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Before The Chorus


1 LIVE: Before the Chorus & Open Folk Present: In These Lines feat. Gaby Moreno, Lily Kershaw & James Spaite 33:58
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On June 25th 2025, in collaboration with Open Folk, we presented our first ever live interview event in Los Angeles. As Open Folk put it: "In These Lines is a live event where three artists each bring one song — not just to perform, but to explore. They sit down with Sofia Loporcaro, host of Before The Chorus, to talk about where the song came from, what it meant to write it, and what it still holds. Then they play it. Just the song, and the truth behind it." Find Open Folk on Instagram: @openfolkla Find Gaby on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0K9pSmFx0kWESA9jqx8aCW?si=Wz4RUP88Qlm_RKs7QTLvWQ On Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/gaby-moreno/472697737 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gaby_moreno/ Find Lily on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0p0ksmwMDQlAM24TWKu4Ua?si=Bmdg-uIUTHu-zRUc_dqL3g On Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/lily-kershaw/526884610 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lilykershaw/ Find James on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3u50TPoLvMBXNT1KrLa3iT?si=OoLoq7ZTRZyUiytQcz0FsQ On Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/james-spaite/905076868 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamesspaite/ Subscribe: https://beforethechorus.bio.to/listen Sign up for our newsletter: https://www.beforethechorus.com/ Follow on Instagram: @beforethechoruspodcast & @soundslikesofia About the podcast: Welcome to Before the Chorus , where we go beyond the sounds of our favourite songs to hear the stories of the artists who wrote them. Before a song is released, a record is produced, or a chorus is written, the musicians that write them think. A lot. They live. A lot. And they feel. A LOT. Hosted by award-winning interviewer Sofia Loporcaro, Before the Chorus explores the genuine human experiences behind the music. Sofia’s deep knowledge of music and personal journey with mental health help her connect with artists on a meaningful level. This is a space where fans connect with artists, and listeners from all walks of life feel seen through the stories that shape the music we love. About the host: Sofia Loporcaro is an award-winning interviewer and radio host who’s spent over 8 years helping musicians share their stories. She’s hosted shows for Amazing Radio, and Transmission Roundhouse. Now on Before the Chorus, she’s had the chance to host guests like Glass Animals, Feist, Madison Cunningham, Mick Jenkins, & Ru Paul's Drag Race winner Shea Couleé. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
How Not to Act Like an Expert
Manage episode 178195061 series 1428215
Content provided by David C. Baker and Blair Enns, David C. Baker, and Blair Enns. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by David C. Baker and Blair Enns, David C. Baker, and Blair Enns or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
David and Blair make a list of the common mistakes that people make in trying to portray themselves as experts.
220 episodes
Manage episode 178195061 series 1428215
Content provided by David C. Baker and Blair Enns, David C. Baker, and Blair Enns. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by David C. Baker and Blair Enns, David C. Baker, and Blair Enns or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://ppacc.player.fm/legal.
David and Blair make a list of the common mistakes that people make in trying to portray themselves as experts.
220 episodes
All episodes
×Instead of just relying on the talent of individual sales people, Blair recommends creative agencies identify and invest in six elements as a part of their organization’s long-term sales system. LINKS "Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer" 2Bobs episode "How to Ask for Referrals" 2Bobs episode "CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid" 2Bobs episode "Who Should Set Prices?" 2Bobs episode "Mastering the Value Conversation" 2Bobs episode…
David finds the courage to address a topic he’s been putting off for awhile, as he is seeing more agency principals struggling to maintain both healthy and productive work environments by leading the ongoing process of resolving tensions within their teams. LINKS "Adapting to a Modern Workforce" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com…
Instead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the “Probative Conversation” from his Four Conversations sales model. LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns…
When it comes to positioning, David is still seeing creative firms failing to answer three essential questions in the proper sequence: category, specialization, and then secondary differentiators (or qualifying characteristics).
Blair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation? Links “Anchor High” by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com…

1 What to Ask, Sign, and Share With a Potential Buyer 23:54
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Following up on the recent episode on whether you should be considering that offer to sell your firm, David provides four questions to get answered, two documents to sign, and a short list of materials that can help you take the lead in early conversations with a buyer. LINKS ”Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer?”…
The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise. LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com

1 Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer? 24:39
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Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm. Links “Should You Entertain That Offer?” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm…
Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this. Links “How to Ask for Referrals” 2Bobs episode
As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality. Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com Rory Sutherland's LinkedIn post David's LinkedIn post…
As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links “Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?” written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com…
David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair’s advice is to run it as if you’ll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations. Links “Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com…
Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client.
In Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn’t get executed is it doesn’t recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing. LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode…
David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm’s development when it’s all about “what we can afford,” the middle stage when it’s about “what we need,” and then the later days of an agency when it’s about “what we can learn.” LINKS “How Your Hiring Strategies Change” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com “The Problem of Standards” by David Maister…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair borrows a concept from finance and fitness to help creative agencies find the balance between low risk and high risk pricing strategies.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair interviews David about his new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer . LINKS Buy a copy of David's new book from him directly. Buy David's new book and audiobook on Amazon.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair interviews David on his recent article about the idea that expertise does involve supplying answers, eventually, but mainly expertise is about asking the right questions, first, and then offering a few answers after the truth surfaces. Links “Expertise Is Mainly About Asking Great Questions” by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair shares how to determine whether or not we are the advantaged player the “polite battle for control” within the game of sales, and how we can get the odds of winning the sale to be more in our favor. Links “Assume an Advantaged Player” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

1 The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise 30:34
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David interviews Blair about his new book , which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values. Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David unpacks six principles that can help creative firms benefit from delivering strategic guidance through their account managers. LINKS "Account Managers and Strategy" by David C. Baker at punctuation.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees four common behaviors when business owners are looking to get deals moving in times of economic decline, stagnation, or uncertainty that end up doing long term harm to their positioning and pricing. LINKS "Four Ways to Commodify Your Offering" by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com "Phase Your Client Engagements" 2Bobs episode…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Every few years we’re told that we need to move on from using email newsletters as a part of our marketing platform. And David says that advice has always been wrong. Links David’s article on Punctuation.com (subscribe to his newsletter at the bottom of the page) “Email is the Most Consistent, Reliable Marketing Channel on the Web and I Can Prove It” by Rand Fishkin…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David provides some clear examples of what is required for a firm to be successful at offering one service for many different verticals. Links “Strengthening a Weak Horizontal Positioning” by David C. Baker on punctuation.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong. LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.com…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David shares his decision-making framework that will help agency principals make better decisions during chaotic times like these. LINKS “Leading in a Chaotic World” article by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Pricing is a prison cell of our own making. And it’s cultural. Blair has come up with a series of prompts as a creative exercise to help us all move into a realm of higher pricing. Links “Creating a Culture of Premium Pricing” by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com “Have we Hit Peak Strategy?” “Be the Client You Want to See in the World”…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David wants agency principals to develop new business plans which delivers more new leads with less labor so their organizations can have more controllable growth, as well as increasing their likelihood for a successful exit when that time comes. Links 2Bobs episode: “The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation” NY Times article: “How a Self-Published Book Broke ‘All the Rules’ and Became a Best Seller”…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair thinks too many design firms and other service providers are trying too hard to raise prices by presenting themselves as more “strategic.” Both he and David see these agencies losing more and more work to competitors moving to off-shore teams and AI centered services. Links Blair’s “What Is Strategy?” episode of the Ditching Hourly podcast with Jonathan Stark…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David definitely doesn’t want anyone to be like tech bros, but he has recognized a few things creative agencies might be able to learn from them.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

1 Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team 30:29
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Blair has five steps creative agency leaders can take to turn their account managers, project managers, developers, engineers, and advisors into a source of instant scale to their sales efforts. LINKS “ Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team ” article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Whether you call yourself an advisor or consultant (or not), David has seven core ethical principles that should govern advisory work. LINKS "Advising Clients Ethically" article on Punctuation.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

The fact that sales people tend to talk too much is nothing new, but Blair has observed in recent client work just how profound of an effect this pervasive problem has on sales outcomes. Links “How and When to Talk About Your Firm” “Replacing Presentations With Conversations”
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

When it comes to qualifications for ideal clients, David doesn’t hear anyone talking about how agencies can benefit when the person across the table is someone who presses boundaries and ethically skirts the rules within their own organization.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

As Blair is finishing his new book that drops later this year, he comes to the realization that pretty much everything he does comes down to the fundamental issue that experts think they need to show up as a different person during the sale: pitching, persuading, and convincing instead of as the leader their prospective clients need them to be. LINKS "The Dichotomy of the Expert Salesperson" article by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com "Ditch the (Sales) Script"…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

While discussing eight ways creative firms can do pro bono work better based on an article David wrote recently, both he and Blair discover a couple new profound insights together. LINKS “Maximizing Your Pro-Bono Contributions” by David C. Baker at Punctuation.com Left-handed Mango Chutney
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair recognizes how a Confucius quote is really bad business advice, but is still moved by how a highly principled creative firm in New Zealand continues to thrive by prioritizing their creative practices and client fit over new business strategy. LINKS "Attending the Way" article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com AltGroup.net…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David frequently gets hired to help resolve issues at firms between multiple principles when it comes to who does what and how much each should get paid, so he’s come up with a 7-point framework he can use in each unique scenario.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he takes a lesson from investing with compound interest to understand the increasing returns we can receive from our relentless pursuit of knowledge over time. Links “The Time Value of Knowledge” article on WinWithoutPitching.com
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David looks at the current data and weighs all the pros and cons of continuing to have staff who work from home in our post-pandemic economy, which makes Blair wonder if he would even survive if he was starting out in his profession today. Links “The Pros/Cons of Remote Work”
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees too many creative firms talking at prospective clients using sales scripts instead of having a series of wide ranging conversations on their unique issues and objectives that set the tone for the potential long-term engagement. Links “Ten Set Pieces” “Mastering the Value Conversation”
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair’s latest obsession is bounded rationality, in which he sees too many creative firms failing to make “rational” decisions because they choose to bind their businesses with outdated and overly-constraining ideals like the 80/20 principle. Links “The Great Convergence is Upon Us” by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching Award-winning “Unapologetically Human” ad campaign by Kruger and BHLA Productize: The Ultimate Guide to Turning Professional Services to Scalable Products by Eisha Tierney Armstrong…
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David shares his thoughts on some bad advice he hears involving the focus on pursuing personal passions in business.
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2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair weighs in on this year's Forrester report, which shows the ridiculous amount of money agencies have been wasting on pitches. LINKS "Are These the Last Days of the Pitch?" by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching "A New Forrester Report Urges Brands and Agencies to 'Ditch the Pitch'" by Olivia Morley for AdWeek published on 4 A's…
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