The Action Arcade Strategy of Shannon Loftis

The Fourth Curtain

#Video Games #Lifestyle #Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin #Aaron Marroquin #Alexander Seropian #Videogame #Culture #Creativity #Games #Interviews #Esports #FPS #RPG #Halo #Bungie

15:16

Gen Z slang is rife with new words like "unalive," "skibidi" and "rizz." Where do these words come from — and how do they get popular so fast? Linguist Adam Aleksic explores how the forces of social media algorithms are reshaping the way people talk and view their very own identities. For a chance to give your own TED Talk, fill out the Idea Search Application: ted.com/ideasearch . Interested in learning more about upcoming TED events? Follow these links: TEDNext: ted.com/futureyou TEDSports: ted.com/sports TEDAI Vienna: ted.com/ai-vienna TEDAI San Francisco: ted.com/ai-sf Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.…

about a year ago 1:16:07

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For a second time we are graced with the presence of videogame legend Shannon Loftis! Veteran of running Flight Simulator and Age of Empires at Microsoft, she was instrumental in the acquisition of Rare for Xbox game Studios. Now an advisor to Duke University's videogame program she joins us to talk franchises, Animal Well and the great Profanisaurus!

Support the show

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Kimya Taheri
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

98 episodes

The Fourth Curtain

The Action Arcade Strategy of Shannon Loftis

The Fourth Curtain

published about a year ago

MP3•Episode home

Support the show

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Kimya Taheri
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

98 episodes

#Video Games #Lifestyle #Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin #Aaron Marroquin #Alexander Seropian #Videogame #Culture #Creativity #Games #Interviews #Esports #FPS #RPG #Halo #Bungie

All episodes

The Fourth Curtain

1
Fallout's Feargus Urquhart Stares into the Abyss 1:19:22

5 days ago1:19:22

1:19:22

Our guest is Feargus Urquhart, founder and CEO of Obsidian, the premier maker of videogame RPGs. Having mastered 27 second pizzas he moved to testing and production of huge titles like KOTOR, Baldur's Gate and Fallout. We discuss snatching victory from the jaws of defeat with Pillars of Eternity, and when a feature is real - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Founding Obsidian Entertainment: From Black Isle to New Beginnings Feargus shares how he and his former Black Isle colleagues launched Obsidian in 2003, determined to create deep RPG experiences despite industry headwinds. [00:05:00] The Fallout Series Legacy: Storytelling That Stands the Test of Time Feargus reflects on his work with Fallout and how its blend of player choice, dark humor, and moral complexity still influences RPG design today. [00:12:00] Navigating Publisher Deals: Lessons from the Early Obsidian Years Hear how Obsidian survived rocky publisher relationships, including near cancellations, and what the team learned about creative control and financial survival. [00:21:00] Making Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II Under Deadline Pressure Feargus explains how the team delivered KOTOR II in just 14 months—and the trade-offs required to ship under tight LucasArts deadlines. [00:31:00] From Pillars of Eternity to Deadfire: Reviving the Isometric RPG Discover how Kickstarter and a passionate fan base brought Pillars of Eternity to life, sparking a renaissance for classic-style RPGs. [00:43:00] The Microsoft Acquisition: Joining Xbox Game Studios Feargus discusses Obsidian’s 2018 acquisition by Microsoft, what it meant for studio stability, and how it opened doors for ambitious projects. [00:50:00] Creating The Outer Worlds: Satire, Choice, and Sci-Fi Exploration Learn how Obsidian blended sharp humor, branching narratives, and vibrant worlds to craft The Outer Worlds, a modern hit with old-school sensibilities. [01:03:00] Advice for Aspiring Game Developers: Build Skills and Networks Early Feargus offers guidance for breaking into the industry—emphasizing collaboration, flexibility, and learning from every project. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Making Myst a World with Rand and Robyn Miller 1:26:23

12 days ago1:26:23

1:26:23

Our guests are Rand and Robyn Miller, founders of Cyan (World) and creators of the smash game Myst. From humble beginnings in Hypercard kids' games, they made the 3D puzzle experience Myst which changed the world of adventure games. We discuss GRR Martin stories, line art to 3D and more - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] How Myst Was Made: The Birth of a Gaming Landmark Robyn and Rand Miller reflect on the early days of Cyan and how they created Myst —a genre-defining game that shaped the future of narrative and puzzle design. [00:07:00] Making Games on a Mac Plus: Myst’s Surprising Development Setup The brothers reveal how Myst was developed using off-the-shelf consumer hardware—proving that groundbreaking games can come from minimal setups. [00:14:00] The Myst Trailer That Changed Everything: A Publisher’s Big Bet Learn how a 90-second trailer helped convince publishers to take a chance on Myst , setting off a chain of events that would make it the best-selling PC game of the decade. [00:19:00] Myst’s Visual Style: Why Pre-Rendered Worlds Still Hold Up Robyn explains the creative reasons behind Myst 's iconic static imagery—and why it still resonates with players even in an era of real-time 3D. [00:26:00] How Riven Raised the Bar: Bigger Worlds, Bolder Vision Rand discusses the development of Riven , the technical leaps it required, and how it built on Myst to deliver a more expansive, immersive player experience. [00:40:00] Why the Myst Brothers Left the Game Industry—and What Brought Them Back After the height of Myst and Riven , Robyn and Rand took separate paths. They share what pulled them away from games—and what inspired their return decades later. [00:47:00] Remaking Riven in Real-Time 3D: Challenges and Ambitions Cyan is rebuilding Riven from the ground up. Hear how today’s tools and player expectations are reshaping one of gaming’s most beloved worlds. [01:04:00] Advice for Indie Game Creators: Start Small, Stay Honest Robyn and Rand offer hard-won advice to new game developers: why simplicity, focus, and authenticity are the keys to building memorable experiences. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
World of Warcraft's Seth Sivak Tips the Dealer 1:15:36

19 days ago1:15:36

1:15:36

Our guest this week is Seth Sivak, VP Development for World of Warcraft at Blizzard. From early years at Zynga he became Founder and CEO of Proletariat, shipping big games like Spellbreak. We discuss being an Imagineer, the three components of creative decisions and "always be pitching" - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Why Games Fail: No Audience, No Hype Seth explains how several recent games failed not from poor quality, but because they launched without building an audience—resulting in commercial flops despite decent reviews. [00:07:00] Raising $20M for Spellbreak: Inside Proletariat’s Biggest Funding Round Hear how Seth and his team secured a major investment led by Take-Two in 2019, helping scale the studio and pave the way for Spellbreak’s development and Blizzard’s later acquisition. [00:10:00] Defining the Product Manager Role in Game Development Seth shares what it meant to be a PM at Zynga during the Facebook gaming boom—managing features like a mini-CEO and driving rapid iteration cycles across live games. [00:20:00] Hug the Sloth: A “Gold Spike” Game That Taught the Basics Learn how a quirky internal prototype helped the team test monetization, push notifications, and Facebook login—building foundational tech for future projects. [00:25:00] Launch Ugly, Learn Fast: Why Early Testing Beats Polish Seth recalls releasing a graybox version of Spellbreak to tens of thousands of players—proving that testing gameplay early matters more than perfecting visuals. [00:45:00] Streamline’s Collapse: How a Twitch Partnership Nearly Killed the Studio A promising Amazon deal turned into a disaster, forcing Proletariat within 72 hours of shutdown. Seth details how they navigated this near-death experience. [00:55:00] Spellbreak’s Origins: From Magic Arrows to Spell Combinations Discover how a spark of inspiration—combining magic attacks in unexpected ways—led to the creation of Spellbreak’s core mechanic and ultimately shaped its success. [01:03:00] Discord Growth and a Viral Trailer: The Road to Acquisition After two failed term sheets, a viral trailer and massive Discord surge helped Proletariat land an Epic Games deal—fueling momentum toward Blizzard’s acquisition. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Night Street's Mac Reynolds Captures the Last Flag 1:12:57

7 weeks ago1:12:57

1:12:57

Our guest this week is Mac Reynolds, CEO and co-founder of Night Street Games, making the PvP shooter Last Flag . As manager of the band, Imagine Dragons, he learned how to find magic from the grind and now applies that to a videogame. We discuss Eagle Scouts, learning to advocate and CTF - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Realizing How Hard It Is to Make a Game Mac shares how his early assumptions about game development were quickly shattered after launching Night Street Games. [00:08:00] From Managing Imagine Dragons to Founding a Game Studio Learn how Mac transitioned from music manager to game studio co-founder with his brother Dan Reynolds, lead singer of Imagine Dragons. [00:11:00] Building Night Street Games: A True Family Venture Mac discusses starting Night Street Games, working with Dan, and their love for classic developers like LucasArts and Sierra. [00:17:00] Designing Last Flag : A New Take on Capture the Flag Hear how Last Flag evolved from a simple concept into a competitive third-person multiplayer game inspired by hide-and-seek. [00:21:00] Innovative Gameplay: Radar Towers, Seeker Drones & Strategy Mac breaks down the unique mechanics that make Last Flag stand out—like territory control and high-stakes flag defense. [00:29:00] Leaving Law for Creativity and Founding a Studio From law school to the Grammy Awards to launching a game studio, Mac reflects on choosing passion over a traditional career path. [00:44:00] Building a Remote, Scalable Game Team from Scratch He explains how Night Street scaled to over 50 people, balancing internal hires with tightly integrated outsourcing. [00:56:00] Comparing Music & Games: Creativity, Community & Joy Mac reflects on what games and music have in common—creation, community, and the magic of bringing people joy. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Oregon Trail's Phillip Bouchard Blazes Deadly Paths 1:01:46

8 weeks ago1:01:46

1:01:46

Our guest this week is the poster boy for educational software going massively mainstream, Phillip Bouchard. Starting in the world of mainframes he created a worldwide hit on Apple II and beyond. We talk Apple getting kickstarted and science for fun and profit this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] The Legacy of The Oregon Trail: Still Remembered 40 Years Later Philip reflects on the surprising longevity of The Oregon Trail , a game still remembered decades after its release and played by new generations. [00:08:00] Dysentery and Game Design: Origins of a Legendary Game Over Screen Discover how the infamous “You have died of dysentery” message became part of the 1985 version—and why it wasn’t in the original 1971 text-only release. [00:13:00] Building the Classic Version: Small Team, Big Impact Learn how a five-person team crafted the Apple II version that defined The Oregon Trail , combining educational goals with entertaining gameplay. [00:20:00] From Text to Graphics: A Full Redesign for Apple II Philip explains how the 1985 version was a complete rebuild with new code, visual assets, and expanded simulations—leaving the original codebase behind. [00:25:00] State-Owned Software: The Story of MEC and Minnesota’s Role Explore how Minnesota’s state-funded organization MEC developed and distributed The Oregon Trail , influencing early educational software nationwide. [00:36:00] Instant School Success: How Teacher Demand Took Over After initially launching only in the home market, teacher demand led to widespread adoption of The Oregon Trail in classrooms across North America. [00:41:00] Life After Oregon Trail: From Munchers to Broderbund Philip talks about his post-Oregon Trail career, including work on the Munchers series and his time at Broderbund and McGraw-Hill. [00:45:00] Writing, AI Art, and Retirement: Philip’s Current Creative Life Now retired, Philip shares his passion for writing science books, experimenting with AI art, and staying curious across new creative hobbies. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Killer Instinct's Adam Boyes Tears Down the Walls 1:20:11

9 weeks ago1:20:11

1:20:11

Our guest this week is Adam Boyes, longtime co-CEO of Iron Galaxy and now founder of Vivrato. From Killer Instinct to The Last of Us Part I , he’s helped bring major games to life and now supports devs launching their own. We discuss putting in raunchy stuff, nemawashi and his magic deck of challenges - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] "Shipping Will Burn You": Why Making Games Is the Best Teacher Adam kicks off with advice for aspiring devs: build, release, and learn from failure—because real growth comes from shipping games, not just dreaming them. [00:08:00] From Farm Town to QA: Adam’s Unlikely Start at EA Sports Hear how Adam landed his first job in games testing NBA Live 97 and FIFA 98 , despite growing up in rural Canada with dreams of working on NHL games. [00:15:00] Modding Roots and BBS Culture: The Birth of a Developer Adam shares how his love for PC modding and running a Jurassic Park–themed BBS shaped his curiosity and multi-discipline approach to game development. [00:27:00] The Wild Days at Midway: Slugfest, Blitz & Studio Chaos From canceled games to f-bomb-filled meetings, Adam reflects on Midway’s raw, chaotic culture—and how it helped him grow as a producer and leader. [00:34:00] “Nemo Washi”: Building Consensus Like a Japanese Producer Adam explains the Japanese business concept of Nemo Washi , and how it shaped his leadership style—building trust, alignment, and resource sharing across teams. [00:44:00] Smashing Red Tape at PlayStation: Killing the Concept Submission Process At Sony, Adam eliminated outdated approval systems and championed indie access, unlocking millions in dev revenue and streamlining platform entry. [00:50:00] Iron Galaxy’s Secret Sauce: Co-Development with the Best in the Biz Adam discusses co-developing Skyrim , Diablo III , The Last of Us Part I , and Fortnite —and how Iron Galaxy became one of the industry’s most trusted studios. [00:56:00] Launching Vivrato: Solving the Game Industry’s Hardest Problems Now at Vivrato, Adam's mission is to help devs at all levels—focusing on industry-wide challenges with a personalized, high-impact advisory approach. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Dead by Daylight’s Rémi Racine Bets on Himself 1:07:43

10 weeks ago1:07:43

1:07:43

Our guest Rémi Racine is the founder & CEO of Behaviour Interactive—the studio behind Dead by Daylight and dozens of other titles. A veteran of the games industry for over 25 years, Rémi has helped shape not just iconic games but also the entire Canadian game development landscape - this week! 00:02:10 — From Montreal to Mainstream: Remi’s first game at age 24 Discover how Remi’s early passion project turned into a pioneering move in Canadian game development. 00:08:45 — The Birth of Behaviour Interactive Learn how Remi spun off from Multimedia Interactive to create a now-iconic game studio. 00:14:30 — Behind the Scenes of Dead by Daylight Remi discusses the strategy, surprises, and evolution of Behaviour’s biggest hit. 00:19:55 — How to Keep a Game Studio Independent A rare look at the decisions and principles that kept Behaviour from being acquired. 00:27:12 — The Reality of Licensing vs. Original IP Get Remi’s take on the balance between creative control and commercial viability. 00:34:00 — What Triple-A Studios Get Wrong Insights from Behaviour’s CEO on the cracks in big-budget game development. 00:41:10 — Advice for Young Game Developers Remi shares the practical skills and mindset that aspiring devs should master. 00:49:55 — His Bold Bet on Service-Based Games Explore why Remi believes in games as ongoing services—and what makes that sustainable. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Uncharted's Nolan North's Weird Ability to Yell 1:16:07

11 weeks ago1:16:07

1:16:07

Our guest Nolan North has brought to life your favorite videogame characters with his voice! From Uncharted's Nathan Drake and Assassin's Creed's Desmond Miles, to scores of others, he is a top talent in the industry. We discuss the freedom of preparation and being broke but happy - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] From Soap Operas to Sound Booths: Nolan North’s Unexpected VO Journey Nolan shares how a friend encouraged him to pivot from acting on Port Charles to voice acting—kicking off a prolific video game career. [00:06:00] Recording Anywhere: How Remote VO Work Changed the Industry Nolan explains how post-pandemic voiceover work allows actors to record high-quality audio from home studios across the country. [00:12:00] Childhood Impressions and Baseball Dreams Hear how Nolan’s early love for mimicking voices and playing sports shaped his journey before he ever touched a microphone. [00:20:00] Breaking In with $750 and a Yell Nolan recalls his first video game gig, yelling lines for just $750—and how that led to a reputation as a go-to, reliable voice actor. [00:26:00] Bringing Nathan Drake to Life with Performance Capture Nolan details how Uncharted rehearsals, ad-libbing, and trust from Amy Hennig made the character of Nathan Drake feel human and iconic. [00:33:00] Going Beyond the Voice: Crafting Penguin, Joker & More Nolan dives into his diverse range—from his gruff Penguin in Arkham to an offbeat version of the Joker and even made-up languages. [00:47:00] Voice Acting Wisdom: It's Not Rejection, It’s Fit He reflects on casting experiences and why actors should focus on authenticity over perfection—it’s about the right fit, not the best read. [01:00:00] The Power of Preparation & Professionalism in Voice Work Nolan stresses the importance of showing up early, knowing your lines, and respecting the team—success is in the discipline. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Hogwarts Legacy's John Blackburn is Cool in the Arcade 1:09:19

12 weeks ago1:09:19

1:09:19

Our guest John Blackburn is a founder and CEO of Avalanche Software, makers of hundreds of games for dozens of platforms, such as Hogwarts Legacy and Disney Infinity . He has tales of when games paid royalties and having to take a chance. We discuss how to talk to execs and being true but not canon - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Mortal Kombat Funded Avalanche’s Origins John Blackburn reveals how Avalanche Studios was launched thanks to Mortal Kombat Trilogy royalties—literally bankrolling the studio's earliest days. [00:13:00] Salt Lake City: An Underrated Game Dev Hotspot John shares the rich game development legacy of Salt Lake City, from the roots of Sculptured Software and Access Software to Avalanche and beyond. [00:21:00] Working on Mortal Kombat at Sculptured Software John discusses his first big project as a junior programmer, working on Mortal Kombat for Super Nintendo—with access to an arcade machine right outside his office. [00:25:00] The Crazy Coincidences Behind Avalanche’s Founding Learn how a failed job offer, a chance bar conversation, and a loophole in rights ownership led to Avalanche’s first contract with Midway. [00:31:00] Mortal Kombat Trilogy: The Royalty Deal That Changed Everything Blackburn explains how the CD-based release of Mortal Kombat Trilogy and a classics reprint led to a royalty windfall that solidified the studio’s future. [00:40:00] Disney Acquires Avalanche for Platforming Expertise John recounts how Avalanche’s work on licensed platformers like Tack and the Power of Juju led to Disney acquiring the studio after seeing early progress on Chicken Little . [00:54:00] How Disney Infinity Was Born from Toy Story 3’s Toy Box Mode Infinity started as a toy-themed platform game before pivoting into the toys-to-life genre after the success of Skylanders—with the blessing of Bob Iger. [01:00:00] The Secret Behind Hogwarts Legacy: Portkey Games & Creative Freedom Blackburn shares how Portkey Games enabled Avalanche to develop an original story set in the Wizarding World—without needing to retell the Harry Potter books. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
What Have You Got to Lose with Blizzard's Michael Morhaime 1:13:02

13 weeks ago1:13:02

1:13:02

Our guest Michael Morhaime was President and CEO of Blizzard during its glory years, shipping Warcraft , Starcraft , World of Warcraft , Diablo and more! Now Founder and CEO Dreamhaven he's won an Emmy and is in the AIAS Hall of Fame. We discuss red tape, how many billion dollar franchises you need on your resume and more - this week! [00:01:00] Blizzard’s High Standards: Canceling Half Their Games Mike reveals that Blizzard canceled nearly half of its projects to maintain quality, highlighting their ruthless pursuit of excellence—a strategy echoed by studios like Supercell. [00:10:00] Founding DreamHaven: A Haven for Creative Freedom Mike discusses how DreamHaven was built on the values that made Blizzard great: empowering internal studios, creative autonomy, and attracting AAA talent. [00:14:00] Why “DreamHaven”? The Story Behind the Studio’s Name Mike shares the inspiration behind DreamHaven’s name, emphasizing its vision as a safe space for innovation and creators. [00:25:00] Early Days at Blizzard: From Electrical Engineer to Game Developer Mike recounts how he transitioned from an EE background to co-founding Blizzard, even bringing the pitch to his dad for approval. [00:32:00] First Console and Coding: The Bally Professional Arcade A nostalgic dive into Mike’s first experience with programming via a BASIC cartridge console—a formative moment in his tech journey. [00:44:00] Navigating Acquisitions: How Blizzard Stayed True to Itself Mike outlines Blizzard’s acquisition history (Davidson, Sierra, Vivendi, Activision) and how the studio maintained independence through it all. [00:50:00] Blizzard’s Secret to Long-Term Success: Prioritizing Players Mike explains how being founder-led and focused on long-term value creation helped Blizzard consistently ship polished, player-first games. [00:58:00] DreamHaven’s Future Vision: Platform Strategy & First Games Mike talks about shipping on Steam, using Unreal/Unity for the first time, and the philosophy behind DreamHaven’s early development choices. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
The Sims' Bing Gordon is Specifically Right 1:15:48

14 weeks ago1:15:48

1:15:48

Our guest Bing Gordon has had a long successful run in videogames and tech. From marketing lead to Chief Creative Officer at EA, he helped shaped NASCAR, The Sims and other huge titles. We discuss pitching, two beer strategies and Speilberg's smoke test - this week! Episode Highlights [00:04:00] How Bing Gordon Helped Launch Electronic Arts Bing shares the story of co-founding EA when it was a scrappy startup in 1983, including raising $2 million in funding and being the company’s one-person marketing department. [00:07:00] Reading the Room: How Bing Predicted Game Success Bing explains how walking into a studio could tell him whether a game would ship on time and be successful—drawing parallels to retail psychology and intuition. [00:10:00] Meeting Trip Hawkins and Dreaming of Virtual Worlds Bing recounts meeting Trip Hawkins at Stanford and discussing early ideas about creating a “virtual Disneyland,” which inspired their future at EA. 00:17:00] Why Bing Fell in Love with Games He discusses his childhood fascination with puzzles, invented games, and the dream of living multiple lives through games, likening them to the metaverse. [00:18:00] Steven Spielberg on Games vs. Movies Bing recalls Spielberg’s take on video games as a “lean-in” medium compared to passive film watching, and how body language helped refine cinematic pacing. [00:23:00] Designing the NASCAR Draft Meter to Win Over Critics Bing talks about a near failure in NASCAR Racing’s development and how adding a visual “draft meter” salvaged the game’s perception and success. [00:51:00] What Makes a Great Founder? Bing shares his top insight into investing: founders who give you an insight you've never heard before are often the most successful. [00:55:00] The Risk of Being 'Generally Right, Specifically Wrong' He explains how being close to a great idea, but missing key details, can result in failure—coining the phrase “generally right, specifically wrong.” Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Portal's Kim Swift's Cake is Not a Lie 1:15:49

15 weeks ago1:15:49

1:15:49

Our guest Kim Swift turned a student demo into the mega-hit Portal . Previously the Head of Creative for Xbox Games Publishing, she also did level design on Left 4 Dead and was Design Director for Star Wars: Battlefront II . We discuss how to pitch, owning IP on Mars and whether or not the cake is a lie - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:21] Kim Swift’s Game Design Origin Story Kim talks about how she got into game development by modding games like Doom and Quake , which eventually led to her joining Valve right out of college. [00:04:37] The Birth of Portal: From Student Project to Valve Kim explains how her DigiPen student project Narbacular Drop caught Valve’s attention and led to the creation of Portal . [00:10:50] Working With Gabe Newell and Valve’s Culture Kim describes Valve’s flat hierarchy, creative freedom, and how working with Gabe Newell shaped her career. [00:14:08] Creative Constraints in Game Design She shares how limits and constraints actually helped drive innovation in Portal’s level design. [00:20:22] The Magic of Short Games: Why Portal Was Just Right Kim reflects on why Portal was intentionally short and how the team prioritized player experience over game length. [00:25:46] From Valve to Big Tech: Her Leap Into Cloud Gaming She discusses her transition from traditional studios to roles at Amazon and Xbox, focusing on innovation in cloud gaming. [00:33:10] Leadership Advice: Trust Your Gut and Advocate for Yourself Kim offers advice for aspiring leaders in tech: trust your instincts, advocate for your ideas, and know your worth. [00:42:15] Kim’s Hopes for the Future of Games She envisions a future where games are more inclusive, emotionally resonant, and push the boundaries of storytelling. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Blinding Flame of Red Dead's Christian Cantamessa 1:21:15

16 weeks ago1:21:15

1:21:15

Our guest Christian Cantamessa began in point and click adventures before becoming lead designer and writer for Red Dead Redemption . Now CEO of Day 4 Night Studios Inc., he is also the writer and director of the film, Air . We discuss concern about GTA III , embracing the game and telling stories in games - this week! [00:00:00] – From Donald Duck to GTA III: Career Whiplash Christian recalls the surreal leap from working on a Donald Duck GBA game to contributing to Grand Theft Auto III at Rockstar Games. [00:07:00] – Founding Day for Night Studios and Teaching at USC Christian shares updates on founding Day for Night Studios , collaborating with legendary composer Grant Kirkhope, and teaching screenwriting at USC. [00:15:00] – How Growing Up in Italy Shaped His Game Development Dreams Christian discusses his early life in Italy, making camcorder movies, discovering Monkey Island , and finding a love for storytelling through games. [00:27:00] – Early Struggles: Typing Code from Magazines and Hand-Me-Down Computers He shares the challenges of learning basic programming on a Commodore 16 and ZX Spectrum without formal training or abundant resources. [00:46:00] – Breaking Into Rockstar: Cold Email to Working on GTA III Christian tells the story of how a spontaneous email to DMA Design led to his move to Scotland to help finish GTA III —despite having no prior open-world experience. [00:53:00] – Designing Emergent Gameplay for GTA III He explains how Rockstar embraced unintended player behavior, turning it into a core design philosophy that shaped GTA III ’s legendary sandbox style. [00:56:00] – Leading Design on Manhunt and Red Dead Redemption After GTA III, Christian became the lead designer of Manhunt and helped shape the narrative and world-building of Red Dead Redemption . [01:00:00] – The Price of Creative Passion: Burnout and Sacrifice Christian reflects on the emotional and personal cost of spending five intense years building Red Dead Redemption , and whether true greatness requires full commitment. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Command and Conquer's Louis Castle's Triple Threat 1:08:39

17 weeks ago1:08:39

1:08:39

Our guest Louis Castle helped invent real-time strategy games with Command and Conquer and has a BAFTA for Boom Blox . Now leading Childlike Wonder Games, we discuss casino ethics, switching to real-time and building toys - this week! Top 8 Highlights [00:00:00] – Lifelong Learning: The Key to Game Design Success Louis Castle opens the episode by emphasizing the importance of constant learning as a game designer, citing curiosity and adaptability as essential traits. [00:06:00] – Founding Westwood Studios & Creating the RTS Genre Louis reflects on co-founding Westwood Studios, the groundbreaking work on Command & Conquer , and helping define the real-time strategy genre. [00:10:00] – Game Design vs. Casino Game Ethics He explains how game design in the casino industry is more ethically regulated than video games, raising concerns about manipulation in mainstream game design. [00:17:00] – A True Multidisciplinary Game Maker Louis shares how he started as both an artist and programmer, contributing art, code, and design to early Westwood projects. [00:27:00] – Westwood’s Mission: Make Complex Games Accessible From Eye of the Beholder to Dune II , Louis discusses how Westwood focused on turning deep mechanics into real-time, accessible gameplay. [00:41:00] – Technical Wizardry: Building Custom Operating Systems Louis describes how he built custom OS-level tools and game engines to push hardware limits, including 60 FPS variable frame rate systems in the ‘80s. [00:44:00] – Childlike Wonder Games: His New Studio & GenAI Vision He announces his new studio, Childlike Wonder Games , and its mission to create strategy games that let players use generative AI to customize gameplay. [00:56:00] – The Wild Ride: Selling Westwood 4 Times Before EA Louis recounts how Westwood was acquired four times—eventually landing at EA—and how he handled all the financial and legal negotiations himself. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Tencent's Amir Satvat Flexes the Data Muscle for Good 1:14:20

18 weeks ago1:14:20

1:14:20

Our guest Amir Satvat wants to get you a job in games. A business development executive at Tencent, he won the Game Changer award for the incredible community he built which has helped over 3k gamedevs find their next role with mentorship, mock interviews and more. We discuss "the troubles" and hopes for the future - this week! You can find Amir's website and community here: https://amirsatvat.com/ [00:00:00] The 17-Year Grind: Amir shares how it took nearly two decades—and hundreds of rejections—before landing his first job in games at age 38. [00:14:00] The Job Engine Behind 3,300 Careers: Amir’s community has helped thousands land jobs in games. From mock interviews to portfolio reviews—this is how it all works. [00:22:00] 2,300 Games and One Epic Spreadsheet: Amir has played over 2,300 games, tracking his thoughts on each one in a personal mega-spreadsheet since childhood. [00:26:00] Inside Four Rooms of Game Collectibles: Amir owns every Amiibo, rare WOW minis, and a glowing Wind Waker statue—all spread across four dedicated rooms. [00:27:00] Why the Game Industry is Shrinking (for Now): Layoffs, oversupply, and rising dev costs—Amir breaks down the real reasons behind the industry's contraction. [00:34:00] The Great Talent Shift to Asia: Data shows jobs migrating away from California and toward Asia and Europe—Amir explains why it’s happening and what it means. [00:42:00] Hope, Help, and Hugging at GDC: Amir reflects on the emotional impact of his work—stories of saved homes, career comebacks, and life-changing support. [01:08:00] Has Gaming Growth Peaked? The crew unpacks whether the golden age of game industry expansion is slowing—and what’s next for developers and players alike. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Outer Wilds' Alex Beachum's Cool Weird Emotional Prototypes 1:12:11

19 weeks ago1:12:11

1:12:11

Our guest Alex Beachum turned his thesis project into the mind-bending smash Outer Wilds . Inspired by greats such as Zelda and Antichamber , it blazed new ground by having a nonviolent (though definitely mortal) player. We discuss emotional prototypes, four distinct mysteries and the IGF - this week! Highlights [00:00:30] Emotional Prototyping: Designing with Feeling Alex Beachum discusses the idea of building an emotional prototype for a game, capturing the vibe before mechanics—like roasting marshmallows as the sun explodes. This became the emotional core of Outer Wilds . [00:17:30] The Origin of the Supernova Mechanic: The moment that inspired the iconic supernova loop in Outer Wilds —watching planets explode in slow motion—originated as a student prototype focused on ambiance and inevitability. [00:09:00] Building a Space Game Without Combat: Alex wanted to make a space exploration game without combat, inspired by Apollo 13 and 2001: A Space Odyssey . The idea was pure exploration—“not to conquer, just to understand.” [00:10:30] How ‘ Outer Wilds ’ Was Almost a Roguelike Originally envisioned as a roguelike with randomized elements, Outer Wilds shifted to a fixed solar system with a time loop to better serve its story and design goals. [00:08:00] Zelda , Myst , and the Indie Inspirations Behind Outer Wilds : Beachum references Zelda , Myst , and Antichamber as key influences. The design philosophy emphasized knowledge as power, like discovering rules you could’ve used all along. [00:53:00] The Ship Log: Making Mystery Manageable: Alex explains the design of the ship log, which breaks the story into four “curiosity webs” so players can uncover the mystery in any order. A masterclass in open-world narrative structure. [00:39:00] From Stop Motion to Indie Stardom: Alex recounts how his childhood love of stop-motion and magic tricks evolved into a passion for visual storytelling and game design, eventually leading to Outer Wilds . [00:42:30] Working with Family: Sibling Storytelling: Alex collaborated with his sister Kelsey Beachum, the writer of Outer Wilds , on the narrative. Their sibling dynamic added cohesion to the game’s emotional and story depth. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Maestro of Modding Sandi Montaño 57:53

20 weeks ago57:53

57:53

In this inspiring episode of The Fourth Curtain , we sit down with Sandi Montaño , a self-taught modding phenom who went from stay-at-home dad to one of the most downloaded indie creators in the gaming world. With over 31 million downloads of his content for games like ARK: Survival Ascended and Hogwarts Legacy , Sandi proves you don’t need a degree—or even a formal background in game development—to make a major impact. If you’re a game developer, modder, or creative looking to break into the industry—this is a must-listen. What started as a project to entertain his daughter has turned into a successful business. We discuss Blender, community needs and geometric growth this week! [00:00:40] Modding During Nap Time Sandi shares how he taught himself game modding using textbooks during his daughter’s daily naps—no school, no YouTube, just pure grit. [00:02:15] 31 Million Downloads & Counting Alex and Aaron react to the jaw-dropping number of downloads Sandi has achieved—and how it all started as a creative project with his daughter. [00:10:00] How a Simple Structure Became a Business Sandi explains how he began creating ARK mods specifically for his daughter, which unexpectedly turned into a full-time business. [00:17:45] Modding Hogwarts Legacy with SQL Sandi talks about stepping into Hogwarts Legacy modding and the unexpected challenge of learning SQL to build new features. [00:24:40] How He Tests New Ideas (The Smart Way) Sandi walks through his efficient system of prototyping floor and wall structures, using community feedback to determine what becomes a premium mod. [00:29:10] Modding for Relaxation—and Revenue Sandi reflects on how modding became both his creative outlet and a surprisingly profitable business, even allowing him to hire help. [00:35:15] Explaining Your Job as a Modder He shares how surreal it was when his barber turned out to be a fan using his mods—and the tricky task of explaining his job to others. [00:46:00] Advice for Aspiring Modders Sandi encourages anyone curious about modding to just get started—highlighting persistence, experimentation, and community feedback as key ingredients to success. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Exploding Kittens' Elan Lee Stacks the Deck 1:12:28

21 weeks ago1:12:28

1:12:28

Our guest is Exploding Kitten's Elan Lee. Starting with animating breath for the film Titanic, he went on to create the world's first alternate reality game, The Beast, at Microsoft. Later he gamified Nine Inch Nails and voter registration and went on to launch the most successful Kickstarter ever for Exploding Kittens, redefining family game night. This episode features great stories and a world exclusive product announcement - this week! [00:06:30] From ILM to Xbox Elan shares his early work on Titanic and Star Wars , including hand-animating breath and neck seams for Jar Jar Binks—yes, really. [00:18:30] The Xbox Origin Story Elan recounts joining Microsoft during the secretive beginnings of Xbox and working with gaming legend Jordan Weisman on the launch lineup. [00:30:45] Creating the First ARG with Spielberg How AI: Artificial Intelligence inspired Elan to pioneer alternate reality games, turning storytelling into an interactive experience. [00:35:00] Nine Inch Nails and “The Game That Calls You” Partnering with Trent Reznor, Elan built an ARG that included thermochromic CD ink, cryptic websites, and secret concerts. [00:41:30] The Clothing Line That Taught U.S. History A secret-encoded T-shirt line that secretly retold the story of the American Revolution—gamified fashion meets education. [00:49:00] Why Exploding Kittens Happened After stepping away from screens, Elan turned to physical games and launched Exploding Kittens , which raised $9 million on Kickstarter. [00:54:45] Inside the Chaos of Fulfilling 700,000 Orders How Elan went from a 200-copy side project to full-scale game production, leaning on friends (and Cards Against Humanity ) to survive. [01:01:30] Teasing the New Exploding Kittens Board Game Elan reveals an exclusive about a brand-new 3D board game version of Exploding Kittens coming soon—with a mechanic that took two years to perfect. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Journey's Jenova Chen and the Art of the Positive Game 1:16:39

22 weeks ago1:16:39

1:16:39

This week's guest is Jenova Chen, creator of Journey , Sky: Children of the Light and other games. A BAFTA winner, he has strong opinions about morality in games and the value of positivity. We discuss the unique way he starts games, GDC's value and being the opposite of GTA - this week! [00:00:00] Music as the Highest Resolution Emotional Medium Jenova Chen explains why he believes music is the most powerful emotional communication tool, comparing it to pixel art and poetry. [00:08:00] The Journey of thatgamecompany & Raising $160M Jenova shares how Thatgamecompany evolved from a student project to a studio that raised $160 million in venture capital. [00:14:00] Growing Up in Shanghai & Discovering Gaming Jenova reflects on his childhood in China, his parents' skepticism of video games, and how he discovered his passion for interactive media. [00:28:00] Pitching a Game at USC & The Origins of thatgamecompany Jenova recalls how he pitched a student game to secure funding, which eventually led to the founding of thatgamecompany. [00:32:00] Creating Games as Art & The Success of Cloud The unexpected viral success of Cloud and how it convinced Jenova that video games could be a respected artistic medium. [00:41:00] How Jenova Chen Designs Games: Starting with Emotion Jenova describes his creative process, starting with imagery and music to establish the emotional tone before designing mechanics. [00:51:00] Comedy & Romance in Games: A Missed Opportunity Jenova discusses how certain film genres—like romantic comedies—are underrepresented in gaming and how they could become successful. [00:58:00] Designing the Emotional Journey in Journey How Journey ’s climactic moment was carefully crafted by contrasting moments of struggle with a powerful sense of freedom. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Alex Irvine's Storytelling Secrets from Marvel Rivals and Beyond! 1:10:52

23 weeks ago1:10:52

1:10:52

Dive into the compelling world of storytelling with acclaimed author Alex Irvine, known for his immersive contributions to Marvel games, graphic novels, and groundbreaking Alternate Reality Games (ARGs) like I Love Bees . In this episode, Alex shares his insights on creativity, the delicate balance between talent, persistence, and luck, and the intricate art of narrative design across various media formats. From discussing the unique challenges of writing for expansive universes like Marvel's multiverse to recalling his first forays into writing, Alex reveals the true secret ingredient to success. Packed with engaging anecdotes and wisdom, this conversation will captivate aspiring creators, gamers, and narrative enthusiasts alike. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Alex Irvine shares essential advice on becoming a successful writer: "Talent, persistence, luck—pick two." [09:00] Discussing how storytelling integrates with gameplay mechanics, using Marvel Rivals as a case study. [13:00] Behind-the-scenes insight into early Marvel game universe-building attempts, and how ambitious projects like a Marvel gaming universe unfold. [14:00] Crafting "time-stream entanglement" as a narrative device for multiverse stories in Marvel Rivals. [22:00] Childhood inspiration from playing Dungeons & Dragons, storytelling roots, and writing early poetry. [35:00] Persistence in publishing his first novel, A Scattering of Jades , after years of setbacks. [45:00] The exhilarating chaos of writing ARG puzzles and player reactions for I Love Bees . [56:00] Alex reflects on the collaborative process of writing comics and the delicate balance between writer and artist. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Hope for the Future with Halo's Joe Staten 1:22:53

24 weeks ago1:22:53

1:22:53

This week's guest is Halo and Destiny's Joe Staten. Beginning as a farmhand, he went on to lead teams in the Halo franchise, be on the core team for Destiny, write a NYT bestselling novel and work with the great Peter Jackson. Now looking for his next role, we discuss how Bungie was like a family business, the most important mysteries and creativity and risk - this week! Episode Highlights – Joseph Staten on The Fourth Curtain Podcast 🎙️ Guest: Joseph Staten – Writer, Cinematics Director, Creative Director, NYT Bestselling Author, Voice Actor, and former Halo/Destiny dev. 07:50 – Introduction – Alex and Aaron welcome Joseph Staten and reminisce about their early days working together. 09:05 – Joseph’s Bungie Origins – How Alex took a chance on Joe and changed his career trajectory. 10:45 – From Theater to Game Development – Joe’s academic path from Northwestern University and how it shaped his approach to storytelling. 14:15 – Wine, Farm Work, and Video Games – How working at a family vineyard led to playing Myth and ultimately a job interview at Bungie. 15:22 – The Wild Flight to Bungie – Joe’s harrowing experience on ATA Airlines en route to his Bungie interview. 18:36 – Lessons from a Non-Traditional Career Path – Why diverse backgrounds create stronger game developers. 21:30 – The Importance of Curiosity and Hustle – How a self-starter mindset helped Joe navigate the game industry. 28:34 – The Journey to Creative Director – How Joe transitioned from Bungie’s publishing team to leading game development. 33:24 – Hard Lessons in Leadership – Learning to communicate effectively and navigate failure as a team leader. 37:58 – Building Trust in Game Development – Why trust is the foundation of every successful project. 40:06 – Playing Halo as a Fan – Joe’s experience playing Halo games he didn’t work on, starting with Halo: Reach . 46:03 – ODST’s Development Challenges – How Joe and Paul Bertone led a small team to ship Halo 3: ODST under intense constraints. 50:40 – Difficult Decisions in Game Development – The toughest calls made during ODST and Halo Infinite . 52:30 – The Scale of Halo Infinite – Managing 800+ developers and the challenges of finishing a large-scale game. 56:22 – Why Aren’t There More Marines? – A small but impactful design decision in Halo Infinite . 58:26 – The Future of AAA Games – Joe’s thoughts on the shifting industry landscape and what’s next for game dev. 1:05:19 – Iteration is Key to Success – Why persistence and iteration define the best games. 1: Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Games Workshop's Ian Livingstone, Fantasy Knight in Real Life 1:26:44

25 weeks ago1:26:44

1:26:44

This week's guest is a founder of Games Workshop, publisher of White Dwarf magazine, creator of the Fighting Fantasy Books and Executive Chair of Eidos Interactive Sir Ian Livingstone. This Knight of the British Empire started a business while living in a van, prevailed through a Satanic panic about his Fighting books, saw the promise of a certain Tomb Raider and birthed a mass media entertainment phenomenon. Now using games for education, we talk getting bonkers exclusives, the 3 G's of gamedev and more - this week! 🎙️ The Fourth Curtain – S3 Ep01: Sir Ian Livingstone 🎲 [00:00:00] – Living in a Van to Build a Games Empire 🚐 Ian shares how he and his co-founder lived in a van outside a squash club while starting Games Workshop. [00:08:00] – GenCon, Early Game Distribution & Meeting Gygax 🎲 Traveling to GenCon, discovering Dungeons & Dragons , and securing the European distribution rights for TSR. [00:18:00] – Building Games Workshop & Warhammer’s Rise 🏰 The journey from selling board games to launching Warhammer and revolutionizing tabletop gaming. [00:26:00] – Fighting Fantasy & Interactive Storytelling 📖 How Fighting Fantasy books became a global phenomenon and pioneered branching narratives in gaming. [00:38:00] – Eidos & The Birth of Tomb Raider 🎮 The story behind discovering Tomb Raider during due diligence and its meteoric rise in gaming and pop culture. [00:49:00] – The Business of Games & Investing in Innovation 💰 Ian’s philosophy on game design, the importance of IP ownership, and why gameplay always comes first. [01:04:00] – Where the Games Industry is Heading 🚀 Thoughts on the evolution of games, emerging technologies, and the future of innovation in gaming. [01:11:00] – Closing Thoughts & A Look Ahead 🔮 Ian shares insights on the importance of creativity, the future of interactive media, and what’s next for him. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Best of 2024 1:44:49

26 weeks ago1:44:49

1:44:49

In this week's episode we recap some of the best moments from Season 2, with John Romero on hits and misses, how Peter Molyneux makes a game, Ed Fries on Xbox's Valentines Day massacre, Warren Spector on how playstyle is everything and much more! 🎮 The Fourth Curtain – S2 Best Of Highlights [00:00:00] – Season 2 Recap & Patreon Launch 🎉 Alex and Aaron reflect on Season 2, announce the new Patreon, and tease upcoming guests. [00:08:00] – John Romero’s First Game 👾 John shares how he programmed his first game on a mainframe in 1979 and discovered Colossal Cave Adventure . [00:26:00] – Mike Wilson & The Wild West of Publishing 🤠 Mike tells stories from GT Interactive , including publishing DOOM and the infamous Fabio Screensaver . [00:38:00] – Game Delays & Business Realities ⏳ Industry veterans discuss the tough decisions behind delaying games and the shift from retail to digital. [00:49:00] – Mitch Lasky on Venture Capital & Gaming 💰 Mitch talks about investing in Instagram, Twitter, Uber, Snapchat, Riot Games, and Discord . [01:04:00] – The Xbox Origin Story – The Valentine's Day Massacre 🎮 Ed Fries recounts the high-stakes meeting where Microsoft approved the original Xbox. [01:27:00] – Jesse Schell Predicts AI in Games 🤖 Jesse discusses AI-driven NPCs, procedural storytelling, and the future of interactive experiences. [01:32:00] – AI’s Impact on Game Development & Publishing ⚙️ Frank Gibeau and others explore AI’s role in monetization, engagement, and player behavior. [01:43:00] – Season 3 Tease & Farewell 🎭 A sneak peek at upcoming guests, including Sir Ian Livingstone , and an invitation to join the Patreon. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Ed Boon Gets into the Nitty-Gritty Metal 1:11:16

43 weeks ago1:11:16

1:11:16

Welcome to the Season Two finale episode! And it's a Monster!!!! (Never fear, we will be back in a couple of weeks with some special episodes to bridge the gap to Season Three!) This week's guest is Ed Boon, co-creator of Mortal Kombat and Injustice and Chief Creative Officer of Mortal Kombat and NetherRealm Studios! Starting in the world of pinball, he moved onto arcade games at the legendary Midway Games and is still making blockbusters. We discuss his World Record entry in the book of Guinness, the cultural impact of MK and the key question he asks at the start of every project, this week! Highlights! 06:15 – 06:53 Alex introduces Ed Boon as the longest-serving video game voice actor and co-creator of Mortal Kombat, discussing his legacy in the gaming world. 08:55 – 10:01 Aaron shares a story about a rumor regarding Mortal Kombat being chosen over Judge Dredd for arcade cabinet production. Ed clarifies the details and dispels the myth. 11:00 – 11:41 Ed Boon reflects on the early days of making games, the small team behind Mortal Kombat, and the excitement of seeing it come together. 14:41 – 15:29 Ed discusses Mortal Kombat's early impact on the gaming industry and the role of digitized characters, mentioning how it was one of the first games to popularize the technology in arcades. 25:31 – 26:39 Ed describes the transition from Williams Electronics to Midway and later NetherRealm Studios, reflecting on the various "chapters" of his career in video game development. 28:33 – 29:42 Ed talks about the support Warner Brothers gave to Mortal Kombat 9, including extending the development timeline, which allowed it to become one of the biggest-selling games in the franchise. 39:34 – 41:40 Ed explains how the home version of Mortal Kombat and other controversial games like Doom and Night Trap drew attention, eventually leading to the creation of the ESRB ratings system. 45:05 – 46:00 Ed shares a memorable moment seeing 17 Mortal Kombat 2 arcade machines lined up at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, which made him realize the game's massive popularity. 47:39 – 47:54 Ed recounts how he became a member of the Screen Actors Guild to voice Scorpion’s famous line, "Get over here!" for the Mortal Kombat movie, still receiving royalty checks to this day. 48:18 – 49:33 Ed describes the approach to developing new Mortal Kombat games, focusing on how to add new features and experiences to keep each version fresh for players. 01:01:32 – 01:03:37 Ed praises the successes of other Warner Bros. studios like Rocksteady with Arkham and Avalanche with Hogwarts Legacy , reflecting on the camaraderie and collaboration within the Warner gaming fami Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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From Pong to Deconstructor: Mishka Katkoff’s Global Gaming Journey 1:11:59

44 weeks ago1:11:59

1:11:59

Ok, we know this episode should be called Something Fun on the Toilet with MK, but we're chose to keep it classy. Our guest this week is Michail Katkoff, a veteran of Zynga, Supercell, and Rovio, partner in Play Ventures, and founder of Deconstructor of Fun. In all of these different roles he's developed a unique understanding of our industry from different perspectives. We discuss product management, insane mobile profits and the ecosystem necessary to support game studios. 00:00 – Introduction : Alex and Aaron introduce Mishka, highlighting his diverse roles in the gaming industry. 02:00 – First Steps : Mishka talks about his first role in the industry at Digital Chocolate and his encounters with Trip Hawkins. 05:45 – Cultural Differences in Gaming : Mishka reflects on the differences between the Finnish and Californian working cultures. 08:30 – Early Influences : Growing up in the Soviet Union, Mishka shares how Pong and Sega sparked his passion for gaming. 10:50 – From Business to Games : Mishka recounts how he left the corporate world to pursue his dream in the gaming industry. 14:00 – Product Management Explained : Mishka breaks down the role of a Product Manager in gaming and how he helped shape game monetization. 16:30 – Crazy Discoveries in Player Data : Mishka reveals insights from analyzing player behavior and the surprising findings about in-game sales. 22:00 – Ethics in Monetization : A candid conversation about the moral questions surrounding microtransactions and the 'whale' phenomenon. 29:00 – Building the Finnish Gaming Scene : Mishka explains how Nokia and the Finnish education system helped create a gaming ecosystem. 36:00 – Challenges for Indie Developers : Discussion on the current challenges small studios face in breaking into the mobile gaming market. 40:30 – Favorite Games : Mishka shares his love for grand strategy and historical games, and his mobile game preferences. 45:00 – Deconstructor of Fun : How Mishka started Deconstructor of Fun and grew it into a leading platform for industry insights. 50:00 – Launching a Studio : Mishka talks about starting a game studio and its eventual acquisition by Sony. This episode is perfect for anyone interested in the gaming industry, product management, or how mobile gaming has evolved over the years! Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Things Blow Up with Mike Pondsmith 1:27:41

45 weeks ago1:27:41

1:27:41

In this episode of The Fourth Curtain , legendary game designer Mike Pondsmith joins hosts Alex and Aaron for an in-depth conversation about his expansive career, from creating the tabletop RPG Cyberpunk to collaborating with CD Projekt Red on Cyberpunk 2077 . Mike discusses his early days in game development, the creation of Night City , and the challenges of translating tabletop concepts into video games. The episode is full of humor, industry insights, and engaging anecdotes, offering listeners a rare look into the mind of a creator who has shaped both pen-and-paper and digital gaming worlds. Time-Stamped Highlights [05:00:23] – Introduction of Mike Pondsmith, founder of R. Talsorian Games and creator of Cyberpunk . [05:01:15] – Mike talks about his early work on Crimson Skies , MechCommander , and Blood Wake . [00:02:19] – Discussion on the challenges of developing Crimson Skies and insights into game development at the time. [05:03:57] – Mike shares his surprise at how organized CD Projekt Red was during the development of Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 . [09:17:98] – Mike Pondsmith talks about inventing Cyberpunk and how it grew into a genre-defining game. [10:04:69] – The origins of CD Projekt Red’s relationship with Cyberpunk , including a fun anecdote about selling the first copies of Cyberpunk in Poland. [11:49:84] – Mike’s involvement in helping the CD Projekt team stay true to the Cyberpunk universe and why flying cars were initially excluded from Cyberpunk 2077 . [12:52:40] – Discussion on the differences between Cyberpunk and Blade Runner and how Night City was built with a unique vision. [14:53:02] – Mike recalls his son’s involvement in game design and how the family has collaborated on creative projects like Shadow Scar . [16:42:91] – The renaissance of tabletop games and the challenges with distribution in the modern market. [22:35:15] – Mike shares a humorous story about playing D&D with a “lady of the night” as a cleric in one of his first tabletop games. [28:50:00] – Mike explains his philosophy on world-building and how Cyberpunk was designed to allow players to fully engage with a violent, dystopian world. [37:05:86] – Mike describes how tabletop game design provides a skeleton framework that translates well into video game development. [49:51:27] – Mike reveals that Night City was inspired by Disneyland, with different areas modeled after distinct thematic zones. [54:49:35] – The story behind designing the corporate Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Business Romance of Mihai Pohontu 1:25:08

46 weeks ago1:25:08

1:25:08

This week on The Fourth Curtain , we’re joined by Mihai Pohontu, CEO and Chairman of Amber Studio, a distinguished figure in the gaming industry. Mihai, who was recently named Romanian Entrepreneur of the Year, shares his fascinating journey from the upheaval of post-revolution Romania to becoming a leader in global game development. A self-described business romantic , Mihai offers insightful perspectives on the role of capitalism and entrepreneurship in shaping a better society. Amber Studio, a valued partner to this podcast, has provided critical development services across the industry, including work on popular titles like Stumble Guys . In this episode, we dive into Mihai’s unique path into gaming through quality assurance, the philosophy behind game testing, and Amber Studio's approach to talent development in emerging markets. We also explore the industry’s challenges and opportunities in training the next generation of game developers and how Amber is actively contributing to this effort. Join us for an in-depth conversation about the future of game development, business philosophy, and the personal experiences that shaped Mihai’s career. Timestamped Highlights: [00:01:00] – The Value of Game Testing: Mihai discusses how starting as a tester provides invaluable insights into how software grows and evolves, highlighting the benefits for aspiring game developers. [00:05:00] – Amber Studio and the Global Game Development Ecosystem: Mihai shares the journey of Amber Studio, including its partnership with major studios and contributions to games like Stumble Guys . [00:09:00] – Business Romantic Philosophy: Mihai introduces his idea of "business romanticism," where capitalism is seen as a transformative force for good, beyond shareholder value. [00:12:00] – Bridging the Junior to Senior Talent Gap: Discussion on the challenges of transitioning junior developers to senior roles and the initiatives Amber Studio has implemented to train and support emerging talent in Romania and Mexico. [00:19:00] – Amber Studio's Growth: Mihai details the expansion of Amber Studio into multiple countries, the diversity of platforms they work on, and the unique challenges of managing such a large team across different regions. [00:24:00] – Mihai’s Upbringing in Revolutionary Romania: He reflects on growing up in Bucharest during a time of political and economic upheaval, which shaped his relationship with video games as an escape. [00:32:00] – Early Career at Activision: Mihai recounts his early experiences working as a QA tester for games like Civilization Call to Power and Medieval: Total War at Activision. [00:46:00] – The Formation of EA Romania: Mihai explain Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Warren Spector Gets the Keys to the Kingdom 1:29:23

47 weeks ago1:29:23

1:29:23

Our guest Warren Spector is the creative producer behind vastly influential games like Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Deus Ex and many others. Now working on (working title) Argos, he joins us to talk about the birth of the immersive sim, having amazing mentors and ways to start a game, this week! The conversation dives deep into Warren's career, discussing his design philosophy around player agency and choice, the history behind some of the most influential immersive sim games, and his experiences working at companies like Origin Systems, Ion Storm, and Disney. Warren shares behind-the-scenes stories about the development of Deus Ex , his transition from tabletop gaming to video games, and his collaborations with industry legends like Doug Church and John Romero. The episode also touches on Warren’s current work with OtherSide Entertainment and his ambitious, upcoming project, Argos . Timestamped Highlights: [00:01:00] Warren discusses his design philosophy: player choice and agency. [00:02:30] Alex recalls working with Warren at Junction Point on Epic Mickey . [00:03:50] Aaron shares a humorous story about flubbing an interview with Warren during his early career. [00:10:00] Warren talks about his early work with TSR and Steve Jackson Games in the tabletop space. [00:12:00] Working on System Shock and the role of Looking Glass Studios. [00:18:00] Warren’s transition from tabletop to video games and his early days at Origin Systems. [00:20:00] The creative process behind Deus Ex and Warren’s work with Ion Storm. [00:24:00] Story of how John Romero offered Warren creative freedom at Ion Storm to make Deus Ex . [00:31:00] Warren shares his love for board games and his extensive library of books and car magazines. [00:39:00] Growing up in New York and his passion for film, leading to his career shift. [00:46:00] Warren’s first exposure to Dungeons & Dragons in 1978, which profoundly influenced his game design philosophy. [00:53:00] His critique of games that lack meaningful player choice and why he strives to offer alternative solutions in his games. [01:00:00] A sneak peek into his new project at OtherSide Entertainment, Argos , though much remains under wraps. [01:05:00] Discussion about working with Disney and the creative challenges of designing Epic Mickey . [01:09:00] Alex and Warren reflect on their experiences working within Disney and the corporate dynamics. This episode is packed with gems on game design, industry insights, and entertaining stories from one of gaming's most celebrated designers. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Ed Fries Races The Beam 1:33:43

48 weeks ago1:33:43

1:33:43

In this episode of The Fourth Curtain , Alex and Aaron sit down with Ed Fries, a pivotal figure in the gaming industry and former VP at Microsoft, where he helped launch the Xbox. Ed shares stories from his early days at Microsoft, including how he made the leap from working on Office products to heading up the game division. He dives into the creation of the original Xbox, the challenges the team faced, and the infamous "Valentine’s Day Massacre" meeting where Xbox's future hung in the balance. Ed also talks about his passion for game development, stretching back to his teenage years programming for Atari, and his ongoing support for indie game developers through his venture fund, 1UP Ventures. Throughout the conversation, Ed’s storytelling shines as he reflects on the impact of the Xbox, Halo, and his own entrepreneurial journey in the gaming world. For listeners interested in the deeper technical side of gaming history, we recommend reading Racing the Beam , a book that explores the development of the Atari 2600, the platform that first captured Ed’s imagination as a developer. Timestamped Highlights: [00:01:00] – Alex and Aaron introduce Ed Fries and reminisce about the early Xbox days. [00:07:00] – Ed shares his background in game programming for the Atari 800. [00:13:00] – The origin of the first-ever screensaver, developed by Ed at Microsoft. [00:23:00] – Ed's thoughts on the evolving game industry and his passion for supporting indie developers. [00:29:00] – How Ed transitioned from the Office team to leading Microsoft’s game division. [00:34:00] – Behind the scenes of the Xbox’s early development, including the "Valentine’s Day Massacre" meeting with Bill Gates. [00:45:00] – The crucial role Halo played in the success of the Xbox launch. [01:00:00] – Reflections on the challenges Microsoft faced with hardware and pricing during the Xbox’s lifecycle. [01:05:00] – Ed’s post-Microsoft career, including Halo 2600 and the founding of 1UP Ventures. Support the show Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Kimya Taheri Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Frank Gibeau's Silver Bullets for Game Development 1:13:38

49 weeks ago1:13:38