you can get a lot of joy out. It don’t think of it as building contacts. Think of it as relationships. And so not only will you enjoy meeting other people, but build that network before you need it ‘cause at some point, if you don’t need it, your kid don’t need it, your spouse will need it. Do it. AW: Wonderful advice. Shelly, I wanna say thank you. It was so enjoyable to hang out with you here and to have this conversation one-on-one. I hope we can do it again. Thank you. SL: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Post-Interview Recap AW: Isn’t Shelly fantastic? I encourage you to follow Shelly on LinkedIn if you’re not following her already. And now I’m gonna share three key learnings that I wanna reinforce for you. 1. Pick A Lane and Be Visible First, pick a lane. And be visible. Shelly’s suggestion is that you decide on your niche, the thing that you want to be known for, then stay in your lane. This is about consistency and then visibility. So get out there to live events, write articles, give presentations, and online share your insights on social media. If you’re not comfortable creating your own thought leadership, then you can repost others with your comments. So that’s the first point. Pick a lane and be visible. 2. The Difference Between How Men and Women Network The second point that I wanna reinforce is the difference between men and women that Shelly outlined in terms of how they network. She mentioned three things. Men have no issue with being transactional. Meanwhile, many women are focused on creating relationships and friendships. Of course, relationships and friendships are good, but sometimes we need to be reminded that it’s okay to be transactional. Shelly highlighted how women often assume that their work speaks for itself. As we said, this can be dangerous. Oftentimes, if you don’t speak for your work, you might as well have not done it. The third point about gender differences is that, as Shelly says. All roads lead to mom. This can make networking even more challenging. I hope this one is changing. So these gender differences in networking are the second thing that I wanted to reinforce with you. 3. The Fortune is in the Follow-up The third point is that the fortune is in the follow-up. Shelly highlighted a few times how important it is to close the loop with new contacts and also to stay fresh in the minds of your existing network. This relates back to the point about visibility. She talked about using small and big events. As a catalyst to follow up with your network, meeting new people. Connect on LinkedIn and close the loop. Read a great article. Share it with your comments. Interviewed for a podcast or an article. Share this with your network. That’s it for the three key learnings. One, pick a lane and be visible. Two gender differences in networking, and three, the fortune is in the follow-up. Got it. Again, I encourage you to connect with Shelly on LinkedIn. As I mentioned, Shelly and her work with Schmooze. Make LinkedIn a better place. And while you’re there, connect with me too. Thanks for listening and talk soon. The post The #1 Networking Mistake Smart Professionals Make—and How to Fix It with Shelly Lombard (ep.192) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

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BODY LANGUAGE, a Matter of Survival – with Expert Mark Bowden (ep.191) 57:56

20 days ago57:56

57:56

What is your body saying when you’re not speaking, and how could it be holding you back? In this episode, world-renowned body language expert Mark Bowden explains how nonverbal signals impact trust, credibility, and executive presence. Discover how our brains instinctively scan for safety cues, and why understanding body language is critical for anyone who leads, presents, or communicates under pressure. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ CONNECT WITH MARK BOWDEN Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarkBowden1 Virtual Presentation Training: https://truthplane.mykajabi.com/store https://truthplane.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MarkBowden1 TRANSCRIPTION “What instantly comes to your mind when you see me cross my arms?” Andrea Wojnicki – Talk About Talk: I’ve been told that’s a sign of defensiveness, but I’m not sure that’s true. Mark Bowden: Yeah? Well, good. You know, I’d start by checking who told you that. AW: I think it’s just common knowledge, right? MB: Common knowledge. Yeah, stupid. You know, I actually stopped trying to count all the reasons why people cross their arms after I hit 30. It just got boring. There are many, many reasons. Meet Mark Bowden AW: Mark Bowden is a world-renowned body language expert, and he’s been on my radar for a while. When we finally connected for this interview, we discovered that we live and work near each other. What a coincidence! We both share a passion for helping others communicate more effectively. But I have to say: Mark blew my mind. This conversation took twists and turns I didn’t see coming. So buckle up. You’re about to learn a ton about body language, perception, credibility, and so much more. Welcome to the Talk About Talk Podcast! In this episode, you’ll hear my conversation with body language expert, keynote speaker, and bestselling author Mark Bowden. You’ll learn the one key thing you need to focus on to instantly improve your body language, and your communication overall. You’ll also gain insight into how our motivations, including our primal survival instincts, shape our perceptions of others, especially when it comes to interpreting body language. And finally, we’ll bust a few body language myths that you’ve probably accepted as truth…until now. If you’re a returning listener, welcome back. I’m so glad you’re here. And if you’re new to Talk About Talk, welcome! Please subscribe to the podcast on your platform of choice (Apple, Spotify, or YouTube), where you can actually see me and Mark in action. Subscribing ensures you never miss an episode and that you receive ongoing communication coaching from me every two weeks. We cover topics like: Overcoming imposter syndrome Giving powerful presentations Establishing executive presence Building your personal brand And yes, body language. You can also find free learning resources, coaching services, and more on the Talk About Talk website: talkabouttalk.com . A Quick Roadmap First, I’ll introduce Mark, then we’ll dive into our interview. Afterward, I’ll summarize with three key learnings that I hope you’ll take away. You don’t need to take notes. Just keep doing whatever you’re doing: walking, driving, lounging on the couch. I’ve got you covered. And of course, you can always reference the show notes in your podcast app for more details. About Mark Bowden Mark Bowden is a globally recognized authority on body language. He’s been named the No. 1 Body Language Professional in the world multiple times by Global Gurus. His unique GesturePlane™ system of nonverbal communication empowers audiences to use body language to stand out, build trust, and gain credibility. Mark is the founder of TRUTHPLANE®, a communication training company that serves major organizations including Zoom, Shopify, Real Madrid, Toyota, the U.S. Army, and NATO. He’s also worked with G7 prime ministers and business leaders worldwide. He’s a bestselling author, a popular instructor in Canada’s top-ranked EMBA program at the Kellogg-Schulich School of Business, and the current President of the National Communication Coach Association of Canada. You might’ve seen Mark on the Dr. Phil Show, CNN, CBS, or Global News, or watched his TEDx talk, “The Importance of Being In-Authentic,” which has reached tens of millions of viewers. He’s also a co-host of the YouTube hit The Behavior Panel , which has garnered more than 75 million views. Thank you so much for being here today, Mark, to talk with me, and the Talk About Talk listeners, about body language. MB: It’s great to be here. So, what are your thoughts? What are your questions or observations? AW: Let’s start with the big picture. I coach senior executives on all things communication. So how, and why, does body language fit into the broader context of communication and executive presence? MB: Easy. I judge you. You judge me. We all judge each other. That’s it. Now, how do we do that? Well, we could come up with all kinds of explanations that aren’t really true. But the reality is, we form (and continue to form) judgments based mostly on how people behave in front of us. What their face is doing. What their body is doing. What their hands are doing. How they’re dressed. The environment they’re in. We judge partly by vocal tone, but we barely judge each other on what’s actually said. In fact, we often just make up what we think someone said based on how they behaved. So if you change, or more importantly, choose, your behaviors, you stand a much better chance of shaping how someone judges you. That influences how they interpret what you’ve said and even what they imagine you said. AW: So the transcript doesn’t really matter? MB: Right. Here’s the interesting thing. I could say something with very positive content, and if you transcribed it, it would read positively. But if I use body language that communicates negativity, that’s what people will walk away with. AW: Mm-hmm. MB: I’ll ask people, “What images came to mind when I said that?” And they’ll often report negative associations, even though my words were positive. That’s because they weren’t truly listening. Their brains were inventing meaning based on how I looked and behaved. And that narrative, the one their brains created, completely takes over. AW: Right. MB: They go back to their teams and say, “We came up with such a great message!” but the audience didn’t take that message away. Instead, people are telling each other a whole different story. And that story, based on body language, spreads. If I use body language effectively, I can control the narrative in people’s minds and influence how they communicate that message to others. AW: I’m watching you now, Mark. You’re so effectively reinforcing your words with your gestures: your facial expressions, your arms, your hands. And I’m suddenly very aware of my own body language. My clients say the same thing. As soon as we talk about body language, especially when they’re on stage or leading a meeting, it’s like, “Where do I look? What do I do with my hands?” So what should executives prioritize when it comes to body language and being perceived as credible leaders? MB: Just one thing. AW: Mm-hmm? MB: Open-palm gestures at navel height. AW: The truth plane. MB: Exactly. People often ask, “What else?” But until you master that one thing, especially under stress, don’t worry about anything else. That one behavior has incredible power when it comes to building trust and credibility. AW: Okay. MB: If you’re speaking in front of a group (whether it’s 10 people or 10,000) and you ask me what single behavior gives you the most bang for your buck, it’s open-palm gestures at navel height. Once you’ve nailed that, everything else, like eye contact, will start to fall into place. When you’re under pressure and still use open-palm gestures at navel height, you create what I call a “cascade effect.” It triggers certain behaviors in your audience, and those behaviors influence the rest of the room. AW: Right. From mirroring and everything else. I often tell my clients that showing open palms signals you’re not holding a spear, rock, knife, or gun. It communicates safety. But why specifically at navel height? MB: Great question. You’re right: Open palms universally signal no tools, no weapons. That message transcends culture. You and I may come from different backgrounds, but our brains understand that visual cue the same way. But it’s not just the hands. The navel area represents the body’s center of gravity. It reveals your true intention. People say, “Watch their feet.” No, watch where their center of gravity is going. If the torso doesn’t move, the feet don’t matter. This area here (your stomach, your navel) is incredibly vulnerable. We haven’t evolved to have ribs protecting it all the way down. Why? Because our ancestors needed to be able to duck, run, and twist quickly to survive. If we had a rigid ribcage extending all the way down, our agility would be compromised. AW: Right. MB: So think back to when we were ground-dwelling mammals. When there was a threat, we’d hit the ground and protect our belly. That was our survival instinct. But now, as upright hominids walking the plains of Africa, we’ve gained visibility (we can see threats from far away) but we’ve also exposed our most vulnerable area. AW: Because we’re standing up now. MB: Exactly. Standing upright offers a tactical advantage: you can spot predators or allies from miles away. But the downside is that your vital organs are now exposed. So when I show you my open palms at navel height, I’m not just saying “no weapons.” I’m signaling vulnerability, exposing the soft tissue that could lead to death if damaged. AW: So you’re communicating: “I’m not a threat. I trust you.” MB: Yes. And in doing that, I reduce perceived risk. And in a leadership context, especially when there’s risk outside the room, you want to be seen as the least risky person inside the room. AW: Right. Beautiful. MB: I use words, metaphors, and imagery to communicate that the risk is out there—not in here, not with me. I want people to think, “Wow, this is a safe space.” That’s why open-palm gestures at navel height work so well for leaders. AW: When I coach executives, whether in workshops or one-on-one, many say they feel overwhelmed by body language. They’ve heard that 68% (or whatever the number is) of communication is nonverbal. So they start to panic: “Where do I look? What do I do with my face? My hands?” That’s why I created a simple three-point scan: Posture: Be expansive Hands: Open palms Eyes: Make intentional eye contact Now I’ll say “Open palms at navel height.” What do you think about that framework? MB: It’s great. You’re simplifying a complex system. Human communication is overwhelming. There are so many signals flying around. Your clients are trying to manage their own behavior while analyzing others. The brain starts to panic. Oxygen leaves the thinking part of the brain, and they fall back into instinct: fight or flight. That’s why I try to get clients down to just one behavior. When they’re under pressure, dealing with a big presentation or unexpected scrutiny, they can’t manage everything. So I say, “Just do the one thing that will create a cascade effect.” Forget what you’re feeling. I don’t care if you’re scared or confident. It’s not about you, it’s about the audience. We’re trying to change their minds. That’s the hardest thing in the world to do. So I tell clients: open-palm gestures at navel height. They’ll ask, “Should I make eye contact?” Don’t worry, it will fall into place. This moment is extraordinary. You’re in an extraordinary situation. Ordinary behaviors, what feels natural or “authentic,” won’t cut it. Authenticity is about survival. It’s designed to keep you where you are, safe and small. But you’re not trying to be small, you’re leading. You need extraordinary behaviors for an extraordinary moment. And yes, it will feel odd. Do it anyway. Do it on purpose. AW: Got it. So how does this change in a virtual environment? Say I’m doing a podcast, a TV interview, or a Zoom call. Should I still be holding my hands up and showing my palms? What should we be thinking about with the face, the framing, and the impressions we’re giving? MB: Great question. The biggest thing to consider here is context. Let’s imagine we were doing this interview live, in person. We’d have to travel to meet. That’s time and money. We’d have to find a venue. That’s even more risk, logistics, insurance, and a physical audience. There’s a reason insurers require waivers for live events, it’s risky. Now compare that to this. What’s the risk assessment here? AW: Pretty low. I can delete parts if needed. MB: Exactly. This is a cheap signal. In animal communication, this is what we call a “cheap signal.” It didn’t cost much. So my value, and your value, just dropped in your audience’s eyes. If you met me in person, you’d think, “Wow, Mark’s amazing!” Why? Because you would’ve invested time and energy. Your brain would say, “This must be valuable, why else would I have spent all this effort?” So here in this low-cost environment, I need to raise the perceived value. I do that by making this conversation feel more alive. More animated. I need to give your brain the sense of social risk, like we’re breathing the same air, even though we’re not. AW: That reminds me of something a vocal coach told me. She said that online communication dampens everything. So we need to be more intentional, more dynamic with our voice: vary the pace, pitch, tone, and volume. It’s all about overcoming that dampening effect. MB: Exactly. I’m doing the same visually. I’m maximizing the video. I’ve got a great mic here, a Neumann TLM 103, so I can get up close and whisper if I want, and it picks up that intimacy. That creates proximity. But humans are visual. Some people claim they’re more auditory or tactile, but look at how much brainpower is dedicated to vision. Evolution figured out that sight is our best survival tool. So most of our attention goes to what people are doing, not how they sound. Now, the sound part of the brain doesn’t like to make stuff up. Unlike vision, where your brain fills in the blanks, hearing is more binary. That’s why you’ll crash your car if you talk on a phone while driving. The low audio quality forces your brain to work harder on decoding sound, stealing resources from vision. Your peripheral vision narrows, and you don’t see danger coming. AW: Public service announcement! Stay off your phones while driving, people. MB: Exactly. You literally won’t see it coming. So when I’m on a video call or a podcast, I’m really trying to animate the frame. I’ve got 30 frames per second. If I’m not using them, I may as well send a still image. But I’m not doing that. I’m sending a moving image, one that wakes up your brain. I’ll often break the frame slightly to get your attention. You’ll notice I use baton gestures, too. These gestures match the rhythm of my speech. They help you not only hear the cadence, but also see it. That helps the Broca’s area of your brain (where speech processing happens) get more confident that it’s predicting me correctly. Because really, you don’t hear what I’m saying; you predict it. Then based on whether your prediction matches, you feel like, “Oh, I understand Mark!” AW: Sounds a lot like AI…making predictions. MB: Exactly. Our brains aren’t knowledge machines. They’re best-guess machines. All the knowledge you think you have? It’s just a series of guesses that turned out to be right. But the moment those guesses stop working, your brain says, “I don’t get it.” First, it’ll assume the world is wrong, or that other people are wrong. If that doesn’t hold, the brain gets discouraged and says, “I don’t understand the universe anymore.” That’s because it’s not working from knowledge, it’s operating from predictions. AW: So when we’re trying to make a strong impression, we need to understand that people are constantly making judgments, and updating them. They’re looking for cues that either reinforce or contradict their initial impression. MB: Let me tweak that a bit. We’re not constantly judging. We only update our judgments when something new happens, when there’s a pattern disruption. Our brains are pattern recognition machines. They spot patterns, and they like consistency. But when that pattern gets disrupted, the brain wakes up and re-evaluates. If the new pattern is subtle or consistent, the brain keeps its judgment. But when it meets the “min spec” (the minimum specification needed to change its mind) it does. It flips. So, when you’re trying to change a first impression, the key is understanding what that minimum trigger is. What’s the hair-trigger that shifts their perception? AW: Got it. MB: Too often, people think, “If I want a big reaction, I need to do something big.” But that’s not sustainable. You’ll burn out. Instead, figure out which small action nudges the domino. You don’t even have to pull the trigger, just touch it, and let the audience do the rest. That’s how you communicate effectively: cheap, fast, and with maximum impact. AW: I imagine that applies to a lot of leadership communication, whether it’s implementing a new strategy or speaking to shareholders. MB: Absolutely. Same principle applies in politics, too. Candidates are constantly trying to shift perceptions: of themselves, their policies, or their opponents. AW: Right. And you’ve analyzed a lot of political candidates’ body language on TV. I’m curious: If there are certain tropes or myths out there about body language or just outdated tips that you’re just sick and tired of hearing about. MB: This isn’t a pet peeve, but it’s a classic example: crossed arms. AW: Yes! I was going to ask about that. MB: Right? What comes to mind when you see me cross my arms? AW: I’ve always heard that it’s a sign of defensiveness. But I’m not totally convinced that’s true. MB: Good. First off: Who told you that? AW: I think it’s just… common knowledge. MB: Common knowledge. Yeah. Stupid. I’ve stopped counting the reasons why someone might cross their arms. I hit 30 and gave up. There are so many. Now, why do people automatically assume crossed arms mean someone’s “closed off”? Why make that judgment? AW: Maybe because you leaned back while doing it? Like, “I’m done with this conversation.” MB: That’s one possibility. But I leaned back here just so you could clearly see the movement. Also, when I cross my arms, you can’t see my palms, there’s less visible information. And when we have insufficient data, we default to the negative. That’s why open palm gestures work so well. They give your audience enough information to make a safe, positive assumption. Crossed arms do the opposite. So when I cross my arms, your brain reassesses. It goes: “I don’t know what that means. It’s a big enough shift to warrant re-evaluation, but I don’t have enough info.” So, instinctively, the brain defaults to negative: “Mark is bored, angry, or defiant.” But maybe I’m just thinking. Or I’m cold. Or I’m trying to reduce neural load to help with decision-making. AW: Right. That makes sense. MB: Here’s the point: Even as a body language expert, I’m telling you, we are all terrible at reading body language instinctively. We get it wrong constantly. AW: Says the expert! MB: It’s true. But we default to negative interpretations for survival. Our instincts don’t care about accuracy. They care about safety…right now. So if something is ambiguous, the brain says, “Prepare for something bad.” AW: So we’re in survival mode. And ambiguity makes us defensive or cautious. MB: Exactly. We’ll evaluate someone negatively before we ever evaluate them positively. The only way around that? Critical thinking. But that takes time. And in the moment, time is a luxury we don’t always have. AW: You can’t pause a conversation to analyze every gesture. MB: Right. Unless you have a very fast, practiced system and you’re constantly checking for your own safety in the process. Communicating Safety Through Body Language AW: In executive presence coaching, we focus on thriving. But maybe part of the message is acknowledging that your audience is often in survival mode. MB: Exactly. And the simplest way to help them feel safe? Provide sufficient data. AW: What do you mean? MB: Let’s say I’m your boss and I send an email: “See me in my office at 4:30.” That’s it. AW: Yikes. MB: Why? Because there’s no context. No information. Your brain fills the gap, and it fills it with negativity. You assume the worst. But what if I was calling you in to promote you? The more information you provide, the better people behave. Their judgments are more accurate, and they’re less likely to spiral into fear or doubt. AW: I heard a lot of that during the pandemic. Leaders were told to over-communicate. MB: Absolutely. When fear is already present, less information won’t calm people down. You need more clarity, more transparency. Combine that with aligned nonverbal cues (open palms, eye contact) and you reinforce the message of safety. Mark’s Hot Takes on Body Language AW: Before we wrap up with our rapid-fire questions, what’s your hot take on body language? MB: Here’s one: The idea that you should mirror other people’s body language to get them to like you. That’s not quite right. AW: Oh? MB: We naturally mirror anyway. It’s part of how we develop empathy and theory of mind. But when you do it on purpose, you might mirror behaviors that aren’t useful. If someone crosses their arms and you do the same? Now you’re both closed off. You lean back, they lean back, you spiral downward. Instead, only mirror the behaviors you want to see more of. AW: Got it. MB: A better approach? Positively affirm the behaviors you want to reinforce. Here’s another take: All body language is either a response to power or a display of power . AW: Interesting. MB: For example, gravity is power. Throughout this interview, I’ve been showing my buoyancy against gravity. Now watch: I slump. That’s a different response to power. Now I lift again. Different message. Every movement you make is about power. Recognizing this helps you decode behavior more effectively. AW: There’s a beautiful tie-in to survival here. Those with power are more likely to survive, and influence others’ survival. Who We Follow, and Why MB: We mirror the strongest, clearest signal in the room, not necessarily the smartest or best. Just the most followable. AW: So true. MB: We also follow the person who controls the most valuable resource, whatever that may be in your environment. That’s why symbols and rituals matter: badges, behavior patterns, language. AW: And if you’re unsure of the hierarchy? MB: Just ask. Don’t guess. Say, “What’s most valuable to you here?” Then ask, “How would I know who controls that?” People will tell you: Our brains love answering hierarchical, evaluative questions. It’s hardwired. Wrap-Up & Rapid-Fire Questions AW: So helpful. I coach people who want to thrive, but many of these insights come down to survival. Understanding that helps us lead more effectively. Okay. Ready for rapid-fire? MB: Let’s go. AW: Introvert or extrovert? MB: Ambivert. Most of us are. It’s situational, not fixed. Put someone in a different environment, you’ll see different behaviors. AW: Love it. Question two: communication pet peeves? MB: Honestly, none. In my line of work, being annoyed by communication would be unbearable. People don’t know what they don’t know. That’s why I’m here. But ask me about food? Pet peeves galore! Nuts in chocolate? Salt in chocolate? Unacceptable. And don’t get me started on putting raspberries on crème brûlée. That should be illegal. AW: (Laughing) Okay, noted. Final question: Any podcasts or books you recommend lately? MB: Yes: The Rest is Politics . If you like politics, it’s thoughtful and offers fresh perspectives. Also The Rest is History . Great storytelling, global context. AW: Amazing! I’ll link both in the show notes. AW: Mark, thank you so much. I learned a ton, and I had fun. MB: My pleasure. Always a pleasure. Thank you. 🎧 Post-Interview Recap Well, that was a fascinating conversation, wasn’t it? I didn’t expect we’d end up discussing our evolutionary path from ground-dwelling mammals to upright hominids on the African plains, but I’m so glad we did. That’s why I love bringing expert guests on the podcast. We get to learn together. Now, let me reinforce the three key takeaways from my conversation with Mark Bowden: 1. Open Palm Gestures at Navel Height Mark strongly emphasized this single technique. If you want to appear credible, trustworthy, and influential, use open palm gestures at navel height. This is your center of gravity. It’s also a vulnerable area. By exposing it, you signal trust and reduce perceived risk. 2. We’re Wired for Risk and Survival We instinctively scan our environment for threats, and we default to negative interpretations when information is missing. As communicators, and especially as leaders, we must recognize this and over-communicate clarity and safety, both verbally and nonverbally. 3. Body Language Myths Debunked First, crossed arms don’t always mean defensiveness. They can indicate thoughtfulness, comfort, or even that you’re cold. Second, don’t mirror others’ body language indiscriminately. Only mirror behaviors that you want to reinforce. Otherwise, you risk reinforcing negativity or detachment. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating or review on your podcast app, and don’t forget to hit subscribe so you can continue improving your communication skills with Talk About Talk. Thanks again to Mark Bowden. And thank YOU for listening. Talk soon! The post BODY LANGUAGE, a Matter of Survival – with Expert Mark Bowden (ep.191) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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New Strategies to Overcome IMPOSTER SYNDROME with Kim Meninger (ep.190)

5 weeks ago

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Feeling like a fraud? You’re not alone. In this episode, Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and Kim Meninger explore the roots of imposter syndrome and share actionable strategies to move through it with courage, clarity, and impact. Learn how to lead more inclusive meetings, build authentic confidence, and reframe self-promotion as a meaningful contribution. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ CONNECT WITH KIM Website: www.KimMeninger.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/KimMeninger Instagram: Instagram.com/kim.meninger Podcast: The Impostor Syndrome Files TEDx: How to Bring Your Diverse Voice to the Workplace TRANSCRIPTION Self-promotion, when approached strategically, is a service…to others and to ourselves. Nobody is hired just to fill headcount; they’re brought on because of their unique combination of skills, strengths, and capabilities. If you don’t share what you know and what you can do, it becomes harder for others to leverage your strengths. That creates inefficiencies and redundancies. Thinking of self-promotion as an act of service allows us to reframe what might otherwise feel selfish or boastful. Instead of asking, “How can I tell everyone how great I am?” consider asking, “How can I help?” Meet my new friend, Kim Meninger . Kim is an expert on imposter syndrome. In this episode, you’re going to hear our conversation (yes, conversation, not interview) about this powerful and often misunderstood topic. We take turns asking questions, building on each other’s ideas, and sharing practical strategies. You’ll learn new mindsets and actionable tactics to help you combat imposter syndrome and communicate with confidence. These are tools you can start using right away. Ready? Welcome to Ep.190 of the Talk About Talk Podcast Yes, we’re getting close to 200 episodes, and you know there’s going to be a party! If you’re not already subscribed, please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you’re listening. You can also watch full episodes on YouTube. In case we haven’t met, I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki , but please, call me Andrea. I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I serve as your executive communication coach. Through private coaching, workshops, and keynotes, I help ambitious executives master formal presentations, establish executive presence, build personal brands, and yes, overcome imposter syndrome. If you want to stay up to date with my latest tools and coaching insights, go to TalkAboutTalk.com and subscribe to my newsletter. Introducing Kim Meninger Andrea Wojnicki (AW) : Today, we’re tackling imposter syndrome with Kim Meninger , a leadership coach, TEDx speaker, and host of the Impostor Syndrome Files podcast. Kim’s mission is to make it easier to be human at work. She brings a wealth of experience, including leadership roles at EMC and Monster, and she holds an MBA and a Professional Certified Coach credential. Kim is passionate about helping professionals boost their confidence, collaborate effectively, and show up authentically at work. Let’s Talk Imposter Syndrome AW : Kim, thank you for being here to talk with me and the Talk About Talk listeners about imposter syndrome. Kim Meninger (KM) : Thank you for having me! I’m really excited for this conversation. AW : Me too. Let’s dive in. First, tell me about your perspective on imposter syndrome. KM : Imposter syndrome, for me, is rooted in anxiety. It’s that constant fear that someone will discover you’re not good enough. While it’s not a clinical diagnosis, it’s very real. It keeps us playing small, avoiding risks, and staying quiet. Recognizing that fear is the first step in managing it. AW : Absolutely. And research shows this affects almost everyone, not just women, not just junior professionals, and not just those who appear to lack confidence. In fact, feeling imposter syndrome can be reframed as something positive. If it’s holding you back (say, from raising your hand in a meeting) it will only get worse unless you address it. Tactics to Overcome Imposter Syndrome AW : Here are three of my go-to tactics for managing imposter syndrome: Reframe the adrenaline When I feel that spark of nervous energy, I reframe it as excitement. Energy I can use to shine. Breathe, especially the exhale I focus on slowing my exhale. It signals to my brain that I’m safe, which calms anxiety. Use distanced self-talk Based on research by Dr. Ethan Kross in his book Chatter , I speak to myself in the second person: “Andrea, you’ve got this.” It’s incredibly effective. KM : Those are powerful. I especially love the focus on breathing. It’s a simple way to ground yourself. I also encourage clients to: Speak slowly : It keeps thoughts and speech in sync and projects confidence. Do scary things regularly : Perfectionists often avoid risk. Stretch your comfort zone consistently. Keep an accomplishments journal : Write down three things you did well each day. It rewires your brain to notice strengths and successes. AW : That ties beautifully into personal branding. Owning and articulating your strengths. Framing Self-Promotion as a Service AW : Let’s talk about self-promotion. Many people fear sounding arrogant. But there’s a sweet spot between paralyzing anxiety and overconfidence. I recommend: Adopting a growth mindset : “I know what I know, and I’m keen to learn more.” This keeps you grounded and curious. Using the phrase “people tell me” : Instead of saying “I’m great at this,” say, “People tell me I’m great at this.” It sounds credible and authentic. KM : Exactly. I also frame self-promotion as a service . If you don’t share what you’re good at, others can’t benefit from your expertise. Start by: Updating your manager regularly : Share what you’re working on and what skills you’re using. Teaching others what you know : Sharing knowledge is self-promotion that helps the team. Shaping your brand : Focus on what you want to be known for. Not just what you’ve done in the past. Leadership & Imposter Syndrome AW : For leaders: how can you support team members dealing with imposter syndrome? KM : Assume your team members have it. Most do. Structure meetings to include: Before : Send an agenda and pre-read materials. During : Use diverse participation methods: go-arounds, raised hands, written input. After : Debrief and solicit additional input. AW : Yes! And I always recommend leaders track the ratio (how much airtime each person gets). Extroverts should self-monitor, and leaders should create space for quieter voices. This ensures balanced contributions. Final Thoughts on Imposter Syndrome KM : Remember: imposter syndrome is normal. It peaks during transitions, when we’re out of our comfort zones. Don’t let it stop you. Confidence follows action. Rapid Fire Q&A AW : Kim, are you an introvert or extrovert? KM : Extrovert. I thrive in unscripted situations but have to watch that I don’t wing it too much. AW : What’s your communication pet peeve? KM : Passive-aggressive comments. I prefer directness and clarity. AW : Favorite book or podcast lately? KM : Your Brain at Work by Dr. David Rock. It’s practical and neuroscience-based. It’s great for understanding behavior and communication. Andrea’s Top 3 Takeaways from Kim Take risks regularly Imposter syndrome = fear. Daily risks (personal and professional) build confidence. Manage meetings effectively Use the before-during-after framework to ensure all voices are heard. Frame self-promotion as a service Share your strengths to help others. Teaching what you know is an act of generosity. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone who might benefit. Thank you for listening, and as always, talk soon! The post New Strategies to Overcome IMPOSTER SYNDROME with Kim Meninger (ep.190) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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Gender Bias and Communication in the Workplace: 6 GLASS WALLS with Dr. Amy Diehl (ep. 189) 50:21

7 weeks ago50:21

50:21

You’ve heard of the glass ceiling, but what about the glass walls? Dr. Andrea Wojnicki speaks with Dr. Amy Diehl, co-author of Glass Walls, about six subtle yet powerful gender bias barriers still limiting women at work. Learn how these biases show up in communication in the workplace and what individuals and leaders can do to recognize and dismantle them. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ CONNECT WITH DR. AMY DIEHL Dr. Diehl’s website & speaking engagement enquiries: https://amy-diehl.com GLASS WALLS book: https://amy-diehl.com/glass-walls-shattering-the-six-gender-bias-barriers-still-holding-women-back-at-work/ Gender Bias Scale for Women Leaders: https://amy-diehl.com/gender-bias-scale/ TRANSCRIPTION “Female hostility. I always get the question. Sometimes people say that the women in the workplace are worse than the men. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, but I will say that when women don’t support other women, it hurts us more. We expect solidarity from our female colleagues.” That was Dr. Amy Diehl, co-author of the book Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work . In the next 45 minutes, we’re going beyond the glass ceiling and glass cliffs. You’re going to learn what those six glass walls are, how they manifest at work, and what we can do about them. Especially in the context of communication, we’ll explore the power of labeling these barriers and talking about them. We all witness these glass walls at work. Whether you’re a woman directly affected, an ally observing them, or a leader with the power to influence change, this episode is for you. Let’s be clear: this isn’t about complaining. This is about using real research to identify, label, and discuss gender bias. Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast. If you’re a returning listener, welcome back. If you’re new, let me introduce myself. I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at Talk About Talk. You can learn more about me at talkabouttalk.com. While you’re there, I encourage you to sign up for my email newsletter. Between this podcast and the newsletter, you’ll get valuable communication coaching. I help leaders improve their communication: presentation skills, executive presence, precision, and personal branding. All of these skills are hard enough without the additional challenge of gender bias. Recently I read Glass Walls by Dr. Amy Diehl and Dr. Leanne Dzubinski. From a communication perspective, I saw insights that I knew would resonate with you. So I reached out to Amy, and here we are. Here’s how these 45 minutes will go: I’ll first introduce Dr. Diehl (Amy) and then we’ll jump into the interview. At the end, I’ll share three key takeaways. Yes, always three; the power of three. OK, let me introduce Amy. Amy Diehl, PhD, is an award-winning IT leader and Chief Information Officer at Wilson College in Pennsylvania. She’s also a gender equity researcher and co-author of Glass Walls . Her work has appeared in scholarly journals, Harvard Business Review , Fast Company , and Ms. Magazine . She’s a sought-after speaker, consultant, and expert witness. Her passion is gender equality in society and the workplace. You can find her at amy-diehl.com. Here we go! Thank you so much, Amy, for being here to talk about glass walls with me and the Talk About Talk listeners. Amy Diehl: Thanks so much for having me, Andrea. I’m excited for this conversation. Andrea Wojnicki: We’ve all heard about the glass ceiling and the glass cliff, but can you define what glass walls are and walk us through the six described in your book? AD: When my co-author Dr. Leanne Dzubinski and I wrote the book, we didn’t initially have the title. It came together after we finished the manuscript and realized what we were really talking about—barriers in every direction. Not just a ceiling above, but walls all around. Invisible, like glass, you often don’t notice them until you run into them. So the metaphor of glass walls made sense. These barriers are baked into workplace cultures. Our goal was to name them, make them visible, and start discussions about how to dismantle them. AW: It’s a perfect metaphor. Can you walk us through the six walls? AD: Absolutely. The first is male privilege : A dominant workplace culture that includes male gatekeeping, the boys’ club, and even the glass cliff, where women are set up in risky roles and then blamed when things go wrong. AW: And that first wall, male privilege, forms the foundation for the others, right? AD: Exactly. The other five barriers build on that base. AW: Before you go further, I want to encourage listeners to do a mental checklist as they hear about these barriers. Ask yourself: Have I experienced this? Have I observed this? AD: That’s great advice. For context, we developed a tool, the Gender Bias Scale for Women Leaders, while researching. It identifies the six barriers and is available on my website as a quick self-assessment. AW: Fantastic. I’ll include that link in the show notes. AD: The second wall is disproportionate constraints . Women are in the workplace, but with limitations, fewer choices, more scrutiny. From career paths to communication, women face muted voices and are held to unequal standards. Their appearance, tone, and behavior are under constant watch. The third is insufficient support : lack of mentorship, sponsorship, and access to informal networks. Women are often left out of spaces where decisions are made. One insight from my dissertation: the most confounding barrier for women was unsupportive leadership. Being hired, but not backed when challenges arise, is demoralizing. AW: That’s especially confusing. “You hired me. Why aren’t you supporting me?” AD: Exactly. They couldn’t make sense of that. The fourth wall is devaluation . Women’s contributions are diminished. Salary inequality is one example. Others include being interrupted, called pet names, or not addressed by their professional titles. And there’s office housework (taking on tasks like organizing lunch or cleaning the fridge) without recognition. AW: Linda Babcock’s work on “non-promotable tasks” comes to mind. AD: Yes. These tasks are necessary but should be shared. Better yet, hire admin staff to handle them. AW: Leaders must ensure tasks are equitably distributed. AD: Right. The fifth glass wall is hostility . Harassment, discrimination, and, yes, female hostility. People often ask whether women in the workplace are worse than men. I don’t know if that’s true, but when women don’t support other women, it hurts more. We expect solidarity from each other. When another woman blocks your opportunity, it feels more shocking. AW: Can you talk about the queen bee phenomenon and female-only versus mixed-gender dynamics? AD: Yes, and the sixth and final wall is acquiescence . After repeatedly hitting barriers, women may give up. They stay silent, limit aspirations, or leave entirely. Not because they’re incapable, but because the emotional toll is too high. AW: So we’re talking to women, allies, and leaders; people who can help create equitable, productive, happy workplaces. AD: Exactly. AW: Let’s shift to communication. One strength of your book is the vocabulary. You and Leanne coined many terms to describe these phenomena. AD: Yes. When we couldn’t find terms in the literature, we created them. For example, role incredulity : assuming a woman isn’t in charge. A director mistaken for an assistant. A physician assumed to be a nurse. AW: One of my clients is a global CEO, and people often assume she runs just the Canadian division. It’s a classic case. AD: Yes. It’s often unintentional, but impactful. That moment can change a person’s perception. Another term is credibility deficit : women’s statements aren’t believed unless confirmed by someone else. My co-author Leanne once had a man turn to her husband to verify what she said, even though she was the expert. AW: That example stuck with me. What about terms like mansplaining and he-peating? AD: Mansplaining: Explaining something to a woman in a condescending way. He-peating: A woman’s idea is ignored until a man repeats it and receives credit. If done intentionally, that’s called bro-propriating. AW: The intent matters. Sometimes it’s unintentional, but still harmful. AD: Right. One of the biggest issues is interrupting . Men’s voices are privileged. They’re taught it’s acceptable to dominate conversations. If you’re interrupted repeatedly, especially by peers, it undermines your credibility. AW: I coach women through this all the time. They need strategies, from jokes to private conversations, to enlisting allies. AD: Yes. Sometimes the most effective approach is pulling someone aside, assuming positive intent, and addressing the pattern. AW: Let’s talk about a story from a workshop participant. A senior OB-GYN received feedback that she was difficult. She believed female nurses were biased against her. AD: That’s the status-leveling burden . Women in higher roles often go above and beyond (baking cookies, being extra nice) to gain cooperation from other women. It’s about navigating the contradiction between gender and organizational hierarchies. AW: Leaders should be aware and provide training so teams understand these dynamics. AD: Yes. Raising awareness helps people recognize patterns and adjust their behavior. AW: You mentioned experiencing this personally. AD: Yes. I had to spend extra time connecting with a secretary who didn’t support me. In the end, what changed things was her retirement. I even sent male colleagues to ask for things because they’d be more successful. AW : It’s about recognizing the situation and working around it strategically. Let’s talk about flip it to test it . AD: A simple but powerful tool from sociologist Kristin Pressner. If you say, “Maria is too assertive,” flip it: “Would I say Mario is too assertive?” Probably not. It reveals gender bias in assumptions. AW: Great for self-checking and for leaders in hiring or evaluations. AD: Exactly. AW: What’s your take on Adam Grant’s article about women using “weak” language strategically? AD: His mistake was calling it weak. It’s not weak, it’s smart . Women are adapting to navigate male-normed environments. Maybe men should adopt these techniques, too. AW: Like imposter syndrome. Maybe men should question themselves more! AD: Yes. These strategies make women effective communicators. AW: Tell us about your next book, Excuses, Excuses . AD: It explores six myths about why women are never “just right” at work, excuses based on age, appearance, race, etc. The subtitle is The Six Myths Why Women Are Never Quite Right at Work and How We Can Shatter Them . Many of these judgments are contradictory: too quiet, too outspoken, too young, too old. It’s not about the woman. It’s about systemic bias. AW: Sounds like a powerful follow-up. AD: We aim to name these issues so they can be addressed. AW: Let’s end with three rapid-fire questions. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? AD: Introvert. I think before I speak, and I listen a lot. I believe introverts make great leaders. AW: What’s your communication pet peeve? AD: The expectation that women fluff up their emails with pleasantries. It’s time-consuming. With close colleagues, I skip it. But with others, I feel I have to include it so I’m not perceived as cold. AW: Should men do more of that, too? AD: Yes. It builds relationships and improves communication for everyone. AW: Final question. Any books or podcasts you’re recommending? AD: Yes— Powerfully Likable: A Women’s Guide to Effective Communication by Kate Mason. It offers practical tips without telling women to change who they are. It’s about authentic, effective strategies. AW: Thank you, Amy. Any final words for listeners? AD: Gender bias is solvable. It takes all of us working together. And if you’re experiencing bias, remember: it’s not about you. It’s a systemic issue. Don’t take it personally. Strategize and persist. AW: Thank you, Amy. I learned so much from our conversation. AD: Thank you for having me. AW: Most of my guests are doing good in the world, but Amy truly stands out. Her research and advocacy are making workplaces better. As promised, here are the three takeaways I want to reinforce: Vocabulary : Learn and use terms like glass walls, role incredulity, credibility deficit, housekeeping duties, non-promotable tasks, mansplaining, he-peating, and bro-propriating. Labeling helps make bias real, and solvable. Female hostility : It hurts more when it comes from other women. This isn’t about blaming. It’s about raising awareness and fostering solidarity. Intentionality : Bias is often unintentional, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Consider whether a private or public conversation is appropriate. Thank you again, Amy. And thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review the podcast. It helps others discover us. Talk soon! The post Gender Bias and Communication in the Workplace: 6 GLASS WALLS with Dr. Amy Diehl (ep. 189) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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How to Use AI to Improve Your COMMUNICATION (ep.188) 12:39

9 weeks ago12:39

12:39

Are you ready to go beyond the basics with AI? If you’re only using it for simple tasks, it’s time to level up. Andrea shares three powerful strategies that move past the fundamentals to elevate your communication, deepen your audience connection, and help you integrate AI seamlessly into your workflow. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ How to Use AI to Improve Your Communication Most of the executives I coach are already using AI in their day-to-day work. They’ve mastered the basics, but they know there’s more potential. If that sounds like you, you’re in the right place. Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast. I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (but please, call me Andrea). I’m an executive communication coach who helps leaders communicate with confidence and credibility. Through private coaching, workshops, keynotes, and this podcast, I empower professionals like you to level up your executive presence and personal brand. In this episode, I’m sharing three next-level strategies for using AI to supercharge your communication effectiveness. But first: let’s talk about how most of us are already using AI. 5 Basic Ways to Use AI to Improve Communication AI has become a behind-the-scenes partner in our daily workflows. If you’re using it this way, you’re not alone: Spellchecking and grammar correction Using AI as a thesaurus to find better or more precise words Brainstorming content , from blog posts to presentation titles Adjusting tone , such as making your writing sound more formal, supportive, clever, or empathetic Summarizing or shortening content to make it more concise These tools are powerful, but they’re just the beginning. 3 Next-Level AI Strategies to Boost Your Communication If you’re ready to go beyond spellcheck and tone tweaks, here are three powerful ways to use AI to improve your communication strategy: 1. Crafting Compelling Metaphors Metaphors are one of the most underused tools in business communication. They help clarify complex ideas and make your message memorable. 💡 Example: A friend of mine, Richard (a partner at a consulting firm) explains staffing requirements to clients using a metaphor: “Our team is like a tennis ball machine. If your team doesn’t have enough people to hit the balls back, the balls pile up on your side, and the engagement stalls.” How to Use AI for Metaphors: Ask AI: “Give me 10 metaphors to describe [concept].” Narrow it down to a few promising ideas, then refine with follow-up prompts. Test different tones (professional, humorous, or inspirational) to fit your audience. When used well, a metaphor can become the centerpiece of your pitch, deck, or keynote. 2. Creating Visuals with AI AI isn’t just for text. It can also generate or inspire visuals that elevate your communication. Here are some ways to use AI to create effective visuals: Upload a document and ask: “What visuals would best support this?” Ask AI to generate charts or graphs to illustrate data Request slide outlines or graphic design ideas for a presentation Use AI to generate illustrations or images or brief a designer with AI-generated direction 💡 Pro Tip: I used AI to create the cover art for this episode. Check it out at talkabouttalk.com on the podcast tab (link in the show notes!). 3. Getting Critical Feedback from AI Would you rather get constructive criticism from your audience, or from AI before you hit send? Use AI to anticipate issues with your communication by simulating tough critics: Prompts to Try: “What questions might my audience have after reading this?” “Why might my boss reject this?” “What parts of this proposal might frustrate a skeptical customer?” “If you were a disillusioned editor, how would you critique this article?” Asking AI to play devil’s advocate helps you spot blind spots and strengthen your message before it goes live. 3 Caveats to Keep in Mind When Using AI for Communication Before you go all-in, keep these best practices top of mind: Enhance, don’t outsource. AI is your assistant, not your voice. Start with your own ideas. Keep personal messages personal. Use your real voice in personal communication. Relationships deserve authenticity. Double-check everything. AI still hallucinates. Your credibility depends on accuracy. Recap: How to Use AI to Communicate More Effectively The Basics: Spellchecking Thesaurus use Brainstorming Tone adjustment Summarizing Next-Level Tactics: Crafting compelling metaphors Creating engaging visuals Getting constructive, critical feedback What About You? How are you using AI to enhance your communication? I’d love to hear your thoughts. Connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram , or comment on YouTube. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a colleague, and don’t forget to subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast for more communication tips. Thanks for listening. Talk soon! The post How to Use AI to Improve Your COMMUNICATION (ep.188) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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10 Bad Communication Habits That Undermine Your CREDIBILITY (ep. 187)

11 weeks ago

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Bad habits in your communication, like apologetic language, upspeak, and jargon overload, can undermine your credibility. Dr. Andrea Wojnicki shares fixes for 10 bad habits so you can start communicating with confidence and credibility. Get the free “Bad Habits” download : https://www. talkabouttalk.com/badhabits CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: http://talkabouttalk.com/ LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Do You Have Bad Communication Habits? Let’s be honest— we all do . Yes, even communication coaches like me. I’m not talking about quirks my teenage kids tease me about. I mean legitimate habits that undermine how we show up—especially as leaders. Recently, I caught myself overusing the word “right?” at the end of sentences. It was like I needed agreement from you, the listener. Once or twice per episode? Fine. But it got repetitive—and annoying. So I stopped. I also caught myself saying “you guys” instead of something more inclusive like “everyone.” Not great. The Perks of Hosting a Podcast One benefit of podcasting (and YouTube)? You get to review your own communication patterns. And let me tell you—it’s eye-opening. So, what are your bad communication habits? Bad communication habits can be distracting, annoying, and worst of all— they erode your credibility . That’s a big deal, especially if you’re an ambitious professional or executive (which I bet you are, since you’re here!). Episode 187: 10 Bad Communication Habits That Undermine Your Credibility (and What to Do Instead) Welcome to Talk About Talk . I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki—please, call me Andrea. I coach executives to communicate with confidence and credibility . At TalkAboutTalk.com , you’ll find info on 1:1 coaching, corporate workshops, a free communication skills newsletter, and more. Ready to level up your communication? Let’s dive in. Download the Free Checklist Follow along with this episode using the free downloadable checklist at talkabouttalk.com/badhabits . It lists all ten habits and what to do instead. Great for self-evaluation or as a conversation starter with colleagues or your boss. Bad Habit No. 1: Weak, Apologetic Language Phrases like “This might be a dumb idea…” or “Sorry, can I just…” diminish your authority before you’ve even started. Fix: Cut qualifiers like “maybe” or “I think.” Replace “sorry” (unless warranted) with confident framing like, “Here’s an idea to consider.” Use silence instead of hedging. Try reviewing transcripts of your meetings and searching for “sorry,” “just,” and “maybe.” Bad Habit No. 2: Upspeak That rising tone at the end of a sentence? It turns statements into questions and signals a lack of confidence . Fix: Practice “landing” your sentences. Use tools like a post-it with a question mark and an X through it. Deliver statements with conviction—no upward lilt. Bad Habit No. 3: Rambling (a.k.a. “Epic Storytelling”) Rambling dilutes your message and frustrates your audience. Senior leaders especially need to speak with precision. Fix: Start with a clear headline: “Here’s what I recommend.” Use structure: “Let me give you three reasons why…” Pause intentionally and stay focused. Bad Habit No. 4: Filler Words Overusing “um,” “like,” or “right?” distracts your audience. They stop listening to your message and focus on your delivery flaws . Fix: Watch yourself on video. Ask a trusted colleague to flag filler words. Practice intentional silence instead. Bad Habit No. 5: Lack of Eye Contact Avoiding eye contact can make you seem disengaged—or worse, untrustworthy. Fix: In person: hold eye contact for a few seconds at a time. On Zoom: look directly into the camera, especially when making key points. Bad Habit No. 6: Monotone Delivery A flat tone, even with smart content, loses the room. Fix: Vary tone, cadence, and volume. Emphasize key words. Think: how would you read a children’s book? Use dramatic pauses to draw attention. Bad Habit No. 7: Getting Interrupted Allowing interruptions can signal low authority—especially from peers or subordinates. Fix: Politely assert yourself: “I’d love to hear your thoughts—right after I finish mine.” Say it calmly and confidently. Bad Habit No. 8: Using Corporate Jargon Buzzwords like “value-added” or “scalable solutions” can confuse and alienate. Fix: Speak plainly. Test your language with someone outside your field. If they pause or ask for clarity, simplify. Bad Habit No. 9: Dodging Tough Questions When you deflect hard questions, you risk losing trust. Fix: Acknowledge the question: “That’s a great question.” Share what you know. Be honest about follow-ups if needed. Bad Habit No. 10: Confidence Without Warmth Confidence is key—but without warmth or a growth mindset, it can come off as arrogance. Fix: Use names, smile, and ask genuine questions. Admit where you’re still learning. Show curiosity and openness. Wrap-Up: Time for Self-Assessment That was a lot—but it’s worth it. Visit talkabouttalk.com/badhabits for your free checklist . Use it to evaluate your habits and prioritize your improvement. 📩 If you enjoyed this episode : Subscribe to Talk About Talk Leave a review—every rating helps! Share this episode with a friend or colleague who could use a communication tune-up For more communication tips, sign up for my bi-weekly newsletter or explore executive coaching options at TalkAboutTalk.com . Thanks for listening—Talk soon! The post 10 Bad Communication Habits That Undermine Your CREDIBILITY (ep. 187) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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Elevate Your ELEVATOR PITCH (ep. 186) 13:40

13 weeks ago13:40

13:40

Ready to improve your Elevator Pitch? Your elevator pitch is an asset that can optimize high-stakes conversations. Learn a dynamic 3-point framework that will help you confidently engage with critical stakeholders, ensuring you make a positive, memorable impact. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: http://talkabouttalk.com/ LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT How to Elevate Your Elevator Pitch: A 3-Step Framework for Authentic Communication “Can You Help Me With My Elevator Pitch?” Recently, one of my long-time executive communication coaching clients sent me an urgent message: “Can you help me with my elevator pitch?” He had a high-stakes meeting coming up and wanted that perfect, polished paragraph—something he could memorize and deliver on cue. My response? No. (Yes, you heard that right.) Of course, I helped him prepare for his meeting, and yes, he knocked it out of the park. But I didn’t give him a scripted elevator pitch. Instead, I coached him using a proven 3-step framework that works in any high-stakes conversation. And now, I’m sharing that framework with you. Welcome to the Talk About Talk Podcast, Episode 186: Elevate Your Elevator Pitch. (See what I did there?) In this episode, we’ll explore how to communicate effectively in high-pressure situations, whether you’re networking, pitching to an investor, or seizing a spontaneous opportunity to leave a lasting impression. Forget memorized scripts. I’ll show you how to elevate your elevator pitch using a customized, authentic approach that resonates every time. Why Traditional Elevator Pitches Fail If you’re reading this, chances are you’re: Unsure how to craft an elevator pitch Or, you have one—but it feels stale, robotic, or ineffective We’ve all been told that having an elevator pitch is essential. Whether you’re growing your business, pitching clients, or aiming for a promotion, that 30-second spiel is supposed to be your golden ticket. But a scripted elevator pitch often backfires. Here’s why: It Sounds Rehearsed People can tell when you’re on autopilot. A memorized pitch feels impersonal and insincere—especially to high-status individuals who hear these scripts all the time. It’s Not Customized A one-size-fits-all pitch ignores the context and the person you’re speaking to. Effective communication should always be tailored. So, instead of a stiff, rehearsed speech, I recommend a disciplined, authentic, and flexible framework . The 3-Step Framework to Elevate Your Elevator Pitch Whether you’re in a spontaneous hallway chat or a planned meeting, this framework will help you communicate with confidence and impact. 1. Make It Personal: Focus on Them Before you say anything about yourself, shift the spotlight to the other person. ✅ Ask about their recent projects ✅ Congratulate them on a success ✅ Show genuine curiosity For example: “I saw your team just launched an innovative campaign—congrats! What inspired it?” This approach builds connection and shows empathy. Pro Tip: It’s NOT all about you. 2. Be Enthusiastic: Let Your Energy Shine Positive energy is contagious. Research shows that enthusiasm leads to better outcomes across negotiations, sales, teaching—and yes, job interviews and networking. Smile. Use an upbeat tone. Let your body language reflect your excitement. Remember: Authentic enthusiasm can set you apart more than any polished script ever could. 3. Establish Your Professional Identity: Reinforce Your Value Here’s where you highlight your strengths and expertise—your personal brand . But don’t just list achievements. Frame your experience in a way that resonates with what the other person cares about . For example: “I recently led a project that improved customer retention by 25%. I know that’s a big focus for your team as well.” This shows credibility and relevance. Stop Memorizing. Start Connecting. To elevate your elevator pitch , ditch the robotic, self-serving monologue. Instead, remember: Make it personal: Start with them Be enthusiastic: Positive energy wins Establish your professional identity : Highlight your value in their context This is how you turn high-stakes conversations into genuine opportunities—whether you’re in a boardroom, at a networking event, or yes, even in an actual elevator. No scripts required. 🎧 Listen to the Full Episode For a deeper dive into each step, listen to Talk About Talk Episode 186. Being prepared for impromptu conversations with clients, investors, or senior leaders is critical for career growth. Next time you face one of these moments: Don’t default to a memorized pitch Focus on connection, enthusiasm, and relevance That’s how you communicate with confidence —and leave a lasting impression. ✨ If you found this helpful: Subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast Share this episode with colleagues or friends Connect with me on LinkedIn and tell me how YOU elevated your elevator pitch For more communication tips, sign up for my bi-weekly newsletter or explore executive coaching options at TalkAboutTalk.com . Thanks for listening—Talk soon! The post Elevate Your ELEVATOR PITCH (ep. 186) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

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How to Ace Your INTERVIEW (ep.185) 23:38

15 weeks ago23:38

23:38

Looking for guidance on how to ace your job interview? Andrea shares an interview preparation checklist, focused on your preparation before the interview, your communication during the interview, what to do after the interview, and how to answer specific Qs. You can download the free downloadable checklist at talkabouttalk.com/interview RESOURCES The “Ace Your Interview Checklist” free download: https://talkabouttalk.com/interview Talk About Talk podcast episodes focused on boosting your confidence: Ep.158 – 7 Ways to Boost Your Confidence & Your Credibility Ep.83 – Let’s Talk Imposter Syndrome Ep.169 – Communicate with Confidence – Mental Preparation CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Do you have any memorable interview stories? Any epic fails —either as the interviewer or the interviewee? I do. And while it wasn’t exactly a disaster, it still haunts me. This story takes place when I was finishing my doctorate and actively looking for a faculty position. I was in my early 30s, super keen, and well-prepared. Most of my first-round interviews were held back-to-back at a conference hotel—efficient, intense, and generally successful. I turned most of those interviews into second-round invitations. But not all of them. There was one interview that didn’t go well. In fact, it was a complete miss. And to this day, I still think about it. When the “H-bomb” backfires This interview was with a state school in the U.S. I walked into the room and was met by two middle-aged white men. As soon as they looked at me, they exchanged a glance… and then rolled their eyes. One of them said, “You probably wouldn’t accept a job here anyway. But why don’t you tell us about yourself and why you want to work here?” Yep— the H-bomb . That’s what we call it when the Harvard credential backfires. In hindsight, I should’ve stood up, thanked them for their time, and walked out. But I didn’t. I stayed. For the full 45 minutes. And let them grill me. It. Was. Torture. Have you ever wanted to walk out of an interview? Walking out of an interview is a bold move. And honestly, staying was probably the right call. What if those two professors later talked to faculty at another school and said I walked out mid-interview? Still, that moment sticks with me as my worst interview ever . And here’s the kicker—I hadn’t even opened my mouth, and they had already decided they didn’t like me. Even great interviews can be stressful Even when the interviewer wants to hire you, job interviews can be incredibly anxiety-inducing. That’s why, in this episode, we’re covering four key things to help you ace your next interview : How to prepare before the interview How to communicate during the interview What to do after the interview How to answer specific questions effectively Let’s dive in. Hi there! I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki , but please just call me Andrea. I coach ambitious executives—just like you—to communicate with confidence and credibility. If you’re new here, check out TalkAboutTalk.com to learn more about: 1-on-1 executive coaching Corporate communication workshops Our podcast archive And our popular bi-weekly newsletter Want to nail your job interview? Lately, I’ve had a lot of clients in career transition ask me for help with interview skills. Good news: Interviewing is all about communication. And that’s exactly my sweet spot. To succeed in your next job interview, you need to confidently and clearly communicate your true and best self to the interviewer. So I created something just for you: Download the “Ace Your Interview” Checklist Yes, it’s completely free. And yes, it covers everything we’re about to discuss. Press pause and print it now, or listen and come back to it later. Either way, go to: talkabouttalk.com/interview One more thing before we dive in: Confidence Before you focus on interview prep, there’s one other thing you need to manage: Your confidence. I won’t cover confidence in this episode, but don’t worry—I’ve got you. Check the show notes for links to other Talk About Talk episodes that focus on building confidence and managing nerves. How to prepare for a job interview: The four focus areas 1. Before the interview: Preparation is everything Start by researching the company, the role, and your interviewers if possible. Prepare examples that showcase your experience and align with the job description. Practice your self-introduction and key talking points. Bonus: Use the checklist I created to guide your prep. It’s all there. Download it now . 2. During the interview: Communicate strategically Your job in the interview is to communicate your value clearly and confidently . Be concise, positive, and focused. Use frameworks like STAR (Situation, Task, Action, Result) to structure your responses. And remember: Your personal brand matters. Every answer should reinforce who you are and what sets you apart. 3. After the interview: Follow up like a pro Always send a thank-you note—ideally within 24 hours. Reinforce your interest in the role, recap a highlight from your conversation, and reiterate how you can add value. A thoughtful follow-up can help you stand out and leave a lasting impression. 4. Answering specific interview questions Prepare for common questions like: “Tell me about yourself.” “What’s your greatest strength?” “Tell me about a time you failed.” “Why do you want to work here?” And don’t forget to prepare smart questions to ask the interviewer too. Curiosity signals engagement and critical thinking. Free resource: Ace your interview checklist Want to feel calm and confident before your next interview? Want a tool to help you stay on track during your prep? Grab the free downloadable checklist here: talkabouttalk.com/interview Use it to prep for your next big opportunity—whether it’s your dream job, a board seat, or an internal promotion. One last reminder: If you’re on the job market, download the ace your interview checklist at talkabouttalk.com/interview . If you found this episode helpful, please: Subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast Leave a review —I read every single one Share this episode with someone who’s interviewing Thanks for listening—and as always… Talk soon. The post How to Ace Your INTERVIEW (ep.185) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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#BeYourSelfOnPurpose – Be Your Self On Purpose and build a strong personal brand (ep.184) 28:15

17 weeks ago28:15

28:15

#BeYourSelfOnPurpose: Five words packed full of meaning. Andrea shares the power of developing your strong unique personal brand by doing two things: 1) being yourself, 2) on purpose. You’ll also learn three specific contexts when you can put this mantra into action. CONNECT WITH ANDREA Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Recently, I hosted a live virtual webinar on personal branding—and I have to say, it went really well. Now, my corporate workshops and webinars usually go great, but this one felt different. I was vibing , and I could tell by the audience’s reactions and questions that they were really getting something valuable out of it. After the webinar, I received a ton of positive feedback. One message stood out: a woman messaged me on LinkedIn almost immediately. She told me she takes her dry erase whiteboard very seriously—it’s where she puts her goals, meeting notes, follow-ups. After the session, she erased everything on it and wrote just five words: Be Your Self On Purpose . Then she sent me a photo. I was floored. A couple hours later, I posted the webinar video on LinkedIn, and a senior executive I deeply respect commented with a hashtag: #BeYourSelfOnPurpose . That’s when I knew—this concept really resonates. It’s clear that being your self on purpose is an idea that sticks. So, in this episode, we’re going to double down on those five powerful words: Be Your Self On Purpose . You’re going to learn what it means, why it matters, and how you can apply it to build a strong, unique personal brand. Welcome to Talk About Talk – Episode #184: Be Your Self On Purpose Hi there! I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please just call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at Talk About Talk, where I help ambitious executives communicate with confidence and clarity so they can succeed and reach their career goals. You can learn more about me and all the coaching and resources I offer—one-on-one coaching, small-group bootcamps, corporate workshops, this bi-weekly podcast, and my newsletter—at TalkAboutTalk.com . And if we’re not connected yet on LinkedIn, I’d love to change that. Let’s Talk Personal Branding Before we dive into what it means to Be Your Self On Purpose , I want to briefly revisit the roots of personal branding and share a few definitions. In 1997, when I was a brand manager at Kraft Foods, I received a physical copy of Fast Company magazine. The cover looked like a box of Tide laundry detergent—but instead of “Tide,” it said “You.” The headline: “The Brand Called You” by Tom Peters. This article blew my mind. Peters didn’t invent personal branding, but he brought it into the corporate mainstream. He suggested that everything we apply to marketing products and services—differentiation, target markets, brand values—can and should be applied to ourselves. Personal branding was born. Fast forward to my time teaching MBA students at Rotman. At the end of every branding course, I would dedicate a class to personal branding. Why? Because everything we learned about branding applies directly to you . Another powerful definition comes from Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon: “Your brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room.” That’s a great thought experiment. Ask yourself: what are your stakeholders—your clients, your boss, your team—saying about you when you’re not there? If their perception doesn’t align with how you want to be seen, that just means you’ve got some work to do. That’s what personal branding is for. Then, during a podcast interview with marketing legend Seth Godin, I asked him how he defines personal branding. His response? “Your brand is what people think you’re going to do next.” Another brain explosion moment. This forward-looking definition adds a sense of momentum. It’s not just about your past—it’s about what people expect from you next. Taking Control: You Have Agency What’s missing in both Bezos’ and Godin’s definitions is agency . Yes, your brand is what others perceive—but you have the power to shape that perception. So here’s my definition: Personal branding is about being your self on purpose. Instead of passively going with the flow in your career, it’s about stepping into your power and making intentional choices. It’s about owning your reputation, your professional identity—your brand. Be Your Self. On Purpose. Let’s break it down: Be Your Self This is about being your authentic , whole , and best self. Not a different version of yourself depending on the context, but a strategic filter of what parts of you you choose to share. You are always you —but you emphasize different aspects depending on the situation. On Purpose This is where strategy and discipline come in. You’re not just letting things happen—you are intentionally reinforcing the parts of your brand that align with your goals. You are being thoughtful about how you show up. The Wardrobe Metaphor Here’s a great metaphor I first heard from Ron Tite: Think of your brand like your wardrobe. All your clothes are authentically you. But you choose what to wear depending on the day—movie date, big meeting, networking event. The same is true for your personal brand. You are always you, but you decide what to highlight in each situation. That’s being your self—on purpose. Expansive & Focused This idea might feel messy—and that’s okay. Human beings are complex. You are being expansive by embracing your full identity, and focused by strategically choosing what parts of your brand to share. That balance is where the magic happens. Three Ways to Practice Being Yourself on Purpose 1. Your Self-Introduction This is your chance to communicate who you are, what you’ve done, and where you’re going. Use the present-past-future framework and be strategic about what you share. Don’t just rattle off your job title—own your narrative. 2. Comments in Meetings Whether you’re a CEO or a new hire, how you contribute in meetings matters. Try framing your input like this: “Based on my experience in ___” or “With my expertise in ___.” This reinforces your value and strengthens your brand. 3. The Stories You Tell How you tell your story—especially career transitions—can either strengthen or weaken your brand. Be intentional. Tell the truth, but do it in a way that highlights your leadership style, your strengths, and what sets you apart. Final Thoughts Write these five words down: Be Your Self On Purpose . Put them on a sticky note, on your whiteboard, at the top of your to-do list. Let them remind you to show up as your best, most authentic self—strategically, intentionally, and unapologetically. If you want more coaching on personal branding, head over to TalkAboutTalk.com . You’ll find my podcast archive, my newsletter, and information on coaching and bootcamps. Just search “personal branding” in the search bar. That’s it for episode #184. Now go out there—and Be Your Self On Purpose . Talk soon. The post #BeYourSelfOnPurpose – Be Your Self On Purpose and build a strong personal brand (ep.184) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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What’s Your ARCHETYPE? (ep.183) 21:09

19 weeks ago21:09

21:09

What’s your archetype? Knowing your archetype can help you control your narrative, provide you with focus, and boost your confidence. Take the Archetypes Quiz at www.talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz . Archetypes are shared, universal patterns that help us understand characters, stories, and even ourselves. 12 PROFESSIONAL IDENTITY ARCHETYPES CAREGIVER – maternal, comforting, trusted, generous CREATOR – artist, designer , maker, vibrant CITIZEN – girl/guy next door, hardworking, friendly, down-to-earth, loyal EXPLORER – adventurous, innovative, pioneer, investigator, trailblazer HERO – disciplined, inspiring, strong/brave, warrior, champion OPTIMIST – kind, simple, innocent, pure JESTER – humorous, comedic, entertainer, playful, light-hearted IMPASSIONED – focused on senses, relationships, inclusive, passionate, devoted MAGICIAN – transformer, dreamer, visionary, spiritual guide. REVOLUTIONARY – radically distinct, bold, rebel, unapologetic RULER – authoritative, influential , political, sophisticated, ambitious SAGE – learner, teacher, academic, analytical, wise. TRANSCRIPT T his might be one of the shortest and most impactful podcast episodes you’ve heard in a long time. I hope so! Of all the topics I coach people on and that I speak about, I’d say Personal Branding, and helping people articulate or narrate their unique brand makes the biggest impact. Typically I run my coaching clients through several exercises to help them identify their unique brand, including but not limited to: seeking input from others, taking personality tests, creating your personal Venn diagram, running through mental exercises, reviewing formal work feedback and evaluations, completing worksheets that I assign, and lots more. And of all these personal branding exercises, identifying their archetype is the one that they often tell me is the most helpful. So I thought I’d spend an episode coaching YOU on how to identify your unique professional identity archetype, and what to do with it to help you be your happiest and most successful self. Sound good? Welcome to talk about talk podcast episode 183: what’s my archetype. In case we haven’t met my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please just call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at talk about talk where I coach ambitious executives like you to communicate with confidence and establish credibility so they can achieve their career goals. The topics I cover are all focussed on communication, including things like overcoming imposter syndrome, becoming a great storyteller, listening like a leader, nailing your formal presentation, establishing executive presence, and establishing your unique personal brand. You can learn from me through private one on one coaching, corporate workshops and keynote speeches, the boot camps that I lead, the archive of this podcast, and through my email newsletter. If you go to talk about talk.com you can sign up for the newsletter there. It’s like getting free coaching from me every two weeks. While you’re there on the talkabouttalk.com website, I encourage you to take the archetypes quiz. That’s the topic of this weeks episode. I’m going to help you identify which of the 12 professional identity archetypes resonates most with you and what you can do with this insight. Just go to talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz. OK – By the end of this episode: You’ll understand the power of identifying your professional identity archetype and how you can use your archetype to accelerate your career trajectory. Here’s how this episode will go: First I’m going to define archetypes for you. Give you the archetypes 101 lecture. Don’t worry – it’s brief. Then, I’ll share a list of 12 professional identity archetypes. Your challenge is to identify which 1-2 of these archetypes resonate for you. I encourage you to do this both qualitatively – by listening to my descriptions and thinking about which 1-2 resonate with you. Then also by taking the archetypes quiz at talkabouttak.com/archetypesquiz. This quiz is kind of like a personality test. It will help you validate which archetype resonates for you. So Let’s start with this. What are archetypes ? Simply put: ARCHETYPES are UNIVERSAL PATTERNS. Got that? Universal patterns. Universal as in broadly understood – by many or most – as well as universal as in over time. Many archetype researchers highlight that archetypes, these universal patterns, have been around since stories were told. Think Athenian philosopher Plato, way back in 400 B.C. Think mythology. If you consider the etymology of the term archetype, there’s ἀρχή archḗ , which means “beginning or origin”, [4] as in the word archaic. And then there’s type or τύπος týpos , as in pattern or model. More recently, just 100 or so years ago, Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung talked about how archetypes relate to our collective unconscious. (An aside. Carl Jung also developed several other important psychological concepts such as the persona and such as extraversion and introversion . You know, at the end of every Talk About Talk podcast interview, when you hear me ask the guest expert “are you an introvert or an extravert?” Well, that’s Carl Jung too. Anyway, I digress. But hat tip to Carl Jung.) So Carl Jung is the scholar who established that archetypes are innate representations that universally exist in our minds. These archetypes, or universal patterns, typically come in the form of two things: characters and/or stories. And these universal patterns are commonly adopted by fiction writers, as a means to help us as readers or audiences members to make sense of the story. Many of the papers you’ll find about archetypes identify 12 common archetypes. So why should we identify our archetype? Based on my experience coaching thousands of executives, I can tell you that this can be a powerful exercise. First of all, people love being diagnosed. Who doesn’t love copleting a personality test, then reading the results and thinking, WOW. That’s me. To a T. We feel seen, recognized. That’s a good thing. But there’s more to this. Understanding your archetype can h elp you create your narrative- you can adopt the words and phrases associated with your archetype to describe your leadership style, your personality, your values. And you can do so knowing that this description, this archetype, will make sense to others. Based on all the research on archetypes, we know this is a universal pattern. It’s not that you’re walking up to people and explicitly declaring: “I am a Magician and a Sage!” But rather, you reference your strengths and passions in these terms/ So Archetypes can help you clarify your narrative. They can also provide you with focus and direction. It’s not that you won’t evolve or grow, but chances are the themes associated with your archetype will describe your strengths, perhaps things you could focus on and succeed. And last, people tell me that knowing their archetype provided them with a confidence boost! Now, let’s get into this. Which archetype resonates for you? We’re not all Heroes, are we? I know I’m certainly not a hero. But I do know which archetype resonates with me. Do you know yours? Before I read you the list, I want to share something important with you. For our purposes, I substituted several of the archetype labels to make them more relevant for this professional context. There are some words that, even if they accurately define us, are less suitable for our career context, I mean,.. Imagine being on a job interview and telling the interviewer that you are a “Lover.” Or “Innocent,” or even a “Rebel.” So I changed a few of the labels, without changing the main idea.: “Lover” became “Impassioned” “Innocent” became “Optimist” “Rebel” became “Revolutionary” The main theme for each of these remains the same. Just the labels changed, to make them more relevant for our professional, career context. OK – To make this easier for you, there’s a list in the shownotes that briefly describes each of these 12 archetypes. Whether youre watching on Youtube, or listening on Spotify or Apple or wherever, just click on the shownotes and you’ll see the list there. Now I’m going to briefly take you through 12 of the most common archetypes. And I have a challenge for you. Listen to the descriptions and think about the extent to which each archetype resonates. Are you ready? OK- here’s the list – in alphabetical order: Caregiver Citizen Creator Explorer Hero Impassioned Jester Magician Optimist Revolutionary Ruler Sage Im going to read that list again, this time with a brief summary of how you might show up at work if this archetype resonates for you. In your mind, for each of the 12, I encourage you to decide which of three categories it belongs. It could be: YES! That’s me. Or SORT OF – that describes me sometimes Or NO – that’s not me. I know those people, I respect those people, but that’s not me. SO YES, Sort of, Or No. Again, in alphabetical order: CAREGIVER – maternal, comforting, trusted, and generous. I’ve met plenty of physicians and consultants who are caregivers. Certainly, you do not need to be in a vocation where you are literally caring for people to be a caregiver archetype. But it’s true that sometimes our personality can draw us to a particular career. Ask yourself. Compared to others, are you a caregiver? Yes, sort of or no? next. CREATOR – think inventor, artist, designer inventive, unique, maker, and vibrant . If creativity and expression is your default, you might be a creator. Yes, sort of, or no. Are you a creator? CITIZEN – girl/guy next door, hardworking, friendly, down-to-earth, and loyal . Whenever I think of the citizen archetype, I always think of Michelle Obama. Think of the person that everyone wants on their team. Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no. EXPLORER – adventurous, innovative, pioneer, investigator, trailblazer, the adventurer . I remember a CEO I coached a few years ago who was definitely an explorer. In every one of his positions over the last 15 years he had pioneer ednew categories, or created new products. He was a trailblazer. What about you? Are you an explorer? Yes, sort of, or no. HERO – disciplined, inspiring, strong/brave, warrior, champion . Hero’s an interesting one. We’d all love to be called a hero, right? But there’s a specific definition here. Are you a warrior, making sacrifices on behalf of a cause? Think about people like Malala or Nelson Mandela. Are you a warrior too? A hero? Yes, sort of, or no. OPTIMIST – kind, simple, pure . You smile a lot. You bring positive energy to meetings and your optimism is contagious. Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no. JESTER – humorous, comedic, an entertainer, playful and light-hearted . I remember coaching one women who had just received a big promotion to chief of staff at her large global organization. When we were talking about archetypes, she said “Im probably a jester, but I hide that at work. It’s not appropriate.” “HANG ON A SEC!” I said. Didn’t you just get promoted? Doesn’t your booss know about your sense of humor? Of course you dongt tell inappropriate jokes. But having a sense of humour is a strength. You are the one who brings leveity to intenseor dire converstaions. You know what? She felt so relieved. I could tell by the look on her face. And awhile later I got an email from her, saying this had changed everyting for her. She was happier and more successful that she’d ever been, mostly because she was being herself, including being the Jesterr. So are you a jester? Yes, sort of, or no? IMPASSIONED – focused on sense, relationships, memories, and inclusivity. I’ve noticed in my coaching practice that several senior HR executives resonate with this archetype. It’s not surprising. What about you? Yes, sort of or no. MAGICIAN – transformer, dreamer, visionary, an inventor, or even a spiritual guide. Don’t let the word spiritual scare you away. You might be a magician if you are focussed on change and impact. Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no. REVOLUTIONARY – radically distinct, bold, revolutionary, and unapologetic . Whenever I think about this revolutionary archetype. I remember a CEO I coached a few years ago who told me that he purposely wore a black motorcycle jacket to work on his first day. He wanted to reinforce his reputation as a rebel. Are you a revolutionary? Yes, sort of, or no. RULER – authoritative, influential , political, connected, sophisticated, ambitious. I can think of a few friends who are incredibly successful and who are senior leaders who are rulers. I remember during Covid I was running online personal branding workshops with female executives all over the world. When we got to the ruler, archetype one woman raised her hand and said in her beautiful deep voice, I believe I am a ruler! We all laughed. Yes of course she’s a ruler, it’s amazing when you read a description and you know it’s you. SAGE – learner, teacher, academic, analytical and wise. I think I have been a Sage since I was a young kid. Whenerever we were playing “house” (like who’s the mom, who’s the dad, who’s the baby? Who’s the dog? ,I would say “I want to be the teacher.” What about you? Are you a sage? Yes, sort of, or no. That’s it! Just 12. Sure, its just 12, but I know it’s a lot. That’s why included the list for you in the shownotes. I mentioned that I’m a Sage. Actually, I’m a combination of Sage and Magician. So Sage as in the learner, the teacher, the academic. Yep. That’s me. Also known as a nerd. I’m also a Magician. . I hope to help you transform into a confident, exceptional communicator. My best day at work is when someone tells me that I helped them improve or transform. How you should feel when you’ve effectively identified your 1 or two archetypes : excited, satisfied,… Stories should come easy to illustrate you in your role as this archetype This is your happy place. Benefits of identifying your archetype Help you create your narrative- you can adopt the words and phrases associated with your archetype to describe your leadership style, your personality, your values. Provide you with focus and direction Boost your confidence! Last, I want to share three important things to keep in mind: There is no hierarchy of archetypes . No one archetype is better than another. The Hero is no better than the Optimist. And the Sage is no better than the Caregiver. The true power here, lies in identifying which 1-2 archetypes truly, deeply resonate with you and your true essence. Your purpose. Your default. Your essence. Your goal is to identify which 1 or 2 archetypes resonate for you. No more than two! I used to think identifying your one archetype was the goal. But witnessed for many clients the powerful identity that can come from the unique intersection of two archetypes (like for me, Magician and Sage). If you narrow it down to 3, then I challenge you to identify which one is primary and which two are secondary. In other words, three primary archetypes is too many. Your goal is to identify your top one or two archetypes. yes your archetype can change. I’ve had a few meaningful conversations about this. First with UofT professor Maja Djikic, whom I interviewed in episode 157. Then more recently with Harvard Professor Jerry Zaltman, who shared his concern with me of pigeon holing people. Yes, we evolve as humans. We have chapters or seasons in our lives, when particular archetypes might be more resonant. Your archetypes can change. Got that? So there is noo hierarchy of archetypes. Theyre all good. Your goal is to id 1 or 2 – not more than two archetypes that resonate for you. And yes, your archetype can change. I should mention 1 more thing. I touched on this briefly when I was describing the 12 archetypes. Sometimes, people with a particular archetype might be drawn to a particular vocation. Like say caregivers might be drawn to nursing. That’s an obvious example. But you get the idea. But don’t take this to mean you have to conform to succeed. In fact, being unique can be part of your strength. Some of the most successful people in a certain vocation are successful because of something that makes them stand out relative to their peers. And that’s the main point of this episode. Identifying your unique strength can make you more successful and more satisfied than ever. Identifying your archetype can help you get there. Take the quiz. It’s at TAT.com/archetypes quiz. Please email me and let me know which archetype resonates for you. And also what you thought about this podcast. I love hearing from you! You can connect with me through the TalkAboutTalk.com website, or you can connect with me on Linkedin and message me there. Thanks for listening. And TALK SOON! The post What’s Your ARCHETYPE? (ep.183) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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3 Ways To Control Your NARRATIVE & Steer Your Professional Identity (ep.182) 22:04

21 weeks ago22:04

22:04

Learn three ways to control your narrative and steer your professional identity. Andrea will teach you how to introduce yourself with purpose, reframe perceived weaknesses as strengths, and narrate your career transitions and your career journey. There are a million ways to tell the same story. Why not tell yours in a way that serves […] The post 3 Ways To Control Your NARRATIVE & Steer Your Professional Identity (ep.182) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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5 Ways to Kickstart Your Personal BRAND (ep.181) 47:41

23 weeks ago47:41

47:41

Are you keen to kickstart your Personal Brand? Not sure where to start? Andrea shares 5 ways to kickstart your personal brand, including helpful advice on how to introduce yourself, articulating your unique value proposition, establishing thought leadership, optimizing your digital footprint, and building a quality network. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ […] The post 5 Ways to Kickstart Your Personal BRAND (ep.181) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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Optimizing Your VOICE with Claire Fry (ep.180) 53:52

25 weeks ago53:52

53:52

Optimizing your voice means sounding like your best self – not someone else! Andrea talks with vocal coach and voice actor Claire Fry to understand why you should focus on your unique voiceprint—rather than imitating others—and how to support your voice through techniques like deep breathing and smiling. They also cover practical tips for enhancing […] The post Optimizing Your VOICE with Claire Fry (ep.180) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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The Portfolio Life and your PERSONAL BRAND with Christina Wallace (ep.179) 59:18

27 weeks ago59:18

59:18

“The Portfolio Life” – Have you ever considered your personal interests and activities to be a portfolio? A portfolio worth assessing and diversifying? In this interview with author Christina Wallace, you’ll learn about the four pillars of creating a portfolio life, how they might inform your personal brand, and three exercises to help you be […] The post The Portfolio Life and your PERSONAL BRAND with Christina Wallace (ep.179) appeared first on Talk About Talk .…

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Update Your RESUME & LINKEDIN with Martin Buckland (ep.178) 1:06:16

29 weeks ago1:06:16